"Black Lives Matter" - it's stupid. Just cut the crap.....

[Gumbo4x4]

Any person whose response to BLM is that ALL lives matter really don't get it... No argument will make them understand.

Way to further the conversation.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Here are five key statistics you need to know about cops killing blacks.

1. Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015. According to data compiled by The Washington Post, 50 percent of the victims of fatal police shootings were white, while 26 percent were black. The majority of these victims had a gun or "were armed or otherwise threatening the officer with potentially lethal force," according to MacDonald in a speech at Hillsdale College.

Some may argue that these statistics are evidence of racist treatment toward blacks, since whites consist of 62 percent of the population and blacks make up 12 percent of the population. But as MacDonald writes in The Wall Street Journal, 2009 statistics from the Bureau of Justice Statistics reveal that blacks were charged with 62 percent of robberies, 57 percent of murders and 45 percent of assaults in the 75 biggest counties in the country, despite only comprising roughly 15 percent of the population in these counties.

"Such a concentration of criminal violence in minority communities means that officers will be disproportionately confronting armed and often resisting suspects in those communities, raising officers’ own risk of using lethal force," writes MacDonald.

MacDonald also pointed out in her Hillsdale speech that blacks "commit 75 percent of all shootings, 70 percent of all robberies, and 66 percent of all violent crime" in New York City, even though they consist of 23 percent of the city's population.

"The black violent crime rate would actually predict that more than 26 percent of police victims would be black," MacDonald said. "Officer use of force will occur where the police interact most often with violent criminals, armed suspects, and those resisting arrest, and that is in black neighborhoods."

2. More whites and Hispanics die from police homicides than blacks. According to MacDonald, 12 percent of white and Hispanic homicide deaths were due to police officers, while only four percent of black homicide deaths were the result of police officers.

"If we’re going to have a 'Lives Matter' anti-police movement, it would be more appropriately named "White and Hispanic Lives Matter,'" said MacDonald in her Hillsdale speech.

3. The Post's data does show that unarmed black men are more likely to die by the gun of a cop than an unarmed white man...but this does not tell the whole story. In August 2015, the ratio was seven-to-one of unarmed black men dying from police gunshots compared to unarmed white men; the ratio was six-to-one by the end of 2015. But MacDonald points out in The Marshall Project that looking at the details of the actual incidents that occurred paints a different picture:

The “unarmed” label is literally accurate, but it frequently fails to convey highly-charged policing situations. In a number of cases, if the victim ended up being unarmed, it was certainly not for lack of trying. At least five black victims had reportedly tried to grab the officer’s gun, or had been beating the cop with his own equipment. Some were shot from an accidental discharge triggered by their own assault on the officer. And two individuals included in the Post’s “unarmed black victims” category were struck by stray bullets aimed at someone else in justified cop shootings. If the victims were not the intended targets, then racism could have played no role in their deaths.

In one of those unintended cases, an undercover cop from the New York Police Department was conducting a gun sting in Mount Vernon, just north of New York City. One of the gun traffickers jumped into the cop’s car, stuck a pistol to his head, grabbed $2,400 and fled. The officer gave chase and opened fire after the thief again pointed his gun at him. Two of the officer’s bullets accidentally hit a 61-year-old bystander, killing him. That older man happened to be black, but his race had nothing to do with his tragic death. In the other collateral damage case, Virginia Beach, Virginia, officers approached a car parked at a convenience store that had a homicide suspect in the passenger seat. The suspect opened fire, sending a bullet through an officer’s shirt. The cops returned fire, killing their assailant as well as a woman in the driver’s seat. That woman entered the Post’s database without qualification as an “unarmed black victim” of police fire.

MacDonald examines a number of other instances, including unarmed black men in San Diego, CA and Prince George's County, MD attempting to reach for a gun in a police officer's holster. In the San Diego case, the unarmed black man actually "jumped the officer" and assaulted him, and the cop shot the man since he was "fearing for his life." MacDonald also notes that there was an instance in 2015 where "three officers were killed with their own guns, which the suspects had wrestled from them."

4. Black and Hispanic police officers are more likely to fire a gun at blacks than white officers. This is according to a Department of Justice report in 2015 about the Philadelphia Police Department, and is further confirmed that by a study conducted University of Pennsylvania criminologist Gary Ridgeway in 2015 that determined black cops were 3.3 times more likely to fire a gun than other cops at a crime scene.

5. Blacks are more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops. This is according to FBI data, which also found that 40 percent of cop killers are black. According to MacDonald, the police officer is 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black than a cop killing an unarmed black person.

Despite the facts, the anti-police rhetoric of Black Lives Matter and their leftist sympathizers have resulted in what MacDonald calls the "Ferguson Effect," as murders have spiked by 17 percent among the 50 biggest cities in the U.S. as a result of cops being more reluctant to police neighborhoods out of fear of being labeled as racists. Additionally, there have been over twice as many cops victimized by fatal shootings in the first three months of 2016.

