DAS change

[StitchesGr8Fan]

The changes to DAS are not meant to be discriminating (though it seems lots of people believe they are) because the bottom line is that we are talking about a THEME PARK where people CHOOSE to go knowing there are challenges, long lines, boiling hot temperatures, sun, more sun, heat and more lines. (to name a few) ADA compliance is not meant to be a punishment and for the most part if a facility, location, business makes reasonable accessibility changes to serve the majority of people - all is good. For every given situation there will be exceptions - if it is stated that people will get a "return time" - as soon as someone posts that they were not given this - the entire internet erupts with anger. No context. No details. No proof. Our expectations of Disney are generally out of reality - Disney is a for profit business. If, let's pretend, Disney creates a system that limits occupancy of any given park on a day - or asks people to reserve in advance which park they're going to - (so they can in theory adjust staffing, etc) - people complain. When the park is crowded with not enough staff - people complain. There is a large amount of people/families who absolutely benefit from the DAS system. Unfortunately it became a widely abused system. I personally don't agree that it should be limited to Group A with such and such disability. It should, I think, be completely need based. It should be appreciated for what it is - not condoned for what it isn't. Choosing to visit a place puts the responsibility on the guest - not the for profit business.
We all need to take responsibility for ourselves - and having the gov't intervene seems rather extreme based on the fact that we choose to go to a place that has challenges.

Quoting just because this is perfectly said and needs to be read by more people. There are some things that just can not be accessible to 100% of society due to the nature of the activity and the operations that are required to run it. And a trip to Disney isn’t an entitlement, it is a luxury that even billions of non-disabled individuals will never get to visit.

 

[Evita_W]

Quoting just because this is perfectly said and needs to be read by more people. There are some things that just can not be accessible to 100% of society due to the nature of the activity and the operations that are required to run it. And a trip to Disney isn’t an entitlement, it is a luxury that even billions of non-disabled individuals will never get to visit.

I disagree to a certain extent, the business is responsible to provide reasonable accommodations and yes theme parks are a bit more unique. The issue here is Disney is now not accommodating some people at all when they used to do so. I am not referring to not get the preferred accommodation, I mean DAS vs return to queue, etc. is all semantics in how they work. What I am referring to are the people who used to be able to be acommodated, but can’t anymore. And sorry, but if you can afford it, you should be able to experience it without any additional costs in a way that meets your needs.

For example, one I read about:
The person has a young baby with a feeding tube and can end up vomiting, but also needs food at certain intervals. With the DAS, they had been able to know they would generally have say no more than a 10 minute wait when returning and could account for this and have the child have an empty stomach for that time plus the length of the ride when returning. Under the new system they end up coming in and having to wait in a 45 minute line, well the child needs food within that time frame, ends up vomiting everywhere, now not only do they have to leave the queue and inform a CM of what happened, but now that attraction’s queue has to be shut down until custodial can come and clean it up because there are bodily fluids. Please pardon me if you know this story and I got any of the details wrong, I had only read about it once, but this scenario is not uncommon.

Those with sensory issues are another great example, headphones help to a degree, but what about the person who was already using headphones and a DAS return time was what was making it doable. Also, there are other forms of sensory issues that headphones will not help with, visual, physical (twisting and turning in queues), so on and so forth. These are all issues that DAS used to assist with, but have no accommodation now, especially if you use a mobility device, as leaving the queue and returning becomes a physical impossibility in many cases.

And even if there are options, there are a lot of people that have extreme anxiety about explaining their needs at every attraction and this one has a simple solution, create a system where the person that interviews for a DAS can enter the needs in a way that makes it easy for CMs to understand and then you simply say you need accommodation, they scan your ticket, Magicband, etc. and can see instantly what you need. They may ask clarifying questions to best help you, but it would greatly reduce the stress this causes. This wouldn’t be a new accommodation, just something to make it easier to explain your needs in a way that they can understand.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

I disagree to a certain extent, the business is responsible to provide reasonable accommodations and yes theme parks are a bit more unique. The issue here is Disney is now not accommodating some people at all when they used to do so. I am not referring to not get the preferred accommodation, I mean DAS vs return to queue, etc. is all semantics in how they work. What I am referring to are the people who used to be able to be acommodated, but can’t anymore. And sorry, but if you can afford it, you should be able to experience it without any additional costs in a way that meets your needs.

