DVC Commercial Use Policy added to POS

[TisBit]

It's about getting the most out of your hard earned dollar by working within the rules as defined by DVC. Don't like the rules, buy some where else, but I can tell you this evey timeshare I've ever looked into has a system and just about all allow owners to rent.

Y-ASK

I think that the problem some people have is that there are people out there that are not working within the rules, or complaining that the 'rules' are prohibiting them from doing what they want.

So if DVC were to say "no more renting", would you comply, or continue to rent?

P.S. I am not making a judgement on how you use DVC, I frankly don't care, I own at SSR and no one wants to rent there anyway. Mainly because it is talked badly about on these boards....I just hope everyone doesn't decide that SSR is great!

 

[InstImpres]

Why buy all these points, to rent half? Why not buy what one can afford w/maint. fees. A bit naive, on my part since I actually bought DVC to take vacations and get away from the rat race, and not be working the system.

I am not the Original poster of this comment but here is my view. We bought in as a young married couple. We knew we would be going to Disney for many years but during the tour DVC seemed just out of reach to us. Since we were young vacation time and money were not abundent but we hoped to have both years down the road. The every other year renting was something that came up with our guide. It allowed us to buy in at a lower rate and have the vacations for many years.

Just as an aside, I am getting near mortgage burning and can't wait

 

[DBorges]

Brian said

"This paragraph is not a limitation, it is a disclosure. Its purpose is to defend against anyone wanting to sue, saying "My guide told me all the ways I could make money! They showed me how much Disney gets for their rooms, and implied I could get the same amount. I didn't, and it's all your fault!"
Today 12:15 PM "


But they did disclose it to the buys so if you do what they say not to do they can take the YOU have been warned attidue.

So yes in a sence of the speaking it is Our (members) fault for this rule to be changed or enforced.

Sometimes what you wish for is not so nice!

 

[disney54us]

It depends on your definiation of work and manipulate. I would say that "working the system" means to utilize every aspect of the system within the rules of the system. To "manipulate" in my opinion would mean to circumvent the rules and place yourself ahead of everyone else. I'm talking about "working the system" within the rules as defined by DVC and not some member of a forum.

Well if you don't get it by now, then I guess I don't know how to explain it.

Exactly!!!! It is the naive who don't work the system that complain the most when something doesn't go the way they want it to. And by the way working the system has nothing to do with the rat race. It's about getting the most out of your hard earned dollar by working within the rules as defined by DVC. Don't like the rules, buy some where else, but I can tell you this evey timeshare I've ever looked into has a system and just about all allow owners to rent.

Y-ASK

No problem with the rules, read my post. I am thrilled that DVC has decided to pursue this issue. Not complaining, it was in my paperwork ten years ago that I was suppose to be buying for vacation use not profit. Other Timeshares, really don't care about them, I bought and own DVC not others.
The rules are now defined by DVC. If it makes it harder to "work the system" so be it.
Ah there is naive and there are those, who chose not to look at everything in life from a angle. Hard earned money, my point exactly. Maybe people should buy what they can afford with there hard earned money.
Again, it doesn't seem that you fall under the definition of "commercial renter", not that I would purchase more contracts with the intention of using them as rental points. So, what is all the fuss about. One more time I will say if you are not a "commercial renter" this will have no affect on you (using the you for all members).
So instead of us worrying about what ifs, we should be dealing with what is, like how's housekeeping been lately??

 

[DBorges]

No problem with the rules, read my post. I am thrilled that DVC has decided to pursue this issue. Not complaining, it was in my paperwork ten years ago that I was suppose to be buying for vacation use not profit. Other Timeshares, really don't care about them, I bought and own DVC not others.
The rules are now defined by DVC. If it makes it harder to "work the system" so be it.
Ah there is naive and there are those, who chose not to look at everything in life from a angle. Hard earned money, my point exactly. Maybe people should buy what they can afford with there hard earned money.
Again, it doesn't seem that you fall under the definition of "commercial renter", not that I would purchase more contracts with the intention of using them as rental points. So, what is all the fuss about. One more time I will say if you are not a "commercial renter" this will have no affect on you (using the you for all members).
So instead of us worrying about what ifs, we should be dealing with what is, like how's housekeeping been lately??

