A question about Tithing and debt, what would Ramsey say?

[crisi]

I'm not sure where you read that, but tithing is money, not time.That said, without time given to our church, it could not survive. No one in our church (well except the recording secretary) should have the information about your giving. That's between God and you.

That depends on your faith, your interpretation of scripture, your church bureaucratic, and your personal relationship with god. Different denominations have different definitions for what tithe means.

 

[crashbb]

A couple of questions for those who believe that tithing means 10% of your income (not being snarky - actually curious).

1) Is it gross or net income?
2) If part of (or all of) one's "income" is welfare, does one still tithe?
3) Do you claim it as a deduction on your income tax?

 

[TheElectricMayhem]

OP, you don't sound very passionate about this- most people decide to tithe after a period of spiritual reflection, not because of Dave Ramsey's recommendations. Is this question for you or for someone you know? If the latter, I would say you should abstain from giving them your feedback, this is a very personal spiritual issue and is no one else's business.

 

[EMHDad]

A couple of questions for those who believe that tithing means 10% of your income (not being snarky - actually curious).

1) Is it gross or net income?
2) If part of (or all of) one's "income" is welfare, does one still tithe?
3) Do you claim it as a deduction on your income tax?

1. I am assuming you mean before/after taxes, right or wrong? It depends on the church or pastor that you talk to and honestly it is a question that you need to personally figure out. Some view income as after taxes and tithe on that. Some view taxes as an expense (like utilities) and tithe on before tax income. Would I would suggest is for the person to be in prayer and seek God's guidance on the course to take.

2. I would preach yes. The one exception I would give is when a person receives non-monetary welfare. However, for example, if a person is receiving unemployment and asks me if they should tithe from that, I would say yes. However, I would also say that a person's giving should not exceed 10% until they can give out of abundance.

3. No, I do claim it as a deduction on my income tax. However, I claim the standard deduction. An itemized deduction would yield me less of a refund.


As far as the wisdom of rather to tithe or not, it is an issue of faith. For a Christian actively attending a faith community, it makes sense because that 10% doesn't belong to the person. It belongs to God. Tithing is simply giving what already belongs to God. He comes first in the person's life.

For a nonChristian, it doesn't/might not make sense, because they dont believe in God (as revealed through Jesus Christ). It would be unfair to expect them to share the same priority or values as a Christian.

 

[ilovemk76]

A couple of questions for those who believe that tithing means 10% of your income (not being snarky - actually curious).

1) Is it gross or net income?
2) If part of (or all of) one's "income" is welfare, does one still tithe?
3) Do you claim it as a deduction on your income tax?

1) The Bible does not say you need to give 10% to your Church. It is a tithe to God. If you have 100 oxen, then you give 10. That at first would seem like gross, but when that was written was there a state income tax. Later the Romans had a tax but I am not sure how it was assessed. Then you could say net, since that is really what you get.

For me it is gross, but part of my income taxes are included. I send money to the federal, state and local government that is used to feed, clothe, house etc others and that is doing God's work. Some goes to my Church to run the building, pay the Priest, help out the less fortunate and many others. The third part is where I help others. Some via charities and others directly. If I buy the neighbor food for the month because they are hungry. I don't have to give it to a church so they an then give it to the neighbor.

2) It should include all sources of money. So yes, welfare should be included as should SS disability payments, SS payments, interest income, dividends and the like.

3) We claim the ones we can legally and not the others. You cannot take a tax deductions for a contribution made to a specific person. Since we do more of our after tax money in the later, more than half does not get deducted.

---

If you give your Church 10% after taxes and then do not save for your old age so the government has to support you, did you really tithe the Church?

What is you only gave 5% and saved 5% but supported yourself in retirement, are you a lesser christian?

IMHO the answer to both is NO.

It is possible that that 5% the first person gave to the church was what the person then took from the government, so the really gave the same as the second.

 

[SandrA9810]

To number 3. Yes, it is tax deductable because the Church is not taxed. It's up to you if you choose to itemize the deduction. I don't believe it's frowned upon, and it was talked about Christmas weekend, making sure all tithes were in before Wednesday to be counted for 2011 taxes.

 

[crashbb]

To number 3. Yes, it is tax deductable because the Church is not taxed. It's up to you if you choose to itemize the deduction. I don't believe it's frowned upon, and it was talked about Christmas weekend, making sure all tithes were in before Wednesday to be counted for 2011 taxes.

