Land Border Opening?

[ilovetotravel1977]

@pigletto very well said!

 

[HappilyEverAfter80]

I think biggest problem is that we’ve become completely polarized on these issues and it’s taking away from decent conversation and adding to frustration for everyone.
Lately it feels like you can only be lumped into two groups .. Group A ) socially responsible , science believing , rule following Canadian do gooders , or Group B ) rogue covid deniers , ruining for it for the masses , non mask wearing ,lockdown rally attending , science denying morons .

And there are a lot of people who fall squarely in those two groups . But the problem here is the rest of us are on a spectrum and we are being pushed into one position or another without much thought for our point of view.

It IS possible to be a good citizen and still question the decisions of our leaders and experts. In fact I would argue that healthy discourse and questioning the status quo is what makes us better Canadians. I grew up in a very academic family with a mother who is a brilliant healthcare practitioner and diagnostician , a brother who went to med school , a neurosurgeon in the USA for a brother in law , a sister in law who has been pulled into our ICU to work with Covid patients. I KNOW it’s real , I know we need these public health measures in place but I still question some of the measures and the unintended but very real effects that they are having on our society as a whole .

I worry that the “Keep Eveything Locked Down !” mantra works largely for the privileged middle classes who can AFFORD to keep locked down . Social support payments can’t go on forever . Hardworking Canadians with children and families to support are sinking lower and lower below that poverty line and will not be able to come back .

So do we do this forever ? Every variant , every wave , every new discovery pushes us back inside , relying support to put food on the table ? I can most definitely see the concerns with taking those choices away from people who just want to work again , support themselves and make choices in their own lives . I get the frustration .

I have followed every rule to the letter and I want to fight this pandemic as much as anyone but there will come a time that even I just can’t do this anymore . A time when I will no longer support taking away people’s livelihoods and autonomy . Do I know what the answer is ? Absolutely not . But I truly do not believe locking people in their homes will be the answer much longer .

I did a bad job being a decent person last night @Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina and I made a joke and tried to stay out of the fray but I feel badly about it. I’m sorry . I don’t agree with a lot of your views lately but I DO know you to be a kind person who just lost your mom and I can’t imagine your frustrations with not being able to be in your home country right now . I’m really sorry and promise to do better.

I know all of you to be kind a decent people and I would sure love to go back to talking about trips . I truly hope I haven’t offended anyone . Just wanted to say some stuff that’s been on my mind for awhile.

YES! To all of what you said

 

[samsteele]

Must watch CTV interview with Sir John Bell. Cdn born pioneer of AZ. For anyone who has had their 1st AZ shot and trying to decide what to do for the 2nd, good info to have. I'm going to get my 2nd AZ shot as soon as I can get it. I had the idea that I might be able to up my odds - esp in light of an expected 3rd booster - by mixing with Pfizer or Moderna. This put that idea out of my mind. This week I'll be calling my local Shoppers where I got my AZ shot a few weeks ago and checking online to see when I can get my 2nd AZ shot. Here's the link. If it cycles, google ctv news Sir John Bell. Interviewed by Evan Solomon and dated today - May 16.

 

[ottawamom]

The variant originally from India scares the bejeebers out of me as do any other new variants which may have the opportunity to develop. I sincerely hope all the vaccines we have to date will be able to keep up with the variants, otherwise we could all be back to stage 1 again.

Eye opening video @samsteele. Thanks for posting it. I think I know what direction I'm heading now for dose #2.

 

[von Monster]

@samsteele - thanks for posting that! Very informative, and it was nice to see actual facts presented as opposed to the typical clickbait on vaccines the news tends to present. I found that despite the Canadian news presenting the 'mixed vaccine approach' as a great option this week that the lead researcher in the very study the were referring to is opposed to it extremely interesting.

Also PBS News Hour just did a nice piece on what a border reopening might look like, and reasons why it needs to happen. Thought I'd share it as I found it very well done.

Vaccinations are picking up. Is it time to reopen the US-Canada border? | PBS NewsHour Weekend

 

[TammyLynn33]

@samsteele - thanks for posting that! Very informative, and it was nice to see actual facts presented as opposed to the typical clickbait on vaccines the news tends to present. I found that despite the Canadian news presenting the 'mixed vaccine approach' as a great option this week that the lead researcher in the very study the were referring to is opposed to it extremely interesting.

Also PBS News Hour just did a nice piece on what a border reopening might look like, and reasons why it needs to happen. Thought I'd share it as I found it very well done.

