Hurricane rentals - missed opportunity for brokers?

[VGCgroupie]

I can see it from both sides. As an owner I want protections. But as a renter .. well actually I am not a gambler so thats why I never rented and always just did cash stays with Disney Visa discounts etc. I knew it was no refunds so it became a non option for me.

 

[Sandisw]

I can see it from both sides. As an owner I want protections. But as a renter .. well actually I am not a gambler so thats why I never rented and always just did cash stays with Disney Visa discounts etc. I knew it was no refunds so it became a non option for me.

I think that really is the key. No one should rent unless they are comfortable with the worst case situation, which is not being able to go and losing money.

We didn’t rent for the same reason you didn’t…the savings didn’t outweigh the risk.

Plus, if one is renting during hurricane season, one has to be aware the risk can be even greater.

 

[2010dvcfan]

I have rented in the past and used the funds for DCL and the broker I use has implemented a clause in the contract to address this very issue, it's called " Force Majeure" and it covers both the owner and the renter. The owner gets paid the final installment on check in day and the renter gets a credit for the full rental amount to use at a later date. The only person losing out here is the broker. I'm certain they do that to secure future business on both ends.

Now the broker does ask the owner to allow them to re rent the returned points if possible before they expire but the owner does not have to agree to do that if they choose not too the only reservation you are obligated to is the one you originally agreed too but morally I think as the owner I would assist with that since I was paid in full already. If the points expire or are in dreaded Holding status and nothing can be booked it is the Broker that takes the loss.

Renter is only out if they can't find another time to use the full credit they were being offered due to the "Force Majeure" and the owner is out nothing at all.

Of course I don't know if this is how all brokers handle it, so it's best to read your contract thoroughly and know what your agreeing to in all circumstances.

I have rented a lot of my points out after Covid I couldn't travel and they had backed up on me, I found it to be a very pleasant experience, quick, and easy. I read the contract multiple times and asked a lot of questions before signing anything, I think most of the concerns expressed in this thread would be summed up by reading that "Force majeure" clause in the contract.

 

[disneydreamer1980]

Those people should never have been renting in the first place, because this was always possible. Lots of people like the lower cost of point rentals, but no one seems to want to acknowledge that one of the reasons the cost is lower is that the renter is assuming more risk vs. renting directly from Disney.


Fair has nothing to do with it--this is determined by the rental contract. One popular rental site's contract is very clear:

Guest understands and agrees that all funds paid by Guest are NON-REFUNDABLE at all times and under all circumstances, including, but not limited to, hurricanes, pandemics, natural disasters, meteors
and alien invasions.

That rental site also allows you to cancel and apply part of your payment to a future trip, but it has to be more than four days in advance of check-in, and even then you're only getting 25% back.

Things can be unfair even though there’s a contract involved. One had nothing to do with the other. Fair/unfair is a moral thing not a legal one

 

[Traveling on cc points]

After seeing posts and stories elsewhere about renters with confirmed reservations that are SOL because they can't get to the airport that can't get any refunds/modifications/cancellations AND those evacuating from areas and looking for emergency accommodations inland, it seems like the brokers could be better about flexibility, re-renting reservations, etc. I know there's no incentive to do so (owner's already have 75% of the rental income, would require potentially long waits on the phone with MS to re-rent/transfer reservations), but have been seeing many posts about renters swearing off DVC rentals again because of the lack of flexibility (despite DVC itself having a somewhat generous hurricane policy), which I think is net negative for the industry that the brokers are not taking into account. Sure, one could simply say "that's what insurance is for" and I know I'm oversimplifying things and there are many considerations to think about (payments, point expirations, etc.), but just feels like at the very least it's a missed opportunity (but is also reminds me of the COVID closures and some of the shenanigans that went on).

I don’t rent out my points very often but the few times I have, I am renting non bankable points So I clearly tell my potential renters that the reservation is not refundable for any reason other than Disney closing the resort. I do spell out that this includes them missing their flight or a member of their party getting sick. I realize that this sounds harsh but finding a stretch of night to rebook before the points expire is very difficult these days.

In this case, I would have offered the reservation to someone evacuating and if someone else wanted to take over the reservation I would have been willing to refund the original renter.

If would be nice is Disney fixed the system so we could change the lead traveler online to speed up the process.

 

[disneydreamer1980]

What kind of value do you put on points? Let me know how little it is and we can arrange to transfer some of yours to me.