So, are you asking because you no longer want to tithe or because you want to start tithing?

 

[PrincessDadx2]

A couple of questions for those who believe that tithing means 10% of your income (not being snarky - actually curious).

1) Is it gross or net income?
2) If part of (or all of) one's "income" is welfare, does one still tithe?
3) Do you claim it as a deduction on your income tax?

You will get many answers. Mine:

1. Somewhat snarky People will say do you want to be blessed on the net or the gross? From a practical standpoint I tithe on the gross. If you tithe on the net then make sure you tithe on your tax return because it is an increase in your net

2. Technically it is your "increase", but not being shepherds it is more difficult then counting how many sheep you had at the beginning vs. the end. People say income, but most forget the value of their benefits, the increase in their home equity, gifts, the increase in their savings, etc. If you want to get leaglistic about it you can drive yourself crazy. From a practical standpoint I make sure to set aside 10% of my gross income and capital gains and figure the rest takes care of itsself with gifts I make during the year which equal about another 2% of my income. That counts everything, Salvation Army Kettle, Toys for Tots, School Supplies, Thanksgiving baskets, meals for sick people, paying someones Financial Peace enrollment, etc.

3. Yes, but our gifts themselves are always over our standard deduction. It is good stewardship to take advantage of the tax savings opportunities that are legitimately provided. As PP said, you are not allowed to deduct gifts given directly to an individual, but we give anyway if we believe we should. Tax benefits are nice, but not the reason for the giving.

 

[Green Tea]

For those that tithe, a question: Is the 10% tithe a set thing, and then you give a weekly offering in addition to that? Or, is the 10% the total amount of your giving in the year?

 

[sk!mom]

I'm not sure where you read that, but tithing is money, not time.

The definition of tithing is one of personal interpretation.

IMO, there is so much duplication of services between Christian churches that their funds are often not used in a way that does anything except operate that church- little goes to help the needy. It's often more about supporting a particular church that is almost like a club. Yes, the members of the church/club have to support it if they want it to stay open and operating.

I do attend a church and do contribute to its operation. However I do not contribute 10% of my income to the church, we contribute directly to charities that will use the funds to help those in need.

 

[willowsnn3]

Far more important according to who? My spiritual life is way more important than if I have a condo in florida when I retire.
For me it's not and either or proporsition.

Would you let your kids starve to save for retirement? No that's crazy. As I said before my faith is just as important so I wouldn't let my children go without, neither would I let my spiritual family go without.

 

[SandrA9810]

10% weekly or 10% yearly would be the same thing. If you gave more now and little less later, it'll all even out if you average it for the year.

Tithe is a very old term meaning one tenth, hence 10%. In olden days it was 10% of what you made. Whether that was food/crops, animals, or what you made. People didn't always have money. Since in today's world, we don't always make/grow things for a living, we give 10% of what we get. Which is money in the form of a pay check.

A farmer could still give 10% of his crops, or sell those crops and give 10% on what he makes.

At least that's my interpertation. It's also supposed to be given freely. God doesn't put a bill in your mailbox and expect payment.

 

[nsmith]

This is just me, but I feel that if someone wants to tithe, but doesn't have the money, they could tithe time. Donate their time to a charity, the church, the people around your community, just helping others. I'm pretty sure God doesn't care about dollars and cents, he cares about people.

When I was working very part time so I could raise my children we didn't have much extra money but I had a lot of extra time. I taught CCD, lead a Girl Scout troop, was the homeroom mom and helped in the library. I considered this my donation to my parish. We put a small amount in the basket each week. Now that I don't have the time but have the funds I volunteer almost not at all but am able to donate more each week. My God wants me to share the gifts He has given me and I feel I have and still do that.

 

[EMHDad]

For those that tithe, a question: Is the 10% tithe a set thing, and then you give a weekly offering in addition to that? Or, is the 10% the total amount of your giving in the year?

I havent put anything in the offering plate in years. We write a check once a month at the beginning of the month and turn that in. It doesnt matter rather you put it in the offering plate, send it by mail or anything. It all works.