For example, one I read about:
The person has a young baby with a feeding tube and can end up vomiting, but also needs food at certain intervals. With the DAS, they had been able to know they would generally have say no more than a 10 minute wait when returning and could account for this and have the child have an empty stomach for that time plus the length of the ride when returning. Under the new system they end up coming in and having to wait in a 45 minute line, well the child needs food within that time frame, ends up vomiting everywhere, now not only do they have to leave the queue and inform a CM of what happened, but now that attraction’s queue has to be shut down until custodial can come and clean it up because there are bodily fluids. Please pardon me if you know this story and I got any of the details wrong, I had only read about it once, but this scenario is not uncommon.

Those with sensory issues are another great example, headphones help to a degree, but what about the person who was already using headphones and a DAS return time was what was making it doable. Also, there are other forms of sensory issues that headphones will not help with, visual, physical (twisting and turning in queues), so on and so forth. These are all issues that DAS used to assist with, but have no accommodation now, especially if you use a mobility device, as leaving the queue and returning becomes a physical impossibility in many cases.

And even if there are options, there are a lot of people that have extreme anxiety about explaining their needs at every attraction and this one has a simple solution, create a system where the person that interviews for a DAS can enter the needs in a way that makes it easy for CMs to understand and then you simply say you need accommodation, they scan your ticket, Magicband, etc. and can see instantly what you need. They may ask clarifying questions to best help you, but it would greatly reduce the stress this causes. This wouldn’t be a new accommodation, just something to make it easier to explain your needs in a way that they can understand.

I am not qualified to say how common “a young baby with a feeding tube” is, but:
a) young babies don’t go on that many rides, and frankly any rides they do go on is for the parents’ enjoyment, not their own
b) did they try saying to the CM “we can only wait in this line for X minutes (because we have to tube feed the baby in X minutes), how can we be accommodated?"
c) if said young baby had to be fed in the next 15 minutes, why not feed the baby first and THEN enter the line?

Disney has made it extremely easy to get accommodations. No need to explain yourself. Just tell the CM that there is a reason why you can’t enter the line - or stay in the line - and ask how to rejoin your party. They aren’t expecting your life story. You will probably be asked if you can join and exit, and if the answer is no then they will make other arrangements. The point is that they want people to at least try. Now if none of you or your 25 nearest and dearest can enter the line that might be a different matter, but most stories have been quite positive of people who have tried the new system.

Also for all of the fears about people not being able to exit with mobility devices, I sure haven’t heard a lot of stories of people actually having problems exiting lines.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I disagree to a certain extent, the business is responsible to provide reasonable accommodations and yes theme parks are a bit more unique. The issue here is Disney is now not accommodating some people at all when they used to do so. I am not referring to not get the preferred accommodation, I mean DAS vs return to queue, etc. is all semantics in how they work. What I am referring to are the people who used to be able to be acommodated, but can’t anymore. And sorry, but if you can afford it, you should be able to experience it without any additional costs in a way that meets your needs.

For example, one I read about:
The person has a young baby with a feeding tube and can end up vomiting, but also needs food at certain intervals. With the DAS, they had been able to know they would generally have say no more than a 10 minute wait when returning and could account for this and have the child have an empty stomach for that time plus the length of the ride when returning. Under the new system they end up coming in and having to wait in a 45 minute line, well the child needs food within that time frame, ends up vomiting everywhere, now not only do they have to leave the queue and inform a CM of what happened, but now that attraction’s queue has to be shut down until custodial can come and clean it up because there are bodily fluids. Please pardon me if you know this story and I got any of the details wrong, I had only read about it once, but this scenario is not uncommon.

