Attack of the Lakeshore Lodge

[Sandisw]

I have no doubt the trust offers some additional layer of flexibility for DVC, but I still think it's likely very minor given the completely control the HOA's and trading program for the more traditionally deeded resorts. I think the trust likely gives them a lot more prospective flexibility rather than retrospective flexibility (i.e. I don't think they went this route to make it easier to change things after the fact, I think it allows them more flexibility for each new resort/unit/product they want to launch).

As regards the "percentage of ownership" I think they have effectively the same restrictions. The points in the trust are created by assigning a specific point value to each unit they put into the trust. They can't just up and change that value for an already contributed unit (which means, for already contributed units they are still restricted in re-allocations such that over the year they have to still total to the value of the unit as contributed.

Now, as @Sandisw pointed out, they could set up a whole separate plan and contribute units to that plan at a new value. They could do this for a new tower like reflections, but I don't think there's anything stopping them from doing this at CFW....the could designate each "loop" as a separate plan and ascribe different values if they wanted to (up until they actually contribute units into the trust). But again, this is more about prospective flexibility and less about being able to change the rules after something is already contributed and/or sold (in my view).

I actually don't think the trust is a bad thing generally for the overall health of DVC as a "program". I think it will help smooth some of the "end of life" transitions for the individual resorts. I think DVC has seen that "ending" the 2042 resorts is going to be very messy. Their first attempt to address this with offering "extensions" was a total fiasco. I think a trust gives them more options and flexibility in the future in this regard.

Just a point, and I could be wrong in my reading, the units are activated into the trust and thr points they add are determined then.

However, there is nothing that I see requires them to keep the point structure the same in future declarations, which is different than current. For example, let’s say they decide to declared 228K to br used for 35 cabins,,..nothing prevents them from saying the next 35 cabins will have 300 K points to use …now, you have 528k points for 70 cabins under the same plan, which can be used to develop the point charts across all of them.

So, yes, they can’t add more points without units, but because the trust can add different component sites under the same plan, there can be shifting differently.

For example, if they put Reflections and cabins into the same plan, and it’s found that the studios are high demand, they could lower the cabins and shift those points directly to the studios because the points are RTU, and not a % ownership to specific units.

 

[DougEMG]

For example, if they put Reflections and cabins into the same plan, and it’s found that the studios are high demand, they could lower the cabins and shift those points directly to the studios because the points are RTU, and not a % ownership to specific units.

This is one of the reasons I do not like the trust idea. With less rules controlling what they can do, I just don't "trust" Disney to not push things that only benefit them.

 

[Sandisw]

This is one of the reasons I do not like the trust idea. With less rules controlling what they can do, I just don't "trust" Disney to not push things that only benefit them.

My only piece is that if we can have more than one component site that we get home resort advantage at, I might be okay with something like this.

 

[CastAStone]

I still don’t see this project going into the CFW trust.

 

[BayTower2010]

I still don’t see this project going into the CFW trust.

Not sure. If they can jury rig the system so that the HOA dues are lessened on the Cabins by including Reflections, than I believe they will include. From what I see on forums, the biggest complaint by prospective Cabin buyers are the high dues.

 

[hockeydad21]

I still don’t see this project going into the CFW trust.

I will bet you a bowl of ohana noodles from the tambu lounge or a backscratcher cocktail. Your choice

 

[TheDailyMoo]

Now that the Poly mysteries are wrapping up it's back to the trust conversation!

 

[CastAStone]

I will bet you a bowl of ohana noodles from the tambu lounge or a backscratcher cocktail. Your choice

Those both sound unfriendly to my diabetes but I’ll bet 100 imaginary internet dollars

 

[hockeydad21]

Those both sound unfriendly to my diabetes but I’ll bet 100 imaginary internet dollars

Deal

 

[peder]

I'm not a D23 follower. Is there any chance they will announce this during D23 if it wasn't included in the Parks keynote?

 

[CastAStone]

I'm not a D23 follower. Is there any chance they will announce this during D23 if it wasn't included in the Parks keynote?

At this point in the expo it’s unlikely. They probably would have had a private media event yesterday or a walk through display for the show floor Friday if they wanted to include it.

Still not impossible.

 

[Lorana]

Correct, a series of new construction projects at WL. Hence speculative in the thread title. Maybe they'll be really nice and build me a lazy river with a swim up bar instead, since they took so long to close my contracts. But I'm setting my expectations accordingly low.

I cannot express how happy I would be if they built a lazy river at WL. YES PLEASE TAKE MY MONEY.

 

[Economouse]

Just a point, and I could be wrong in my reading, the units are activated into the trust and thr points they add are determined then.

However, there is nothing that I see requires them to keep the point structure the same in future declarations, which is different than current. For example, let’s say they decide to declared 228K to br used for 35 cabins,,..nothing prevents them from saying the next 35 cabins will have 300 K points to use …now, you have 528k points for 70 cabins under the same plan, which can be used to develop the point charts across all of them.

So, yes, they can’t add more points without units, but because the trust can add different component sites under the same plan, there can be shifting differently.

For example, if they put Reflections and cabins into the same plan, and it’s found that the studios are high demand, they could lower the cabins and shift those points directly to the studios because the points are RTU, and not a % ownership to specific units.

