Even Disney Is Worried About the High Cost of a Disney Vacation

[Minnie1222]

The dumbest move in all of their moves was charging for lightning lane.
Honestly, where did these guys go to business school?

Probably the same school where they taught different prices for different seats at a sport event.

 

[Minnie1222]

The rides worked! You didn't have major headliners down every day in every park.

Uh no! Rides broke down back then too. You just didn't hear about it because there were neither instant social media nor App to check every minute.

 

[NickC]

For some that is preferable, just speaking generally here.

Yeah, that's me. I would gladly give up TRON, SWGE, Toy Story Land and New Fanstasy Land in exchange for ME and the old CBJ. Different strokes and all that.

 

[ChipTheRescueRanger]

As far as I could find on the website they don't have the first QS option only the second/middle one. There used to be 3 tiers available.

In the past years the UK packages often had more included in the dining plan options, I think in many years past it was tips included beyond the time that they stopped including it in the U.S. ones but IIRC there were more meals or just a variation included for the UK deals. Most of the time the Boards seem to glean what could be available for the U.S. peeps by when the UK ones would come out and the UK packages would have validity dates far beyond what is available to the U.S.

Sadly it was many moons ago the DDP included tips. There was sometime you could get cash bookings at DVC resorts silly cheap with DDP. But obviously as prices across the board have risen the good deals for UK have gone. Partly due to the fall in the value of the pound.

 

[Minnie1222]

All this stroller talk up-thread is… uhh… strange to me. Should we also talk about how ECV usage has increased too? No, and stay out of people’s business.

The stroller talk was a response to this sentence:
"Disney parks may be losing their grip on the hearts and wallets of families with young kids."

Based on the ever-increasing number of strollers at the parks, it doesn't look like there's a shortage of young children.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Sadly it was many moons ago the DDP included tips. There was sometime you could get cash bookings at DVC resorts silly cheap with DDP. But obviously as prices across the board have risen the good deals for UK have gone. Partly due to the fall in the value of the pound.

Yeah it's been quite a while that tips were included. I was just trying to think of examples going off memory of things that differed in offerings to account for the international (in this case UK) guest.

 

[ChipTheRescueRanger]

Yeah it's been quite a while that tips were included. I was just trying to think of examples going off memory of things that differed in offerings to account for the international (in this case UK) guest.

Disney has taken away a load of things for UK guests. With removal of free magcbands we also now cant pre order them at a discounted rate. What is annoying

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Disney has taken away a load of things for UK guests. With removal of free magcbands we also now cant pre order them at a discounted rate. What is annoying

I'm annoyed that we don't get included MB for an onsite stay so I can imagine how y'all feel.

 

[lentesta]

I provided some of the data for this article. Happy to answer any questions.

One of the origin points for the story came when I said to Robbie, "Disney prices its theme parks for the top 20% of American households by income - those making $264,000 before taxes."

Robbie asked if I could back that up.

That ended up being a 40-page blog post that included 150+ datasets on everything from US household income, to the Bureau of Labor Statistics' Consumer Expenditure Survey, to average US automobile fuel economy and the size of NFL markets.

If the mods are cool with it, I'm happy to link to the blog. Totally understand if not.

 

[LAS2AMS]

I provided some of the data for this article. Happy to answer any questions.

One of the origin points for the story came when I said to Robbie, "Disney prices its theme parks for the top 20% of American households by income - those making $264,000 before taxes."

Robbie asked if I could back that up.

That ended up being a 40-page blog post that included 150+ datasets on everything from US household income, to the Bureau of Labor Statistics' Consumer Expenditure Survey, to average US automobile fuel economy and the size of NFL markets.

If the mods are cool with it, I'm happy to link to the blog. Totally understand if not.

I’d be curious to see the data. The revelant metric is discretionary, not household, income. For example… If you’re 45+, you had an opportunity to initially purchase into housing at a significantly lower rate than those 25-45, and thus may have higher an higher discretionary (but lower hoisehold) income.

I’d handily bet that the average Disney visitor has a modest income, and the core Disney customers are the fanatics who spend every penny they have on the Mouse. Many high income earners come from accounting/ finance industry and they tend to be picky about how they spend their cash — not many are going to make multiple trips to the Grand Floridian Club Level for $1500/night.

I’ve been on these forums for 20 years, when it was more of a community, and the biggest advocates that staying at club level deluxe hotels was game changing and the only way to go… were often in the debt and bankruptcy threads. Surprise!

