I could use some advice re: school

[carrie6466]

I'm posting here because you guys are always full of good advice! I'm hoping someone can point me to where I should start to resolve a problem.

The situation is this: My dd was in a Sp Ed K room this year, self-contained classroom. Our 'home' school (A) dosn't have one so she was sent to school B. They decided that she could and should go into inclusion for first grade in school B, as school A does not have inclusion. This was all decided at our IEP meeting on May 1st. DH and I signed off on the papers and agreed with everything. We never got our copy of the IEP in the mail.

Yesterday I get a phone call from the school psychologist at the school DD attends telling me it's very important to get in touch with her. Finally was able to get in touch with her today. She informs me that school A is going to do a 'trial' 1st grade inclusion class starting in September and because that is our 'home' school, DD will have to be sent there.

I then asked them what will happen come second grade. I was informed that they have no plan yet for the following year. So inclusion for second grade MAY be in school A if there are enough kids and a need for it. If not, DD would be sent back to school B.

DD is 5, her dx is PDDNOS and ADHD as well as other stuff. She doesn't transition well...truthfully she doesn't transition at all. It's always a difficult situation. I feel like they are trying to make her a guinea pig for their new program and bounce her around like a ping pong ball. And I don't want her moved, as it not only means new kids but also teachers, speech, OT, psychologist, etc.

So...how would you start the ball rolling to get a waiver of some kind to be able to keep her in school B, which is where she is now. Or...do I try to get them to stick to the IEP I already signed stating she was going to be in school B?

Sorry this is so confusing. Just when I thought all was settled it gets to start all over again. By the way the schools are approximately 1.5 miles apart, both in the same school district and the same town, so it's not a hardship for the school district either way as I live at the half way point pretty much.

Thanks for reading through this mess!!

 

[bookwormde]

Call and IEP meeting to discuss the problem. Let then know that bouncing back and forth is not acceptable and is damaging to your child. It actually makes no sense that if they have enough students for an inclusion class for 1st grade that when those student move the 2nd grade that there would not be enough. Quite honestly I would insist on a para, since if she can manage in the inclusion class it is very likely that she could manage in the general education environment with some pull out as long as she has a well trained para.

A change in schools is a change in placement and you need to “sign off” on this change even though it is an improvement in LRE. She will be a “guinea pig” to some extent (my son was one this year with at the mid point some negative impacts, but in the end once the inclusion team started to “listen” it improved significantly). You have every right to review the qualification and experience of the “new staff”.

Now if you can get the commitment to keep her in school A with a para if they do not have a 2nd grade inclusion class, that might be worth the risk since for our children to “flourish” a para is almost a must for generalization of non academic skills and anxiety management as they get older.

bookwormde

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Try what Bookwormde said, but there's only so much you can do. Federal law requires children to be schooled in their home school and there has to be proof that the child's needs cannot be met before they are transferred. Since they will have the classroom, the home school will be conisdered meeting the child's needs.

I forget the exact case, but there has been a similar special ed lawsuit, I believe it involved a service dog. The school already had several accommodations in place and did not want to be responsible for the dog. The court ruled that since there were other accommodations the school did not have to provide a service dog. The quote from the case is that you don't have to have a Cadillac when a Buick will do. That case set a standard in Special Ed.

In your case, the current school is the Cadillac and the home schools is the Buick. It may not be as good as the current school, but it will be seen as a reasonable accommodation.

I do know of one case in the KC area, it wasn't special ed but it might be worth looking into. There is a charter school known as KIPP where students from failing schools can go. After the first year, several of the schools were taken off of the failing list and the students were told that they could no longer attend KIPP since their home schools had improved. The students successfully fought the decision, saying that since they were already enrolled in KIPP they couldn't be forced to go back to their home schools. That case may help.

 

[carrie6466]

I just spent hours on the phone with a previous first grade inclusion teacher from another school in my district, a parent of one of the other children in the current classroom and someone high up the SEPTA ladder who all are advising me on different scenarios.

SEPTA woman basically says too bad, so sad. I asked her why they can't give a definitive answer as to whether there will definitely be inclusion in this school for grades 1 - 5. The first graders are eventually going to advance. That's just logical. She said they have no plans yet, because who may get mainstreamed, who may end up in a different school in the dist, etc. They are going to base it on need from year to year.

They are apparently only allowed to 'bounce' a child one time, if my dd is the only one who needs an inclusion class, since she's already been bounced, she will be the only sp ed student in a gen ed class and it will then be an inclusion class.

My personal opinion is that an ASD kid being being singled out like that is not a good thing.

