Exploiting the Market - PIT Rentals

[Sandisw]

8k Points is clearly a commercial rental. I would think that the boards here would mostly be arranged for non-commercial activity. I can easily see situations where non-commercial owners need to rent out points. All is good there. Unless you want to make DIS into a commercial rental site with a fee to do that (presently, that appears to be one use of the platinum membership), I would cap it around 1k points per year. Something like..."All members, regardless of tier, can rent or transfer up to 1k points (or the equivalent in confirmed rentals) each year." And I'd also suggest that mods don't need to add up each member individually. But there will be immediately obvious differences between someone selling a few hundred points because of a family issue and someone posting 8k of points to rent as a full-bore commercial activity. I think that latter situation is one that various board might want to avoid, because it creates clear commercial rental situations--it also creates a situation whereby a member can pay a fee to use DIS for their own commercial purposes. Someone with 8K points needs to set up their own website and manage all aspects of the transactions, from listing to follow-through.

By the current definition of the POS, DVC looks at activity on a membership and not across multiple ones.

Now, they could change that and maybe owners would like them to, but for what has been explained, they don’t necessarily do that.

So, I have three memberships and each of those is viewed on their own.

So, it’s possible that someone having 8000 points, which is chosen by DVC as the maximum to allow for personal use…implying they aren’t concerned as much at that level…might have them across many membership and that those rentals don’t trigger the threshold DVC has set.

The DIS has no way to know how those points are structured within DVC rules and nor should they because it’s simply allowing owners, who are the one responsible, to advertise.

Again, owners can and should share concerns about how DVC defines membership for commercial purposes if they don’t like it, but ultimately it is up to DVC and not an individual owners definitions on what should happen, whether it should be that way or not.

 

[disneylandtour]

8k Points is clearly a commercial rental. I would think that the boards here would mostly be arranged for non-commercial activity. I can easily see situations where non-commercial owners need to rent out points. All is good there. Unless you want to make DIS into a commercial rental site with a fee to do that (presently, that appears to be one use of the platinum membership), I would cap it around 1k points per year. Something like..."All members, regardless of tier, can rent or transfer up to 1k points (or the equivalent in confirmed rentals) each year." And I'd also suggest that mods don't need to add up each member individually. But there will be immediately obvious differences between someone selling a few hundred points because of a family issue and someone posting 8k of points to rent as a full-bore commercial activity. I think that latter situation is one that various board might want to avoid, because it creates clear commercial rental situations--it also creates a situation whereby a member can pay a fee to use DIS for their own commercial purposes. Someone with 8K points needs to set up their own website and manage all aspects of the transactions, from listing to follow-through.

PS I just checked. The person who is renting 8k points has posted 51 messages in 12 years. In the message history that is visible, all of them are related to selling points, many of which are "I sent you a PM" to potential buyers. This is not a person who is adding to community discussion aside for commercial activity of selling a whole lot of points. So maybe that's an activity that DIS wants to encourage or allow--or I can also see many downsides to it as well.

 

[disneylandtour]

By the current definition of the POS, DVC looks at activity on a membership and not across multiple ones.

Now, they could change that and maybe owners would like them to, but for what has been explained, they don’t necessarily do that.

So, I have three memberships and each of those is viewed on their own.

So, it’s possible that someone having 8000 points, which is chosen by DVC as the maximum to allow for personal use…implying they aren’t concerned as much at that level…might have them across many membership and that those rentals don’t trigger the threshold DVC has set

Again, owners can and should share concerns about how DVc defines membership for commercial purposes if they don’t like it, but ultimately it is up to DVC and not an individual owners definitions on what should happen, whether it should be that way or not.

I think most of us were responding to Chuck S's question about how this particular board operates, now DVC overall: "If we were to change the policy, what amount of points do you think we should allow per thread?"

 

[disneylandtour]

Also 8K points is allowed as the max across multiple resorts. But this is also from the DVC: "Members may rent their Vacation Points. However, the use of your Vacation Points for commercial purposes is expressly prohibited. Commercial purpose includes a pattern of rental activity or other occupancy by a Member that the Board of Condominium Association, in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice." I don't think that there's any situation where a person with 8k points who rents them year after year cannot be defined as commercial activity. And the look for the board--from a certain perspective--can be construed that that type of commercial activity can be allowed here if the person has a paid account. I'm sure that a number of resale shops also do this type of commercial activity as well. But then again, the board isn't condoning it by listing them here. Anyway, just something to think about.

 

[Sandisw]

Also 8K points is allowed as the max across multiple resorts. But this is also from the DVC: "Members may rent their Vacation Points. However, the use of your Vacation Points for commercial purposes is expressly prohibited. Commercial purpose includes a pattern of rental activity or other occupancy by a Member that the Board of Condominium Association, in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice." I don't think that there's any situation where a person with 8k points who rents them year after year cannot be defined as commercial activity. And the look for the board--from a certain perspective--can be construed that that type of commercial activity can be allowed here if the person has a paid account. I'm sure that a number of resale shops also do this type of commercial activity as well. But then again, the board isn't condoning it by listing them here. Anyway, just something to think about.

It certainly sounds like it but there is a lot more that goes into it…many of these high point owners own across several different memberships.

It might have 10 memberships , with their name and names of lots of others with 800 points each.

If thst is the case, then they may not be triggering the review you think it would. How thst trigger happens is up to DVC they can only apply rules to a membership, since the language indicates a membership can’t be used that way.

It’s why this is such a hot topic because DVC doesn’t always act the way some want them to act.

 

[Chuck S]

But again, how is renting points, and making reservations upon the request of a renter, diminishing the availability for the average DVC Member? Everyone has the same opportunity to book when it is a point rental type thing as opposed to a pre-existing reservation made solely for the purpose of rental. Even if the DVC owner were to Transfer those points to another member, they would be used in roughly the same way. It is the sole responsibility of DVC to manage members point usage, and on a per membership basis, none of us have any idea if a Member is breaking the criteria set for Commercial Renting as defined by DVC. It is entirely DVCs responsibility to oversee these situations, We can "Gladys Kravitz" all we like, but it will have the same affect that Gladys did, we're just basically nosy neighbors.

It is really basically the same as Disney using their points and the points garnered from Disney Collection trades to rent out for cash reservations.