Disneyland Discontinues Sales of New Southern California APs Again

[Geemo]

43.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

"on the spot"

 

[ERQTraveler]

43.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

"on the spot"

TOO FUNNY!!!

I laughed out loud!

 

[cruisehopeful]

I have an AP and visit about once per month. I always buy food and more often than not, merchandise. I've purchased 4 Dooney and Bourkes this year. Having an AP has caused me to spend way more money than I would have if I didn't have one. If I only visited once or twice per year, I would have only purchased 2 purses at a maximum. Lots less on food, too.

I may be in the minority (and I don't think I am), but a large part of my day visit includes eating, drinking and window shopping. I've been on all the rides so many times over my lifetime that I honestly don't need to ride any of them ever again, yet I still enjoy spending a day at Disneyland each month.

 

[Skyegirl1999]

This ^^^ We've been socal select APs for many years. Basically they block the days we don't want to go anyways due to crowds. School holidays and weekends we are blocked which are super busy. I think the socal select passes helps act like an equalizer.

Well, this isn't true anymore. The lower-level APs often drive huge crowds at historically "off-season" times, and then a lot of times when they're blocked become the new "off-season," such as it is.

Anyway, I'm surprised that people even perceive this as a "crowd-cutting" measure - it's a profit-making measure, as is most everything Disney does, because business. It locks current SoCal pass holders into renewing so they don't "lose" their pass option, and certainly most people who wanted to buy an AP still will get a different one. It's kind of amazing for them that they can do this and have people think they're trying to cut crowds. Kudos, Disney.

Also, the AP spending varies widely. For instance, my family of three (two Signatures who visit 6-8 times per month and a Deluxe pass holder who visits 1-2 times per month) spends about $250-400 per month in the parks, usually $30-70 per visit. I have a friend who's a Signature and almost never spends money. I have a friend who has a SoCal pass, goes once a month-ish, and spends a small fortune every time she goes. I know tourists who come and blow lots of $$$, and I know tourists who come and pack PB&J and barely purchase anything.

Many AP holders are also the collectors who are there to buy every new popcorn bucket, pin, and tons of other merchandise. I would guess there's probably also a generalized correlation between the more expensive passes and the amount spent.

Anyway, I think crowd patterns at Disneyland are kind of fascinating, but I don't think temporarily pausing new purchases of this pass will actually change those crowd patterns one little bit.

 

[cruisehopeful]

Anyway, I'm surprised that people even perceive this as a "crowd-cutting" measure - it's a profit-making measure, as is most everything Disney does, because business. It locks current SoCal pass holders into renewing so they don't "lose" their pass option, and certainly most people who wanted to buy an AP still will get a different one. It's kind of amazing for them that they can do this and have people think they're trying to cut crowds. Kudos, Disney.

This. When they stopped selling these before, my daughter renewed twice when she didn't even want to because she thought if she didn't renew, she'd never be able to get that pass type again. I think she visited once each of those years because she didn't have time to visit more.

 

[cmwade77]

I doubt getting rid of the payment plans is enough. I believe they need to get rid of the unlimited annual passes all together and move to a points system. You would get an allotment of points but it wouldn't be unlimited.

Actually it would most likely result in about 30% of all passholders not renewing and when I say get rid of payment plan, I mean even for renewals. Getting rid of unlimited annual passes would be the end of Disneyland, the vast majority of people are locals, especially during the off season.

Other theme parks would also still keep their unlimited passes and could say come to us instead, we have built enough capacity to handle additional guests. Ultimately that is the problem at Disney, they haven't kept up with adding capacity at the rate they need to, otherwise it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[cmwade77]

We also know from past experience when this happened last time, more people ended up buying higher level passes, which increased crowds on days that were less busy when this level was being sold, ultimately Disney has figured they will make a higher profit by eliminating this pass level, but left themselves open to reintroducing it later.

I do think we are going to see some major changes before Star Wars Land opens though.

 

[LYSE]

The thing is if you need to cut attendance you just have to raise prices until you price enough people out, the locals are currently getting a discount and so some that may be priced out by buying the normal prices are still able to go.

If you can't add capacity you have to either price people out, or lower the quality of the product enough that less people want to go.