This is exactly what I was afraid of last year, when we had to make a choice in placement. There are 7 elementary schools in my dist. and only 3 offered Sp K. One was out of the question, because it feeds into different secondary schools. School B feeds to our secondary schools. School A feeds 80 =% to the other secondary school and 20% to mine. So in middle school, she'll be with all new kids AGAIN, from different elem. schools only 20% from her school.

My house is next to a corner. It's the point of a triangle that each side of the triangle is a different elem school in 2 different districts. Basically the people across the street are in another school district. They people on the block behind me are a different elementary school than I am. This is driving me slowly insane.


She started Sp K with a 1:1 and after a 60 day transition she was taken away as not necessary. Again the concensus from everyone I've spoken to is if they move dd, I need to demand they reinstate her, even if it's just for the 60 day period again.


I just read on Wrightlaw that according to my state ed law, I'm supposed to have 30 days notice in writing and they cannot make the decision to change her placement without DH and I agreeing to it. I wonder how that will play out...the IEP we signed on May 1st had her placed in school B.

 

[Libbyt]

I was going to suggest the Wrightslaw website to you - great place to gather ammunition when needed! If you can attend one of their workshops, go - they are excellent. Pick up a copy of their book, use tabs on the pages that are relevant to your issues, and BRING THE COPY WITH YOU to your IEP meetings. That has worked miracles for us on occasion - that and having all our records, evals, progress notes, etc. well organized and in a portable file tote! The book is also a good prop to use: "Now how does that prior notice thing work? Let's look it up, because I'm not clear."

I feel for you with all the changes, but one thing that we've learned over the years is that change is the one thing that never changes! On the one hand, it's stressful for your child and your whole family to have to deal with new schools, new teachers, new friends, etc. every year. On the other, it's evidence that the school system is trying to be flexible to meet the needs of your child and her peers. On yet another hand, it's an exercise in teaching your child flexibility! Try not to stress about it, go with the flow as much as you can, but stand your ground when you know you're in the right.

Find other parents that you can band together with to educate and support yourselves and each other.

Good luck!
Libby

 

[bookwormde]

It is funny I never had an issue with my son being identified as being Aspergers, either by piers or anyone else. The school was very concerned, but I told them that our children are “different” and to try to hide, ignore or deny it is not “practical” and with all things that are “hidden” there is the preconception that since it being hidden because it is something “wrong”. Our children have challenges and great gifts, and with everyone being aware of this they (including his classmates) can understand why he is “different” and help him with his challenges and enjoy the benefits of his gifts. I am lucky that his school celebrates diversity and has a strong bullying prevention policy.



bookwormde

 

[carrie6466]

I've decided I'm mostly just angry because at our meetings in both Sept and May they assured me that this very situation would not occur, because by putting her in the school she is in now, she'd be there from K - 5.

I'm not concerned about her being different. I don't care about that at all.
I do want her in inclusion, that was what we've been shooting for. I am hoping in a year or so she will be mainstreamed and this will all become a non=issue. But, what I am hoping for and the reality of life are sometimes not the same. Plus, there are/were no sp ed kids in this school, so I would be very curious to know where these kids suddenly appeared from. Not my neighborhood, because they would have gone to the school she is in now and she's the only one there from it. There is literally is one child in the surrounding area besides her. There are no new neighbors or anything. As far as I know, they haven't changed the borderlines (although I wish they would LOL).

I'm relatively sure this is a fight we're not going to win, so now I have to concentrate on is making them give her a support system to help her through this. At the very least I am going to make them follow procedure as far as written notice and the fact that so far we haven't signed off on anything to do with this other school.

 

[Piper]

Contact your school district office and request a school-to-school transfer immediately. Explain all that you have told us. Your concerns are valid. Mention mediation as a possibility if you are not satisfied!

 

[Brightsy]

You've gotten some good advice. Here's a little more. Find an advocate and explain things to him/her. They make their living ensuring special needs kids get what they deserve. Many child advocates are free. With a little research I'm sure you can find someone in your area. Once you've talked to the advocate and have a plan of action call for an IEP meeting. Take the advocate with you. A good advocate will know the laws and regulations and will be able to help you fight for your kids. They don't have a stake in what the state or school boards or whatever want, the advocate is their for the child's best interest.
I've never had to use an advocate, it came close once. I do have a couple of friends who have used an advocate to their advantage.

