Even Disney Is Worried About the High Cost of a Disney Vacation

[LAS2AMS]

Because attendance is an indirect measure of how much Pain the public is willing to endure. There is a point where the rise in prices will cause a fall off in attendance as people just can't afford or justify the cost. True, profits may not suffer, but the number of people in the parks will drop. Disney is about profit, true, but there is a bit of diminishing return going on.

Disney’s smart enough to know when to pull back, as they did a few years ago when they eliminated parking fees at WDW and resort fees at DLR (although parking fees remain)). They’re also smart at discounting, whether it’s free dining, ticket specials (like the 3d/4d passes last year), targeted promotions, etc. Remember in the 2000s when they offered free admission on your birthday, and later for volunteering?

This forum fixates on the Disney Bubble, but most people stay and eat outside of it. Last summer, the most popular tickets were the 3D/4D park tickets from $89-$99.

You can get more hotel for your money in Orlando, same WDW, than anywhere else in the country. Even the golf/ water park resorts in the Phoenix area - which target winter travel and were sold at bargain rates the rest of the year - now cost more.

Last summer, a family of four could’ve stayed at a beautiful resort with elaborate pool, did the four day park ticket, budgeted $100/day for food and spent less than $4K. They could’ve shaved $1K off that price if they went with less hotel. In today’s world, that’s not unreasonable.

Meanwhile, I’ve been on these forums for two decades. Some of the same users saying they’re just about done with Disney.. have been saying that for years and are the first ones to insist that staying at a CL room in the Beach Club at nearly $1,500/ night is the only way to Disney.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

Things such as Lightning Lane selling out. How quickly the after hours events sell out. For DLR it is the limited supply of AP. The parks are crowded, which is subjective I know. I would love to see hard numbers. It also remains to be seen the effect of Universal Epic Universe and the Canadian American boycott.

This doesn’t mean attendance is increasing. Increased revenue does not mean that either. Attendance may be decreasing but revenue increasing due to increased cost/price per person due to the increased ticket prices and add on costs like lightning lane.

Sellout of lightning lane will decrease the park experience for all those who did not purchase it as their waits will increase significantly. It also decreases the number of ll selections for those who did buy it, thus decreasing their experience.If it becomes known that you can’t have an enjoyable experience, attendance will drop. It may look like attendance is up due to wait times for the day.

 

[Mirabell Rose]

Disney’s smart enough to know when to pull back, as they did a few years ago when they eliminated parking fees at WDW and resort fees at DLR (although parking fees remain)). They’re also smart at discounting, whether it’s free dining, ticket specials (like the 3d/4d passes last year), targeted promotions, etc. Remember in the 2000s when they offered free admission on your birthday, and later for volunteering?

This forum fixates on the Disney Bubble, but most people stay and eat outside of it. Last summer, the most popular tickets were the 3D/4D park tickets from $89-$99.

You can get more hotel for your money in Orlando, same WDW, than anywhere else in the country. Even the golf/ water park resorts in the Phoenix area - which target winter travel and were sold at bargain rates the rest of the year - now cost more.

Last summer, a family of four could’ve stayed at a beautiful resort with elaborate pool, did the four day park ticket, budgeted $100/day for food and spent less than $4K. They could’ve shaved $1K off that price if they went with less hotel. In today’s world, that’s not unreasonable.

Meanwhile, I’ve been on these forums for two decades. Some of the same users saying they’re just about done with Disney.. have been saying that for years and are the first ones to insist that staying at a CL room in the Beach Club at nearly $1,500/ night is the only way to Disney.

Disney smart?? They are being led by a CEO who failed at training a competent successor and is only , by his own admission going to be around for a short time. His strategy is to grab as many $$ as he can for himself and then exit and use those $$ for his and his family’s enjoyment. Where Disney is in 10 years is not his concern.

 

[HokieRaven5]

Q1 2025 was the first quarter post reopening where there was a drop in YoY attendance at the domestic parks. Every other quarter has either been flat or an increase vs the prior year.

The company listed Hurricane closures as a potential reason for a 2% drop from Q1 2024 which could be possible given park closure for a day and any additional guest cancellations that may have occurred.