 

[LAS2AMS]

While some Disney employees may be troubled by Disney’s pricing… let’s be frank. WDW has added little capacity over the past quarter century and this demand exceeds supply. People complain about the prices, but they also complain about the crowds. Bottom line - as long as people are willing to pay the current pricing, it’s not coming down. Disney will discount where it has to, as we’re seen them do, to fill voids. Otherwise, prices will keep going up.

The only way this will change is if people vote with their wallets. This forum loves to complain, but at the end of the day, most everybody here will pay whoever Disney wants.

 

[clarker99]

One of the origin points for the story came when I said to Robbie, "Disney prices its theme parks for the top 20% of American households by income - those making $264,000 before taxes."

Couple questions:
$264k is the average of the top 20%.

What is the range on that average ($150k - $10m)?

What is the range of the fourth percentile ($117k avg)?

And what are the median incomes of top 2 percentiles? Have to assume the median of the highest 20% is well above $264k.

 

[angelmav]

Twins mom hit on this precisely for me. What first attracted me to WDW was the all-inclusive nature. I didn’t want to have to think about too many things once in the bubble, the planning would be done, then just enjoy it. That no longer exists. It really was what sold it for me. Heck, you didn’t even have to bring cash! They would pick you up, get your bags to your room and have all your entertainment lined up for one charge. Then drop you back off for your return home.

 

[lentesta]

Couple questions:
$264k is the average of the top 20%.

What is the range on that average ($150k - $10m)?

What is the range of the fourth percentile ($117k avg)?

And what are the median incomes of top 2 percentiles? Have to assume the median of the highest 20% is well above $264k.

Here's the info on lower- (and upper- where available) income bounds by quintile.

The lower limit for the top 20% was $148,682 in 2023.

The middle 20%, which I'm using as the definition of "middle class", had income between $54,553 and $90,238 with an average of $71,057.

Please don't make me link to 150 BLS datasets.

ETA: The other thing to take into account here is that the number of people in each household goes up with income.

So there are 1.6 people in the average household in the bottom 20% of incomes, but 2.5 (so one more person) in the middle and 3.2 (i.e., double) in the highest quintile.

Kids are the new pets.

 

[wabbott]

Here's a link to Len Testa's blog post.

https://touringplans.com/blog/how-m...S*MTczOTIxMjIzNC4yLjEuMTczOTIxMjI1My40MS4wLjA.

 

[angelmav]

I'm not sure LL is inherently a bad idea. It is definitely making them money, but it just looks bad because they used to have fastpass for free. If they never had fastpass then I don't think it would get nearly the stink that it does. Thinking back on it I don't know why they ever decided to have free fastpass at all, unless it was to get people used to a shorter line option that they could then start charging for later. It doesn't really make business sense to increase operating costs for an option that doesn't make money.

If they didn't have lighting lane, they would likely have raised prices even higher for tickets. Who knows how much, $25 more per day, $50 more per day, even more? I personally like it as it gives another option that you can pay for if you value your time.

But, one area that it may be hurting Disney is that it makes shorter trips more feasible. We had some family members join us for the last 3 days of our last trip. For the first part of our trip we went to some parks, took it slow, didn't buy LLMP (just a couple LLSP rides on guardians lol), and it went fine. But once they got there we did LLMP and LLSP for the last few days. around $170 extra per person, but it let us do basically EVERYTHING (except for the kiddiest rides) in all 4 parks in 3 days pretty easily. You can now come for 3 or 4 days instead of a week if you use LLs and just want to do all the rides. So with around the cost of one extra park day, a family could be able to buy LLs to decrease their trip by several days.

So I think they should give more benefits and extras to people who stay at the Disney hotels/DVC to make sure their own hotels stay filled up. Even longer early entry, more extended hours, maybe a free LL per day, or 1 day of LLMP per trip for example. They should probably look at how the ticket packages price out as well. Make 1-3 day tickets crazy expensive per day and then give a big discount the longer you book for.

But then I also think an about how a big discrepancy is the price difference and pass options for Florida residents vs people traveling to WDW. Someone who is already paying for a flight, and possibly paying for onsite hotels, is getting a much worse deal than someone who just happens to live nearby. A yearly pixie pass that gives access (for what around 200 days through the year) is around the cost of 2 park days for an out of state visitor! A little over $2 per possible park day vs around $200 lol. I would look at getting rid of the pixie pass, or at least severely limiting how many reservations the lower tiers of the passes a park gets each day. They clearly make way more money on a guest buying a ticket package vs a cheap florida-only annual pass.