 

[jetskigrl]

Does reducing attendance automatically reduce earnings? We live halfway across the country but we visit family in Anaheim about three times a year. But we almost always stay away from the park because the crowds are insane. When we do go, however, we eat at the restaurants and buy souvenirs. Often spend a night in a park hotel too. Don't the local crowds spend next to nothing besides the pass itself?

Definitely not true for us (when we were passholders). While we would take some small snacks, we would eat at least one full meal in the park at each visit. Plus lots of our favorite snacks.
And I'm completely unable to walk out of the park without buying something, LOL. I love the collectibles and would generally add something new each visit (pin, vinylmation, ear hat, etc)

From Disney research

It's not that they don't eat at the restaurants and buy souvenirs it's that they spend less at restaurants and souvenirs.

I'm be really curious about the actual statistics on that one too. When we let our passes go, the price of the pass was a huge savings but I was amazed at how not visiting the parks as often has made a difference in our extra spending money/budget. We are savings hundreds each month (not including the pass prices) by not going to the parks as much.

 

[cmwade77]

The thing is if you need to cut attendance you just have to raise prices until you price enough people out, the locals are currently getting a discount and so some that may be priced out by buying the normal prices are still able to go.

If you can't add capacity you have to either price people out, or lower the quality of the product enough that less people want to go.

But they can add capacity, they have simply chosen not to do so, there is a lot of space still available. Now that the eastern gateway isn't going to happen, they could even build a new Downtown Disney there and reclaim the existing Downtown Disney for theme park expansion.

There are also unused/underutilized areas, such as the old Millionaire Building, the old Muppets Building, the remainder of the space that the Timon lot used to use, the old Tram route, the old Motorboat Lagoon area, Star Wars launch bay (can really be redone into a lot of things that could improve capacity dramatically). They could rework the hotel shuttle area and reclaim that space for theme park expansion as well. They could move TDA and utilize that space for theme park expansion. Toontown could use a major overhaul and in doing so add in some attractions that would increase capacity as well.

The list goes on and on of things that could have been done already, some could even be done very quickly, but Disney isn't doing it at this point in time and the reality is they either are going to have to do all of this and more or risk people no longer going due to prices being too high.

 

[SteveMP]

I have an AP and visit about once per month. I always buy food and more often than not, merchandise. I've purchased 4 Dooney and Bourkes this year. Having an AP has caused me to spend way more money than I would have if I didn't have one. If I only visited once or twice per year, I would have only purchased 2 purses at a maximum. Lots less on food, too.

I may be in the minority (and I don't think I am), but a large part of my day visit includes eating, drinking and window shopping. I've been on all the rides so many times over my lifetime that I honestly don't need to ride any of them ever again, yet I still enjoy spending a day at Disneyland each month.

When our APs were cheap(our first SoCal selects were around $120), we spent money like crazy everytime we went, about 3-4 days a month. we ate breakfast lunch and dinner in the parks, kids got popcorn and ice cream, bought souvenirs, pins etc. now that even the so cal select APs tripled in price we stop at Starbucks for breakfast and eat dinner outside the park. oftentimes bringing at least a couple sandwiches. Sometimes we only get the kids an ice cream or churro. Overall we spend much less annualy due to the higher cost of APs.

 

[Sergio S]

Like I said in a previous post...

I always thought that instead of an unlimited number of visits an AP can get, Disney brass should drop the black out dates and then "cap" the number of visits per year an AP can get... more of a tier system per year.

Min- 10 Visits
Low- 25
Mid - 45
High- 85
Max - 120

That would prevent or discourage APs (like myself) from going alone and spending 1-2 hours a visit.

 

[mom2rtk]

When our APs were cheap(our first SoCal selects were around $120), we spent money like crazy everytime we went, about 3-4 days a month. we ate breakfast lunch and dinner in the parks, kids got popcorn and ice cream, bought souvenirs, pins etc. now that even the so cal select APs tripled in price we stop at Starbucks for breakfast and eat dinner outside the park. oftentimes bringing at least a couple sandwiches. Sometimes we only get the kids an ice cream or churro. Overall we spend much less annualy due to the higher cost of APs.

Which explains why Disney might value the customer buying a 5 day park hopper more. It costs almost as much as the SoCal Select, customers only use the park for 5 days, and many of them come from out of town and spend more at Disney on lodging, food and souvenirs in spite of the ticket cost.

