If global warming could be stopped and earth saved by ending the use of all forms of electricity, would you do it?

[sam_gordon]

Yikes that’s scary. Nope can’t ban lightening it fertilizes the plants.

Wait, what? If this is sarcasm, I obviously missed it

 

[Colleen27]

I think there's a big flaw in the initial premise: Pre-electrical home heating methods were actually much dirtier, in terms of both carbon and particulate emissions, than our mixed-source grid. My house was heated with coal. Others used wood, or peat. But the underlying principal is the same across all the low-tech means people have used through most of history to heat homes - burning something that produces a great deal of smoke and heats rather inefficiently in addition to releasing the stored carbon in the fuel source. A return to such methods at current levels of human population would be catastrophic for many reasons, not the least of which is the widespread deforestation and disruption of ecosystems that would inevitably result from having to source such massive quantities of inefficient, primitive fuels.

 

[Colleen27]

If I really cared about my environmental impact I would replace my gas powered lawn mower with an electric one. That is probably the simplest change people can make that has the largest positive environmental impact.

According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), a new gas powered lawn mower produces the same amount of volatile organic compounds and nitrogen oxides emissions air pollution in one hour of operation as 11 new cars each being driven for one hour.

The EPA also estimates that 17 million gallons of fuel is spilled every year refilling lawn mowers. That is more than the Exxon Valdez spill year after year after year after year.

Those small engines are horrible for the environment.

And there are dozens of other things like this, truly low-hanging fruit, that we could address rather than focusing solely on cars. Shifting away from ICE upkeep methods or grass-as-default for household lawns and the millions of miles of mowed medians and shoulders along out roadways would have a massive impact. So would real investments in efficiency, in moving away from cities and roads designed for cars-as-default to the point of being almost hostile/dangerous to biking or walking, in building out efficient mass transit in more places, etc. That's the biggest reason I have a problem with the EV push - not only because the technology isn't quite ready for a large scale shift, a downside that will almost certainly be addressed over time, but mainly because it continues us on a path of a physical world constructed for the premise of a car for everyone and everyone in a car.

 

[Buzz Rules]

I think there's a big flaw in the initial premise: Pre-electrical home heating methods were actually much dirtier, in terms of both carbon and particulate emissions, than our mixed-source grid. My house was heated with coal. Others used wood, or peat. But the underlying principal is the same across all the low-tech means people have used through most of history to heat homes - burning something that produces a great deal of smoke and heats rather inefficiently in addition to releasing the stored carbon in the fuel source. A return to such methods at current levels of human population would be catastrophic for many reasons, not the least of which is the widespread deforestation and disruption of ecosystems that would inevitably result from having to source such massive quantities of inefficient, primitive fuels.

Natural sources like wood have less problems for the ozone than fossil fuels. As far as dirtier methods for renewable energies, modern advanced machines can make the energy in a safe and healthy way for the planet.

 

[MillauFr]

This why the US will break up and they may not be a bad thing.

The United States isn't nearly as divided as people think. The politicians and the media whip people into a frenzy but in reality people think pretty much alike on most major issues.

 

[DCLMP]

The United States isn't nearly as divided as people think. The politicians and the media whip people into a frenzy but in reality people think pretty much alike on most major issues.

No we don't. We are very divided. To think that the US can exist in it's current form and continue to be the number one economy is a pipe dream. What's an even bigger pipe dream is to think that countries around the world are going to unite, join hands and buy into this green madness. It's more likely to lead to another World war. Unless Europe changes course they are in deep dog doo doo and so are we.

 

[DCLMP]

Wait, what? If this is sarcasm, I obviously missed it

Is what Sarcasm? Lightening does fertilize the plants. It adds nitrogen to the soil or something like that. You can google it.

 

[sam_gordon]

Is what Sarcasm? Lightening does fertilize the plants. It adds nitrogen to the soil or something like that. You can google it.

I didn't know that and hadn't heard that before. So I wasn't sure whether you were serious or making a joke.

 

[dvcgirl67]

This why the US will break up and they may not be a bad thing.

It's far more likely that angry people from California and Washington State will move to Texas and Oklahoma where they'll be able to buy ICE cars and gas stations to fill up for a longer period of time. I can't speak to what it's like to drive any EV but a Tesla Y, which is what I have....but of other EVs are half as much fun to drive, and as easy to plug in and maintain....most people will wish they'd gotten an EV sooner. I just don't see EV vs. ICE car as an issue that we "take to the streets" over.

 

[mom2rtk]

It's far more likely that angry people from California and Washington State will move to Texas and Oklahoma where they'll be able to buy ICE cars and gas stations to fill up for a longer period of time. I can't speak to what it's like to drive any EV but a Tesla Y, which is what I have....but of other EVs are half as much fun to drive, and as easy to plug in and maintain....most people will wish they'd gotten an EV sooner. I just don't see EV vs. ICE car as an issue that we "take to the streets" over.

You clearly don’t spend much time among people who can barely afford their gas powered cars. Or people who need to drive very long distances.

I know, I know that will all change. There will be rebates. It doesn’t matter that they will offer rebates (at great public expense). The minute the offer them, the manufacturers raise their prices.

Glad you love your car. If it’s that great then the market should take care of this without bans and publicly funded rebates. People will want them all on their own.