 

[Libbyt]

Great advice from Brightsy on finding an advocate who can help you. Before you latch onto someone, though, talk with and get recommendations from other parents. I know in our community there are some advocates that have such a reputation that the very mention of their names gets the school personnel's panties in a huge wad and they put up their hackles and immediately go into fight mode - they'll do ANYTHING to NOT be "defeated" by a particular advocate. Get someone who has a reputation of creating a team environment, win-win situations for schools and families!

Think about it like this - if you are using an advocate who makes everyone in a school miserable, then every time the staff see your child they're going to think of that person - NOT GOOD for your child or family - and that's very difficult to get away from once it's started!

Libby

 

[carrie6466]

Really tired tonight, but this is why I posted here. You guys have some really great advice. I have decided that I am going to spend Monday getting recommendations for an advocate. DH and I are going to call Sp Ed dept and tell them that we want another meeting before school ends on 6/26.

They have sent us nothing in writing yet, so as far as I know what we signed on 5/1 still stands. That is going to be my argument at this point. They had to have known a month ago that there would be an inclusion class in the other school. It couldn't have been decided, set up, and have a class and teacher and assistant, etc. all in 1 month. So I now am surmising they knew this ahead of time and that is why I have yet to receive my written IEP.

I also found out the school district has 30 school days to send it to me, not calender days, so I imagine I won't be receiving anything until next week, if my calculations are correct. My question will be since they have 30 school days to send me the IEP, do I have 30 SCHOOL days to receive my written notice that they are switching her school? If so, there are only 19 days left of this school year. Then school doesn't reconvene until the Wed. after Labor Day. So, would that then be day 20?

We are definitely going to request a transitional aide if they insist on moving her, as she has no support system and knows not one person in the new school. We've never had orientation there, met any of the staff, and know no children who attend, not even the general ed kids.

For 1st grade is it acceptable for me to insist on some kind of orientation program like they do for kindergarten, where the student meets the teacher and speech pathologist, nurse, psychologist and whoever else she may see, plus gets to see and spend some time in their classroom, etc? Or is that something only normally done for K students?

You ladies are so awesome and I thank you all for trying to help me through this mess!!

 

[bookwormde]

Sound like you have a thoughtful plan in the works. I have often found that the district does something that do not fully agree with (and is not done in keeping with IDEA regulations), if it is something that will not be “overly damaging” to my child that I will point out their “error” but give it a “try” with the agreement that certain conditions be added to meet my child’s needs and minimize the potential for damage. I have found that this is an “efficient” way to get many needed items added to the IEP without a major battle.

I am not sure about the 30-day rule and the summer break; I have faced this issue but have always insisted that issues be addressed before the new year (including having summer IEP meetings) to make sure there was an effective IEP in place on day 1 of the new school year (which is required by IDEA).

bookwormde

 

[carrie6466]

I am not sure about the 30-day rule and the summer break; I have faced this issue but have always insisted that issues be addressed before the new year (including having summer IEP meetings) to make sure there was an effective IEP in place on day 1 of the new school year (which is required by IDEA).

bookwormde

I will not go into the summer not knowing what decisions are going to be made. Our last day of school is not until 6/26, so we have plenty of time for them to set something up. I am calling tomorrow. I'm not sure how long they have after I request a meeting to set something up.

I also realized that DD has an appointment with the neurologist tomorrow evening for some test or another, so I am going to ask her to write up an opinion on the whole situation and what she thinks the optimal solution would be.

 

[Ali]

I'm a little confused and looking for clarification - I am a SPED teacher and I go to many many IEP meetings. I have never seen an exact school listed on the IEP anywhere - and every meeting I have been in it is stated that the home school will serve as the LRE unless the program isn't offfered there. I know you don't have the IEP copy (although I find that strange because we give everyone a copy before they leave the office at my school) but from you last year's IEP does it state which school your child will attend?

General advice ---Your home school is offering the class you agreed to in the IEP and you don't like it - go to the district office, apply for a zone waiver to stay at the same school you are at now, and see what happens.

 

[carrie6466]

I'm a little confused and looking for clarification - I am a SPED teacher and I go to many many IEP meetings. I have never seen an exact school listed on the IEP anywhere - and every meeting I have been in it is stated that the home school will serve as the LRE unless the program isn't offfered there. I know you don't have the IEP copy (although I find that strange because we give everyone a copy before they leave the office at my school) but from you last year's IEP does it state which school your child will attend?

General advice ---Your home school is offering the class you agreed to in the IEP and you don't like it - go to the district office, apply for a zone waiver to stay at the same school you are at now, and see what happens.

The school she was assigned to is listed by name on her IEP, as is the fact that she recieves door to door transportation on a bus with a matron to and from that school. Maybe it is listed because it is not our home school that she attends. It's been listed on all 3 of the IEP's we had for Kindergarten. There have been 3 because the teacher and the school keep calling meetings and changing things. This will be the first time I've ever asked for a meeting.

