Are the Days of Walking a DVC Reservation Numbered?

[Tatebeck]

The word desired is used…and when they booked the room they desired it to be a check in day.

They absolutely did NOT want it as a check in day.

If the DVC system locked up and for some unknown reason it wasn't fixable for a long time and we or DVC weren't able to modify that reservation for the next 11 months, would the walker have been okay with that and possibly used that date? Nope, they would be very angry and try to cancel/refund the points constantly. They had no intent for that to be the ACTUAL DAY the reservation started.

A normal member booking may not like it, but if they actually wanted that to be their check in day, they may still be able to use it

Absolutely! They are taking advantage of the current rules and why some want them changed.

That has been others points…it’s allowed because the rules don’t currently prohibit it.

You keep saying it's within the current rules but in most cases it's not. The booking system allows it but not the rules.

They make the rules, then they made the booking system fit the rules as best as they can. They are 2 separate things. Computer programs aren't perfect. Just because the system lets you do it does not mean it is within the rules

 

[Sandisw]

Focused on solution side of things to me I think it’s easiest to think of what are the “3 legs” of the walking stool. For a walk to happen you have to have the ability to book a room beyond 11 months (+7 today), you have to have the ability to modify rooms with flexibility, and you have to have a room with more demand then supply.

I’ve seen people make proposals on all 3 of these but I think all 3 are important parts of the dvc product which should not be broken just to stop walking. To me, you have to Venn diagram it and go after when these 3 overlap only. Changes to system should not impact ability to book multiple days or to modify freely and should not put burden on rooms that aren’t in high demand.

Lots of the proposals that recommend limits/charges for modifications or changing point charts would have impact well outside scope of just waking. That’s why to me the solution has to be narrowly tailored only to where all 3 overlap, modifications for reservations extending beyond 11Months where inventory limits.

I think my proposal to simply block modifications for reservations extending past 11 months unless additional inventory is available open to everyone meets all 3 criteria and end walking with minimal impact.

I definitely can see modifications within the first month being a good compromise.

I just people needs to be prepared that if they decide to adjust things…i honestly don’t think we will see it anytime soon because dealing with the rental market is the priority…that the changes they make won’t be what they think they will be.

All I know is that subjective enforcement can’t be part of the rules and the law and contract require them to be.

Hence why they can’t do anything currently about walking until they make a rule change.

 

[Genie+]

I disagree as the other O14 resale owners have a chance to switch at 7 months to a different resort if there dates are not available during their preferred travel time. Resale Riviera owners can't and must book RIV so it will become much more competitive at the 11 month window as when it switches to 7 months others with qualifying points can book RIV and possible take that room away if they are not on it.

From the other end OG14 resale owners cannot trade into RIV, while RIV direct owners can trade into OG14. Resale RIV might find home priority more competitive but after 7 months there’s the potential for OG14 to have an incoming imbalance, with RIV getting an overall advantage on their resort availability.

One weird thing I recently came across though…

Holding. It says ANY resort can be booked for holding points in the last 60 days of Use Year.



Very little left at that point anyway… but is interesting as a workaround for restricted points.

 

[Leight19]

They absolutely did NOT want it as a check in day.

If the DVC system locked up and for some unknown reason it wasn't fixable for a long time and we or DVC weren't able to modify that reservation for the next 11 months, would the walker have been okay with that and possibly used that date? Nope, they would be very angry and try to cancel/refund the points constantly. They had no intent for that to be the ACTUAL DAY the reservation started.

A normal member booking may not like it, but if they actually wanted that to be their check in day, they may still be able to use it


You keep saying it's within the current rules but it's not. The booking system allows it but not the rules.

They make the rules, then they made the booking system fit the rules as best as they can. They are 2 separate things. Computer programs aren't perfect. Just because the system lets you do it does not mean it is within the rules

You say this being facetious but I’ve walked a akv value room for over a month before and if I had my walk broken and woukdnt have been able to continue I absolutely 100% would have used whatever dates I had those rooms for and been happy to do it. The biggest hack I have in my booking is im flexible on dates but if I get the walk I go from traveling when I could to when I want.

 

[Leight19]

I definitely can see modifications within the first month being a good compromise.

I just people needs to be prepared that if they decide to adjust things…i honestly don’t think we will see it anytime soon because dealing with the rental market is the priority…that the changes they make won’t be what they think they will be.