We are effectively heading down new path pulling up the path behind us without having the path in front of us built. Without knowing if we can afford to finish the new path, whether there are enough supplies to build the new path and not caring one bit about the people left behind at the station.

 

[lowlight]

It's far more likely that angry people from California and Washington State will move to Texas and Oklahoma where they'll be able to buy ICE cars and gas stations to fill up for a longer period of time. I can't speak to what it's like to drive any EV but a Tesla Y, which is what I have....but of other EVs are half as much fun to drive, and as easy to plug in and maintain....most people will wish they'd gotten an EV sooner. I just don't see EV vs. ICE car as an issue that we "take to the streets" over.

You do know the overwhelming majority of people in the US can’t afford a Tesla of any model, right? Or to just uproot their families and move to another state? I realize I’m the poorest person on the Dis, but sometimes these comments still catch me off guard.

 

[dvcgirl67]

You do know the overwhelming majority of people in the US can’t afford a Tesla of any model, right? Or to just uproot their families and move to another state? I realize I’m the poorest person on the Dis, but sometimes these comments still catch me off guard.

Of course I know that....and that's why I mentioned "other EVs". Here's a list of ten EVs that are priced below the base model Tesla Model 3.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g40605495/cheapest-electric-cars/

 

[dvcgirl67]

You clearly don’t spend much time among people who can barely afford their gas powered cars. Or people who need to drive very long distances.

I know, I know that will all change. There will be rebates. It doesn’t matter that they will offer rebates (at great public expense). The minute the offer them, the manufacturers raise their prices.

Glad you love your car. If it’s that great then the market should take care of this without bans and publicly funded rebates. People will want them all on their own.

We are effectively heading down new path pulling up the path behind us without having the path in front of us built. Without knowing if we can afford to finish the new path, whether there are enough supplies to build the new path and not caring one bit about the people left behind at the station.

I do spend time with people who are struggling financially....and right above posted a link to ten EVs that are less than Tesla's entry Model 3. But *all* new cars are expensive now. And clearly, as I've said before, EVs won't work for everyone, but they will work for most people I know, at least for one of their vehicles.

And I completely agree that it's time to remove all subsidies for EVs. It's falsely inflating the value of these vehicles. The money instead should be used to build out the infrastructure to support the growing number of EVs that we'll see on our roads.

 

[MillauFr]

You do know the overwhelming majority of people in the US can’t afford a Tesla of any model, right? Or to just uproot their families and move to another state? I realize I’m the poorest person on the Dis, but sometimes these comments still catch me off guard.

The average new car price is approaching $50k. Someone is buying them.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

Of course I know that....and that's why I mentioned "other EVs". Here's a list of ten EVs that are priced below the base model Tesla Model 3.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g40605495/cheapest-electric-cars/

The Bolt gets a price cut for 2023 model year also:

The 2023 Chevy Bolt EUV has received a $6,300 price drop, bringing the price of the battery-electric crossover in the base LT trim level below $30,000.

The 2023 Chevy Bolt EUV in the LT trim will be priced from $28,195, down from last year’s MSRP of $34,495. The Premier trim level, meanwhile, will now be priced from $32,695, down from $38,995.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/06/2023-chevy-bolt-euv-to-get-6300-price-drop/

And that is only talking new. There is obviously a used market as well.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

You clearly don’t spend much time among people who can barely afford their gas powered cars. Or people who need to drive very long distances.

EVs are significantly cheaper per mile than gas powered cars. You need to factor that in when you talk about what people can afford.

 

[MillauFr]

No we don't. We are very divided. To think that the US can exist in it's current form and continue to be the number one economy is a pipe dream. What's an even bigger pipe dream is to think that countries around the world are going to unite, join hands and buy into this green madness. It's more likely to lead to another World war. Unless Europe changes course they are in deep dog doo doo and so are we.

Of course the United States is going to remain the #1 economy in the world. The Chinese economy is contracting this year and they will never be able to attract foreign investment that will be needed to surpass the US.

 

[mom2rtk]

I do spend time with people who are struggling financially....and right above posted a link to ten EVs that are less than Tesla's entry Model 3. But *all* new cars are expensive now. And clearly, as I've said before, EVs won't work for everyone, but they will work for most people I know, at least for one of their vehicles.

And I completely agree that it's time to remove all subsidies for EVs. It's falsely inflating the value of these vehicles. The money instead should be used to build out the infrastructure to support the growing number of EVs that we'll see on our roads.

Yes, all new cars are expensive now. Which is why a lot of people never buy one. They buy much cheaper used cars to get by.

Apparently CA (and nearly a dozen other states saying they plan to follow suit) thinks EVs work for everyone since they plan to ban the sale of gas powered cars after 2035.

 

[mom2rtk]

EVs are significantly cheaper per mile than gas powered cars. You need to factor that in when you talk about what people can afford.

Tons of people don't have the up front investment.

 

[kdonnel]

Yes, all new cars are expensive now. Which is why a lot of people never buy one. They buy much cheaper used cars to get by.

Apparently CA (and nearly a dozen other states saying they plan to follow suit) thinks EVs work for everyone since they plan to ban the sale of gas powered cars after 2035.

CA has set a dead line for the sale of new exclusively gasoline powered cars. NOT set a deadline for the sale of new gas powered cars.