The fact is that it was discussed which school she would be going to at the meeting not only for first grade, but for second grade as well. It's actually been a focal point for our longest discussions at every meeting we've ever had and been listed on all of the IEP's. Mostly because I wanted to be reassured that we weren't going to constantly be moved around. They assured me that was not going to happen

This is the first year my home school is offering the class. They have never offered it in the 50+ years they have been around. It's very strange how they do it here. This past school year 3 elem schools had self-contained sp ed K, a different elem school had self-contained 1 - 5, another has an autism ABA class for grades 1-3, yet another has grades 1-5 inclusions classes and no one has K inclusion, because they don't have that at all. I don't know if that is at a district level or a state level.

I know it is different everywhere, but I have always received my IEP copies in the mail approximately 1 week after the meetings. In speaking with other parents this weekend, no one has ever gotten one at a meeting, simply because they aren't at the meeting (the physical papers). They aren't handwritten. They are typed out on the computer. It's not done before hand, as no one knows what will actually be on it before hand.

I am going to call the principal of the school she is in this morning and let her know that I am going to proceed with applying for some kind of waiver to stay in the school we are in now. I typed up a statement listing all the reasons I believe she would be best served staying put, not the least of which is the new school isn't even sure if they will continue inclusion program for second grade and I don't want her moved again next year.

 

[Brightsy]

I've always walked out with a copy of the IEP after the meetings. They usually have a hardcopy already printed, if any changes are made they make them on the computer they have there (in FL the case worker had a laptop she took everywhere) and printed the revised copy then and there. The last thing we do at our meetings is sign it. (BTW, I've been getting Family plans and IEPs in three different states.)

It's good to know it may be different elsewhere.

 

[carrie6466]

I've always walked out with a copy of the IEP after the meetings. They usually have a hardcopy already printed, if any changes are made they make them on the computer they have there (in FL the case worker had a laptop she took everywhere) and printed the revised copy then and there. The last thing we do at our meetings is sign it. (BTW, I've been getting Family plans and IEPs in three different states.)

It's good to know it may be different elsewhere.

I wish that's how it had been, because I would have had it in writing what was said at the meeting re: next year's school building of attendance! I am going to start the ball rolling today on a waiver, so my first step is meeting with the building principal at 8:00 am. I am told that I have to get her to agree to keep my dd in there and then I have to get the one at school B to agree that she can stay where she is. When I get home, I will call the SE dept and ask for a meeting. I want this done already.

 

[carrie6466]

So I had my meeting this morning and the principal is going to go to bat for us with the person who does the placement. She will talk to her tomorrow and give me a call. I'm hoping that will be the end of it.

On the other hand I got the IEP today in the mail. They put her school (the new school) on the first page under "Recommended Placement" and then attached a photocopy of my signature page at the end, making it look as if we approved this.

I've already put in my phone call to the head of the subcommittee that met. I'm now waiting for a return call.

Should I also have them change the constant wording of 'fidgety behavior' to "sensory seeking behavior" or am I being too picky now?

 

[Brightsy]

I'd change the wording. "Fidgety behavior" makes it sounds like a deliberate action, "Sensory seeking bahavior" may sound vague to some but it better describes it I think. My kid fidgets, but not because he wants to, right now it helps him out.

Keep on them, and keep trying to find an advocate.

Anyone know the rules on recording IEP meetings? I think I heard somewhere that you can so long as you let everyone know in advance.

 

[LMC]

In our state (Alabama) you can record the meetings just plop your recorder on the table and go. They may decide to record it to but can not refuse you to be able to record it. The only notification we have to give is if we are bringing an attorney because they will have to have one there too. As far as the IEP, I would send a copy of it to the State Special Education Coordinator and copy the local special ed coordinator that what you received IS NOT what they prepared that day and that the school placement was changed after the meeting WITHOUT your consent. I'd go ahead and send it to the state level. That will get something going. Then you get the original copy and that is the IEP that stands until changes are reviewed and agreed upon. If you do not come to an agreement (after you get the original copy which should come after you contact the state), tell them to take you to mediation. It is apprehensible that they would want to change schools for what may only be one year and create all those changes for your child. Are there any friends who will be moved to school A? People that don't deal with children like ours have no idea how these decisions (crappy decisions) affect our kids. My school system tried to pull crap like this with us last year so now I do not sign anything until the meeting is over and I do not ever leave without a copy. We had four IEP meetings this last year.