WOW like a tennis match But I do agree .

The rules doesn't affect me either I use my points for myself Greed is a good thing sometimes..

 

[disney54us]

I think that the problem some people have is that there are people out there that are not working within the rules, or complaining that the 'rules' are prohibiting them from doing what they want.

So if DVC were to say "no more renting", would you comply, or continue to rent?

P.S. I am not making a judgement on how you use DVC, I frankly don't care, I own at SSR and no one wants to rent there anyway. Mainly because it is talked badly about on these boards....I just hope everyone doesn't decide that SSR is great!

and I'm sure you hope it stays that way, but hey I think there's a SSR owners fan thread.

I am not the Original poster of this comment but here is my view. We bought in as a young married couple. We knew we would be going to Disney for many years but during the tour DVC seemed just out of reach to us. Since we were young vacation time and money were not abundent but we hoped to have both years down the road. The every other year renting was something that came up with our guide. It allowed us to buy in at a lower rate and have the vacations for many years.

Just as an aside, I am getting near mortgage burning and can't wait

Get where your coming from and you didn't buy in for profit. ah the smell of those papers going up in smoke.

 

[DBorges]

Pass the marshmellows please

 

[TisBit]

and I'm sure you hope it stays that way, but hey I think there's a SSR owners fan thread.

Yes, I read it regularly, but unfortunately my email notifications aren't working (along with everyone else). The more I read, the happier I am, I am not calling day by day, not fretting cause I didn't get the dream BW/Savannah/Concierge/Value (insert whatever you want) room. Just let me plan my vacation and enjoy the World! After all, thats what we all (ok, most) bought for!

 

[sjdisneywedding]

Right from the MULTI-SITE PUBLIC OFFERING BOOK

SECTION 12 PAGE 25

12. PERSONAL USE AND ENJOYMENT

The purchase Of an Ownership Intrest should be based upon its value as a vaction experince or for spending Leisure time and, Not considered for the purposes of aquiring an appreciating ivestment or with the expectation the the ownership interest may be rented or resold

Ownership interest are offered for personal use and enjoyment onlyand should not be purchased by any prospective Purchaser for resale or as an investment oppertunity or with any expectaion of achieving rental income,capitol appreciation or any other financial return or valuable benifit including a tax benifit. Owners attempting to resell or rent their ownership interest would have to complete a t a substantial disadvanatge with DVD in the sale or rental of its Owners interest. The many restrictions unpon the use of an ownership interest may adversely affect its marketablity or rentablity.


So in a nut shell we created this problem (we as the membership) and people who are doing the renting for profit not renting the balance of points.

Are the one you should point the fingers at not the everuday member.

The creation of web site to sell rentals for PROFIT not like here on dis (he who will remain un-named) is agaist the whole purpose and the rules that we all have to deal with

I dont know, this has always been there and is merely stating

dont buy EXPECTING to make money on resale or rent

 

[Y-ASK]

So, what is all the fuss about.

No Fuss from my part . It's a very interesting discussion and sometimes I like to participate. I try to be a contributing member of this forum from time to time and not just be someone who comes here to only rent thier points.

So if DVC were to say "no more renting", would you comply, or continue to rent?

I took some time to think about it but all of my thinking was, "would I get rid of half my points", not would I go against the rules. To answer simply, Yes I would absolutely comply.

Y-ASK

 

[DBorges]

It is also the expectation of what they expect the"member " to do and disclose it before you buy and say "YOU NEVER SAID THAT"

This is a heated debate I love it but the rule is there we all have to deal with it .