Our points have a value. That's why we rented them out when we decided not to go to Disney the past 2 years. The money we got for those rentals was spent on dues, taxes and a few other things. If we just allowed those points to expire, we would still have paid dues on them.

And those points still have their value when you get them back. And you got paid for them by the renter also. And they got nothing. Odds are that most people would not be in the position of imminently losing their points if they’re returned. Most people would most likely be able to re-rent them. And I’m talking in a situation like the hurricane or covid, not just a last minute cancellation on the renters part. It would be unfair to the renters, contract or not, to keep their money AND keep your points. It just would be.

 

[2010dvcfan]

Those people should never have been renting in the first place, because this was always possible. Lots of people like the lower cost of point rentals, but no one seems to want to acknowledge that one of the reasons the cost is lower is that the renter is assuming more risk vs. renting directly from Disney.


Fair has nothing to do with it--this is determined by the rental contract. One popular rental site's contract is very clear:

Guest understands and agrees that all funds paid by Guest are NON-REFUNDABLE at all times and under all circumstances, including, but not limited to, hurricanes, pandemics, natural disasters, meteors
and alien invasions.

That rental site also allows you to cancel and apply part of your payment to a future trip, but it has to be more than four days in advance of check-in, and even then you're only getting 25% back.

OH my that is not the broker clause that I used, if the contract spells it out like that, renter should defiantly use some of that savings from renting points and get a travel insurance policy then, huh.

 

[JackosinDIS]

I have had a renter check out early today so that they can relocate to their villa this evening. I have had the last nights’ points returned to my account (not in holding). I have told the renter I will try and re-rent before they expire and will refund anything I can if and when the points are re-rented. Only seems fair to do that, but it would be a nightmare to administer this through a broker.

 

[Sandisw]

Things can be unfair even though there’s a contract involved. One had nothing to do with the other. Fair/unfair is a moral thing not a legal one

Wouldn’t that apply to the renter than too? Shouldn’t they be expected to honor their side of the contract?

I guess I don’t see how it’s unfair to a renter who agreed to accept the savings over a cash stay when they booked in exchange for the potential loss if they couldn’t go.

As I said, when I had a rental, I let the room stay booked and had the points forfeited when the renter said they were not coming.

I had no desire to get involved in another rental with another party so, it’s not that simple.

ETA. This is why renting a DVC reservation is not for everyone. It’s much more risky than a cash stay booked directly with Disney.

 

[Willow Ufgood]

And those points still have their value when you get them back. And you got paid for them by the renter also. And they got nothing. Odds are that most people would not be in the position of imminently losing their points if they’re returned. Most people would most likely be able to re-rent them. And I’m talking in a situation like the hurricane or covid, not just a last minute cancellation on the renters part. It would be unfair to the renters, contract or not, to keep their money AND keep your points. It just would be.

How is it fair to to an owner to expect them to cancel the renter's reservation and get their points back? Just to get the points back without holding, you have to call and wait in the queue for member services at a time when many owners are trying to manage their own trip rescheduling. IOW, spend time that the owner may not have to accomplish this. And then the owner has to go through the process of trying to rent those points out again (possibly for less because they lost home resort priority, or the points are considered "distressed").

I'm with Sandi on this one. I wouldn't cancel the reservation and the points would just stay attached to the unused reservation.It's not the renter's fault that a hurricane disrupted their vacation plans. But it shouldn't be the owner's obligation to make it right. There's a reason that the rental agencies recommend trip insurance.

 

[Brian Noble]

Things can be unfair even though there’s a contract involved. One had nothing to do with the other. Fair/unfair is a moral thing not a legal one

But the question is: "Should the renters get a refund" and the answer is "No, because the contract clearly says they don't."

If the contract doesn't govern the outcome in this case, what's the point of having a contract?

 

[AstroBlasters]

1) I would not own DVC if it wasn’t for the Bay Lake Tower 2BD that we rented points at. It ruined us.

2) As someone who rents points, I would work to try and accommodate a reschedule, but not a refund, based on what DVC allows within weather related events.

 

[Saratoga Souris]

After seeing posts and stories elsewhere about renters with confirmed reservations that are SOL because they can't get to the airport that can't get any refunds/modifications/cancellations AND those evacuating from areas and looking for emergency accommodations inland, it seems like the brokers could be better about flexibility, re-renting reservations, etc. I know there's no incentive to do so (owner's already have 75% of the rental income, would require potentially long waits on the phone with MS to re-rent/transfer reservations), but have been seeing many posts about renters swearing off DVC rentals again because of the lack of flexibility (despite DVC itself having a somewhat generous hurricane policy), which I think is net negative for the industry that the brokers are not taking into account. Sure, one could simply say "that's what insurance is for" and I know I'm oversimplifying things and there are many considerations to think about (payments, point expirations, etc.), but just feels like at the very least it's a missed opportunity (but is also reminds me of the COVID closures and some of the shenanigans that went on).