Anti-police rhetoric has deadly consequences.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler

Facts, shmacts!

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Serious question:

Do black officers shoot black civilians at a lower rate than white officers?

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Serious question:

Do black officers shoot black civilians at a lower rate than white officers?

No. Opposite. See @mummabear's last post, #3.

 

[usd2bmd]

Yes there is black on black crime, yes there is white on white crime. #blacklivesmatter arose out of a an inordinate amount of young African Americans dying at the hands of police. There is an invisible too at the end of that hashtag. Nobody is saying all live don't matter. They just want you to remember ALL OF THEM. This is a societal problem. We will need to come together as a society to fix it.

 

[asta]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/in...f-reckoning-police-fatally-shoot-nearly-1000/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/04/11/thousands-dead-few-prosecuted/

Thanks for the links. The first link has a video of a white man being tasered and finally shot dead after being chased for expired tags. It has comments from a grieving sister. What I don't understand is the media (as in CNN, MSNBC) totally ignored this. No outrage, no showing at least once every hour. But look how many times they give extensive coverage of police action against blacks. They have a not so subtle agenda.

 

[mummabear]

I see Blue Lives Matter being used because many see them as being under siege and want to show their support. Some people believe in both slogans.

I think it is pointing out the very real fact that a cop is 18x more likely to be shot than to be the shooter.
I think it's saying "Hey if you are outraged about this (the shooting by police of unarmed black people) why arent you also concerned about this (the cops being shot at a much higher rate). Why are people having to pick a side?

 

[mummabear]

Any person whose response to BLM is that ALL lives matter really don't get it... No argument will make them understand.

I don't think peopel are saying Black lives don't matter, they are saying of course they matter, but the examples the BLM movement is giving as showing that they don't matter isnt supported by the facts.

I wouldnt want to be a cop these days.

 

[cabanafrau]

Yes there is black on black crime, yes there is white on white crime. #blacklivesmatter arose out of a an inordinate amount of young African Americans dying at the hands of police. There is an invisible too at the end of that hashtag. Nobody is saying all live don't matter. They just want you to remember ALL OF THEM. This is a societal problem. We will need to come together as a society to fix it.

If the goal is coming together to tackle the problem, it's particularly unhelpful to raise the premise on the basis of a construct that inherently creates an us versus them mindset. Police misuse of authority is something everyone should be concerned about. It certainly won't be solved with the execution of random police officers based on the fact they're wearing a uniform and appear to be Caucasian. That's not a gain for anyone. This isn't a fire that's going to be doused with hate.

 

[ChrisFL]

black ex-cop's thoughts about race and policing:

http://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8661977/race-police-officer

 

[cabanafrau]

I don't know. I think many understand quite well and just want to play dumb about it because their real opinion sounds bad. It's really not that hard to understand the concept behind black lives matter. All the rest is just a debate about whether one agrees with the sentiments behind it or not. Of course people want to ignore the sentiments behind it for a variety of reasons so they just pretend to not understand or misunderstand it.

Or maybe some of us think it's dumb to claim to want to bring everyone together but do so under a banner that starts off dividing everyone. If the successful resolution is truly to bring everyone together in a consensus where our duly sworn police officers act in the best interest of the citizens they're sworn to protect, all of them, maybe it's a smart idea to construct a tent that pulls everyone in together in the first place.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Or maybe some of us think it's dumb to claim to want to bring everyone together but do so under a banner that starts off dividing everyone. If the successful resolution is truly to bring everyone together in a consensus where our duly sworn police officers act in the best interest of the citizens they're sworn to protect, all of them, maybe it's a smart idea to construct a tent that pulls everyone in together in the first place.

Maybe but responding with blue lives matter doesn't accomplish that.
If you really think saying black lives matter only divides people by separation, doesn't blue lives matter do the same thing?
Shouldn't blue lives matter receive the same criticism for creating a separate?

 

[cabanafrau]

Maybe but responding with blue lives matter doesn't accomplish that.
If you really think saying black lives matter only divides people by separation, doesn't blue lives matter do the same thing?
Shouldn't blue lives matter receive the same criticism for creating a separate?

Perhaps you haven't read my previous comments about that. I believe my first one may be on page one of this very thread. I have no patience for Blue Lives Matter or any of that nonsense. That particular ideology leaves plenty of room for the outliers to hide. Not a good idea. Rogue cops need to be stopped, period, not covered for with some brotherhood nonsense and allowed to go on their merry way. Same thing with Black Lives Matter attempting to make a Sunday School teacher out of every black person who dies in a police confrontation. Everybody gets the same respect and the same responsibilities, end of story.

