Just back, DAS return time

[piccolopat]

Everybody claims that, but nobody actually says how. Seriously, how is it any different than going to the kiosks that Disneyland uses?

OK here's how I see it. John and Joe both want to ride SM and neither has a FP+. John has a DAS while Joe does not. They are both standing in front of Pirates. In order for Joe to ride SM standby, he has to walk to the ride where he finds that there is a 30 minute standby wait. John wants to get a DAS pass for SM. Using the app (if it were available) means he could get a DAS time of 30-10=20 minutes without having to walk clear across the park. Now he has time to stop and ride HM, eat a meal or do something else on the way. His advantage over Joe is that he got his place in line without actually going to the ride and by the time Joe actually walks there the standby line is now 60 minutes. John can ride 40 minutes before Joe and Joe hasn't been able to do anything else while he waited on line.

<Edited to fix math>

 

[cmwade77]

OK here's how I see it. John and Joe both want to ride SM and neither has a FP+. John has a DAS while Joe does not. They are both standing in front of Pirates. In order for Joe to ride SM standby, he has to walk to the ride where he finds that there is a 30 minute standby wait. John wants to get a DAS pass for SM. Using the app (if it were available) means he could get a DAS time of 30+10=40 minutes without having to walk clear across the park. Now he has time to stop and ride HM, eat a meal or do something else on the way. His advantage over Joe is that he got his place in line without actually going to the ride and by the time Joe actually walks there the standby line is now 60 minutes. John can ride 20 minutes before Joe and Joe hasn't been able to do anything else while he waited on line.

Here is what you are not looking at though, under the current system (as implemented at Disney World), John must walk all the way to SM to get a return time, his issue hits and it requires him to go all the way way back to first aid and then back to SM. Joe does not have this issue and therefore would not need to do the extra walking. See the difference?

Now, what you describe is essentially how it currently works at DL, but instead of using the app you go to one of the kiosk, but no one is saying that gives an unfair advantage. So can you please explain what the difference between the kiosk (by the way if you are at DCA, you can get a return time for an attraction at DL and vice versa) and being able to book through the app? And why booking through the app would be any advantage over the kiosk system, again aside from not having to take a CMs time?

By the way, it is the standby time, minus 10 minutes, not plus ten minutes to try to account for time spent waiting when you return. You usually spend a little more than that when you return though.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Here is what you are not looking at though, under the current system (as implemented at Disney World), John must walk all the way to SM to get a return time, his issue hits and it requires him to go all the way way back to first aid and then back to SM. Joe does not have this issue and therefore would not need to do the extra walking. See the difference?

Now, what you describe is essentially how it currently works at DL, but instead of using the app you go to one of the kiosk, but no one is saying that gives an unfair advantage. So can you please explain what the difference between the kiosk (by the way if you are at DCA, you can get a return time for an attraction at DL and vice versa) and being able to book through the app? And why booking through the app would be any advantage over the kiosk system, again aside from not having to take a CMs time?

By the way, it is the standby time, minus 10 minutes, not plus ten minutes to try to account for time spent waiting when you return. You usually spend a little more than that when you return though.

And what you’re missing is that in most cases, John doesn’t have to go back to First Aid to take care of his disability issues, he goes off to use a FP or grab a snack or use the restroom.

 

[Lilsia]

Here is what you are not looking at though, under the current system (as implemented at Disney World), John must walk all the way to SM to get a return time, his issue hits and it requires him to go all the way way back to first aid and then back to SM. Joe does not have this issue and therefore would not need to do the extra walking. See the difference?

What you are talking about here is an extreme, rare condition. How many people will need to utilize first aid in between every single ride? We are talking about a very small percentage of people that use DAS that have these kind of extreme circumstances. Changing things that work for the majority to accommodate the very small minority is really not something most places would do. The system works now for most. Again, if it does not work for you then please go speak to guest relations.

 

[cmwade77]

And what you’re missing is that in most cases, John doesn’t have to go back to First Aid to take care of his disability issues, he goes off to use a FP or grab a snack or use the restroom.

That's what you believe to be the case, you don't know what John has to do or doesn't have to do, that is why giving the options are so important, because one solution doesnt work for everyone.

But even he does, so what? That is how the system is designed and no one has yet to answer how getting the return time from the app is different than the kiosks. Just one uses tech and the other doesn't.

 

[OurBigTrip]

That's what you believe to be the case, you don't know what John has to do or doesn't have to do, that is why giving the options are so important, because one solution doesnt work for everyone.