Those with sensory issues are another great example, headphones help to a degree, but what about the person who was already using headphones and a DAS return time was what was making it doable. Also, there are other forms of sensory issues that headphones will not help with, visual, physical (twisting and turning in queues), so on and so forth. These are all issues that DAS used to assist with, but have no accommodation now, especially if you use a mobility device, as leaving the queue and returning becomes a physical impossibility in many cases.

And even if there are options, there are a lot of people that have extreme anxiety about explaining their needs at every attraction and this one has a simple solution, create a system where the person that interviews for a DAS can enter the needs in a way that makes it easy for CMs to understand and then you simply say you need accommodation, they scan your ticket, Magicband, etc. and can see instantly what you need. They may ask clarifying questions to best help you, but it would greatly reduce the stress this causes. This wouldn’t be a new accommodation, just something to make it easier to explain your needs in a way that they can understand.

1. I doubt the story you recount is all that common
2. Different accommodations is not the same as no accommodations
3. Sensory issues can be met with waiting outside the line and meeting the party at the merge
4. There is no need to explain needs at every ride

 

[jennab]

I disagree to a certain extent, the business is responsible to provide reasonable accommodations and yes theme parks are a bit more unique. The issue here is Disney is now not accommodating some people at all when they used to do so. I am not referring to not get the preferred accommodation, I mean DAS vs return to queue, etc. is all semantics in how they work. What I am referring to are the people who used to be able to be acommodated, but can’t anymore. And sorry, but if you can afford it, you should be able to experience it without any additional costs in a way that meets your needs.

For example, one I read about:
The person has a young baby with a feeding tube and can end up vomiting, but also needs food at certain intervals. With the DAS, they had been able to know they would generally have say no more than a 10 minute wait when returning and could account for this and have the child have an empty stomach for that time plus the length of the ride when returning. Under the new system they end up coming in and having to wait in a 45 minute line, well the child needs food within that time frame, ends up vomiting everywhere, now not only do they have to leave the queue and inform a CM of what happened, but now that attraction’s queue has to be shut down until custodial can come and clean it up because there are bodily fluids. Please pardon me if you know this story and I got any of the details wrong, I had only read about it once, but this scenario is not uncommon.

Those with sensory issues are another great example, headphones help to a degree, but what about the person who was already using headphones and a DAS return time was what was making it doable. Also, there are other forms of sensory issues that headphones will not help with, visual, physical (twisting and turning in queues), so on and so forth. These are all issues that DAS used to assist with, but have no accommodation now, especially if you use a mobility device, as leaving the queue and returning becomes a physical impossibility in many cases.

And even if there are options, there are a lot of people that have extreme anxiety about explaining their needs at every attraction and this one has a simple solution, create a system where the person that interviews for a DAS can enter the needs in a way that makes it easy for CMs to understand and then you simply say you need accommodation, they scan your ticket, Magicband, etc. and can see instantly what you need. They may ask clarifying questions to best help you, but it would greatly reduce the stress this causes. This wouldn’t be a new accommodation, just something to make it easier to explain your needs in a way that they can understand.

People are being accommodated, they just know there is a better option and prefer it. If someone didn’t know about DAS, or it didn’t exist, what would people do? Also, in the past we’ve had DAS lines be longer than 10min. Take into consideration the ride time as well it will definitely be much longer.

There is an option to wait outside the line and join the rest of the party at the merge point (through the LL), then ride together.

 

[ShaneDJ]

The issue here is Disney is now not accommodating some people at all when they used to do so. I am not referring to not get the preferred accommodation

For example, one I read about:

The person has a young baby with a feeding tube and can end up vomiting, but also needs food at certain intervals.
With the DAS, they had been able to know they would generally have say no more than a 10 minute wait

Even with DAS, some lines were much longer than 10 minutes (because there were simply too many DAS users). Even the super expensive "VIP tour" does NOT guarantee that short of a wait.

