Hillary Supporters unite....no bashing please! only smiles

[charlie,nj]

from www.cnn.com


April 28, 2008
Clinton, Obama dead even, poll says
Posted: 10:36 AM ET

Clinton and Obama are tied nationally and in Indiana.

(CNN) – Hillary Clinton's Pennsylvania win last Tuesday has clearly given the New York senator a boost in the national polls, the latest daily tracking survey from Gallup suggests.

Clinton and Obama are now dead even at 47 percent among likely Democrats, according the newly released numbers. That number remains unchanged from a tracking poll released Saturday and represents a 5-point gain for Clinton since her Pennsylvania win.

In a similar tracking poll released the day of the primary, Obama led Clinton by eight points, 50-42 percent. The Illinois senator's lead over Clinton reached a high of 11 points on April 14.

Meanwhile, a Newsweek poll released Saturday also shows gains for Clinton, but finds the New York senator continuing to trail Obama. In that poll, Obama holds a 7 point lead over Clinton. That margin is more than half of the 19 point lead Obama held in a similar Newsweek poll taken shorlty before the Pennsylvania primary.

Recent polls also show the two candidates locked in a dead heat in the crucial state of Indiana, which votes May 6. In a CNN "poll of polls" released Friday, Clinton and Obama both register 45 percent support from likely Democrats in the Hoosier state.

Since Obama is favored to win North Carolina — the other major prize May 6 — some Clinton advisers have said the New York senator must score a victory in Indiana remain a viable candidate.



.

 

["Got Disney"]

Did he mention that the resaon the SD's were created were for this very reason. Since many states have Democratic open elections, there has been too much room for 'mischeif", so the SD' were created after Carter won the nomination. They are to ensure the TRUE DEMOCRAT nominee gets the nod.
BTW Hillary has met all the ponts for the SD's too go her way.

She won all, but 1 or 2, closed primaries, she wom all the MUST HAVE states....etc.

Yes he did. It was very interesting to listen to. I new alot about it but learned more. He did add also that there has only been one time that the SD went a different way than the delegates. But what they will be looking for again is the best candidate to beat McCain.... that is there main job.

 

[Fitswimmer]

That is what I have been saying all along. From what I have seen, the man obviously hates white people and is mired in the past. People like this keep dragging the progress we make through the mud. Such a shame to have people who would otherwise not be mentioning race in this election bringing it up. But I didn't hear it before we started hearing these clips.

Obama may not feel the same way. I keep hoping he doesn't, but I"m afraid he might. Why else would he go to this church at all? If my priest said these things, I'd be out the door. I'd be so shocked and saddened that I'd never, ever return. I'd be afraid to have my children exposed on a regular basis to an authority figure that might warp their values. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart. It's not because I'm white and he's spewing hate about whites. I'd say the same if the minister was saying bad things about blacks. I just can't stomach it.

'
I listened to his interview with Bill Moyers this morning and I have a little more understanding now-not that I agree with him-but I also have not lived his life. Sadly, he has done a lot of good, but he's destroyed it all with those angry words. It's an approach that I don't share in regard to a social gospel.

However, I also don't share the social gospel of many evangelicals. I don't follow the prosperity gospel, because I believe it is contrary to Jesus' teaching. That teaching implies that if you're poor, you've somehow not obeyed God or prayed enough or something. It makes it easier for them to justify denying the poor help if they start from the premise that they've sinned somehow. We see it all the time here when health care or welfare comes up. I also disagree with the attitudes about the war and patriotism that many evangelical churches have adopted. Shoot, some of them practically worship the President and the Republican party and that's just not my thing...

 

[MerryPoppins]

'
I listened to his interview with Bill Moyers this morning and I have a little more understanding now-not that I agree with him-but I also have not lived his life. Sadly, he has done a lot of good, but he's destroyed it all with those angry words....