They’re operating at below 2019 attendance, but I don’t think guest really want that back and enough seem willing and to pay more to not have that back, for now.

 

[Minnie1222]

This doesn’t mean attendance is increasing. Increased revenue does not mean that either. Attendance may be decreasing but revenue increasing due to increased cost/price per person due to the increased ticket prices and add on costs like lightning lane.

I think the #1 complaint is still Crowds, not Cost. Until then, the most effective way for crowd control is to keep increasing prices.

I also don't believe that higher attendance means higher profits. If anything, higher attendance would lead to lower guests satisfaction.

 

[clarker99]

Q1 2025 was the first quarter post reopening where there was a drop in YoY attendance at the domestic parks. Every other quarter has either been flat or an increase vs the prior year.

The company listed Hurricane closures as a potential reason for a 2% drop from Q1 2024 which could be possible given park closure for a day and any additional guest cancellations that may have occurred.

They’re operating at below 2019 attendance, but I don’t think guest really want that back and enough seem willing and to pay more to not have that back, for now.

This. There are some bad narratives about Disney. Disney being in trouble or that trouble is right around the corner is def one of those bad takes.

Domestic parks had RECORD quarter in terms of revenue even with the closures and the hurricanes impacted profits by $120m. At 30% margin Disney lost $400m in revenue due to the storms. The record quarter could have been even bigger.

Average domestic hotel guest spend per night (room rate plus food/merch sales) crossed above $500/night for the 1st time ever in Q1.

The narratives just dont play out in the numbers. Disney isnt putting a gun to peoples head to come to their parks or stay in their hotels or go on their cruises. More than enough people willfully go and spend.

 

[reddog21]

Disney smart?? They are being led by a CEO who failed at training a competent successor and is only , by his own admission going to be around for a short time. His strategy is to grab as many $$ as he can for himself and then exit and use those $$ for his and his family’s enjoyment. Where Disney is in 10 years is not his concern.

Sounds like you have a personal issue with Igor not anything based on facts?

 

[dreamer17555]

Sounds like you have a personal issue with Igor not anything based on facts?

I’m not the person you were quoting, but the idea that somebody has a personal beef against Iger for pointing out some of his leadership flaws is a bit of a stretch.

Iger has done some wonderful things for the Disney brand, but he is also chosen an interesting (in my opinion negative) path in his last few years. It’s not like he rolled back a lot of Chapek’s unpopular decisions… He is not infallible and yes seemingly continues to struggle with grooming a successor that both fans and shareholders alike will rally behind.

 

[RivShore]

This doesn’t mean attendance is increasing. Increased revenue does not mean that either. Attendance may be decreasing but revenue increasing due to increased cost/price per person due to the increased ticket prices and add on costs like lightning lane.

Sellout of lightning lane will decrease the park experience for all those who did not purchase it as their waits will increase significantly. It also decreases the number of ll selections for those who did buy it, thus decreasing their experience.If it becomes known that you can’t have an enjoyable experience, attendance will drop. It may look like attendance is up due to wait times for the day.

Let's flip your original question - where is your data of falling attendance coming from? As others said, quarterly reports show attendance has held steady or increased (other than storm impacts). Are you saying they lied in those reports filed with the SEC?

And by the way, each one day closure due to hurricanes would impact attendance by 1.1%, seems that if not for the storms, attendance would have increased in Q1-2025.

 

[Brian Noble]

It's also worth noting that Comcast reported an attendance decline for the same quarter in domestic parks:

Revenue for Theme Parks was consistent with the prior year period, due to lower revenue at our domestic theme parks, driven by lower guest attendance, offset by higher revenue at our international theme parks.

Sea World hasn't reported the period yet, but the prior quarter was down for them too:

Attendance was 7.0 million guests, a decrease of approximately 0.1 million guests or 1.4% from the third
quarter of 2023.

We see some change in attendance, or revenue, or margins, and we often attribute it to something Disney did (or did not do). It is just as likely---and probably more so---due to some larger economic or travel trend. For example, 2024 saw a big resurgence in international travel thanks to the removal of Covid-uncertainty plus a really strong dollar. At least some of those people would have otherwise done a domestic trip to one of the theme park resorts.