But even he does, so what? That is how the system is designed and no one has yet to answer how getting the return time from the app is different than the kiosks. Just one uses tech and the other doesn't.

Because John shouldn’t have any more advantages than the DAS already provides, IMO.

If you believe that use of the wait time for medical needs is prevalent, then disallowing use of FP during the wait shouldn’t be an issue, correct?

 

[cmwade77]

Because John shouldn’t have any more advantages than the DAS already provides, IMO.

If you believe that use of the wait time for medical needs is prevalent, then disallowing use of FP during the wait shouldn’t be an issue, correct?

Yes, it should actually, because they still wait longer than anyone else and even Disney agrees with that point, which is why they allow FP to be used with the DAS.

Again, booking through the app provides no more advantage than a kiosk, aside from saving Disney some money and no one has given an example that actually contradicts this.

Ultimately though it isn't what you or I believe to be right, but what Disney believes is right and as budgets get cut during the next economic downturn, which will happen at some point, Disney will probably move to letting people get return times through the app as it saves them money.

 

[gap2368]

That's what you believe to be the case, you don't know what John has to do or doesn't have to do, that is why giving the options are so important, because one solution doesnt work for everyone.

But even he does, so what? That is how the system is designed and no one has yet to answer how getting the return time from the app is different than the kiosks. Just one uses tech and the other doesn't.

ok so two people are at space and they both want to ride BTMRR which has a 30 minute wait, one has a DAS and one does not in your way the one with the DAS just get on their phone and get a return time while the other person has to walk now the parade is going on making the walk a little harder and slower to get there by the time the none DAS holder gets to BTMRR the wait has jumped to 60 minutes.

You keep on using the extra walking but you are saving walking by going in the FP line and not having to go in the standby line where there are a lot of switches back.

then there is the well what if someone has to go to first aid ( and I am someone that does have to go to first aid at unpredictable times) but this can happen to any number of guest where they have to walk out of their way for a number of reason like a parent with a small child that has to change their child clothes or the guest that rides a ride that makes them sick, or someone that gets a blister and needs a bandaid or someone that or someone that breaks their sunglass and has to go find a new pair you see there is just a number of reasons why someone might have to walk out of their way

if someone ( you) is concerned because of the extra walking then using a mobility device is problem the better way to go then giving someone an extra advantage then other guest.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Yes, it should actually, because they still wait longer than anyone else and even Disney agrees with that point, which is why they allow FP to be used with the DAS.

Again, booking through the app provides no more advantage than a kiosk, aside from saving Disney some money and no one has given an example that actually contradicts this.

Then at least be intellectually honest, and admit that you aren’t really interested in cutting down on extra walking or ensuring the ability for DAS users to tend to their medical needs, but rather you are just interested in providing DAS users an even greater advantage than they already enjoy.

 

[OurBigTrip]

ok so two people are at space and they both want to ride BTMRR which has a 30 minute wait, one has a DAS and one does not in your way the one with the DAS just get on their phone and get a return time while the other person has to walk now the parade is going on making the walk a little harder and slower to get there by the time the none DAS holder gets to BTMRR the wait has jumped to 60 minutes.

You keep on using the extra walking but you are saving walking by going in the FP line and not having to go in the standby line where there are a lot of switches back.

then there is the well what if someone has to go to first aid ( and I am someone that does have to go to first aid at unpredictable times) but this can happen to any number of guest where they have to walk out of their way for a number of reason like a parent with a small child that has to change their child clothes or the guest that rides a ride that makes them sick, or someone that gets a blister and needs a bandaid or someone that or someone that breaks their sunglass and has to go find a new pair you see there is just a number of reasons why someone might have to walk out of their way

if someone ( you) is concerned because of the extra walking then using a mobility device is problem the better way to go then giving someone an extra advantage then other guest.

Exactly.

 

[gap2368]

Then at least be intellectually honest, and admit that you aren’t really interested in cutting down on extra walking or ensuring the ability for DAS users to tend to their medical needs, but rather you are just interested in providing DAS users an even greater advantage than they already enjoy.

I think this is 100% right

 

[cmwade77]

Then at least be intellectually honest, and admit that you aren’t really interested in cutting down on extra walking or ensuring the ability for DAS users to tend to their medical needs, but rather you are just interested in providing DAS users an even greater advantage than they already enjoy.

Not in the least, at Disney World it would avoid a ton of extra walking, at Disneyland, not that much, so not essential. The alternative is kiosks at Disney World like Disneyland has.