In other-words potentially there is no inflation protection as more and more units are added to the trust is how I'm interpreting it.

DVC has always had the right to adjust point charts to find an equilibrium between supply and demand within a resort, but they must do so with then a fixed number of points. Which is why for the most part your weekly stay in a 1br OKW cost roughly the same number of points in 2010 as it does today.

I still don’t see this project going into the CFW trust.

I hope you are right.

 

[Frugal Fairy Tales]

I hope you are right, but I doubt it. Why would Disney ever go through the trouble of setting up the trust if not to start building a moat around direct sales going forward and looking toward 2042? Once a corporation gains an advantage they will do everything they can to protect it.

The Trust is so hard for me to get past as a consumer and that's why I'm avoiding RIV and Cabins like the plague. Honestly, I would rather buy a vacation home in Orlando, where I would at least have homeowner protection and rights, than "invest" in something where Dis has all the marbles.

How does the trust affect Riviera?

 

[Sandisw]

In other-words potentially there is no inflation protection as more and more units are added to the trust is how I'm interpreting it.

DVC has always had the right to adjust point charts to find an equilibrium between supply and demand within a resort, but they must do so with then a fixed number of points. Which is why for the most part your weekly stay in a 1br OKW cost roughly the same number of points in 2010 as it does today.


I hope you are right.

Yes, and no. The adjustments would always have to match the units that are placed there, and once units are declared, and activated, those have to remain at that rate. So, if more are added later to it, the points total still remainded fixed, but the totals can change over time if more and more units are added.

But, there is nothing to stop them from adding future component sites to the same RTU plan and now using both structures to reallocate across the properties.

If the new units are under their own vacation plan, then it is not allowed. For example, they could add future projects, including Reflections to the trust, but create its own vacation RTU plan and not add those units to the CFW plan...if they did that, then no crossing with the points as they are different.

But, if they want to be able to sell CFW with Reflections as one component site and give themselves the ability to reallocate points across all units in that specific plan.

IMO, if this whole trust thing continues in the future beyond CFW, then my speculation is that we won't see component sites added to all the same vacation plan, but they will be kept individually, or clustered in a manner that makes sense, like CFW and Reflections.

ETA: I also do not believe that DVD is going to inflate the points needed to book the cabins in any meaningful way over time...my guess is still that the intial points assigned to book them for the year will remain pretty constant if those are the only units that remain part of the CFW plan.

 

[samsp99]

As the poly tower has a certain similarity to the poly tower, I wonder if that opens up the reflections site for some other style of DVC property?

Having some form of princess castle (not cinderella's) or castles would be an obvious opportunity to build a themed resort. I am thinking you could have a set of buildings (like coronado springs) each of which is themed after different castle's from the animation stable. Be it Frozen, Brave or Repunzel, I think that each could be a different style, but together they share the common theme of being a castle fit for a princess. Locations by a lake would suit most of those cartoons.

 

[kilik64]

As the poly tower has a certain similarity to the poly tower, I wonder if that opens up the reflections site for some other style of DVC property?

Having some form of princess castle (not cinderella's) or castles would be an obvious opportunity to build a themed resort. I am thinking you could have a set of buildings (like coronado springs) each of which is themed after different castle's from the animation stable. Be it Frozen, Brave or Repunzel, I think that each could be a different style, but together they share the common theme of being a castle fit for a princess. Locations by a lake would suit most of those cartoons.

That might have been something 1990s Disney would have done, current Disney only builds and remodels to look like Marriott clones.

 

[Cfabar1]

How does the trust affect Riviera?

I believe there was early speculation months ago that the remainder of undeclared RIV might be dumped into the trust. Since then we had one or two declarations of points into riviera, which seems to lessen the likelihood of RIVs undeclared inventory going into the trust.

I also think some are worried the trust might have different rules that limit the ability for exchanging out of the trust due to home resort advantage, BVTC, etc. This to my knowledge is not currently the case.

 

[Sandisw]

I believe there was early speculation months ago that the remainder of undeclared RIV might be dumped into the trust. Since then we had one or two declarations of points into riviera, which seems to lessen the likelihood of RIVs undeclared inventory going into the trust.

I also think some are worried the trust might have different rules that limit the ability for exchanging out of the trust due to home resort advantage, BVTC, etc. This to my knowledge is not currently the case.

To add to what you have said, the current POS for the Cabins Resort Use Plan has the same exact rules for home resort booking…a guaranteed one month but currently at 4 months…and has a DVC resort agreement with BVTC

So, there is no indication that RTU plans within the trust will have fewer trading options than current resorts do.

If anything, the trust can be set up to give owners more than one home resort within the same plan.

 

[NVDISFamily]

I cannot express how happy I would be if they built a lazy river at WL. YES PLEASE TAKE MY MONEY.

All of this talk of potential expansion at CCV/WL got my hopes up but at least it's tied to a likely soft goods refresh and I'm hopeful to get the murphy beds at CCV in the larger rooms....

As for the lazy river/expansion at WL or FW/Reflections 2.0 would that not be a good way to recycle all of the stuff they have to take out of MK for the new cars ride? Use it as theming for an amazing fort themed water adventure play land? Make it open to all of the resorts in the area. Would be a huge boon to the cabins that are not selling as well.....