Attack of the Lakeshore Lodge

[tidefan]

BLT has a pool that is restricted to just BLT guests…CR guests are not allowed to use it.

It all depends on whether or not the pool becomes a common element for LL or not.

The pool at PVB tower was not added that way but it could be because the other pools were not part of it so it made sense.

So, there is a way to limit the pool from FW guests who are not LL guests.

As far as the amenities? Those won’t be restricted just like they are not at any other resort!

It will be interesting to see to see how it plays out but my guess is we won’t have any idea of whether it will become part of the trust with its own vacation plan, part of the CFW action plan or neither before its close to opening!!

Good points, but it is SOOOOO close to Pioneer Hall, that I can't see them not incorporating what's already there. I would highly anticipate that Trail's End is the QS for both FW and LL. It was odd when they converted it from a full service dining to QS as there is way too much seating in there for a regular QS now, but add in LL, and it makes much more sense. As the buildings are adjoining, Pioneer Hall will essentially be part of LL.

 

[Sandisw]

Good points, but it is SOOOOO close to Pioneer Hall, that I can't see them not incorporating what's already there. I would highly anticipate that Trail's End is the QS for both FW and LL. It was odd when they converted it from a full service dining to QS as there is way too much seating in there for a regular QS now, but add in LL, and it makes much more sense. As the buildings are adjoining, Pioneer Hall will essentially be part of LL.

Those are already common elements of the hotel side of things and I can’t imagine they are not going to give them up so they can become a common element of LL DVC.

It would make no sense nor would it be needed because they can give access to everyone.

Look at the pool at PVB tower…it’s right next to it and it’s not a common element. It belongs to the hotel side.

 

[tidefan]

Those are already common elements of the hotel side of things and I can’t imagine they are not going to give them up so they can become a common element of LL DVC.

It would make no sense nor would it be needed because they can give access to everyone.

Look at the pool at PVB tower…it’s right next to it and it’s not a common element. It belongs to the hotel side.

Just to clarify, I don't think it will be a common element, just that it's so close that it will be "considered" an amenity of LL...

 

[Sandisw]

Just to clarify, I don't think it will be a common element, just that it's so close that it will be "considered" an amenity of LL...

Everything at a shared resort is considered an amenity for the DVC component.

Or am I not understanding what you are getting at…

 

[MagicCat]

The speed at which the Lakeshore Lodge is commencing is really something else. We were at CFW over Labor Day, and there were some construction vehicles over there, but not much was being done other than ground prep. Fast forward to today, and the building is already going vertical, well on it's way to getting completed. Having now been able to get over by the site, I have a few thoughts on it that I couldn't quite put into perspective earlier:

1). In my mind, I had originally pictured LL being closer to the Wilderness Lodge, but that is not the case. The Lodge parking is DIRECTLY across from the Tri-Circle D ranch and the current building structure is IMMEDIATELY adjacent to Pioneer Hall. I knew that this building was going to be close to FW, but not literally right on top of the main area of FW, which leads me to...

2). I am now pretty convinced that Lakeshore Lodge will not only incorporate CFW, it will be integrated somehow into FW. The building is literally on Fort Wilderness ground. I don't see any way that it won't be accessible to all of the campers here at the Fort. In return, Trail's End, Hoop-de-Doo, and Crockett's Tavern will be easily walkable by Lodge guests. You are going to get A LOT of FW traffic at the Lodge, which would be OK if they build the infrastructure to handle it. It will be interesting to see what they do from a restaurant perspective as well as a guest handling perspective. I know that a lot of people that would want to buy would want "limited access" to the grounds, but I just don't see that flying here. Disney has a golden goose with the campsites (if you don't think so, go look at how much golf carts are to rent), and I don't think they want to upset that. Plus, the Pioneer Hall area is so frequented by FW guests that they are naturally going to be wanting to walk the extra 100 yards or so over to LL.

3) I am pretty sure that guest at LL will have access to golf cart rentals. I mean, why not, you're right at the Fort. Who wouldn't want to go "looping"... This would also make LL (and CFW) the property to stay at during Halloween. It will be interesting to see if Disney allows LL guests to bring their own golf carts like FW guests can.

4). I wonder if the the pool areas will be open to FW guests. In that, I also wonder if the existing FW pools will be accessible to LL guests. It would not surprise me if that is the case. I seem to remember someone stating that someone at DVD mentioned that they were looking at enhancing the existing FW infrastructure. I could really see them completely renovate the existing 2 FW pools in addition to whatever they build at LL and all of that being open to either LL or FW guests.

