Even Disney Is Worried About the High Cost of a Disney Vacation

[LAS2AMS]

That’s the average spend per weeklong vacation. I wouldn’t expect that trips to WDW, Hawaii, NYC, etc. would cost the same as going to Joshua Tree National Park, the Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame, or Myrtle Beach.

 

[clarker99]

Here's the info on lower- (and upper- where available) income bounds by quintile.

The lower limit for the top 20% was $148,682 in 2023.

The middle 20%, which I'm using as the definition of "middle class", had income between $54,553 and $90,238 with an average of $71,057.

Please don't make me link to 150 BLS datasets.

ETA: The other thing to take into account here is that the number of people in each household goes up with income.

So there are 1.6 people in the average household in the bottom 20% of incomes, but 2.5 (so one more person) in the middle and 3.2 (i.e., double) in the highest quintile.

Kids are the new pets.

Thanks. I don't see the high end of the ranges but lots of data there.

I think we are safe to assume $264k is misleading to the high side bc the top 20% is gonna have a very wide range and not evenly distributed. The few very high earners ($1m+) are going to skew the averages for all things (income and spending) in the highest quintile.

I don't know Disney's target market income but if they are using the average of the top quintile they likely missing out on thousands of families and individuals in the bottom end of the range who have the money to visit.

Also, tough to compare demographics in this. Not all income is equal. $1 in San Fran is not equal to $1 in small town Montana. Plus many other nuances that are tough to integrate.

 

[AquaDame]

Statement from Disney released this morning.

https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/disney-offers/

February 10, 2025

Disney Parks Offers: Everything You Need to Know​

Oh look, more ticket offers directed at Floridians specifically for WDW. I know the hotel discount is targeted to everyone, but if I am on a budget, I'm not staying onsite as it is more expensive than offsite even with the discount. At this point the only time we stay onsite at WDW is when we rent DVC - if we are within 11 months we have and will continue to stay offsite.

Here's the info on lower- (and upper- where available) income bounds by quintile.
So there are 1.6 people in the average household in the bottom 20% of incomes, but 2.5 (so one more person) in the middle and 3.2 (i.e., double) in the highest quintile.

Kids are the new pets.

They have been for a long time... I knew we wouldn't have kids in our 20s as we couldn't yet guarantee we could afford all the costs associated with daycare and such. Most folk I know reached that tipping point in their 30s to have them, but things have only gotten exponentially more expensive since... not sure what age their kiddos will have their own at this rate.

How does the data show folks with roommates...? Is it possible the same 'household' has 3 singles living in it all claiming 1 but it gets counted as a household of 3? Or are those singles counted 3 individual times?

 

[LAS2AMS]

Thanks. I don't see the high end of the ranges but lots of data there.

I think we are safe to assume $264k is misleading to the high side bc the top 20% is gonna have a very wide range and not evenly distributed. The few very high earners ($1m+) are going to skew the averages for all things (income and spending) in the highest quintile.

I don't know Disney's target market income but if they are using the average of the top quintile they likely missing out on thousands of families and individuals in the bottom end of the range who have the money to visit.

Also, tough to compare demographics in this. Not all income is equal. $1 in San Fran is not equal to $1 in small town Montana. Plus many other nuances that are tough to integrate.

Discretionary income = gross income less taxes less bills. Hence why I said earlier it’s the most relevant statistic. Household income, especially in this era, is decepful.

I’ve seen no evidence that Disney targets high income earners. To the contrast, they allowed an outside developer to build a Four Seasons because many high income earners avoided WDW hotels. If we stick to the Unofficial Guide’s roots, it claimed in the early 1990s that there wasn’t a better company at getting people to spend their money than Disney.

Ultimately, Disney has a limited amount of capacity and a huge fan base. No doubt that bases’ spending has caused prices to rise (it’s a supply/ demand thing).

Disney has tried to attract more modest incomes by building out Flamingo Crossing. Staying on site is not an integral part of a WDW vaca.

 

[Minnie1222]

I’d handily bet that the average Disney visitor has a modest income, and the core Disney customers are the fanatics who spend every penny they have on the Mouse. Many high income earners come from accounting/ finance industry and they tend to be picky about how they spend their cash — not many are going to make multiple trips to the Grand Floridian Club Level for $1500/night.

I’ve been on these forums for 20 years, when it was more of a community, and the biggest advocates that staying at club level deluxe hotels was game changing and the only way to go… were often in the debt and bankruptcy threads. Surprise!