Vaccinations are picking up. Is it time to reopen the US-Canada border? | PBS NewsHour Weekend

interesting . I just watched it and to me it illustrated the biggest problem with the pandemic . Me me me..
The woman who was living with her family in Canada I can’t I can’t I can’t
The biz owner in Windsor my biz my biz my biz
The mayor of N Falls our town our town ..
Where’s the family who can’t see their own loved ones in the same city but in long term care ?
Where’s the businesses that aren’t still operating not like Windsor’s machining company ? A 30% loss is nothing compared to biz that have totally shut down for good .
Where’s the mayor of Brampton and other hard hit cities ? You think he wants birders open right now ?
Everyone is struggling but everyone is worried about themselves instead of looking at the big picture ..

 

[pigletto]

interesting . I just watched it and to me it illustrated the biggest problem with the pandemic . Me me me..
The woman who was living with her family in Canada I can’t I can’t I can’t
The biz owner in Windsor my biz my biz my biz
The mayor of N Falls our town our town ..
Where’s the family who can’t see their own loved ones in the same city but in long term care ?
Where’s the businesses that aren’t still operating not like Windsor’s machining company ? A 30% loss is nothing compared to biz that have totally shut down for good .
Where’s the mayor of Brampton and other hard hit cities ? You think he wants birders open right now ?
Everyone is struggling but everyone is worried about themselves instead of looking at the big picture ..

In fairness the mayor of Niagara Falls he represents tens of thousands of people in seasonal tourism employment and our area has been decimated . We had the highest unemployment in the province pre pandemic , it’s going to be a blood bath now . I read this weekend in the Globe and Mail that for this year Niagara sunk further than anywhere in Canada for affordability with our housing market. So we now have the added issues of people not having the jobs to afford their unaffordable homes , taxes and bills .
My husband posted a personal assistant position to cover a mat leave and got 126 applicants , most of whom were service industry and or overqualified .
So I’m not a fan of the Niagara mayor for many reasons but he is looking at a bigger picture . Our homeless population is exploding too . These are those unintended consequences we are going to feel for years to come that I’m not sure we fully grasp on a message board for leisure vacationing .

 

[wdwmom3]

interesting . I just watched it and to me it illustrated the biggest problem with the pandemic . Me me me..
The woman who was living with her family in Canada I can’t I can’t I can’t
The biz owner in Windsor my biz my biz my biz
The mayor of N Falls our town our town ..
Where’s the family who can’t see their own loved ones in the same city but in long term care ?
Where’s the businesses that aren’t still operating not like Windsor’s machining company ? A 30% loss is nothing compared to biz that have totally shut down for good .
Where’s the mayor of Brampton and other hard hit cities ? You think he wants birders open right now ?
Everyone is struggling but everyone is worried about themselves instead of looking at the big picture ..

Very well said.

 

[von Monster]

interesting . I just watched it and to me it illustrated the biggest problem with the pandemic . Me me me..
The woman who was living with her family in Canada I can’t I can’t I can’t
The biz owner in Windsor my biz my biz my biz
The mayor of N Falls our town our town ..
Where’s the family who can’t see their own loved ones in the same city but in long term care ?
Where’s the businesses that aren’t still operating not like Windsor’s machining company ? A 30% loss is nothing compared to biz that have totally shut down for good .
Where’s the mayor of Brampton and other hard hit cities ? You think he wants birders open right now ?
Everyone is struggling but everyone is worried about themselves instead of looking at the big picture ..

Interestingly enough you took that video the complete opposite of the way I did -

The woman who was living with her family in Canada I can’t I can’t I can’t

It's literally a block from here house. If you don't see why she'd be getting upset after, what, 14 months you lack empathy.

The biz owner in Windsor my biz my biz my biz

Where’s the businesses that aren’t still operating not like Windsor’s machining company ? A 30% loss is nothing compared to biz that have totally shut down for good .

I'm assuming he'd like to not follow them? Add in a 30% loss of business usually equals layoffs from what would be a highly skilled and paying job so I'm also guessing his employees would also not like to? I don't think allowing what may be a few dozen *fully vaccinated* inspectors across in addition to the literally *10s of thousands* of truck drivers/government employees/cross border workers every month who don't have to be either vaccinated or quarantine at all is a huge ask.

The mayor of N Falls our town our town ..

I'm guessing seeing a man who has to watch thousands of his constituents go bankrupt and businesses close doesn't elicit sympathy from you?

Where’s the family who can’t see their own loved ones in the same city but in long term care ?

?. I don't have any family in LTC, but I do have a co-worker who does and he goes in every week to check on them as a caregiver. This is Ontario mind you but I would have thought that was similar everywhere? But if that's the case for you that's horrible and you have my sympathy.

Where’s the mayor of Brampton and other hard hit cities ? You think he wants birders open right now ?