I know my trip to Tokyo was great fun, and surprisingly affordable thanks to a very favorable exchange rate. I did not go to TDR, but did make it to a Swallows game. Highly recommended!

 

[LAS2AMS]

Disney smart?? They are being led by a CEO who failed at training a competent successor and is only , by his own admission going to be around for a short time. His strategy is to grab as many $$ as he can for himself and then exit and use those $$ for his and his family’s enjoyment. Where Disney is in 10 years is not his concern.

Ridiculous. The same arguments have been played out on these forums for over 20 years. People romanticize Disney into something it wasn’t. The late 80s and 90s were a period of heavy expansion, but many of those projects were funded by deep cost cutting. People who complain about the condition of the parks today clearly weren’t around in the 90s.

Many of those projects were half baked. The MGM-Studios (in both WDW and Paris), the Animal Kingdom and a California Adventure saw their budgets cut so deeply that Disney ended up spending more money to rectify it. The MGM Studios killed most of its planned attractions (including the flagship Toontown, which was also cancelled at Disneyland after the initial build out) and there was so little to do, they ended up having to build out experiences in and open the backlot. Of course, through the years Disney fans have sanitized this to say “due to the overwhelming popularity, Disney had to open the backlot to accommodate crowds.” Yeah, crowds that came in and left because they didn’t want to do the 2 hour tour.

Ultimately, you’re blaming Jay Leno for Conan’s failure on the Tonight Show. Iger didn’t want to leave and the other Bob wasn’t his hand picked replacement. Nor is Iger responsible for the price hikes - Disney is modestly adding capacity but it’s not enough to satisfy demand. Hence prices go up. WDW’s over expansion took years to correct - I’m not surprised they don’t want to try something similar again, and at least they’re spending money on new attractions and experiences with minimal budget cuts.

The people to blame for the high prices are the ones that want it so badly, they’ll pay whatever. Want prices to go down? Vote with your wallet - stay and eat elsewhere, or maybe avoid WDW altogether.

 

[redrosesix]

Us, TOO! Just had this discussion 2 weeks ago when we were there for a week. We never remember seeing so many strollers. That means either lots of kids are still coming (which they are), and/or we've become so adverse to having kids walk that more people feel the need for strollers! We visit often, and there are plenty of little kids running around enjoying the magic.

we were there 2 weeks ago as well, first time in 6 years but we went at this time every year for 11. There are not more little kids, but there are more bigger kids in strollers. There aren't even more strollers now...there used to be huge areas set aside for strollers and then they took over the areas that the fastpass machines were in. There were cast members who spent their entire day moving strollers around

I think it just seems like the parks are crowded, even with little kids, because the wait times for rides are so long and there are far fewer things for little ones to do. Sure I cursed the Honey I Shrunk the Kids playground and all of those other play areas that we had so much trouble getting out of, but I didn't want them all removed. If you want to see how many people are actually going to the parks, look at the parking lots...which were only a third full when we were there. The crowdedness is an illusion, probably deliberate to make us pay more for lightning lanes (which were never necessary during our trips 10 years ago)

 

[Cfabar1]

we were there 2 weeks ago as well, first time in 6 years but we went at this time every year for 11. There are not more little kids, but there are more bigger kids in strollers. There aren't even more strollers now...there used to be huge areas set aside for strollers and then they took over the areas that the fastpass machines were in. There were cast members who spent their entire day moving strollers around

I think it just seems like the parks are crowded, even with little kids, because the wait times for rides are so long and there are far fewer things for little ones to do. Sure I cursed the Honey I Shrunk the Kids playground and all of those other play areas that we had so much trouble getting out of, but I didn't want them all removed. If you want to see how many people are actually going to the parks, look at the parking lots...which were only a third full when we were there. The crowdedness is an illusion, probably deliberate to make us pay more for lightning lanes (which were never necessary during our trips 10 years ago)

Fewer shows, fewer B-C attractions which eat up people, and less patience for people to sit through things like Muppet Vision or The Carousel of Progress.. At the same time people want rides that are more bespoke and unique…

 

[redrosesix]

I can say now that it was obviously wrong, because as mentioned above, it did NOT result in a meaningful increase in per guest spending. I bet it did increase the number of daily rides for some guests who knew how to use the system though.

