2042 end dates?

[Chili327]

Was noticing that BWV opened in 1996, but BCV opened in 2002, so 6 years difference, but both end in 2042. Why?
And would it be so hard to extend one, or somehow make it so they don't both end at the same time, especially since they didn't start at the same time.

I know extensions have been discussed extensively, but i never realized they started 6 years different, so sorry if I'm rehashing an old subject, but i didn't see it asked before (the 6 year difference)

 

[LoveToDisney]

When we first purchased, BCV was what was available if you purchased DVC. The end date was the same as OKW and BWV. There was no indication that there would ever be another resort built. Everything ended in 2042 so it just seemed “normal”. In hindsight when SSR was built and the expire date changed, that was almost a surprise to us at the time. Anyway, that was my recollection of our mindset back then.

 

[aammtt20]

After all that went wrong with OKV extensions, I think we can safely say with almost near certainty that extensions will never be offered again at another DVC resort.

 

[Chili327]

After all that went wrong with OKV extensions, I think we can safely say with almost near certainty that extensions will never be offered again at another DVC resort.

Yea, i get that, but i think it may just be that they went about it the wrong way, but could be done, if done right. (like i said I'm sure it has been discussed over and over already, not trying to bring it back up again, just thought it was weird to be that far off on contract lengths)

When we first purchased, BCV was what was available if you purchased DVC. The end date was the same as OKW and BWV. There was no indication that there would ever be another resort built. Everything ended in 2042 so it just seemed “normal”. In hindsight when SSR was built and the expire date changed, that was almost a surprise to us at the time. Anyway, that was my recollection of our mindset back then.

That makes sense, just weird that they were 6 years apart, but ended same year. I can see at the time it seemed pretty normal though.

 

[Sandisw]

Yea, i get that, but i think it may just be that they went about it the wrong way, but could be done, if done right. (like i said I'm sure it has been discussed over and over already, not trying to bring it back up again, just thought it was weird to be that far off on contract lengths)



That makes sense, just weird that they were 6 years apart, but ended same year. I can see at the time it seemed pretty normal though.

The only legal way to do it, assuming DVD wanted to, and Disney wants to grant a longer ground lease, would be to put it to an owner’s vote.

But, it doesn’t gain Disney much extending because they are then stuck with resorts with low charts.

Given the creation of the trust, I think it gives them an even less of a need to extended. They can roll these properties right into that, and sell access to some of the units right away, while they renovate the other ones, and slowly end up with all brand new.

Remember, we still don’t know what is going to happen with the contracts in 2042 that have original owners.

I am not sure why the initial resorts all ended the same and why it was changed to 50 years for all new resorts after that.

But, with BPK and PVB tower they obviously have decided that a 50 year contract is not quite as important as other factors.

 

[Chili327]

Disney much extending because they are then stuck with resorts with low charts.

Definitely doesn't make sense (for them), those will be gold in 2042!!

 

[Sandisw]

Definitely doesn't make sense (for them), those will be gold in 2042!!

And, being how popular those locations are, they won’t have any issue selling access to the new resorts that show up.

 

[CastAStone]

Was noticing that BWV opened in 1996, but BCV opened in 2002, so 6 years difference, but both end in 2042. Why?
And would it be so hard to extend one, or somehow make it so they don't both end at the same time, especially since they didn't start at the same time.

I know extensions have been discussed extensively, but i never realized they started 6 years different, so sorry if I'm rehashing an old subject, but i didn't see it asked before (the 6 year difference)

I mean the same is true of OKW which started presales 11 years before BCV.

Originally the entire DVC enterprise was to end in 2042. They built 6 resorts on that assumption. Then they decided to try a new date for SSR and never looked back.

It’s actually super interesting to read the reactions here from that time.

People unclear on why BCV had the same end date as BWV:

We just bought 170 points and for us that is all we can aford to buy right now. When we bought we thought we would stay at 170 and just make it work with sudios every other year. But maybe we will add on some day (that way I can have BCV also!)

It seems that many people on these boards add on points. If you buy 2002 and then add on 100 more points in 2007 are those points good for another 40 years or do they stop in 2042 when your orignal points stop? If that is true it seem like a waste of points. (this is considering new not resale.)

And if add on points do last 40 more years, does it also count with small amonts of points (20 or so?)

People speculating that SSR getting a later end date would hurt the resale prices of the existing resorts:

lately i've been wondering specifically about the impact of a new ending date for SSR. it'd be a huge impact, wouldn't it?

first, do you think that DVC will come out with 2-tier retail price level if SSR does have a later ending date?

they couldn't possibly sell add-ons at BCV, VWL, BWV, OKW, VB, or HH for the same retail price as SSR, right?

and then, second, what do you think will happen to the resale prices of the original 6 resorts?

in the past, they have risen in proportion w/ the retail price increases, right?
Disney kept the ROFR floor hovering around $15 less than their retail.
and generally, resales sell for prices around that ROFR floor.