Patrick Brown is likely the most level headed and 'in-front' politician we have in Canada. It's a real shame he was forced out of provincial politics as everyone I know from there loves the guy. He even has an article about him in The Globe and Mail about how well he's done. I full expect if asked he would agree with having a plan on how the border is going to open - Brampton is full of small manufactures like the 'biz owner in Windsor'

Everyone is struggling but everyone is worried about themselves instead of looking at the big picture ..

A phased re-opening of the border is part of the big picture. Isn't it? I think everyone in the video talked about making a plan, deciding what needs to happen, and doing it as safely as possible. American caseloads are far smaller than ours, they're our biggest trading partner, best international ally, defence partner, and the closest think you could consider to being a 'big-brother' to our country. Planning on normalizing relations should be something being done, sooner rather than later. I don't think anyone said immediately.

 

[TammyLynn33]

Interestingly enough you took that video the complete opposite of the way I did -



It's literally a block from here house. If you don't see why she'd be getting upset after, what, 14 months you lack empathy.




I'm assuming he'd like to not follow them? Add in a 30% loss of business usually equals layoffs from what would be a highly skilled and paying job so I'm also guessing his employees would also not like to? I don't think allowing what may be a few dozen *fully vaccinated* inspectors across in addition to the literally *10s of thousands* of truck drivers/government employees/cross border workers every month who don't have to be either vaccinated or quarantine at all is a huge ask.



I'm guessing seeing a man who has to watch thousands of his constituents go bankrupt and businesses close doesn't elicit sympathy from you?



?. I don't have any family in LTC, but I do have a co-worker who does and he goes in every week to check on them as a caregiver. This is Ontario mind you but I would have thought that was similar everywhere? But if that's the case for you that's horrible and you have my sympathy.



Patrick Brown is likely the most level headed and 'in-front' politician we have in Canada. It's a real shame he was forced out of provincial politics as everyone I know from there loves the guy. He even has an article about him in The Globe and Mail about how well he's done. I full expect if asked he would agree with having a plan on how the border is going to open - Brampton is full of small manufactures like the 'biz owner in Windsor'



A phased re-opening of the border is part of the big picture. Isn't it? I think everyone in the video talked about making a plan, deciding what needs to happen, and doing it as safely as possible. American caseloads are far smaller than ours, they're our biggest trading partner, best international ally, defence partner, and the closest think you could consider to being a 'big-brother' to our country. Planning on normalizing relations should be something being done, sooner rather than later. I don't think anyone said immediately.

I have sympathy for everybody. This sucks for all of us in our own unique ways . We are all suffering and making sacrifices and some of them are ultimate sacrifices.

 

[Pumpkin1172]

Our government needs to step up and come up with a plan...PERIOD. They have not set bench markers, how to jump start and open our economies again...NOTHING of value has come from anyone's lips. They have failed miserably at every turn during this whole pandemic. They have proved that they don't have a plan. ZERO plans/benchmarks, steps about how to reopen. It's been CRICKETS!!!! Nothing but silence even when asked in parliament from opposing members about their reopening strategies. Heck, we can't reopen a boarder when our economies are not even open yet.

When the boarder start to reopen...that's when we will be able to reopen our provinces again. They are relying on vaccinations and lockdowns to keep the numbers of infections down. That's their plan. They have given us any other information other than that!!!!

I believe that with the CDC announcement, this will put a HUGE amount of pressure on the government to come up with a plan. There is no more of the wait and see approach.

We all are soooooooooooooooooooooo tired. We are just doing what we can to get through this with some scrap of our mental capacity intact.

 

[Mikey15]

Our government needs to step up and come up with a plan...PERIOD. They have not set bench markers, how to jump start and open our economies again...NOTHING of value has come from anyone's lips. They have failed miserably at every turn during this whole pandemic. They have proved that they don't have a plan. ZERO plans/benchmarks, steps about how to reopen. It's been CRICKETS!!!! Nothing but silence even when asked in parliament from opposing members about their reopening strategies. Heck, we can't reopen a boarder when our economies are not even open yet.

When the boarder start to reopen...that's when we will be able to reopen our provinces again. They are relying on vaccinations and lockdowns to keep the numbers of infections down. That's their plan. They have given us any other information other than that!!!!

I believe that with the CDC announcement, this will put a HUGE amount of pressure on the government to come up with a plan. There is no more of the wait and see approach.

We all are soooooooooooooooooooooo tired. We are just doing what we can to get through this with some scrap of our mental capacity intact.

It's all close to happening. It's already been in the news that cross-border talks are happening now. But we don't need an arbitrary benchmark ahead of that, especially since it's likely to end up being a negotiated timing.