I never said that it was unlimited, just that when they got through a line, they would typically look for another ride instead of eating another meal or buying another souvenir

except that Fastpass wasn't just about helping people to get on more rides. It was all about customer service and something intangible yet necessary called Goodwill. With the free fastpass, guests felt like they had an option to standing in line for long times, had less to complain about, and were generally happy about spending even more money on sweatshirts and more future trips. I'm sure it's not just the fact that we no longer have resort delivery that has cut merchandise sales, but when we were there 2 weeks ago we bought nothing in the parks other than food, and most of the stores were basically empty. I think their merchandising sucks compared to 10 years so that's a factor, but they did have some very nice shirts and sweaters...that nobody was buying...

we've also gone from 2 weeks trips onsite with 7 park days every year to 1 week with 3 park days every couple of years. And many people I spoke with during our trip are doing the same. The parks feel more crowded but that's because there is much less to do that doesn't require a one hour wait or a lightning lane. And doing nothing for 55 minutes to do a ride for 5 gets boring real fast.

the next trip we'll be staying offsite, since there are so few amenities now for resort guests that I'm just comparing prices now. That's another thing that created Goodwill, and made us happy to wear our Disney shirts year round and help our friends to plan their trips.

 

[Minnie1222]

Is there any evidence that merchandise sale is failing? I think Disney would have brought back the resort delivery by now if they believe it would boost their sales. I still see a lot of people buying merchandise at the parks.

 

[Cfabar1]

Fastpass was all about getting people to spend more money and as @Brian Noble and others have shared, it was a failed experiment… and one that stuck around for a very long time because of the goodwill it engendered and the fact that the Disney Decade was succeeded by a decade of Disney recovering from recessions that negatively impacted travel…

To me, I find it easier to understand why the loss leaders like Fastpass and Magical Express were altered/eliminated…

I wish that the live entertainment experience was still as robust as it used to be - no more parades at Epcot and AK, No more nighttime show at AK, No more Citizens of Hollywood, etc. I also wish that products that might not have been super profitable (but probably made money) like adult classes, kids clubs, etc. were still around. I’m surprised they haven’t gotten rid of the boardwalk bicycle rentals for example… The ticket offers less, however what is offered in many ways is of higher quality in terms of the E-ticket attractions… So, I can see both sides….

Personally I think the value hotel pricing is about right - especially since there are no parking fees and no resort fees. I also find Disney food to be expensive, but not shamefully more than similar quality restaurants in my local area by and large…. To me it is the Deluxe hotel prices that are really difficult to justify… $1,000 for the contemporary resort to me seems silly - especially if your entire vacation doesn’t take place at the Magic Kingdom… but if someone wants to pay it, that’s all that matters…

How DVC and Deluxe Resorts continue to interact with pricing I think is also part of the problem, and I say this as an owner…

 

[Cfabar1]

Is there any evidence that merchandise sale is failing? I think Disney would have brought back the resort delivery by now if they believe it would boost their sales. I still see a lot of people buying merchandise at the parks.

My hunch is that resort delivery, depending on how you want to account for it, was viewed entirely as a loss on the books…

That said, if I were buying a several thousand dollar piece of crystal I wouldn’t want to have to walk it all the way around the park and back to the bus and ride around with it with my kid on the stroller… So, I am sure in some ways it helped with sales, and prevented the “we will stop in the shop on the way out” sort of atmosphere….