People correctly predicting all of the things people would complain about for SSR for years to come:

Well, it appears that SSR is moving along quite nicely, according to the pictures Doc just posted.

It got me wondering....what does everyone think the price per point will be at SSR?

Traditiionally, DVD has increased prices with each new resort. But this is the first on-site resort since OKW that is being built without an existing WDW resort to share amenities with. It has a remote location (unless you're a shopaholic ), so I'm wondering how well they'll be able to sell at a higher price.

Just grist for the mill...what do you all think?

And the actual thread confirming on sale dates, pricing, and 2054 expiration. You can see that Disney initially charged a premium for the only resort with a 2054 end date (as opposed to today, where older resorts typically get a premium direct price.) This thread is worth a read in it’s entirety IMO:

I have received word from my guide that it is looking like Aug. 4 is the magical date. It looks lik BCV is real close to selling out.

 

[aammtt20]

I mean the same is true of OKW which started presales 11 years before BCV.

Originally the entire DVC enterprise was to end in 2042. They built 6 resorts on that assumption. Then they decided to try a new date for SSR and never looked back.

It’s actually super interesting to read the reactions here from that time.

People unclear on why BCV had the same end date as BWV:

People speculating that SSR getting a later end date would hurt the resale prices of the existing resorts:

People correctly predicting all of the things people would complain about for SSR for years to come:

And the actual thread confirming on sale dates, pricing, and 2054 expiration. You can see that Disney initially charged a premium for the only resort with a 2054 end date (as opposed to today, where older resorts typically get a premium direct price.) This thread is worth a read in it’s entirety IMO:

Great finds! As someone who didn't own any points until this year, loving the chance flashback to an earlier time in DVC history

 

[DonMacGregor]

After all that went wrong with OKV extensions, I think we can safely say with almost near certainty that extensions will never be offered again at another DVC resort.

I could MAYBE see them extending possibly BCV to stagger the expiry dates on the two Crescent Lake resorts. Maybe by those 6 years (or some other number), just so they don't have to try to sell two resorts right next door to each other concurrently.

I also think there could be a different result if extensions were offered with 2 or 3 years left on the contracts, versus trying to get people to extend a deed when it still has 35 years left on it. That was just stupid. No one knows what they'll be doing in 35 years (or if they are over a certain age, if they'll even be alive). If Disney decides they don't want both Crescent Lake resorts flipping at the exact same time, they could likely find a significant majority of owners who would jump on the opportunity to do a short extension. They could even piggyback a new, shorter deed (and underlying land lease) that picks up after the existing ones expire in 1/31/42, thereby eliminating the need to get quit claims for any owners who don't want to extend. Whatever they don't "extend" they just rent out as cash rooms.

Do I think they'll do it? Not likely. Do I think they are going to start seriously thinking about what they will do with two 50+ year old resorts that will need serious renovation (and not just a "full refurb") in order to get new owners to commit to 50 years of ownership, and both needing to be flipped at the same time? You bet.

 

[LoveToDisney]

I think DVD is looking forward to the refurb and new leases they will be doing for BWV and BCV after 2042 so no reason to extend. The cost per point will be more than double what we paid and the point charts will be higher. Big win for Disney.

 

[Aussie RJ]

I think DVD is looking forward to the refurb and new leases they will be doing for BWV and BCV after 2042 so no reason to extend. The cost per point will be more than double what we paid and the point charts will be higher. Big win for Disney.

Yes. And at the 2042 point chart discussion we will all be looking at CCV and wondering why we thought those weren't a bargain in 2017.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Yes. And at the 2042 point chart discussion we will all be looking at CCV and wondering why we thought those weren't a bargain in 2017.

CCV is an incredible bargain right now. From a pure value perspective (as well as the high desirability of WL around the holidays that should make points valuable for rentals) it’s tough to beat. I’ve still never stayed there because the few times I booked it my walking distance resort waitlists have cleared…but I keep meaning to check it out because if I love it, I could easily justify adding there. Plus maybe they will build a giant tower there one day and resale will spike to $200.

 

[walt34]

I could MAYBE see them extending possibly BCV to stagger the expiry dates on the two Crescent Lake resorts. Maybe by those 6 years (or some other number), just so they don't have to try to sell two resorts right next door to each other concurrently.