5) Before people get too offended by that idea (of FW guests using LL facilities), I don't think that you will see people at LL being too hung up on going to the nightly FW campfire with Chip n Dale or using all of the Fort facilities (archery, fishing, canoeing, Tri-Circle D, etc.), so if that's the case, I would think that the access would have to extend both ways. Currently, members staying at CFW on points have full access to all the Fort amenities, and those staying at FW have access to the pool over by the Cabins. The only think that is behind an access point is the free laundry by the Wilderness pool.

This will be an interesting one to see how it progresses...

I think golf cart rentals might only be for the cabins and FW guests because where will LL guests charge their carts? Also, things like trick or treating will probably be restricted to FW and cabin guests because they put out amazing quantities of candy, including full size bars, etc…and that is equally contributed to and shared by all in FW but you can’t add in 900 possible hotel room guests from LL taking candy while not being able to contribute to the distribution of candy. There is so much potential for Disney to make this area spectacular and special if they do it right.

 

[T00dles]

Good points, but it is SOOOOO close to Pioneer Hall, that I can't see them not incorporating what's already there. I would highly anticipate that Trail's End is the QS for both FW and LL. It was odd when they converted it from a full service dining to QS as there is way too much seating in there for a regular QS now, but add in LL, and it makes much more sense. As the buildings are adjoining, Pioneer Hall will essentially be part of LL.

The original plans for the new resort included a QS/Grab-n-go market. The concept art is included here: https://wdwnt.com/2019/08/concept-a...arket-at-reflections-a-disney-lakeside-lodge/

Will certainly be interesting to see how this all rolls out! Hopefully FW and LL complement each other well.

 

[tidefan]

Everything at a shared resort is considered an amenity for the DVC component.

Or am I not understanding what you are getting at…

I think we are talking past each other. I was just making the point from a practical standpoint, not an official division of amenities.

 

[tidefan]

I think golf cart rentals might only be for the cabins and FW guests because where will LL guests charge their carts? Also, things like trick or treating will probably be restricted to FW and cabin guests because they put out amazing quantities of candy, including full size bars, etc…and that is equally contributed to and shared by all in FW but you can’t add in 900 possible hotel room guests from LL taking candy while not being able to contribute to the distribution of candy. There is so much potential for Disney to make this area spectacular and special if they do it right.

LL guests would easily be able to walk to the 100, 200, and 400 loops, so I do think you could have LL guests trying to participate in the trick or treating. I would hope that there would be a way to figure out an equitable way to participate (maybe something like a trunk-or-treat?).

Point being, that LL is not just "close" to FW, it literally adjoins Pioneer Hall...

 

[Sandisw]

I think we are talking past each other. I was just making the point from a practical standpoint, not an official division of amenities.

Okay! It wasn’t making sense and wanted to be sure you weren’t specifically talking about how it would work with contract.

Yes, it definitely would add to it’s attraction to those staying there to have those so close!

 

[MagicCat]

The original plans for the new resort included a QS/Grab-n-go market. The concept art is included here
Will certainly be interesting to see how this all rolls out! Hopefully FW and LL complement each other

LL guests would easily be able to walk to the 100, 200, and 400 loops, so I do think you could have LL guests trying to participate in the trick or treating. I would hope that there would be a way to figure out an equitable way to participate (maybe something like a trunk-or-treat?).

Point being, that LL is not just "close" to FW, it literally adjoins Pioneer Hall...

I think they can complement each other very nicely! The campground can easily absorb the trick or treaters from LL if they can find a way to contribute to the effort which I’m thinking they can. I hope it will all be figured out in a way that preserves the charm of FW and allows LL guests to experience the decorations and parades and other amenities of FW while enhancing the access to different amenities for FW guests by providing restaurants and a beautiful lobby area and pool. I believe the current pools at FW will be upgraded. This whole area has the potential to be so spectacular that you won’t even have to go to the parks. The resort itself could be the destination with enough activities to keep you entertained for days.

 

[CraigInPA]

I think the whole idea of LL being part of the campgrounds is rather silly. You have the PIT not very far away from the DVC building of Grand Floridian. I don't hear about people regularly walking the 100-200 yards to use the amenities of the other resort.

Disney's LL is supposed to be a deluxe resort. How deluxe would it be if they expect you to go over to the campgrounds for a meal? Or share the lazy river with the people from the campgrounds? I believe that the pools will be locked away from non-LL guests, just the way the pools at BCV are. Sure, there will be a path to get from the campgrounds to LL, but making LL part of the campgrounds? That's not going to happen.

 

[Steelers0854]

Good points, but it is SOOOOO close to Pioneer Hall, that I can't see them not incorporating what's already there. I would highly anticipate that Trail's End is the QS for both FW and LL. It was odd when they converted it from a full service dining to QS as there is way too much seating in there for a regular QS now, but add in LL, and it makes much more sense. As the buildings are adjoining, Pioneer Hall will essentially be part of LL.