The thinking that Disney put forward for the free FP’s was that if you were standing in line, so was your wallet, and you were not spending money on food or souvenirs (which you could then have delivered to your room, something else that has been cut). It was about park flow and keeping people moving. No longer a concern.

The Pixie Pass and other Florida discounts are their firewall against bad times. It’s the locals that keep the doors open during downturns. I really don’t think they have any interest in messing with that.

 

[RivShore]

I provided some of the data for this article. Happy to answer any questions.

One of the origin points for the story came when I said to Robbie, "Disney prices its theme parks for the top 20% of American households by income - those making $264,000 before taxes."

Robbie asked if I could back that up.

That ended up being a 40-page blog post that included 150+ datasets on everything from US household income, to the Bureau of Labor Statistics' Consumer Expenditure Survey, to average US automobile fuel economy and the size of NFL markets.

If the mods are cool with it, I'm happy to link to the blog. Totally understand if not.

Hey, Len!

Question on how price variability based season was taken into account -

Robbie wrote:
For a two-parent family with two young kids, a typical four-day visit to Walt Disney World, including a stay at a value-priced, Disney-owned hotel, cost $4,266 in 2024, according to Touring Plans, a data provider that helps vacationers plan theme park visits. That cost, before food and transportation costs, is up from $3,230 five years earlier, adjusted for inflation.

A paragraph or 2 down, Disney says that family would spend just $3,000 on that vacation in the fall (actually less than inflation). Are we actually comparing apples to apples (or fall to fall) since Disney's change to demand based pricing?

 

[Tatebeck]

The thinking that Disney put forward for the free FP’s was that if you were standing in line, so was your wallet, and you were not spending money on food or souvenirs (which you could then have delivered to your room, something else that has been cut). It was about park flow and keeping people moving. No longer a concern.

The Pixie Pass and other Florida discounts are their firewall against bad times. It’s the locals that keep the doors open during downturns. I really don’t think they have any interest in messing with that.

If that is what they thought, they were obviously wrong. If you think it through to the end, guests can only eat so much per day and most will only spend so much on souvenirs as well.

I have a feeling that most guests just used that saved time to get more fast passes and then ride more rides, which increases costs for Disney without providing any extra revenue. It worked out well for these guests, which is why they were sad to see it go. You could do a full day in less time or even more things in a full day, without spending anything extra. If that worked so well, they could just make everything virtual queue and have no long lines, but that doesn't work for a few reasons.


So now with the LLs you pay for the extra time up front, then it doesn't matter what you do with your saved time, they got the money they were looking for

 

[LAS2AMS]

Again, income is completely meaningless. I live in South Orange County, CA. In my city, the median home value was $350K in 1998. Today, it’s $1.4M. In CA, property tax increase for incumbent home owners is limited, meaning that if I bought at $1.4M, the property taxes alone would exceed the total principal, interest and tax payments for somebody who bought in 1998 and refinanced at 4.5% (they could do better).


The imbalance in house costs makes household income unreliable. And if you have 20-somethings living at home, they’re included in household income.

Alas, I seriously doubt Disney’s core customer are high income earners. I’d handily bet that regular middle class repeat visitors account for a disproportionate amount of revenue.

 

[lentesta]

Hey, Len!

Question on how price variability based season was taken into account -

Robbie wrote:
For a two-parent family with two young kids, a typical four-day visit to Walt Disney World, including a stay at a value-priced, Disney-owned hotel, cost $4,266 in 2024, according to Touring Plans, a data provider that helps vacationers plan theme park visits. That cost, before food and transportation costs, is up from $3,230 five years earlier, adjusted for inflation.

A paragraph or 2 down, Disney says that family would spend just $3,000 on that vacation in the fall (actually less than inflation). Are we actually comparing apples to apples (or fall to fall) since Disney's change to demand based pricing?

My numbers use the median ticket and hotel prices: half the days of the year cost more and half cost less.

Disney's numbers are for the absolute lowest-cost days of the year. If I recall correctly, the week of August 25, 2025 is one of them, and they all start on weekdays in August or September.

The WSJ came back to me for comment when Disney sent that $3,000 plus food and transportation number.

I pointed out that $3K+food+transportation is still more than the $3,247 that 80% of American households are going to spend on travel in 2025 (that's BLS data + inflation).

I think my exact response was "They said that? Print that."

It's like me saying "this is mac and cheese" and them saying "Len, it's pasta avec fromage."