DVC plans to target commercial renters

[Cyberc1978]

I totally respect people having different opinions and think hearing all opinions is helpful.

Only caveat is, if you have only read this board and have not seen how out of control the issue has become on social media or with a particular third party’s confirmed listings on their website, then you don’t a full a idea of the scale of speculative confirmed rentals for maximum profit and why some people are upset.

I honestly don’t care what others do or don’t.

Why do members care about third party confirmed reservations? The owners there have the same opportunities like the rest of us. So what if they make money on the reservations.

I know there are a lot of renting going on. It’s never impacted me, as I’ve been able to book what I wanted.

I don’t see walking as a problem, again I’ve been able to get what I want.

Maybe some or a lot of people complain because they don’t get the dates or resort in the first go. Frankly, to me it’s part of the planning process and it’s started to be sort or fun when I start to book my dates.

 

[Chuck S]

Disney already knows who's doing what with their reservations and points.

I'm fine with the current setup as is, yes. Any changes that have a dampening effect on sales will be cautiously approached. The beauty of DVC is the elevator pitch is pretty much that.

I don't want DVC to become that overbearing entity like our HOA board members and nosy neighbors with their own opinion of what's appropriate or not from their lens.

OMG, have you seen the overbearing HOA Karens on YouTube?

Imagine someone filming a YouTube of an HOA-ish Deevee See (remember her?) knocking on doors asking if occuopants are Members or not,, and screaming she gonna report them.

 

[JOLT]

OMG, have you seen the overbearing HOA Karens on YouTube?

Imagine someone filming a YouTube of an HOA-ish Deevee See (remember her?) knocking on doors asking if occuopants are Members or not,, and screaming she gonna report them.

lets hire tally the elf "Naughty!!!!"

 

[Chuck S]

I totally respect people having different opinions and think hearing all opinions is helpful.

Only caveat is, if you have only read this board and have not seen how out of control the issue has become on social media or with a particular third party’s confirmed listings on their website, then you don’t a full a idea of the scale of speculative confirmed rentals for maximum profit and why some people are upset.

Yes, but you really can't judge by social media, either. If you believed everything on social media, polio is no big deal and the vaccine should be banned, enriched flour makes you sick, and we should have been destroyed by a rogue planet named Nibiru.

 

[Disfamwa]

Yes, but you really can't judge by socail media, either. If you believed everything on social media, polio is no big deal and the vaccine should be banned, enriched flour makes you sick, and we should have been destroyed by a rogue planet named Nibiru.

I would love to post the “advertisements” for spec confirmed rentals on here so we all have a very clear picture of what I’m referring to, but it’s not allowed. No one is creating fake listings for BWV standard, AKL value, and VGC AUL and VDH during low point dates over and over to spread misinformation on Facebook.

 

[Chuck S]

I would love to post the “advertisements” for spec confirmed rentals on here so we all have a very clear picture of what I’m referring to, but it’s not allowed. No one is creating fake listings for BWV standard, AKL value, and VGC AUL and VDH during low point dates over and over to spread misinformation on Facebook.

The point is the minority of overall membership (basically small point contract owners at two or three resorts) who feel slighted by "commercial" renters are just that, the vocal minority of members. Are their complaints justified...sure...but the entire membership should not have to substantialy change the rules that work for them. The rules proposed by @Brian Noble and limiting rental to 7 months out or less, would solve the issues pretty well without severely impacting other resorts or owners. But always take social media with a grain of salt.

 

[Brian Noble]

Why do members care about third party confirmed reservations?

I used to be in this camp, and mostly still am.

But there is one caveat. Someone using the system primary for rentals has very different behavior than someone using the system for personal use. That may skew use imbalance farther than it would be organically, and that has implications for the system.

I'm not sure that's enough to matter, but it could.

The biggest reason that anything will (or won't) happen is if DVD believes that spec rentals are negatively impacting the conversion rate on the sales floor. And that is a matter of customer perception---whether prospective buyers believe it is a problem---not whether or not it actually is a problem.