 

[SteveMP]

Which explains why Disney might value the customer buying a 5 day park hopper more. It costs almost as much as the SoCal Select, customers only use the park for 5 days, and many of them come from out of town and spend more at Disney on lodging, food and souvenirs in spite of the ticket cost.

I could see why someone could assume that. Its common in the business world to jump to conclusions based on certain statistics. Personally I would rather have a steady stream of income, from someone that came one day a week or two every week for life, rather than someone that came for 5 days once every ten years.

 

[mom2rtk]

I could see why someone could assume that. Its common in the business world to jump to conclusions based on certain statistics. Personally I would rather have a steady stream of income, from someone that came one day a week or two every week for life, rather than someone that came for 5 days once every ten years.

I actually think it varies over time. Sometimes attendance numbers are weak, and the local APs are a higher priority since Disney can mobilize them for quick results with a well placed offer or special event. But when attendance numbers are strong, and crowding becomes a negative, then the out of town visitors who come in, drop a bunch of cash in one swoop (then get out of Dodge and make room for the next batch) are a higher priority.

 

[SteveMP]

I actually think it varies over time. Sometimes attendance numbers are weak, and the local APs are a higher priority since Disney can mobilize them for quick results with a well placed offer or special event. But when attendance numbers are strong, and crowding becomes a negative, then the out of town visitors who come in, drop a bunch of cash in one swoop (then get out of Dodge and make room for the next batch) are a higher priority.

I think in the coming years we'll see more technology based implementations that will try to track your every move. Basically enhancements to their WiFi mesh, the official App, Maxpass, etc with some new technology will be able to track how often you visit, what hours you stay, if you are sitting in one spot near food place for over x minutes etc etc. We call this "business digitalization" in my line of work. Will provide much more valuable data on us than those old survey people at the front of the park.

 

[Mrs. W]

Does reducing attendance automatically reduce earnings? We live halfway across the country but we visit family in Anaheim about three times a year. But we almost always stay away from the park because the crowds are insane. When we do go, however, we eat at the restaurants and buy souvenirs. Often spend a night in a park hotel too. Don't the local crowds spend next to nothing besides the pass itself?

That’s a great question and the answer, according to Disney earnings reports, is no. I wish I could find the original source but several months ago, it was reported that Disneyland’s attendance was down nearly 2%, yet profits were up. This is due to the fact that while DLR attendance was down, guest spending was up, mainly because of higher ticket prices, but also because of higher hotel occupancy rates and successful marketing campaigns by Disney to increase park spending. Here’s an article that briefly talks about the attendance and earnings: http://amp.timeinc.net/time/money/4803153/disney-parks-crowds-univeral-studios-prices

Disneyland’s current strategy, for better or worse, works for them financially. I do think they’ll look to do more to reduce crowds in the future, because not only will this improve guest satisfaction, but they have seen that they can admit less people into the parks and still make money...more money, in fact.

 

[mommy2allyandaveri]

At this point they would have to do something really unpopular (which would be the point wouldn't it)

I say:
Get rid of all "local passes"
Get rid of all payment plans
Do not allow renewals for those that already have them.
With the new hotel, expand on site privileges including getting rid of Magic mornings in order to have EMH be more enjoyable at DL.

Then reevaluate

100% agree. Getting rid of payment plans would weed out a bunch. Personally, I think there should be no so cal pass at all. Everyone should pay the same fees, regardless of where they live.

 

[Cubbiecakes]

100% agree. Getting rid of payment plans would weed out a bunch. Personally, I think there should be no so cal pass at all. Everyone should pay the same fees, regardless of where they live.

It's not enough. I want to see the Annual Pass program just plain gone.
The last time we went to Disneyland was in 2014 and we swore we'd never go back until Disney solves its AA problem.

WDW is a lot farther away, but it's my home park now. DL is basically dead to me.

 

[cadien]

I don't think passes and resident discounts can take all the blame. And that's as a non-resident who hates crowds. I'm sure weekdays during the school year have plenty of room for everyone, even with passes. And during holidays, even three day weekends like Presidents Day, it would probably be insanely full regardless.

It would probably be better to limit the number of people admitted per day than to just keep pricing more families out.