 

[cmwade77]

ok so two people are at space and they both want to ride BTMRR which has a 30 minute wait, one has a DAS and one does not in your way the one with the DAS just get on their phone and get a return time while the other person has to walk now the parade is going on making the walk a little harder and slower to get there by the time the none DAS holder gets to BTMRR the wait has jumped to 60 minutes.

You keep on using the extra walking but you are saving walking by going in the FP line and not having to go in the standby line where there are a lot of switches back.

then there is the well what if someone has to go to first aid ( and I am someone that does have to go to first aid at unpredictable times) but this can happen to any number of guest where they have to walk out of their way for a number of reason like a parent with a small child that has to change their child clothes or the guest that rides a ride that makes them sick, or someone that gets a blister and needs a bandaid or someone that or someone that breaks their sunglass and has to go find a new pair you see there is just a number of reasons why someone might have to walk out of their way

if someone ( you) is concerned because of the extra walking then using a mobility device is problem the better way to go then giving someone an extra advantage then other guest.

A mobility device would still have extra traveling to do, this is either physical exertion for a manual chair or battery drain for an ECV.

But alas, I can see where people truly stand in the realms of being fair to those with disabilities, obviously this is the wrong board for people who want to see true fair ess in the system.

 

[gap2368]

Not in the least, at Disney World it would avoid a ton of extra walking, at Disneyland, not that much, so not essential. The alternative is kiosks at Disney World like Disneyland has.

the DAS is not for mobility problems a mobility device is for this. and if there is that much walking then letting someone get a retrun time across the park would give then a big advantage over someone that has to walk to the ride.

 

[gap2368]

A mobility device would still have extra traveling to do, this is either physical exertion for a manual chair or battery drain for an ECV.

But alas, I can see where people truly stand in the realms of being fair to those with disabilities, obviously this is the wrong board for people who want to see true fair ess in the system.

I do not know any guest that could go 12+ hours walking around the park without a break so if a person needed to charge their chair they would take a break and charge their chair

You just want to have extra above every other guest get which is not what the DAS is for.

 

[OurBigTrip]

A mobility device would still have extra traveling to do, this is either physical exertion for a manual chair or battery drain for an ECV.

But alas, I can see where people truly stand in the realms of being fair to those with disabilities, obviously this is the wrong board for people who want to see true fair ess in the system.

If you wanted true fairness, you wouldn’t oppose disallowing FP use during the wait time for DAS.

 

[cmwade77]

the DAS is not for mobility problems a mobility device is for this. and if there is that much walking then letting someone get a retrun time across the park would give then a big advantage over someone that has to walk to the ride.

I have also given examples of non mobility issues that this would address, but you continue to ignore those as well, because you don't like that fact.

But let's take the Space Mountain example, the person with the DAS currently has to go to the attraction (at Disney World) to get a return time, the stands line is 30 minutes, there are 3 people in front of him to get a return time, which means he has to wait about 20 minutes before he has his return time since it takes about 5 minutes per person to issue the return times, that is 5 for each of the 3 and 5 for him and he is in a wheelchair, so a mobility device is involved, which means the return time is required since the standby queue is not accessible. So he has already waited 20 minutes, his return time is 20 minutes after he has already waited 20 minutes, so he already will have waited 40 minutes. Now add to that the 20 minutes he will have to wait upon returning to Space Mountain (oh and Big Thunder is the same deal because of how wheelchairs load) and he will have waited 60 minutes for a 30 minute wait.

But even if you took out that first 20 minutes by allowing him to get the FP at a kiosk or on the app, he still is waiting 40 minutes compared to the 30 minutes that the guest who got in the standby waited.

It makes it slightly more equitable, but still doesn't bring it down to the same wait times.

So, no being able to get the return time from the app doesn't give a huge advantage over the person in the standby line.

 

[cmwade77]

If you wanted true fairness, you wouldn’t oppose disallowing FP use during the wait time for DAS.

Yes I would, for precisely the reason I outlined in my previous post.

 

[Erin1213]

Question: Why is everyone here so concerned over people who use DAS think that person is getting an "Advantage". I see more able-bodies over the years circumvent Disney's loop holes that took a long time for Disney to close. Example Rider Switch. Parents went around collecting cards and their kids got to ride multiple times in a row. Back when the had paper fast passes. The machines didn't know the difference between valid ticket media and expired ticket media. We saw one family with a stack of paper fastpasses rided the same ride 10 times while we stood stand-by. It's very rare now with DAS that a person can ride mutiple times. The most one can hope for is twice on the same ride by using a DAS and FPP. Another person might be able to do the same thing by using the grab tap and modify FPP.

 

[lanejudy]

Folks, we're going in circles here. Let's try to have some new discussion points.