All I know is that subjective enforcement can’t be part of the rules and the law and contract require them to be.

Hence why they can’t do anything currently about walking until they make a rule change.

Just to clarify I definitely wouldn’t limit modifications before 10 months becusse that’s too impactful for me. What I would do is just have code that says if you are extending past 11 months it’s basically treated as booking new. The inventory you have blocked isn’t counted towards what’s available for you and you can only modify if there’s another room open and you beat others at 8am. It would be effectively like they had to create a new reservation to get the next dates but would still be “modifying reservation” so it doesn’t require double points and no risk of losing your current dates if you don’t win.

 

[Tatebeck]

You say this being facetious but I’ve walked a akv value room for over a month before and if I had my walk broken and woukdnt have been able to continue I absolutely 100% would have used whatever dates I had those rooms for and been happy to do it. The biggest hack I have in my booking is im flexible on dates but if I get the walk I go from traveling when I could to when I want.

Ah so you would have been kind of in the middle. A normal member booking... but also walking it forward...

uhh I mean, get out of here you walker you!

 

[Genie+]

Just to clarify I definitely wouldn’t limit modifications before 10 months becusse that’s too impactful for me. What I would do is just have code that says if you are extending past 11 months it’s basically treated as booking new. The inventory you have blocked isn’t counted towards what’s available for you and you can only modify if there’s another room open and you beat others at 8am. It would be effectively like they had to create a new reservation to get the next dates but would still be “modifying reservation” so it doesn’t require double points and no risk of losing your current dates if you don’t win.

Yes I think any change to limit modification should only apply to same exact resort and room type.

 

[eticketplease]

From the other end OG14 resale owners cannot trade into RIV, while RIV direct owners can trade into OG14. Resale RIV might find home priority more competitive but after 7 months there’s the potential for OG14 to have an incoming imbalance, with RIV getting an overall advantage on their resort availability.

One weird thing I recently came across though…

Holding. It says ANY resort can be booked for holding points in the last 60 days of Use Year.

View attachment 921945

Very little left at that point anyway… but is interesting as a workaround for restricted points.

Wow great find!!

I'm sure they will change that though later on.

 

[Leight19]

Ah so you would have been kind of in the middle. A normal member booking... but also walking it forward...

uhh I mean, get out of here you walker you!

I still identify as a walker but if the rules changed today I would book the exact same way I do today with only exception being id go week to week cause I like Sunday to Saturday lol.

Edit to add: the sad thing is commercial renters likely would still book this way too because the best use of their points if they plan to book in future is still somewhere in the 11 months to gurantee they have something.

 

[Genie+]

Wow great find!!

I'm sure they will change that though later on.

If they do I hope they change this as well:

 

[bdrex28]

From the other end OG14 resale owners cannot trade into RIV, while RIV direct owners can trade into OG14. Resale RIV might find home priority more competitive but after 7 months there’s the potential for OG14 to have an incoming imbalance, with RIV getting an overall advantage on their resort availability.

One weird thing I recently came across though…

Holding. It says ANY resort can be booked for holding points in the last 60 days of Use Year.

View attachment 921945

Very little left at that point anyway… but is interesting as a workaround for restricted points.

Very interesting on the Holding points for "Any" DVC resort.

I wonder if anyone's done that? Obviously availability would need to pop up first of all, secondly you'd have to go through member services and if you're a resale owner only like me then I can't even see Riviera availability as it doesn't even come up on my DVC availability charts. So....I'd need to know there was availability, I'd need holding points and I'd need to go through member services.

 

[Sandisw]

From the other end OG14 resale owners cannot trade into RIV, while RIV direct owners can trade into OG14. Resale RIV might find home priority more competitive but after 7 months there’s the potential for OG14 to have an incoming imbalance, with RIV getting an overall advantage on their resort availability.

One weird thing I recently came across though…

Holding. It says ANY resort can be booked for holding points in the last 60 days of Use Year.

View attachment 921945

Very little left at that point anyway… but is interesting as a workaround for restricted points.

It doesn’t work around it…your points can’t be used for restricted resorts during 60 days if they can’t be used for them outside of that.

And I know that because my restricted RiV points in holding were not good at other resorts.