C'mon now.

"Disney is now not accommodating some people at all" is an absolutely false statement, and you know that.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

I disagree to a certain extent, the business is responsible to provide reasonable accommodations and yes theme parks are a bit more unique. The issue here is Disney is now not accommodating some people at all when they used to do so. I am not referring to not get the preferred accommodation, I mean DAS vs return to queue, etc. is all semantics in how they work. What I am referring to are the people who used to be able to be acommodated, but can’t anymore. And sorry, but if you can afford it, you should be able to experience it without any additional costs in a way that meets your needs.

For example, one I read about:
The person has a young baby with a feeding tube and can end up vomiting, but also needs food at certain intervals. With the DAS, they had been able to know they would generally have say no more than a 10 minute wait when returning and could account for this and have the child have an empty stomach for that time plus the length of the ride when returning. Under the new system they end up coming in and having to wait in a 45 minute line, well the child needs food within that time frame, ends up vomiting everywhere, now not only do they have to leave the queue and inform a CM of what happened, but now that attraction’s queue has to be shut down until custodial can come and clean it up because there are bodily fluids. Please pardon me if you know this story and I got any of the details wrong, I had only read about it once, but this scenario is not uncommon.

Those with sensory issues are another great example, headphones help to a degree, but what about the person who was already using headphones and a DAS return time was what was making it doable. Also, there are other forms of sensory issues that headphones will not help with, visual, physical (twisting and turning in queues), so on and so forth. These are all issues that DAS used to assist with, but have no accommodation now, especially if you use a mobility device, as leaving the queue and returning becomes a physical impossibility in many cases.

And even if there are options, there are a lot of people that have extreme anxiety about explaining their needs at every attraction and this one has a simple solution, create a system where the person that interviews for a DAS can enter the needs in a way that makes it easy for CMs to understand and then you simply say you need accommodation, they scan your ticket, Magicband, etc. and can see instantly what you need. They may ask clarifying questions to best help you, but it would greatly reduce the stress this causes. This wouldn’t be a new accommodation, just something to make it easier to explain your needs in a way that they can understand.

Before they over accommodated too many people to the point it diluted the value of the accommodation and negatively impacted their operation.

 

[jppeek]

I wonder if they could have fixed the problem by simply removing the two pre arrival fast passes they gave people and making the cooldown period 20 minutes from when you scan in to when you can get in the next virtual line (which is about the time it takes between the loading, riding a ride and then the walk to the next ride)

Feel like this would have still been helpful enough for the people who truly need it, but not enough of a benefit for (most) people who didn’t truly need it and were just abusing.

 

[CAPSLOCK]

I think there were too many people legitimately using it for that to make enough difference. That would have helped some, and limiting party size also. But they were wanting a larger reduction which no amount of self-choice would accomplish.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I think there were too many people legitimately using it for that to make enough difference. That would have helped some, and limiting party size also. But they were wanting a larger reduction which no amount of self-choice would accomplish.

I somewhat agree...if you define "legitimately" as having received under the terms that Disney used to allow, then yes. If instead you define "legitimately" as actually needing it, as in no other accommodation would work v. wanting it, then no.

 

[CAPSLOCK]

if you define "legitimately" as having received under the terms that Disney used to allow, then yes.

Yes, this is what I meant. Based on the premise from @jppeek that tweaking the system itself would have fixed the problem without adjusting who qualified.

 

[Goldelpack]

I disagree to a certain extent, the business is responsible to provide reasonable accommodations and yes theme parks are a bit more unique. The issue here is Disney is now not accommodating some people at all when they used to do so. I am not referring to not get the preferred accommodation, I mean DAS vs return to queue, etc. is all semantics in how they work. What I am referring to are the people who used to be able to be acommodated, but can’t anymore. And sorry, but if you can afford it, you should be able to experience it without any additional costs in a way that meets your needs.