I am an owner who had points rented out with David’s . The check in was for today.
David’s reached out immediately following the announcement to see if I was willing to work with them to help the renter . Of course I said yes!
They have reached out again today to continue to try to make this work. So, David’s is for sure trying their best!

 

[obsesseddisneyfan]

I had a great experience renting through these boards. I worked directly with the owner. Signed the contract, The contract said I could move the date of reservation in cases of hurricane, I just had to use the same points. The cost for a change was $100 to cover the time associated. Never had to use it as I was at DW a week before Ian. But was nice looking back.

 

[Flash_Sloth]

I am an owner who had points rented out with David’s . The check in was for today.
David’s reached out immediately following the announcement to see if I was willing to work with them to help the renter . Of course I said yes!
They have reached out again today to continue to try to make this work. So, David’s is for sure trying their best!

That is good to hear. I'm an owner renting points through David's with check-in for this upcoming Sunday. I'm cautiously optimistic that airports and WDW will be open by then. I would be willing to work with the renter and David's to rebook things if necessary, but finding availability that works could be several months out.

 

[samsp99]

I may be unusual, but I think the cleanest fix would be if Disney enabled owners to sell points back to Disney, and they then rented the rooms via their existing booking system. They already have the infrastructure for letting the rooms, and it would dramatically improve the story for DVC owners and those renting, and do less canibalzation of their hotel business.

 

[SL6827]

After seeing posts and stories elsewhere about renters with confirmed reservations that are SOL because they can't get to the airport that can't get any refunds/modifications/cancellations AND those evacuating from areas and looking for emergency accommodations inland, it seems like the brokers could be better about flexibility, re-renting reservations, etc. I know there's no incentive to do so (owner's already have 75% of the rental income, would require potentially long waits on the phone with MS to re-rent/transfer reservations), but have been seeing many posts about renters swearing off DVC rentals again because of the lack of flexibility (despite DVC itself having a somewhat generous hurricane policy), which I think is net negative for the industry that the brokers are not taking into account. Sure, one could simply say "that's what insurance is for" and I know I'm oversimplifying things and there are many considerations to think about (payments, point expirations, etc.), but just feels like at the very least it's a missed opportunity (but is also reminds me of the COVID closures and some of the shenanigans that went on).

I have seen a few, but only a few post where travel insurance bought separately, has paid off on DVC rentals. Perhaps because there have not been that many claims on such? But right now, I would be leary off travel insurance and renting DVC points. Hopefully in the future, more travel insurance companies can confirm 100% one would be covered.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Many in the "renting points beats owning points" camp gloss over this scenario in their argument. Yes, it sucks that some/many? renters lost money due to the hurricane, but that's the risk one assumes in renting, especially during hurricane season. I'm sure most DVCrentals go off without a hitch, to the benefit of both owners and renters, but renters can't cry foul when something like this happens.

 

[Willow Ufgood]

I may be unusual, but I think the cleanest fix would be if Disney enabled owners to sell points back to Disney, and they then rented the rooms via their existing booking system. They already have the infrastructure for letting the rooms, and it would dramatically improve the story for DVC owners and those renting, and do less canibalzation of their hotel business.

I don't imagine that would be possible given the way that Disney has structured DVC, DVD and TWDTC. It sounds like it should be a simple solution but in reality it would be pretty complex. DVC/DVD/TWDTC already turn unused points into breakage. Why would they pay owners for unused points?

Honestly, I don't think there are simple solutions outside of don't rent points for stays during hurricane season and don't rent out your points near the end of your UY if you want to be able to help renters out when they need to cancel.

 

[Sandisw]

Many in the "renting points beats owning points" camp gloss over this scenario in their argument. Yes, it sucks that some/many? renters lost money due to the hurricane, but that's the risk one assumes in renting, especially during hurricane season. I'm sure most DVCrentals go off without a hitch, to the benefit of both owners and renters, but renters can't cry foul when something like this happens.

I think that is where I stand with all this. It’s great when an owner can help a renter when something happens, but it’s not on the owner if they can’t, or won’t, when the renter went into the situation knowing the risks.

I agree with you that renting and owning are very different and what happened this week is a prime example.