 

[tx911]

You say this being facetious but I’ve walked a akv value room for over a month before and if I had my walk broken and woukdnt have been able to continue I absolutely 100% would have used whatever dates I had those rooms for and been happy to do it. The biggest hack I have in my booking is im flexible on dates but if I get the walk I go from traveling when I could to when I want.

(Kidding )

 

[Genie+]

It doesn’t work around it…your points can’t be used for restricted resorts during 60 days if they can’t be used for them outside of that.

And I know that because my restricted RiV points in holding were not good at other resorts.

Yeah I’ve never heard of anyone doing it, but the contract reads as if ANY resort can booked with holding points in the last 60 days of Use Year.

Eta- Did you ever try booking in that window with RIV resale holding points?

 

[Spivey378]

For me I’d gladly trade being able to stay in a studio at my home resort of Copper Creek at Christmastime for the ability to modify my Saratoga Springs studio reservation as many times as I want.

 

[Chili327]

They absolutely did NOT want it as a check in day.

But there is no way to know that, so it is irrelevant.

 

[Sandisw]

Yeah I’ve never heard of anyone doing it, but the contract reads as if ANY resort can booked with holding points in the last 60 days of Use Year.

Eta- Did you ever try booking in that window with RIV resale holding points?

Yes…that I how I ended up with a grand villa for one night in Feb 2023… I had resale holding points to use up and that was the only room size available for that one night!!

I think what that is referring to is that holding points have no further restrictions for resorts.

So, you can book any resort…any resort that you can always book

 

[Tatebeck]

But there is no way to know that, so it is irrelevant.

As far as their intent and if it actually breaks the rules, the only person that would really know is the member
But as far as enforcement, it only matters what Disney and DVC think.


Just like commercial activity. The only person who knows if they bought DVC for commercial use is the member, but Disney can decide that it is commercial use based on what they can see and what they believe.
If they decide that they think that your booking was against the rules, they may do something. Or they may not.

So far they haven't done anything against walking, but they have the ability in the rules to enforce or not enforce at their own discretion. What they have done is come out and say that walking is "unintended" and that it is impacting other members trying to book at the 11 month window. And said that there will be "more to come."

 

[Sandisw]

They absolutely did NOT want it as a check in day.

If the DVC system locked up and for some unknown reason it wasn't fixable for a long time and we or DVC weren't able to modify that reservation for the next 11 months, would the walker have been okay with that and possibly used that date? Nope, they would be very angry and try to cancel/refund the points constantly. They had no intent for that to be the ACTUAL DAY the reservation started.

A normal member booking may not like it, but if they actually wanted that to be their check in day, they may still be able to use it


You keep saying it's within the current rules but in most cases it's not. The booking system allows it but not the rules.

They make the rules, then they made the booking system fit the rules as best as they can. They are 2 separate things. Computer programs aren't perfect. Just because the system lets you do it does not mean it is within the rules

Please show me in the rules where it says you have to confirm you want that day as an actually day to visit.

And, this has been around well before a computer system. You called MS, told them what you wanted to book and they booked it.

You called the next day and moved it. No asking why…

It seems to me your contention is that DVc can stop or prevent any booking if they don’t like the reason why someone booked it.

That is simply not true. An owner’s reason for booking a room are irrelevant. I can booked today any room within the window just to be a jerk. DVC can’t stop me.

Commercial renting is different because the rule says it’s not allowed and that DVC gets to determine if a membership is commercial or not.

Nothing in the contract or the rules gives DVC the right to cancel an owners reservation because they decided the intent of the owner wasn’t one to their liking.

We’ve gone back and forth and we both agree the other is wrong.

If the rules change, then IMP it’s proof that walking wasn’t against the rules but they want it to be.

DVC made clear that while they recognize this, they are concerned about changes impacting situations outside walking.

They did not agree to change things. Only to review it.

 

[Genie+]

Yes…that I how I ended up with a grand villa for one night in Feb 2023… I had resale holding points to use up and that was the only room size available for that one night!!

I think what that is referring to is that holding points have no further restrictions for resorts.

So, you can book any resort…any resort that you can always book

It just seemed weird they went out of their way to mention the last 60 days of a Use Year, and made that a separate point. If it’s like normal holding point bookings, why bother mentioning and using the word any. Maybe you could’ve pushed back but I bet that 3BR GV was alot more FUN! Lol.