For example, one I read about:
The person has a young baby with a feeding tube and can end up vomiting, but also needs food at certain intervals. With the DAS, they had been able to know they would generally have say no more than a 10 minute wait when returning and could account for this and have the child have an empty stomach for that time plus the length of the ride when returning. Under the new system they end up coming in and having to wait in a 45 minute line, well the child needs food within that time frame, ends up vomiting everywhere, now not only do they have to leave the queue and inform a CM of what happened, but now that attraction’s queue has to be shut down until custodial can come and clean it up because there are bodily fluids. Please pardon me if you know this story and I got any of the details wrong, I had only read about it once, but this scenario is not uncommon.

Those with sensory issues are another great example, headphones help to a degree, but what about the person who was already using headphones and a DAS return time was what was making it doable. Also, there are other forms of sensory issues that headphones will not help with, visual, physical (twisting and turning in queues), so on and so forth. These are all issues that DAS used to assist with, but have no accommodation now, especially if you use a mobility device, as leaving the queue and returning becomes a physical impossibility in many cases.

And even if there are options, there are a lot of people that have extreme anxiety about explaining their needs at every attraction and this one has a simple solution, create a system where the person that interviews for a DAS can enter the needs in a way that makes it easy for CMs to understand and then you simply say you need accommodation, they scan your ticket, Magicband, etc. and can see instantly what you need. They may ask clarifying questions to best help you, but it would greatly reduce the stress this causes. This wouldn’t be a new accommodation, just something to make it easier to explain your needs in a way that they can understand.

While each situation described is a definite challenge for the people involved, it simply isn't the responsibility of the "host" to make extra-ordinary allowances, accommodations, changes, or individualized plans. Every guest to every Disney park or location is aware of the potential challenges. For people that can not wait on long lines, in the sun, on their feet, without eating, visiting a restroom, or any other reason - the mere fact that DAS once accommodated their needs does not in any way insure it ever would become a permanent solution nor is it something that anyone should feel is their earned right to have. I want to stress that I'm not in anyway minimizing any challenge that people have - they are legitimate and often restricting to people's ability to do this or that. But Disney (and any other company) is not responsible for, liable legally to do any specific thing (besides normal ADA requirements) for individuals.
Virtually everyone has some challenges when it comes to visiting Disney parks. It is not incumbent on Disney to adapt for them.

 

[OurBigTrip]

While each situation described is a definite challenge for the people involved, it simply isn't the responsibility of the "host" to make extra-ordinary allowances, accommodations, changes, or individualized plans. Every guest to every Disney park or location is aware of the potential challenges. For people that can not wait on long lines, in the sun, on their feet, without eating, visiting a restroom, or any other reason - the mere fact that DAS once accommodated their needs does not in any way insure it ever would become a permanent solution nor is it something that anyone should feel is their earned right to have. I want to stress that I'm not in anyway minimizing any challenge that people have - they are legitimate and often restricting to people's ability to do this or that. But Disney (and any other company) is not responsible for, liable legally to do any specific thing (besides normal ADA requirements) for individuals.
Virtually everyone has some challenges when it comes to visiting Disney parks. It is not incumbent on Disney to adapt for them.

To a reasonable degree, it is up to Disney to adapt for them - that's per the ADA.

However, there are things that are out of Disney's control, such as heat, crowds, etc. They can make accommodations to a certain degree for heat, for example, but they certainly can't and shouldn't let everyone with a heat-exacerbated disability have a DAS. I mean, it's hot all over the park, not just in the lines.

 

[traveler9]

To a reasonable degree, it is up to Disney to adapt for them - that's per the ADA.

However, there are things that are out of Disney's control, such as heat, crowds, etc. They can make accommodations to a certain degree for heat, for example, but they certainly can't and shouldn't let everyone with a heat-exacerbated disability have a DAS. I mean, it's hot all over the park, not just in the lines.

As far as heat - maybe don’t come during one of the hottest months of the year? Some people need to make better decisions about when to come and not expect WDW to bend over backward to accommodate their decision to come in July or August…

 

[jo-jo]

Also for all of the fears about people not being able to exit with mobility devices, I sure haven’t heard a lot of stories of people actually having problems exiting lines.