As I recall Disney also eliminated certain delivery of in room gifts… Just not enough $$ to justify the expense, which is a sadness…

 

[LAS2AMS]

we were there 2 weeks ago as well, first time in 6 years but we went at this time every year for 11. There are not more little kids, but there are more bigger kids in strollers. There aren't even more strollers now...there used to be huge areas set aside for strollers and then they took over the areas that the fastpass machines were in. There were cast members who spent their entire day moving strollers around

I think it just seems like the parks are crowded, even with little kids, because the wait times for rides are so long and there are far fewer things for little ones to do. Sure I cursed the Honey I Shrunk the Kids playground and all of those other play areas that we had so much trouble getting out of, but I didn't want them all removed. If you want to see how many people are actually going to the parks, look at the parking lots...which were only a third full when we were there. The crowdedness is an illusion, probably deliberate to make us pay more for lightning lanes (which were never necessary during our trips 10 years ago)

I don’t question that attendance and revenue per guest are up. The additions to the theme parks has made them more desirable to spend more time in, at the same time parking hopping costs have swelled (and it’s not even an option on the best ticket deals). A person who starts their day at the DHS, goes to Epcot for the Food and Wine festival, then finishes the day at the MK counts as three turns on the turnstiles. A person who spends all day at DHS counts as one, and we’re seeing a lot more of that.

Parking lots are deceitful. When I was growing up in the 90s, flying to Florida was a big deal. Today, high school and college students fly around the county (for a few days) like it’s nothing. We live in a world of cheap flights. We also live in a world of expensive car rentals, $30/day parking at WDW and cheap ride shares. Naturally people are gong to forgo the rental and just use a ride share. Ironically, ride shares reduced the demand for rental cars, which reduced the supply, which lead to prices increasing….

Again, I’ve read these same arguments for 20 years. Maybe you’ve moved on in life and the “Magic” isn’t what it was? My brother was a huge, obsessed Disney fanatic and married a girl he worked with at the Disney Store. She wasn’t nearly the fan he was, then he had two daughters who are even less fans. A couple years ago, they dropped almost $10k on a WDW vaca. The little one screamed so badly — she cant handle waiting in lines or enduring the FL hear — they had to leave the parks after a couple hours.

All I hear is that Disney changed. No, it hasn’t - you changed.

 

[New Mouse]

Fastpass was all about getting people to spend more money and as @Brian Noble and others have shared, it was a failed experiment… and one that stuck around for a very long time because of the goodwill it engendered and the fact that the Disney Decade was succeeded by a decade of Disney recovering from recessions that negatively impacted travel…

To me, I find it easier to understand why the loss leaders like Fastpass and Magical Express were altered/eliminated…

I wish that the live entertainment experience was still as robust as it used to be - no more parades at Epcot and AK, No more nighttime show at AK, No more Citizens of Hollywood, etc. I also wish that products that might not have been super profitable (but probably made money) like adult classes, kids clubs, etc. were still around. I’m surprised they haven’t gotten rid of the boardwalk bicycle rentals for example… The ticket offers less, however what is offered in many ways is of higher quality in terms of the E-ticket attractions… So, I can see both sides….

Personally I think the value hotel pricing is about right - especially since there are no parking fees and no resort fees. I also find Disney food to be expensive, but not shamefully more than similar quality restaurants in my local area by and large…. To me it is the Deluxe hotel prices that are really difficult to justify… $1,000 for the contemporary resort to me seems silly - especially if your entire vacation doesn’t take place at the Magic Kingdom… but if someone wants to pay it, that’s all that matters…

How DVC and Deluxe Resorts continue to interact with pricing I think is also part of the problem, and I say this as an owner…

Fastpass and Magical Express did get people to spend more money.....over time. Not everything has to be an immediate return, you need a balance for your long term stability.

 

[clarker99]

I don’t question that attendance and revenue per guest are up. The additions to the theme parks has made them more desirable to spend more time in, at the same time parking hopping costs have swelled (and it’s not even an option on the best ticket deals). A person who starts their day at the DHS, goes to Epcot for the Food and Wine festival, then finishes the day at the MK counts as three turns on the turnstiles. A person who spends all day at DHS counts as one, and we’re seeing a lot more of that.

FYI, as per Disney’s SEC filings on how they track attendance:

Attendance is used to analyze volume trends at our theme parks and is based on the number of unique daily entries, i.e. a person visiting multiple theme parks in a single day is counted only once. Our attendance count includes complimentary entries but excludes entries by children under the age of three.