Annual Due Increases

[walt34]

What employees other than front desk personnel?
That’s all I can think of that they have that I don’t.

And as a comparison I’m not even using a GV (which is closer to a house), but rather a studio.

To be clear, I have never complained about the cost of dues. I just don’t understand it.

You are probably not comparing apples to apples. DVC dues include insurance, audit, legal, the reservation system, maintenance, housekeeping, security, taxes, transportation (busses, depending on resort monorail, skyliner), a management fee.

Do you have all of those in your comparison? Are they at the same standard?

 

[matt_in_nh]

What employees other than front desk personnel?
That’s all I can think of that they have that I don’t.

And as a comparison I’m not even using a GV (which is closer to a house), but rather a studio.

To be clear, I have never complained about the cost of dues. I just don’t understand it.

I guess I will just say when I walk around a resort I see all kinds of CM's, much more than are at the front desk. Trying to compare upkeep at a hotel to your house is not a good comparison so I get why you are confused by it.

 

[stat]

Dues vs. home expenses- it's good question and thought exercise. If you think of dues as a percent of buy in price, the 5-10% per year costs do seem high at first. But adding up my own property taxes, insurance, utilities, internet, etc. plus the value of my time would start to get to a comparable range if not higher. If anything there are some economies of scale that make DVC cheaper, though that's offset to a degree by a higher level of quality as someone noted, as well as quantity (more services than I have at home- pool, food service, check-in, security, etc.; also for 365 days per year and for more hours per day).

 

[thanxfornoticin]

Dues vs. home expenses- it's good question and thought exercise. If you think of dues as a percent of buy in price, the 5-10% per year costs do seem high at first. But adding up my own property taxes, insurance, utilities, internet, etc. plus the value of my time would start to get to a comparable range if not higher. If anything there are some economies of scale that make DVC cheaper, though that's offset to a degree by a higher level of quality as someone noted, as well as quantity (more services than I have at home- pool, food service, check-in, security, etc.; also for 365 days per year and for more hours per day).

Interesting comparisons, but I'd also have to throw in the idea that we don't have strangers with kids coming into our homes every night - strangers who don't always take the best care of 'our house' or the DVC rooms, leading to more maintenance requirements! Those DVC rooms are used hard, some disrespectfully hard.

Like you said, a good thought exercise.

We've been members since the 90s when dues were LOW. But we're really not surprised 30+ years later where they currently stand.

 

[Brian Noble]

DVC dues increase slower than rack rates.

Even if they increased at the same rate, it would be a win for owning---it just takes longer. That's because only a fraction of the cost basis is subject to inflation (Dues), not the entire rental rate.

 

[Girlstar30]

Is there a limit on how much they can raise dues annually?

 

[dvc lover 1970]

it is higher than inflation. My dues in 2010 were 5.15 per point counting for inflation it should be around 7.49, not 9.12. So I do think its a bit high.

 

[Girlstar30]

it is higher than inflation. My dues in 2010 were 5.15 per point counting for inflation it should be around 7.49, not 9.12. So I do think its a bit high.

I wonder If it's kind of pointless to see this cost analysis charts I've been looking at like right now it says ccv for me would be a better buy because of longer contract and low dues over let's say GF. But whose to say they won't raise ccv dues and not raise gf as much and then gf was actually the better deal long term

 

[Sandisw]

For sure have worked out fine for me and in line of what I expected.

Been in a cruise so just seeing that you did make a big thread but as I said, posters can make as many threads as they want with topics they want as long as rules are followed, no worries!

 

[intamin]

Is there a limit on how much they can raise dues annually?

There's a maximum year over year percentage I believe but there can be special assessments in the case of a natural disaster which are far more common at beach resorts like HHI or VB.

 

[Girlstar30]

For sure have worked out fine for me and in line of what I expected.

Been in a cruise so just seeing that you did make a big thread but as I said, posters can make as many threads as they want with topics they want as long as rules are followed, no worries!

Thank you so much I really appreciate you and this group

 

[Girlstar30]

There's a maximum year over year percentage I believe but there can be special assessments in the case of a natural disaster which are far more common at beach resorts like HHI or VB.

Good to know at least there's a cap!

 

[Cfabar1]

The cap is 15%... I've long assumed that's the way they can get rid of us if they want to... just keep raising dues 15% a year and offer a buyback program at the same time.... That compounding would get ugly fast!

 

[Girlstar30]

The cap is 15%... I've long assumed that's the way they can get rid of us if they want to... just keep raising dues 15% a year and offer a buyback program at the same time.... That compounding would get ugly fast!

Ugh well if they did this no one in their right mind should buy from them lol

 

[Cfabar1]

Ugh well if they did this no one in their right mind should buy from them lol

Yes, and they haven't done it... my point is just to say, if they decided it was in their interest to do so, don't think for a second they wouldn't!

 

[Girlstar30]

Yes, and they haven't done it... my point is just to say, if they decided it was in their interest to do so, don't think for a second they wouldn't!

Seriously, you would think that them taking such drastic restrictions on resale would discourage people from buying riv and here it is almost sold out. They do whatever they want and people just keep buying, nothing like Disney and they know it!

 

[Chili327]

Ugh well if they did this no one in their right mind should buy from them lol

But it’s a contract so you pay or quit. Or sell for cheap, really cheap… but then it turns into a regular timeshare that people are afraid of.

 

[walt34]

The cap is 15%... I've long assumed that's the way they can get rid of us if they want to... just keep raising dues 15% a year and offer a buyback program at the same time.... That compounding would get ugly fast!

You seem to assume that DVC can increase dues at will. They cannot. Dues increases are connected to increases of actual operations costs. There are legal and contractual limits to what costs could be added and DVC can also not just increase their profits by increasing dues. The management fee is a fixed percentage of operations costs.
I guess they could decide to pay housekeeping dramatically more money but it's hard to see why they would do that.

Have a look at your POS.

 

[PlutoNotPlanet]

You are probably not comparing apples to apples. DVC dues include insurance, audit, legal, the reservation system, maintenance, housekeeping, security, taxes, transportation (busses, depending on resort monorail, skyliner), a management fee.

Do you have all of those in your comparison? Are they at the same standard?

I personally like it when all these are listed out.
Would it be reasonable to expect "condo-like" resorts could have due increase slightly slower then "house-like" resorts?

 

[Cfabar1]

You seem to assume that DVC can increase dues at will. They cannot. Dues increases are connected to increases of actual operations costs. There are legal and contractual limits to what costs could be added and DVC can also not just increase their profits by increasing dues. The management fee is a fixed percentage of operations costs.
I guess they could decide to pay housekeeping dramatically more money but it's hard to see why they would do that.

Have a look at your POS.

That is one example of the types of things they could do - enhanced staffing levels, more frequent renovations, etc. I am not saying they will do this, I am just saying they can...