Have you heard any stories of people saying, I needed to leave line, this is how I did it?

I haven’t heard of either and wish someone would tell us how they managed.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

Have you heard any stories of people saying, I needed to leave line, this is how I did it?

I haven’t heard of either and wish someone would tell us how they managed.

I have heard of people exiting out the sides, or at the ends when lines loop around. Others have been able to flag down CMs and exit perpendicular to the lines. With a bit of self-awareness and advanced planning (eg. I feel like I will need to exit, let me take advantage of the turn up there to do so) it doesn’t seem too daunting of a task.

 

[jo-jo]

I have heard of people exiting out the sides, or at the ends when lines loop around. Others have been able to flag down CMs and exit perpendicular to the lines. With a bit of self-awareness and advanced planning (eg. I feel like I will need to exit, let me take advantage of the turn up there to do so) it doesn’t seem too daunting of a task.

Have you heard of any while using an EVC?

 

[Evita_W]

I am not qualified to say how common “a young baby with a feeding tube” is, but:
a) young babies don’t go on that many rides, and frankly any rides they do go on is for the parents’ enjoyment, not their own
b) did they try saying to the CM “we can only wait in this line for X minutes (because we have to tube feed the baby in X minutes), how can we be accommodated?"
c) if said young baby had to be fed in the next 15 minutes, why not feed the baby first and THEN enter the line?

Disney has made it extremely easy to get accommodations. No need to explain yourself. Just tell the CM that there is a reason why you can’t enter the line - or stay in the line - and ask how to rejoin your party. They aren’t expecting your life story. You will probably be asked if you can join and exit, and if the answer is no then they will make other arrangements. The point is that they want people to at least try. Now if none of you or your 25 nearest and dearest can enter the line that might be a different matter, but most stories have been quite positive of people who have tried the new system.

Also for all of the fears about people not being able to exit with mobility devices, I sure haven’t heard a lot of stories of people actually having problems exiting lines.

The feeding tube was one example and every 15 minutes, what about a line that is 60 minutes long? Doesn’t work there.

 

[Evita_W]

I wonder if they could have fixed the problem by simply removing the two pre arrival fast passes they gave people and making the cooldown period 20 minutes from when you scan in to when you can get in the next virtual line (which is about the time it takes between the loading, riding a ride and then the walk to the next ride)

Feel like this would have still been helpful enough for the people who truly need it, but not enough of a benefit for (most) people who didn’t truly need it and were just abusing.

I would also add in making the DAS only valid for attractions where the issue could occur. For example, if you have sun sensitivity (just go with me and say it would qualify for this example, as it is the easiest to explain in a post), then make it where that person’s DAS is not valid at the attractions that have queues that are completely indoors. Additionally, if there are other medical needs that prevent the person from being able to safely ride certain attractions, make sure their DAS is not valid for those attractions. It really would prevent people from getting return times where not needed, added to your suggestions it likely would do the trick.

 

[Evita_W]

1. I doubt the story you recount is all that common
2. Different accommodations is not the same as no accommodations
3. Sensory issues can be met with waiting outside the line and meeting the party at the merge
4. There is no need to explain needs at every ride

1. The story I recounted does happen though and it is something that was previously accommodated, but is not at present, especially if say a single parent with two or three kids under 7.
2. I agree with you there, but there are cases where there are no accommodations and that is the part where the problem is.
3. Perhaps, but what happens when 3 out of four members of your party have sensory issues? What about if you are by yourself? Also, why should they have to wait by themselves while parties without various needs are able to all wait together and spend time together? But even leaving the last part of that out, there are other cases where that doesn’t work.
4. If you don’t explain at every ride, how do you get accommodations at each ride when you already know every queue will set off your issues?

I am not saying nothing should have been done, but I am saying this has gone too far the other way and is indeed preventing certain people from being accommodated in any way.