Furtheremore the ones whom will be upset will be the ones it effects the most.

I for one have no worries I just do not like the idea of having People abuse it then make it harder for those not effected by this.

It is a shame that Disney just doen't stop the external site the offer this and black list certain names it is realitively simple.

If you have a select few BAR them if the own and you do not want to bar them lock up there points for a 1 year period ..

That will get them thinking twice

 

[TisBit]

To answer simply, Yes I would absolutely comply.

Y-ASK

Well, enough said!

 

[DBorges]

No Fuss from my part . It's a very interesting discussion and sometimes I like to participate. I try to be a contributing member of this forum from time to time and not just be someone who comes here to only rent thier points.


I took some time to think about it but all of my thinking was would I get rid of half my points not would I go against the rules. To answer simply, Yes I would absolutely comply.

Y-ASK

No one here is attacking anyone we are having a health debate .

The rules are there for all of our benifits and to keep DVC a worthwhile investment.

What would happen if everymember rented points the market would take a hit and dvc would lose it worth.

As it is now you see posting here "Why buy when I can rent cheaper"

But like anything else these are all opinions and conjecture.

 

[TisBit]

The rules are there for all of our benifits and to keep DVC a worthwhile investment.

What would happen if everymember rented points the market would take a hit and dvc would lose it worth.

As it is now you see posting here "Why buy when I can rent cheaper"

I never thought about it this way. It is not just about being a Disney thing, but also protecting the members. Just because every other timeshare allows rentals, doesn't mean that DVC should or shouldn't. Other timeshares are loaded with fees and hidden costs, more so then DVC by a long shot.

Even the ROFR is unique to DVC. You can always sell your contract, just might be lower than you wanted. There a LOT of timeshares that you can't even give away!

 

[rinkwide]

...its surprising why they have let these other web sites and ebay listings continue

again take some real action and stop simply diminishing the flexibility of our memberships

Their actions make perfect sense.

The purpose of anti-renting language in timeshare contracts - as Brian indicated - is to protect buyers from unscrupulous sellers who often make outrageous promises about the income potential of their products. Unfortunately for Disney, these clauses really can't be used in reverse - i.e., to protect a developer's competitive rental advantage over that of the owner's by prohibiting renting. As a result, DVD can't legally do anything to stop commercial renting. The sad part is that they can bully, badger and burden the membership until all renting becomes too much of a hassle.

I've come to the conclusion that Disney really isn't cut out for the large-scale timeshare business. Their property is simply too valuable, even for a right-to-use.

 

[DBorges]

I never thought about it this way. It is not just about being a Disney thing, but also protecting the members. Just because every other timeshare allows rentals, doesn't mean that DVC should or shouldn't. Other timeshares are loaded with fees and hidden costs, more so then DVC by a long shot.

Even the ROFR is unique to DVC. You can always sell your contract, just might be lower than you wanted. There a LOT of timeshares that you can't even give away!

I had a 100 point contract at Bcv i Hated the resort the feeling of being shuffled off to the side oh your dvc go that way(lol).

I bought it on presales and sold it for more them I paid for threw TTS .

Allthough that was not my intention the profit i made went right back into buying more points at AKV lol I gained and lost quick..

Point being It holds Its value because DISNEY is diffrent from your normal times share that gives you one week at aruba for a week the same time all the time.

 

[disney54us]

Yes, I read it regularly, but unfortunately my email notifications aren't working (along with everyone else). The more I read, the happier I am, I am not calling day by day, not fretting cause I didn't get the dream BW/Savannah/Concierge/Value (insert whatever you want) room. Just let me plan my vacation and enjoy the World! After all, thats what we all (ok, most) bought for!

I don't think anyone is getting there notifications since the 'upgrade'. I would be happy too, you think we others can do that for places we like to stay? Then no calling day by day. Last sentence, so true, so true.

 

[Brian Noble]

Even the ROFR is unique to DVC.