While the proximity will allow for LL guests to take advantage of this QS if they wished, in no reality do I think a 900 room deluxe hotel would share a QS, especially one that guests would have to leave the resort to get to.

The original plans for the new resort included a QS/Grab-n-go market. The concept art is included here: https://wdwnt.com/2019/08/concept-a...arket-at-reflections-a-disney-lakeside-lodge/

Will certainly be interesting to see how this all rolls out! Hopefully FW and LL complement each other well.

I think this is very likely but I cant see it not having some kind of sit down, full service restaurant. If it really does have 900 rooms, give the proximity to FW, and with the cabins, I think they will do a full service restaurant as well.

 

[T00dles]

Original

While the proximity will allow for LL guests to take advantage of this QS if they wished, in no reality do I think a 900 room deluxe hotel would share a QS, especially one that guests would have to leave the resort to get to.



I think this is very likely but I cant see it not having some kind of sit down, full service restaurant. If it really does have 900 rooms, give the proximity to FW, and with the cabins, I think they will do a full service restaurant as well.

Original plans featured a lakeside restaurant inspired by Princess and the Frog.
https://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2019...nnounced-for-disney-worlds-reflections-hotel/

 

[tidefan]

I think the whole idea of LL being part of the campgrounds is rather silly. You have the PIT not very far away from the DVC building of Grand Floridian. I don't hear about people regularly walking the 100-200 yards to use the amenities of the other resort.

Disney's LL is supposed to be a deluxe resort. How deluxe would it be if they expect you to go over to the campgrounds for a meal? Or share the lazy river with the people from the campgrounds? I believe that the pools will be locked away from non-LL guests, just the way the pools at BCV are. Sure, there will be a path to get from the campgrounds to LL, but making LL part of the campgrounds? That's not going to happen.

I don’t think my point is getting across. It’s not 100-200 yards to Pioneer Hall at FW, it will be like 10-20. It’s about the same distance as the Tokelau building is from Moorea. You most certainly will have a lot of Fort Wilderness guests heading over to LL to take advantage of the restaurants for sure.

Also, I think the layout will be different than the original reflections plan because a vertical part of LL is going up directly adjacent to Pioneer Hall, and in the original layout, it looked like there would be cabins of some sort on the FW side of the lodge, but that is not what is going on.

Also, the campgrounds are very unique entity unto themselves, but I would hesitate to say that some of it is not high end. We passed someone with a $500,000 plus class a motorhome today and then shortly down the line was an over $700,000 5th wheel that was pulled by a separate semi truck. It is unbelievable the level of camper that some people have.

And, just a few loops down from there, you have tent camping sites, where you have a lot of families staying, and cooking out and playing. At the fort, one of the wonderful things is that everyone gets along. I really hope LL does not change the character of the Fort, but rather compliments it.

 

[tidefan]

Here is a picture from today taken at Pioneer Hall (For reference, Pioneer Hall Arcade is on the left, and I am standing in front of Crockett’s Tavern).

 

[Kailunkat]

Here is a picture from today taken at Pioneer Hall (For reference, Pioneer Hall Arcade is on the left, and I am standing in front of Crockett’s Tavern).

View attachment 926679

From those of us who are spatially challenged - thank you for the photo!

I never really cared much for the lobby and room design concepts they released for Reflections, but the QS and TS restaurant concept art were both really welcoming and beautiful spaces. I hope they keep the emphasis on lots of glass and light in the spaces.

So I understand the arguement that they might add the CFW Cabins to LL as a joint association - but then what happens to the rest of Fort Wilderness in terms of amenities? The CFW loops are actually the furthest away from the LL site with the campsite loops being much closer. Even if they did add ONLY the cabins - I guess they would have to also add another 360ish parking spaces to the LL area in order to accomodate CFW people coming over to use the pool complex? It doesn't seem as feasible to me but maybe I am missing something?

I have no idea what the total area of the new pool complex versus Stormalong would be - has anyone figured this out based on the stormwater plans?

Best as I can tell the totals for the number of rooms Stormalong serves comes out to around 1500 (635 YC + 583 BC + 282 BCV). But most of those rooms have a max occupany of 6 people (with the exception of the 152 possible BCV 2 beds which allow up to 8). So based on that the MAX number of guests eligible for Stormalong is 9,304. For the 900 rooms being added at LL, let's say they end up with an average occupancy of 5 people to be conservative. So LL would be around 4,500 guests and CFW Cabins have a max occupancy of 6 so that is around 2,200 guests for a total of 6,700 guests if LL and CFW combine. So far so good. But the campsites at FW can book up to 10 people per site - around 8,500 possible guests. That brings you all the way up to 15,000. Obviously that is WAY too high even if the overall size of the LL pool site is larger. So would they bring in only CFW? I don't know. It will be interesting to find out.