The closure has been extended 30 days at a time, hitting 420 days as of May 21st (current expiry). I'm thinking we're going to see another 30 days extension announced imminently (maybe with fully-vaccinated exceptions) and then by the time that expires June 20th, there won't be a need to extend the closure again. By June 20th every Canadian who wants a shot will have had access to at least their 1st one, and a good chunk will have had their 2nd.

 

[ellbell]

It's all close to happening. It's already been in the news that cross-border talks are happening now. But we don't need an arbitrary benchmark ahead of that, especially since it's likely to end up being a negotiated timing.

The closure has been extended 30 days at a time, hitting 420 days as of May 21st (current expiry). I'm thinking we're going to see another 30 days extension announced imminently (maybe with fully-vaccinated exceptions) and then by the time that expires June 20th, there won't be a need to extend the closure again. By June 20th every Canadian who wants a shot will have had access to at least their 1st one, and a good chunk will have had their 2nd.

I'm ok with an extension as long as something changes. Give us a date or a plan or allow a certain group through. I don't care what the change is as long as there is progress that corresponds with the progress being made through vaccinations.

 

[ilovetotravel1977]

.... By June 20th every Canadian who wants a shot will have had access to at least their 1st one, and a good chunk will have had their 2nd.

I don't think that is accurate.

 

[Mikey15]

I don't think that is accurate.

We're capable of hitting 75/20 (20% of eligible population fully vaccinated) by the first day of Summer. It depends on where the 1st doses stop, and how quickly provinces switch gears to booking people for their 2nds.

If we do hit 1-in-5 I'd consider that "a good chunk" though I recognize people see things differently.

 

[TammyLynn33]

Maybe it’s just me ( and my kids are dual and haven’t seen family including my boys dad since sept so I clearly have more than just vacations at stake here ) but I would like to see everything else open first and know there is a solid safe plan for the kids to re-enter schools in September than simply opening the borders.

 

[wdwmom3]

Maybe it’s just me ( and my kids are dual and haven’t seen family including my boys dad since sept so I clearly have more than just vacations at stake here ) but I would like to see everything else open first and know there is a solid safe plan for the kids to re-enter schools in September than simply opening the borders.

Agreed. We need to worry about opening things at home before we open up borders. Anyone who is a citizen can enter the country, they just need to quarantine. So as of now it’s really only tourists that we aren’t allowing in.

And what’s worse. Them announcing a “plan” or a date and then that doesn’t happen if things don’t improve. Or them waiting to make decisions until the situation is a little clearer.

 

[pigletto]

Agreed. We need to worry about opening things at home before we open up borders. Anyone who is a citizen can enter the country, they just need to quarantine. So as of now it’s really only tourists that we aren’t allowing in.

And what’s worse. Them announcing a “plan” or a date and then that doesn’t happen if things don’t improve. Or them waiting to make decisions until the situation is a little clearer.

My husband works in municipal government and we debate this point all the time . I can see both sides . I don’t think you give dates and absolutes because it ruins your credibility when not achieved . I also strongly believe these are our elected representatives and “when I say so “ should be reserved for parents of toddlers . I, and every other tax paying , law abiding citizen deserve to know the benchmarks that need to be reached in order move forward . Why the secrecy? I’m not asking for it to be opened NOW, I’m asking to know what the plan is . I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

 

[pigletto]

Maybe it’s just me ( and my kids are dual and haven’t seen family including my boys dad since sept so I clearly have more than just vacations at stake here ) but I would like to see everything else open first and know there is a solid safe plan for the kids to re-enter schools in September than simply opening the borders.

Why does one preclude the other ? We are in the land border opening thread so people are discussing the reopening of the land border . I think we would all like to see our own country safe and our kids go back to school safely . I don’t get why we can’t discuss both .

 

[von Monster]

My husband works in municipal government and we debate this point all the time . I can see both sides . I don’t think you give dates and absolutes because it ruins your credibility when not achieved . I also strongly believe these are our elected representatives and “when I say so “ should be reserved for parents of toddlers . I, and every other tax paying , law abiding citizen deserve to know the benchmarks that need to be reached in order move forward . Why the secrecy? I’m not asking for it to be opened NOW, I’m asking to know what the plan is . I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

Why does one preclude the other ? We are in the land border opening thread so people are discussing the reopening of the land border . I think we would all like to see our own country safe and our kids go back to school safely . I don’t get why we can’t discuss both .

Agree on both points. I see no reason in a liberal democracy that the government's cannot provide a staged plan with whatever internal benchmarks they're using to decide. It honestly not that hard. If it's vaccine passports, cool just say so. 75% vaccinated? Ok - say so.

I also have zero idea why people come to a travel board, focused on destinations in the USA, open the border opening thread and post 'never'. Or at least something close to that.