 

[Disfamwa]

The point is the minority of overall membership (basically small point contract owners at two resorts) who feel slighted by "commercial" renters are just that, the vocal minority of members. Are their complaints justified...sure...but the entire membership should have to substantialy change the rules that work for them. The rules proposed by @Brian Noble would solve the issues pretty well without severely impacting other resorts or owners.

I like his idea too. Combine it with instant waitlists, so commercial renters couldn’t stalk for openings in certain room categories, and I think it would go a long way to address the issue.

I also think Disney could skip all the rule changes to booking a reservation and just send warnings and threaten to ban the biggest and clearest examples of commercial renters from all the non-home resort Disney property (including the parks). They have massive leeway to do this—it doesn’t impact the offending owners properties rights and wouldn’t be bad optics like cancelling reservations would be.

I also think a lot more people would have a problem with the issue if they knew it existed—my guess is that lots of owners have felt it’s harder for them to book some rooms and dates they used to not have a big problem getting.

 

[Cyberc1978]

I used to be in this camp, and mostly still am.

But there is one caveat. Someone using the system primary for rentals has very different behavior than someone using the system for personal use. That may skew use imbalance farther than it would be organically, and that has implications for the system.

I'm not sure that's enough to matter, but it could.

The biggest reason that anything will (or won't) happen is if DVD believes that spec rentals are negatively impacting the conversion rate on the sales floor. And that is a matter of customer perception---whether prospective buyers believe it is a problem---not whether or not it actually is a problem.

You could argue that the more renters there are the more DVD can sell to new folks as they have now gotten a taste and wants to own a piece of the magic.

 

[Brian Noble]

"Why would I do that when I can keep renting for less? Renting is so easy!"

It's much harder to make a developer purchase make sense given the existence of (and current pricing in) the rental market. That's especially true for prospective buyers who are financially literate.

 

[Disfamwa]

I used to be in this camp, and mostly still am.

But there is one caveat. Someone using the system primary for rentals has very different behavior than someone using the system for personal use. That may skew use imbalance farther than it would be organically, and that has implications for the system.

I'm not sure that's enough to matter, but it could.

The biggest reason that anything will (or won't) happen is if DVD believes that spec rentals are negatively impacting the conversion rate on the sales floor. And that is a matter of customer perception---whether prospective buyers believe it is a problem---not whether or not it actually is a problem.

I believe it’s problem and let DVC know I won’t be spending money to buy VDH until they address the issue. If I spend a silly amount of money to buy there, I don’t want to compete with commercial renters for race weekends, oogie boogie adjacent reservations, and Star Wars nights because they are in low-point seasons and can make the commercial renters the most money.

 

[Brian Noble]

Also: Disney does not need guests staying in DVC resorts to generate tour flow. They have the theme parks and the other resorts for that. It's one of the reasons that they don't bother with the typical timeshare presentation incentives. They don't need to, thanks to the ready pool of tour guests.

 

[Chuck S]

I like his idea too. Combine it with instant waitlists, so commercial renters couldn’t stalk for openings in certain room categories, and I think it would go a long way to address the issue.

I also think Disney could skip all the rule changes to booking a reservation and just send warnings and threaten to ban the biggest and clearest examples of commercial renters from all the non-home resort Disney property (including the parks). They have massive leeway to do this—it doesn’t impact the offending owners properties rights and wouldn’t be bad optics like cancelling reservations would be.

I also think a lot more people would have a problem with the issue if they knew it existed—my guess is that lots of owners have felt it’s harder for them to book some rooms and dates they used to not have a big problem getting.

Bad optics? Yes, But since DVC is an ownership interest, and DVC is not legally directly related to the parks, and is a separate operating division, it would very difficult to justify park banning legally in court for the "crime" of renting renting reservations.

 

[Disfamwa]

Bad optics? Yes, But since DVC is an ownership interest, and DVC is not legally directly related to the parks, and is a separate operating division, it would very difficult to justify park banning legally in court.

You can deny entrance to private property for any reason as long as you are not discriminating against a protected class. By commercially renting DVC you are competing directly against Disney Parks division for onsite room rentals—I think that is plenty of reason to be banned from the property that the Disney parks division controls. I think it’s very similar to Disney banning private tour guides from the parks.