 

[zavandor]

From those of us who are spatially challenged - thank you for the photo!

I never really cared much for the lobby and room design concepts they released for Reflections, but the QS and TS restaurant concept art were both really welcoming and beautiful spaces. I hope they keep the emphasis on lots of glass and light in the spaces.

So I understand the arguement that they might add the CFW Cabins to LL as a joint association - but then what happens to the rest of Fort Wilderness in terms of amenities? The CFW loops are actually the furthest away from the LL site with the campsite loops being much closer. Even if they did add ONLY the cabins - I guess they would have to also add another 360ish parking spaces to the LL area in order to accomodate CFW people coming over to use the pool complex? It doesn't seem as feasible to me but maybe I am missing something?

I have no idea what the total area of the new pool complex versus Stormalong would be - has anyone figured this out based on the stormwater plans?

Best as I can tell the totals for the number of rooms Stormalong serves comes out to around 1500 (635 YC + 583 BC + 282 BCV). But most of those rooms have a max occupany of 6 people (with the exception of the 152 possible BCV 2 beds which allow up to 8). So based on that the MAX number of guests eligible for Stormalong is 9,304. For the 900 rooms being added at LL, let's say they end up with an average occupancy of 5 people to be conservative. So LL would be around 4,500 guests and CFW Cabins have a max occupancy of 6 so that is around 2,200 guests for a total of 6,700 guests if LL and CFW combine. So far so good. But the campsites at FW can book up to 10 people per site - around 8,500 possible guests. That brings you all the way up to 15,000. Obviously that is WAY too high even if the overall size of the LL pool site is larger. So would they bring in only CFW? I don't know. It will be interesting to find out.

IF (big IF) LL will end up having a Stormalongish pool complex, then they'll 100% enforce access via a wristband. Then only LL guest will have access. Or, if they merge LL into the trust with CFW, then only LL and CFW guests will have access.

 

[wdwnomad]

While I think the Island Tower is beautiful, I don't think it fits in with the existing Polynesian Resort theming. I really think they need to be consistent across that the entire resort and be seamless. I was there a when the tower opened and I felt that that it was two properties. I am in the camp where two styles can't co-exist.

With that said, I saw how close Lakeshore Lodge is Ft. Wilderness. They are literally next door to one another. It is like Beach and Yacht Club close. I really hope Disney themes Lakeshore Lodge to the existing Ft. Wilderness. Even if they are separate resorts and/or condo associations, their proximately must have similar theming. It will look so out of place if there is rustic in one place and modern rustic boho in another.

 

[Patmcpsu]

I have been thinking about Lakeshore Lodge, and it feels like it's going to be a bust. My general sentiment is that Copper Creek was the last of the unrestricted resorts, and is still pretty new. It seems unwise for DVC to make something so similar as their next resort, especially while the resale restrictions were introduced in between:

1. Copper Creek is a great resort, but its resale value is hampered by location/transportation. Lakeside Lodge will be a similar situation, but worse.
2. Redundant theming. Why would a resale buyer want to buy Lakeshore Lodge with restrictions when Copper Creek is unrestricted? Copper Creek will also have a better points chart, most likely.
3. If Lakeshore Lodge gets rolled-into the Cabins at FW, deed expiration will become 2075. For reference, Copper Creek is 2068.
4. Maintenance fees would also have to absorb the $14/pt currently required for the Cabins at FW.

 

[zavandor]

While I think the Island Tower is beautiful, I don't think it fits in with the existing Polynesian Resort theming. I really think they need to be consistent across that the entire resort and be seamless. I was there a when the tower opened and I felt that that it was two properties. I am in the camp where two styles can't co-exist.

With that said, I saw how close Lakeshore Lodge is Ft. Wilderness. They are literally next door to one another. It is like Beach and Yacht Club close. I really hope Disney themes Lakeshore Lodge to the existing Ft. Wilderness. Even if they are separate resorts and/or condo associations, their proximately must have similar theming. It will look so out of place if there is rustic in one place and modern rustic boho in another.

I do agree with you but we need to be realistic. If the tower doesn't fit with the existing resorts, why should be optimistic in thinking LL would fit better with LL.
Especially because:
- the original renderings were obnoxious
- the Tower is selling reasonably well and there haven't been many negative reviews. Or if some have pointed out the outside of the tower is bad, they still say inside it's beautiful.

Lovers of FW, be prepared, a PIT-like tower is emerging near the fort.