 

[Disn3yVision]

When people raise money for cancer nobody gets pissed off and says #alldiseasesmatter. When people say #cancerstrong nobody says well you are discriminating against #multiplesclerosisstrong. Why is that? Saying there are OTHER problems has nothing to do with the problem being discussed, its completely irrelevant. There are "more important" issues than homelessness but does that mean we shouldn't address, acknowledge, and work on improving and solving that issue? My mom saves dogs, should I tell her that all animals need saving and its not fair for her to concentrate on dogs (specifically rottweilers in her case). Should I tell her stop talking about saving rotties, lets save cute little kittens because they need saving too? PP's are right, if you are saying #alllivesmatter you are part of the problem. YOU are being separatist. YOU are being divisionist. By pitting one issue against other ones. By citing one race against other ones. Black lives matter has NOTHING to do with other races. You are making it about that. Black lives matter has to do with addressing and acknowledging a problem THAT EXISTS and saying all lives matter is doing just the opposite. We all know that all lives matter. Duh. Add something valuable to the conversation... and its a conversation that needs to be had so stop trying to avoid/ignore by deflecting to other, non related issues. We focus on gay rights, women's rights, animal rights.... but god forbid we focus on a black mans right to live. After all... that would be racist right?

 

[Disn3yVision]

If the goal is coming together to tackle the problem, it's particularly unhelpful to raise the premise on the basis of a construct that inherently creates an us versus them mindset. Or maybe some of us think it's dumb to claim to want to bring everyone together but do so under a banner that starts off dividing everyone. If the successful resolution is truly to bring everyone together in a consensus where our duly sworn police officers act in the best interest of the citizens they're sworn to protect, all of them, maybe it's a smart idea to construct a tent that pulls everyone in together in the first place.

How does #blacklivesmatter create an "inherent" us versus them mindset???? If you are saying Red is my favorite color does that mean you dislike all the other colors? YOU are making it as versus them mindset!!! YOU are doing that. Just curious, but who is the us versus them in your example? Blacks vs whites? Or blacks vs police? Or blacks vs the rich? EXACTLY. Its not blacks VERSUS anybody. It about blacks being treated the same as EVERYBODY. It is about all lives matter. They are begging for all lives to matter, black lives included. That is the entire point. You see black lives matter and want to read #ONLYblacklives matter, when really the movement is really saying #EVENblacklivesmatter. Would you make an argument that if somebody said even a hot dog is food that was discriminatory? Does that create an us vs them mindset versus all other food?

 

[sunshinehighway]

When people raise money for cancer nobody gets pissed off and says #alldiseasesmatter. When people say #cancerstrong nobody says well you are discriminating against #multiplesclerosisstrong. Why is that? Saying there are OTHER problems has nothing to do with the problem being discussed, its completely irrelevant. There are "more important" issues than homelessness but does that mean we shouldn't address, acknowledge, and work on improving and solving that issue? My mom saves dogs, should I tell her that all animals need saving and its not fair for her to concentrate on dogs (specifically rottweilers in her case). Should I tell her stop talking about saving rotties, lets save cute little kittens because they need saving too? PP's are right, if you are saying #alllivesmatter you are part of the problem. YOU are being separatist. You are being divisionist. By pitting one issue against other ones. By citing one race against other ones. Black lives matter has NOTHING to do with other races. You are making it about that. Black lives matter has to do with addressing and acknowledging a problem THAT EXISTS and saying all lives matter is doing just the opposite. We all know that all lives matter. Duh. Add something valuable to the conversation... and its a conversation that needs to be had so stop trying to avoid/ignore by deflecting to other, non related issues. We focus on gay rights, women's rights, animal rights.... but god forbid we focus on a black mans right to live. After all... that would be racist right?

 

[TLSnell1981]

Because white lives already matter. It's black lives that currently systemically don't.

I couldn't disagree more with this statement

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I say #factsmatter. Some key ones are in the post below. And many of the premises of BLM are directly contradicted by facts. That matters to me.

Here are five key statistics you need to know about cops killing blacks.

1. Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015. According to data compiled by The Washington Post, 50 percent of the victims of fatal police shootings were white, while 26 percent were black. The majority of these victims had a gun or "were armed or otherwise threatening the officer with potentially lethal force," according to MacDonald in a speech at Hillsdale College.

Some may argue that these statistics are evidence of racist treatment toward blacks, since whites consist of 62 percent of the population and blacks make up 12 percent of the population. But as MacDonald writes in The Wall Street Journal, 2009 statistics from the Bureau of Justice Statistics reveal that blacks were charged with 62 percent of robberies, 57 percent of murders and 45 percent of assaults in the 75 biggest counties in the country, despite only comprising roughly 15 percent of the population in these counties.

"Such a concentration of criminal violence in minority communities means that officers will be disproportionately confronting armed and often resisting suspects in those communities, raising officers’ own risk of using lethal force," writes MacDonald.