 

[nalababybear]

I believe it’s problem and let DVC know I won’t be spending money to buy VDH until they address the issue. If I spend a silly amount of money to buy there, I don’t want to compete with commercial renters for race weekends, oogie boogie adjacent reservations, and Star Wars nights because they are in low-point seasons and can make the commercial renters the most money.

It's not the rentors that scoop up the entire block of rooms. Everything goes. Fast. Same with the race registrations themselves.

The issue is Disney has some very popular and loyal events. Some folk get very upset when they can't get everything set when and where they want. It's a good PR problem to have instead of begging to sell tickets and rooms.

Remove all the deemed commercial renters.. you'll still be odds end outside looking in

 

[Cyberc1978]

It's not the rentors that scoop up the entire block of rooms. Everything goes. Fast. Same with the race registrations themselves.

The issue is Disney has some very popular and loyal events. Some folk get very upset when they can't get everything set when and where they want. It's a good PR problem to have instead of begging to sell tickets and rooms.

Remove all the deemed commercial renters.. you'll still be odds end outside looking in

That’s what I’m been trying to say too.

Even if mega renters and walking didn’t exist then most owners still wouldn’t get those hard to get resort view rooms (renamed today) at BWV and value rooms. Owners would soon start whining about something else.

 

[nalababybear]

That’s what I’m been trying to say too.

Even if mega renters and walking didn’t exist then most owners still wouldn’t get those hard to get resort view rooms (renamed today) at BWV and value rooms. Owners would soon start whining about something else.

Exactly. At least they are there as a popoff valve doing the work for us if we really wanted those rooms.

I can rent out my own points for nearly the same value in other dates without issue....and we have a lot of spare.points at this time while waiting for the grandkids to spoil.

Points are easily fungible at this time. Keeping it simple is one of the greatest selling points of DVC compared to other timeshares.

 

[Disfamwa]

It's not the rentors that scoop up the entire block of rooms. Everything goes. Fast. Same with the race registrations themselves.

The issue is Disney has some very popular and loyal events. Some folk get very upset when they can't get everything set when and where they want. It's a good PR problem to have instead of begging to sell tickets and rooms.

Remove all the deemed commercial renters.. you'll still be odds end outside looking in

I think the extra competition from commercial renters is meaningful and diminishes the joy I get from my DVC contract. Buying VDH direct is a lot of money upfront and continues every year with high dues and transient taxes. I want to know that if I am being beat out for reservations, it’s for a member who intends to use it for personal use (personal use includes friends and family). It may not be totally rational, but I am really bothered by people taking the most economically valuable parts of system away from other members and using them to make the greatest profit possible.

I appreciate that it doesn’t bother other people and they feel ok knowing someone would have booked the room either way, but it is stopping me from buying VDH.

 

[Sandisw]

I totally respect people having different opinions and think hearing all opinions is helpful.

Only caveat is, if you have only read this board and have not seen how out of control the issue has become on social media or with a particular third party’s confirmed listings on their website, then you don’t a full a idea of the scale of speculative confirmed rentals for maximum profit and why some people are upset.

Which means that a few things have to be evaluated by DVC.



Spec rentals may or may not be considered as commercial because a rental is a rental. Right now, they are not.

I think it’s a real possibility that the reason the board mentioned having added members to Yvonne’s team to address this goes beyond enforcement. I think it will include an update to what owners will be allowed to do when it comes to rentals.

Now, can DVC decide to say certain types of renting move to the commercial side? Maybe.

But, if we are talking about certain rooms that are rented a high% of the time over others at those resorts, then DVC should implement the plan that already exists.

It’s just whether owners of that resort would be okay with it since it comes with drawbacks.

Obviously they still need to consider things like walking and renting in general.

 

[AliceIn]

I would love to post the “advertisements” for spec confirmed rentals on here so we all have a very clear picture of what I’m referring to, but it’s not allowed. No one is creating fake listings for BWV standard, AKL value, and VGC AUL and VDH during low point dates over and over to spread misinformation on Facebook.

I know what you are talking about. I have seen where an owner is offering multiple confirmed reservations for high demand dates and/or difficult to get rooms like club level at AKV at the 11 month mark.

I am glad they are clamping down.