This is an extreme generalization!

 

[PinkTink63]

IMO, 2008-2010 were the best Disney years--you had magical moments, it was fairly affordable, EMH, airline checkin and Magical Express. And if you were lucky, you'd get a sweet PIN code too.

That was during a recession and they offered many discounts. It was also very crowded when we would go. We would go 2-3 times per year. Those were the days!! Loved the fast pass system and extra magic hours for onsite guests. Disney has never been inexpensive but we felt that we did get bang for our buck. We haven’t been since 2019 and there has been so many changes. I’m not sure how everything works now but I know you have to make reservations for the parks. You have to pay for fast passes (aka LL) and have to be on your phone constantly trying to book them. Not magical IMO. I don’t know if they have EMH’s anymore. So many private events at exorbitant costs which closes the parks early for regular paying guests. Renting out my points again this year. Not sure when we will be returning but went to Europe last year for 22 days and spent less than it would have cost going to DW.

 

[lentesta]

Oh look, more ticket offers directed at Floridians specifically for WDW. I know the hotel discount is targeted to everyone, but if I am on a budget, I'm not staying onsite as it is more expensive than offsite even with the discount. At this point the only time we stay onsite at WDW is when we rent DVC - if we are within 11 months we have and will continue to stay offsite.



They have been for a long time... I knew we wouldn't have kids in our 20s as we couldn't yet guarantee we could afford all the costs associated with daycare and such. Most folk I know reached that tipping point in their 30s to have them, but things have only gotten exponentially more expensive since... not sure what age their kiddos will have their own at this rate.

How does the data show folks with roommates...? Is it possible the same 'household' has 3 singles living in it all claiming 1 but it gets counted as a household of 3? Or are those singles counted 3 individual times?

A household is everyone who lives in a single dwelling. So 3 roommates is 1 household, if I've understood that correctly.

 

[MICKIMINI]

All this stroller talk up-thread is… uhh… strange to me. Should we also talk about how ECV usage has increased too? No, and stay out of people’s business.

I agree with everything you said!

Having had a TKR 5 years ago, an ECV has allowed me to enjoy our WDW trips with DH, our son and DIL. Being DVC members, it's been our second home for 30 years. I hoped for many years that he would marry a Disney girl and he did about the time my knee was toast. I'm sure the people pushing big kids around in strollers need to as much as I need an ECV.

Respectfully, since people are spending a fortune they deserve to be comfortable despite what others think and perhaps, vocalize.

 

[MarkNC2Disney]

Having had a TKR 5 years ago, an ECV has allowed me to enjoy our WDW trips with DH, our son and DIL. Being DVC members, it's been our second home for 30 years. I hoped for many years that he would marry a Disney girl and he did about the time my knee was toast. I'm sure the people pushing big kids around in strollers need to as much as I need an ECV.

Respectfully, since people are spending a fortune they deserve to be comfortable despite what others think and perhaps, vocalize.

I completely agree! Hence why it rubbed me the wrong way that some would question why a child of any age “still required” a stroller. Questioning mobility is obnoxious behavior.

 

[Brian Noble]

The thinking that Disney put forward for the free FP’s was that if you were standing in line, so was your wallet, and you were not spending money on food or souvenirs (which you could then have delivered to your room, something else that has been cut). It was about park flow and keeping people moving. No longer a concern.

Except that is not at all what happened.

If you go back and look at the quarterly and annual reports, there was no unexpected jump in per-guest spending when Fastpass was originally deployed. That's because....

If that is what they thought, they were obviously wrong. If you think it through to the end, guests can only eat so much per day and most will only spend so much on souvenirs as well.

this.

No one buys a fourth meal, or gets a second set of mouse ears to put on top of the first. What they did was get in line for some other ride.

 

[angelmav]

If that is what they thought, they were obviously wrong. If you think it through to the end, guests can only eat so much per day and most will only spend so much on souvenirs as well.

I have a feeling that most guests just used that saved time to get more fast passes and then ride more rides, which increases costs for Disney without providing any extra revenue. It worked out well for these guests, which is why they were sad to see it go. You could do a full day in less time or even more things in a full day, without spending anything extra. If that worked so well, they could just make everything virtual queue and have no long lines, but that doesn't work for a few reasons.


So now with the LLs you pay for the extra time up front, then it doesn't matter what you do with your saved time, they got the money they were looking for

I’m not sure how you can say that was ‘obviously wrong’ when that was the system in place for many years and led to record profits for the parks fueling expansion.