Not true. Marriott has it as well, as do some newer Westgate and PAHIO offerings. There are some others that have it written in to the deeds, but rarely use it---I think Starwood/Westin falls into this category.

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

Full disclosure:I have rented points before. Just in the past few years. Didn't rent any for at least the first 5 years we owned. Then my wife got pregnant through no fault of my own and we took a few years off (well maybe a little bit my fault, but I went to Catholic school and we didn't learn this stuff.) I would prefer to use all of my reservations myself. If I rent, its to friends and it's under the $10 cost here.

As an FYI for some people who may be thinking of questions of this rule, late last year I had six friends who each had their families down there at the same time. There was one day in the middle that was waitlisted for all of them. When the days in the middle came in, that brought the total to 18 reservations for those 6 families that were not in my name. I wasn't at WDW with them. I booked a few other friends in the same year and we resort hop (I was there with them-we wanted to stay at the AKV, then went to the VWL), I know that I had well over 20 reservations towards the end of last year in other people's names. I was never contacted by Disney. This was all in Nov/Dec after the letters started going out to other people from here. Maybe the fact that 18 of those were really 6, and the rest were all at WDW at the same time as me and our reservations were linked, someone from Disney looked it all over and decided there was nothing to see there?

I hope Disney stops going after the commercial renters. It seems since these letters I've heard about where there was a massive selling of accounts, etc. and now with this 20 reservation benchmark, it's getting harder and harder to make a reservation with MS. I'm talking about the same reservation I've made since I've owned at the BW since 98 at the 11 month window. Shouldn't at least some of the commercial renters that were doing all the speculative renting be gone by now?

I don't think Disney is doing this for the good of the owners. If they were concerned about the value of my timeshare, maintenance/housekeeping wouldn't be going downhill every year since I became an owner.

 

[TisBit]

Full disclosure:I have rented points before. Just in the past few years. Didn't rent any for at least the first 5 years we owned. Then my wife got pregnant through no fault of my own and we took a few years off (well maybe a little bit my fault, but I went to Catholic school and we didn't learn this stuff.)

I know what you mean, I have twins, I keep trying to find peopel that look like them and point it them out to my wife, asking "is that their father?"

As an FYI for some people who may be thinking of questions of this rule, late last year I had six friends who each had their families down there at the same time. There was one day in the middle that was waitlisted for all of them. When the days in the middle came in, that brought the total to 18 reservations for those 6 families that were not in my name. I wasn't at WDW with them. I booked a few other friends in the same year and we resort hop (I was there with them-we wanted to stay at the AKV, then went to the VWL), I know that I had well over 20 reservations towards the end of last year in other people's names. I was never contacted by Disney. This was all in Nov/Dec after the letters started going out to other people from here. Maybe the fact that 18 of those were really 6, and the rest were all at WDW at the same time as me and our reservations were linked, someone from Disney looked it all over and decided there was nothing to see there?

More than likely, similar to what we said before, if it looks like a duck its probably a duck. If you wait list for 21 days for a continous booking under the same name, that is different then 20 ressies with different names.

I hope Disney stops going after the commercial renters. It seems since these letters I've heard about where there was a massive selling of accounts, etc. and now with this 20 reservation benchmark, it's getting harder and harder to make a reservation with MS. I'm talking about the same reservation I've made since I've owned at the BW since 98 at the 11 month window. Shouldn't at least some of the commercial renters that were doing all the speculative renting be gone by now?

I don't think that is necessarily true. Many of them, including others that have been named already would continue to operate and maybe more aggressively during peak times, to get the bang for the buck. Someone will pay more for Christmas then September.

I don't think Disney is doing this for the good of the owners. If they were concerned about the value of my timeshare, maintenance/housekeeping wouldn't be going downhill every year since I became an owner.

By nature it will go down every year, it is not a true ownership, it is time sensitive, the value will decrease every year.