I have not walked a mile in his shoes. I don't begrudge anyone having those feelings if they've had a rough life. I just don't think it's productive to continue to indoctrinate young people to have them as well. Things are better in the US now than they used to be. I think anyone would agree with that. We're not where we need to be, but we are making progress. Saying the things he says sets us back instead of moving us forward. And they have no place in Christianity IMO

 

[KikiFan]

'
I listened to his interview with Bill Moyers this morning and I have a little more understanding now-not that I agree with him-but I also have not lived his life. Sadly, he has done a lot of good, but he's destroyed it all with those angry words. It's an approach that I don't share in regard to a social gospel.

Steven Spielberg once said something to the effect that money and fame doesn't change people, it frees them to be who they've always wanted to be. Sadly, I think this is the case with Wright. Retirement and national attention are freeing him to be a lot more militant with his beliefs and angry words. I think he's going to make this race a lot uglier then it needs to be.

However, I also don't share the social gospel of many evangelicals. I don't follow the prosperity gospel, because I believe it is contrary to Jesus' teaching. That teaching implies that if you're poor, you've somehow not obeyed God or prayed enough or something. It makes it easier for them to justify denying the poor help if they start from the premise that they've sinned somehow. We see it all the time here when health care or welfare comes up.

This is way OT ... but I just have to say something about this. I attend a church that teaches what some call a Prosperity Gospel. Now our church is certainly not evangelical - we consider ourselves New Thought. But it's not about blame or punishing someone for being poor. It's about believing in our value as a person and a child of God, and that we are all entitled to God's abundance. (and by abundance I don't mean strictly money, I mean love, friendships, joy, health and all good things.) Ultimately it's about rooting out our own sub-conscious beliefs about a value as a person. I found it very empowering.

And there is definitely no "punishing" of those whe suffer hardships. In the past year our church has done an enormous amounts of charity work. worked with Habitat for humanity, we raised enough money to build a classroom for a school in Africa, the teens raised $5,000 to donated an ark to Heifer International, we've started a garden to donate food to the local Food Pantry, we collected over 800 jars of peanut butter for Oprahs big Give and we've helped many members in need. I personally was helped during a time of great need. My daughter was sick - no healthcare (just to make it topical!) and they helped me out with over $1000 in giftcards. And no one ever made me feel less than. It's a pet peeve of mine that the prosperity thinking gets a bad rap - just because of some. Sorry I'll get of my soap box now.

 

["Got Disney"]

'
I listened to his interview with Bill Moyers this morning and I have a little more understanding now-not that I agree with him-but I also have not lived his life. Sadly, he has done a lot of good, but he's destroyed it all with those angry words. It's an approach that I don't share in regard to a social gospel.
quote]

The interview was fine...saw not much problem with that. It was his speech that he did last night that I have a problem with....

I have not walked a mile in his shoes. I don't begrudge anyone having those feelings if they've had a rough life. I just don't think it's productive to continue to indoctrinate young people to have them as well. Things are better in the US now than they used to be. I think anyone would agree with that. We're not where we need to be, but we are making progress. Saying the things he says sets us back instead of moving us forward. And they have no place in Christianity IMO

Agreed. He seems to have to add his digs into his speeches when he gives them. one part the lord the nest sentence about misjustice. I am not saying there is no misjustice. There is. But there is a way to bring it up without insulting another race going back for the beginning to today. People like him feel like all the bad done to them from Whites must continue with hate and not just remembered as a injustice that everyone must remember but learn and grow from it. He just talks hate.

This is jmo. But was blown out by someone on the Obama thread for saying that I just wish he would go away for awhile till all this is over and than was told that he has a right to speak and ignorant people just don't get it. And they went on and on.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Steven Spielberg once said something to the effect that money and fame doesn't change people, it frees them to be who they've always wanted to be. Sadly, I think this is the case with Wright. Retirement and national attention are freeing him to be a lot more militant with his beliefs and angry words. I think he's going to make this race a lot uglier then it needs to be.