You are also wrong about how it was used. It wasn’t some unlimited bucket of never ending fast passes.

Personally I wish they would at least add back to the system the ability to pre-book a couple FP’s ahead of time at least for on sight guests. Having to be up and online at 7am to score a VQ or book out that day is not an improvement over previous systems. The expensive pass might make them more in the short term, but it’s not going to lead to people wanting to repeat the experience. Eventually even Disney will burn through their one and done’s.

 

[angelmav]

Brian Noble, take it up with Eisner. That’s what they said at the time.

 

[Tatebeck]

I’m not sure how you can say that was ‘obviously wrong’ when that was the system in place for many years and led to record profits for the parks fueling expansion.

You are also wrong about how it was used. It wasn’t some unlimited bucket of never ending fast passes.

I can say now that it was obviously wrong, because as mentioned above, it did NOT result in a meaningful increase in per guest spending. I bet it did increase the number of daily rides for some guests who knew how to use the system though.

I never said that it was unlimited, just that when they got through a line, they would typically look for another ride instead of eating another meal or buying another souvenir

 

[fatmanatee]

Personally I wish they would at least add back to the system the ability to pre-book a couple FP’s ahead of time at least for on sight guests.

They already did this.

 

[Cfabar1]

Lightning Lane was also a way to turn the AP into a recurring revenue stream…

The data from Len is fascinating and tells quite a great story…

Of course not all years are travel expenses the same. Some families in the 4th group or the 3rd group could, theoretically spend less on travel one year to have more money for travel in another year.

In fact the commentary on the danger that Disney has is the comparison to other vacations… We like Disney right now because, with young kids, it is convenient, it is easy, and for us right now - it is not a very long drive…

I’m not sure if we had teenagers, and were looking to spend the same amount of money on travel if we would pick Walt Disney World… we might pick Europe one year, or Alaska, or a National Park Road trip… A great follow up to this would be to learn what other trips are a comparable cost to the Disney Vacation…

Having sailed on DCL a few times, I would imagine that many sailors are those who are happy to spend above average on travel for their quintile… That’s another part to this… Put another way, many DCL cruises are higher than the top 20% typical travel budget - especially in several premium room types…

Our family loves travel, so we spend less on other things and more on travel. Other people we know hate travel, so when they do it it is a smaller than average amount on their income.

 

[Minnie1222]

The expensive pass might make them more in the short term, but it’s not going to lead to people wanting to repeat the experience.

I'm not sure about this! Once you go Premier, it's hard to go back to the ordinary.

Eventually even Disney will burn through their one and done’s.

Only if the world stops churning out children.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Remember when Iger said that Disney parks were priced too aggressively? Yeah, well guess that was a lie and this is too lol especially since they just announced price increases for the Premier pass.

I think the biggest issue is the value. You're paying more and getting less and that is what is making people not want to return.

 

[lentesta]

Of course not all years are travel expenses the same. Some families in the 4th group or the 3rd group could, theoretically spend less on travel one year to have more money for travel in another year.

I have a note in my blog post that covers this!! (Note 4).

So, as an example, the average middle class family (the 3rd quintile) spent $1,887 on out-of town travel in 2023. That's straight from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) data.

The BLS says that includes:

- Families who spent $0 in previous years to spend $1,887 this year
- Familes who took on debt to spend that $1,887

Also, and this is another note in the post, technically this is "out-of-town travel", which includes things like travel for weddings, family reunions, funerals, and the like. Many people would call those obligations, not vacations. So actual travel on vacations is almost certainly lower than the BLS numbers I used.

 

[ThatCubT]

Problem is, there will still be people willing to pay whatever price WDW decide to charge, so the price will continue to rise.

 

[LAS2AMS]

I have a note in my blog post that covers this!! (Note 4).

So, as an example, the average middle class family (the 3rd quintile) spent $1,887 on out-of town travel in 2023. That's straight from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) data.

The BLS says that includes:

- Families who spent $0 in previous years to spend $1,887 this year
- Familes who took on debt to spend that $1,887

Also, and this is another note in the post, technically this is "out-of-town travel", which includes things like travel for weddings, family reunions, funerals, and the like. Many people would call those obligations, not vacations. So actual travel on vacations is almost certainly lower than the BLS numbers I used.

A one week vacation to just about anywhere is going to cost over $1800. According to the NYT, the median Millennial household spent almost $7K on vacations in 2023. Maybe it’s less about the affordability of a WDW vacation, and more about the increasing income inequity since Covid?