But it would be much easier to solve this with a trust. Imagine a 'crescent lake' trust: You can sell it for 50 years and it will give owners access to BWV, BCV (and maybe some YC at the time). You sell it for 50 years starting in 2041, valid for 2042 onwards. Because it combines 2 or 3 resorts, you can tear one of these down and rebuild it (with more rooms in a higher building) while trust owners keep using the other one or two. Once the first is rebuilt, you can replace the next and sell the additional points created by building a higher building.

I believe there are two incentives for rebuilding the existing crescent lake buildings: if you want to increase the number of points per room, some of these rooms need to be larger. Also, the most important factor in real estate is location and these buildings are just too low for the prime location they occupy.

 

[hhisc16]

Was noticing that BWV opened in 1996, but BCV opened in 2002, so 6 years difference, but both end in 2042. Why?
And would it be so hard to extend one, or somehow make it so they don't both end at the same time, especially since they didn't start at the same time.

I know extensions have been discussed extensively, but i never realized they started 6 years different, so sorry if I'm rehashing an old subject, but i didn't see it asked before (the 6 year difference)

I think I read the minimum for FL timeshare law is 40 years?
So OKW, VB, BWV, BRV, and BCV all have at least a minimum of 40 years.
Not sure that SC timeshare law has the same requirement for HHI.

But why did Disney choose 6 resorts to expire in 2042?!?

That is alot of points and resorts they will have to deal with at one time...unless they all go into the trust?

 

[walt34]

But why did Disney choose 6 resorts to expire in 2042?!?

But wasn't this just the original expiration date for all of DVC and they then decided to change this for future resorts but all of those opened before that change had 2042 set? OKW is the obvious exception, because they tried to extend but messed up the implementation.

So they didn't decide to end those specific associations in 2042 - this was the end date for all of them until they decided to change this for future resorts (but they didn't finde a good way to do it for the older ones).

Yes, they will need a strategy to resolve this before 2042.

 

[Sandisw]

But it would be much easier to solve this with a trust. Imagine a 'crescent lake' trust: You can sell it for 50 years and it will give owners access to BWV, BCV (and maybe some YC at the time). You sell it for 50 years starting in 2041, valid for 2042 onwards. Because it combines 2 or 3 resorts, you can tear one of these down and rebuild it (with more rooms in a higher building) while trust owners keep using the other one or two. Once the first is rebuilt, you can replace the next and sell the additional points created by building a higher building.

I believe there are two incentives for rebuilding the existing crescent lake buildings: if you want to increase the number of points per room, some of these rooms need to be larger. Also, the most important factor in real estate is location and these buildings are just too low for the prime location they occupy.

This makes a lot of sense and I can see how it would be extremely popular. With the way the current language of the trust is written, they can technically add either of those properties to it right from the start and sell RTU to some of the units, while they renovate other units in the same part of the building...or, as you say, add one, with the intention of adding the others as they are done.

Nothing to prevent DVD from updating the point charts right away, and then allow them to be booked via BVTC for other owners and just change the home resort booking window until they are ready to go.

I can see a lot of possibilities that don't leave them with two vacation properties at the same time!

 

[CastAStone]

Yes, they will need a strategy to resolve this before 2042.

I’ve mentioned this before but I think the situation isn’t that bad. They have more points for sale now than they have expiring in 2042, assuming they close VB and HHI. OKW was extended, BRV and BCV are relatively small, and BWV is, in my opinion, likely to be torn down and replaced, or at least extensively renovated. The rooms are too small, the layout is far from ideal, there’s no indoor dining access, and they could fit meaningfully more rooms there if they redid it. That would put it into like 2045ish?

 

[hhisc16]

But wasn't this just the original expiration date for all of DVC and they then decided to change this for future resorts but all of those opened before that change had 2042 set? OKW is the obvious exception, because they tried to extend but messed up the implementation.

So they didn't decide to end those specific associations in 2042 - this was the end date for all of them until they decided to change this for future resorts (but they didn't finde a good way to do it for the older ones).

Yes, they will need a strategy to resolve this before 2042.

I am not sure why Disney chose 2042 for 6 resorts. I wish someone knew though! haha

As a 2042 owner, I would extend or repurchase if my 2042 resort (HHI) would be put in the trust along with the other 2042s.

We have stayed at all of the 2042 resorts and like each of them for different reasons.

 

[hhisc16]

This makes a lot of sense and I can see how it would be extremely popular. With the way the current language of the trust is written, they can technically add either of those properties to it right from the start and sell RTU to some of the units, while they renovate other units in the same part of the building...or, as you say, add one, with the intention of adding the others as they are done.

Nothing to prevent DVD from updating the point charts right away, and then allow them to be booked via BVTC for other owners and just change the home resort booking window until they are ready to go.

I can see a lot of possibilities that don't leave them with two vacation properties at the same time!

Could Disney put all the 2042s in the trust after they expire?
I have not read the trust language yet.