 

[DMRick]

Most Christian churches should love one another, join together, close down their duplicate buildings and overhead, and then serve others. Tithing was never meant to pay the lights and heat for 100's of small churches that disagree over minor points of doctrine. It was meant to support the ministers and care for people who have trouble caring for themselves, widows, orphans, etc..

I'm not sure why you think tithing was not meant to support the building. And I'm not sure what you consider minor points of doctrine. That's just an opinion you hold. I don't agree. My salvation and how I get there is pretty important to me.
As for closing down duplicate buildings, that would be hard for us, because we are there so much, to travel a distance to another church. Several services a week, youth group, and our building is used everynight that the church isn't using it for the community..AA, Girl Scouts, Dave Ramsey weekly meeting, Grief Therapy. etc. If we combined with another local church and shut one of the buildings there would not be room for all that need the buildings.

The definition of tithing is one of personal interpretation.

IMO, there is so much duplication of services between Christian churches that their funds are often not used in a way that does anything except operate that church- little goes to help the needy. It's often more about supporting a particular church that is almost like a club.

Thank God for the duplication, as not one church can do it all. Our church funds are used mostly for others. Our tithes (and our churches tithes) are just the begining..after our tithe, then we cheerfully give. I'm sorry that you have been involved in churches that are more like a club. I've not known any like that. Our church's goal is salvation for all.

 

[DMRick]

The definition of tithing is one of personal interpretation.
.

I'm not sure where you read that ...the word tithing has a real meaning. But that's your opinion, and I won't argue with that. We each have to do as we believe God wants us to do. It's not up to me to judge if someone does or doesn't tithe..it's just up to me to do what I feel is what He wants for my life and for you to do what you feel He wants you to do.

 

[Anne34]

1) The Bible does not say you need to give 10% to your Church. It is a tithe to God. If you have 100 oxen, then you give 10. That at first would seem like gross, but when that was written was there a state income tax. Later the Romans had a tax but I am not sure how it was assessed. Then you could say net, since that is really what you get.

For me it is gross, but part of my income taxes are included. I send money to the federal, state and local government that is used to feed, clothe, house etc others and that is doing God's work. Some goes to my Church to run the building, pay the Priest, help out the less fortunate and many others. The third part is where I help others. Some via charities and others directly. If I buy the neighbor food for the month because they are hungry. I don't have to give it to a church so they an then give it to the neighbor.

2) It should include all sources of money. So yes, welfare should be included as should SS disability payments, SS payments, interest income, dividends and the like.

3) We claim the ones we can legally and not the others. You cannot take a tax deductions for a contribution made to a specific person. Since we do more of our after tax money in the later, more than half does not get deducted.

---

If you give your Church 10% after taxes and then do not save for your old age so the government has to support you, did you really tithe the Church?

What is you only gave 5% and saved 5% but supported yourself in retirement, are you a lesser christian?

IMHO the answer to both is NO.

It is possible that that 5% the first person gave to the church was what the person then took from the government, so the really gave the same as the second.

I agree that it does not to be 10%. You give what you can and can still be a good Christian. I also agree that giving time is as important as giving money. Both are necessary for all churches & charities to run.

 

[ekatiel]

Gross vs. Net is a complex question that you'll find many different answers to. We recently switched from tithing off our gross to tithing off our net, due to a decrease in income (My well paying part time job went away). We read a bunch of articles about it, looked closely at our budget to see if there was anything else we could reasonably cut, prayed about it, and decided that for right now, we will tithe off the net. We will have to remember to tithe off a portion of a tax return this year (we starting tithing off net a couple of months ago). The new testament doesn't mandate giving 10% like the old testament does, but we figure it's a good number to start at . --Katie

 

[Green Tea]

I havent put anything in the offering plate in years. We write a check once a month at the beginning of the month and turn that in. It doesnt matter rather you put it in the offering plate, send it by mail or anything. It all works.

I asked about tithing vs regular offering because I read somewhere that the tithing was the 10% we all know about, but that DID NOT mean you were not supposed to give a regular seeking offering as well. The 10% was set, you were to tithe, but the additional was more of your 'gift' not your obligation. Wish I could remember where I read that, because it was different from how I had always interpreted the concept of tithing.

 

[EMHDad]

you dont have to share, but if you would like...

Does anyone know what their pastor/priest preaches about tithing? If so, what denomination? Does that influence what you think about tithing? why or why not?