This is way OT ... but I just have to say something about this. I attend a church that teaches what some call a Prosperity Gospel. Now our church is certainly not evangelical - we consider ourselves New Thought. But it's not about blame or punishing someone for being poor. It's about believing in our value as a person and a child of God, and that we are all entitled to God's abundance. (and by abundance I don't mean strictly money, I mean love, friendships, joy, health and all good things.) Ultimately it's about rooting out our own sub-conscious beliefs about a value as a person. I found it very empowering.

And there is definitely no "punishing" of those whe suffer hardships. In the past year our church has done an enormous amounts of charity work. worked with Habitat for humanity, we raised enough money to build a classroom for a school in Africa, the teens raised $5,000 to donated an ark to Heifer International, we've started a garden to donate food to the local Food Pantry, we collected over 800 jars of peanut butter for Oprahs big Give and we've helped many members in need. I personally was helped during a time of great need. My daughter was sick - no healthcare (just to make it topical!) and they helped me out with over $1000 in giftcards. And no one ever made me feel less than. It's a pet peeve of mine that the prosperity thinking gets a bad rap - just because of some. Sorry I'll get of my soap box now.

Ok, I shouldn't have generalized-but I do think that the theology CAN lead to an impression that those who have not received from God's Abundance have done something themselves to deserve it. Since their lack of abundance is then self-inflicted, the impulse to help can also be reduced.

 

[punkin]

This is way OT ... but I just have to say something about this. I attend a church that teaches what some call a Prosperity Gospel. Now our church is certainly not evangelical - we consider ourselves New Thought. But it's not about blame or punishing someone for being poor. It's about believing in our value as a person and a child of God, and that we are all entitled to God's abundance. (and by abundance I don't mean strictly money, I mean love, friendships, joy, health and all good things.) Ultimately it's about rooting out our own sub-conscious beliefs about a value as a person. I found it very empowering.

And there is definitely no "punishing" of those whe suffer hardships. In the past year our church has done an enormous amounts of charity work. worked with Habitat for humanity, we raised enough money to build a classroom for a school in Africa, the teens raised $5,000 to donated an ark to Heifer International, we've started a garden to donate food to the local Food Pantry, we collected over 800 jars of peanut butter for Oprahs big Give and we've helped many members in need. I personally was helped during a time of great need. My daughter was sick - no healthcare (just to make it topical!) and they helped me out with over $1000 in giftcards. And no one ever made me feel less than. It's a pet peeve of mine that the prosperity thinking gets a bad rap - just because of some. Sorry I'll get of my soap box now.

OK, this really is OT, but I just have to say that what you seem to be calling the prosperity doctrine is what Max Weber called the protestant work ethic and he credited it with the success of America as a business powerhouse. I am not protestant or any sort of Christian, so these are not my personal beliefs, but I can't say that something that brought forth so much creativity and wealth is entirely a bad thing.

Ha, let the conservatives call me a Communist now.

OK, back to Hillary...

 

[KikiFan]

Ok, I shouldn't have generalized-but I do think that the theology CAN lead to an impression that those who have not received from God's Abundance have done something themselves to deserve it. Since their lack of abundance is then self-inflicted, the impulse to help can also be reduced.

I agree with you on that. Some people do abuse it and see it as a way to justify not helping. I just get frustrated when it all gets lumped together.

ETA: okay, great, now I've gotta go look up Max Weber. THanks a lot punkin

 

[Planogirl]

I was also for Richardson and just cannot understand why he never "caught" However, not counting votes is just bad form and not good for the long term vitality of the Democratic party.

I agree. I don't see that having more candidates is really relevant because then you'd have to throw out all of the early voting since more candidates were involved.

The problem is that there is NO good way to resolve this.

 

[Planogirl]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";24778558]This is jmo. But was blown out by someone on the Obama thread for saying that I just wish he would go away for awhile till all this is over and than was told that he has a right to speak and ignorant people just don't get it. And they went on and on.[/QUOTE]
I agree that he has the right to speak as much as he wishes. But he's clearly hurting and not helping Obama which might be unfair but there it is.