MacDonald also pointed out in her Hillsdale speech that blacks "commit 75 percent of all shootings, 70 percent of all robberies, and 66 percent of all violent crime" in New York City, even though they consist of 23 percent of the city's population.

"The black violent crime rate would actually predict that more than 26 percent of police victims would be black," MacDonald said. "Officer use of force will occur where the police interact most often with violent criminals, armed suspects, and those resisting arrest, and that is in black neighborhoods."

2. More whites and Hispanics die from police homicides than blacks. According to MacDonald, 12 percent of white and Hispanic homicide deaths were due to police officers, while only four percent of black homicide deaths were the result of police officers.

"If we’re going to have a 'Lives Matter' anti-police movement, it would be more appropriately named "White and Hispanic Lives Matter,'" said MacDonald in her Hillsdale speech.

3. The Post's data does show that unarmed black men are more likely to die by the gun of a cop than an unarmed white man...but this does not tell the whole story. In August 2015, the ratio was seven-to-one of unarmed black men dying from police gunshots compared to unarmed white men; the ratio was six-to-one by the end of 2015. But MacDonald points out in The Marshall Project that looking at the details of the actual incidents that occurred paints a different picture:

The “unarmed” label is literally accurate, but it frequently fails to convey highly-charged policing situations. In a number of cases, if the victim ended up being unarmed, it was certainly not for lack of trying. At least five black victims had reportedly tried to grab the officer’s gun, or had been beating the cop with his own equipment. Some were shot from an accidental discharge triggered by their own assault on the officer. And two individuals included in the Post’s “unarmed black victims” category were struck by stray bullets aimed at someone else in justified cop shootings. If the victims were not the intended targets, then racism could have played no role in their deaths.

In one of those unintended cases, an undercover cop from the New York Police Department was conducting a gun sting in Mount Vernon, just north of New York City. One of the gun traffickers jumped into the cop’s car, stuck a pistol to his head, grabbed $2,400 and fled. The officer gave chase and opened fire after the thief again pointed his gun at him. Two of the officer’s bullets accidentally hit a 61-year-old bystander, killing him. That older man happened to be black, but his race had nothing to do with his tragic death. In the other collateral damage case, Virginia Beach, Virginia, officers approached a car parked at a convenience store that had a homicide suspect in the passenger seat. The suspect opened fire, sending a bullet through an officer’s shirt. The cops returned fire, killing their assailant as well as a woman in the driver’s seat. That woman entered the Post’s database without qualification as an “unarmed black victim” of police fire.

MacDonald examines a number of other instances, including unarmed black men in San Diego, CA and Prince George's County, MD attempting to reach for a gun in a police officer's holster. In the San Diego case, the unarmed black man actually "jumped the officer" and assaulted him, and the cop shot the man since he was "fearing for his life." MacDonald also notes that there was an instance in 2015 where "three officers were killed with their own guns, which the suspects had wrestled from them."

4. Black and Hispanic police officers are more likely to fire a gun at blacks than white officers. This is according to a Department of Justice report in 2015 about the Philadelphia Police Department, and is further confirmed that by a study conducted University of Pennsylvania criminologist Gary Ridgeway in 2015 that determined black cops were 3.3 times more likely to fire a gun than other cops at a crime scene.

5. Blacks are more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops. This is according to FBI data, which also found that 40 percent of cop killers are black. According to MacDonald, the police officer is 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black than a cop killing an unarmed black person.

Despite the facts, the anti-police rhetoric of Black Lives Matter and their leftist sympathizers have resulted in what MacDonald calls the "Ferguson Effect," as murders have spiked by 17 percent among the 50 biggest cities in the U.S. as a result of cops being more reluctant to police neighborhoods out of fear of being labeled as racists. Additionally, there have been over twice as many cops victimized by fatal shootings in the first three months of 2016.

Anti-police rhetoric has deadly consequences.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Okay... You have to admit it. This is kind of funny...

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

If the goal is coming together to tackle the problem, it's particularly unhelpful to raise the premise on the basis of a construct that inherently creates an us versus them mindset. Police misuse of authority is something everyone should be concerned about. It certainly won't be solved with the execution of random police officers based on the fact they're wearing a uniform and appear to be Caucasian. That's not a gain for anyone. This isn't a fire that's going to be doused with hate.

The only ones complaining black lives matter creates an us vs them mindset already had the us vs them mindset long beforehand.

Facts, shmacts!

From the post you quoted. "According to data compiled by The Washington Post, 50 percent of the victims of fatal police shootings were white, while 26 percent were black"

So a group that makes up 63% of the population accounts for 50% of the fatal shootings and a group that makes up 12% of the population accounts for 26%. And you don't think that's a wee bit suspect.

Sense of proportion schmaportion.