 

[punkin]

I agree with you on that. Some people do abuse it and see it as a way to justify not helping. I just get frustrated when it all gets lumped together.

ETA: okay, great, now I've gotta go look up Max Weber. THanks a lot punkin

Weber is well worth reading. A good liberal arts education is never wasted.

I agree. I don't see that having more candidates is really relevant because then you'd have to throw out all of the early voting since more candidates were involved.

The problem is that there is NO good way to resolve this.

Yes. There is no good way. However at this point the votes have been cast and Hillary is going to use them to argue electoral majority with the SDs. Since they are deciding the nomination this year anyway maybe counting those votes won't matter after all.

 

[MAKmom]

http://news.aol.com/elections/story/_a/clinton-leads-mccain-in-new-poll/20080428090809990002

Clinton Leads McCain in New Poll


By LIZ SIDOTI,
AP
Posted: 2008-04-28 17:24:44
Filed Under: Elections News
WASHINGTON (April 28) - Hillary Rodham Clinton now leads John McCain by 9 points in a head-to-head presidential matchup, according to an Associated Press-Ipsos poll that bolsters her argument that she is more electable than Democratic rival Barack Obama.

Obama and Republican McCain are running about even.

The survey released Monday gives the New York senator and former first lady a fresh talking point as she works to raise much-needed campaign cash and persuade pivotal undecided superdelegates to side with her in the drawn-out Democratic primary fight.

Helped by independents, young people and seniors, Clinton gained ground this month in a hypothetical match with Sen. McCain, the GOP nominee-in-waiting. She now leads McCain, 50 percent to 41 percent, while Obama remains virtually tied with McCain, 46 percent to 44 percent.

Both Democrats were roughly even with McCain in the previous poll about three weeks ago.

Since then, Clinton won the Pennsylvania primary, raising questions anew about whether Obama can attract broad swaths of voters needed to triumph in such big states come the fall when the Democratic nominee will go up against McCain. At the same time, Obama was thrown on the defensive by his comment that residents of small-town America were bitter. The Illinois senator also continued to deal with the controversial remarks of his longtime Chicago pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

"I don't think there's any question that over the last three weeks her stature has improved," said Harrison Hickman, a Democratic pollster unaligned in the primary. He attributed Clinton's gains to people moving from the "infatuation stage" of choosing the candidate they like the most to a "decision-making stage" where they determine who would make the best president.

Added Steve Lombardo, a GOP pollster: "This just reinforces the sentiment that a lot of Republican strategists are having right now — that Clinton might actually be the more formidable fall candidate for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that Obama can't seem to get his footing back."

 

[punkin]

I can't wait to see how the polls in Indiana incorporate the effect of Wright's rantings.

 

[punkin]

I just saw that ad the GOP are running in NC. OMG is it a preview of the national election? G-d D-mn America all over the airwaves. Yeah Obama is a viable candidate alright.

I can't believe we are going to lose the White House in a year when it should have been a cakewalk.

 

[Dolce27]

I'm just posting to see if I can knock this thread onto the next page. I'm tired of clicking on the last page to see what's going on and being greeted by the crazy clown picture Charlie has posted as his pic.

Edited to Add: Much happier now.

 

[punkin]

That clown scares me too.

 

[MAKmom]

I had to put him on ignore a long time ago because of that picture.....CREEPY.

 

[Dolce27]

That clown scares me too.

Watch him post on this page just for a laugh at our expense...

 

[DISUNC]

I can't wait to see how the polls in Indiana incorporate the effect of Wright's rantings.

SurveyUSA 4/25-27/08

Clinton 52
Obama 43

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=fbedb864-ec9d-47ab-87f2-c41203a87585&q=45558

I'm just posting to see if I can knock this thread onto the next page. I'm tired of clicking on the last page to see what's going on and being greeted by the crazy clown picture Charlie has posted as his pic.

Edited to Add: Much happier now.