Rented Points: Disappointed in Humanity

[kboo]

I think I rented points from this person a couple of years ago. I'm sorry you went through this, @DVCjj.

 

[cruisin5]

Let's see.

He is still a member, he has paid his dues but owed money, that member services couldn't contact him, and verified or disclosed his phone number and email.

The member has a contract with Disney. And the member might have a contract with the renter. Disney does not have a contract with the renter. Disney should have simply said that they were sorry, but the points were not available to use therefore the reservation was cancelled. They should not have told the renter anything else or even verified anything.

My issue is there was no indication of an issue prior to check-in. The reservation number was good when they checked-in for the first part of their trip. I would have expected Disney to cancel the reservation if it was no longer valid. Unless perhaps the points became unavailable after the original check-in.

I fully expect the reservation number to be an accurate representation of a reservation.

 

[robinb]

My issue is there was no indication of an issue prior to check-in. The reservation number was good when they checked-in for the first part of their trip. I would have expected Disney to cancel the reservation if it was no longer valid. Unless perhaps the points became unavailable after the original check-in.

I fully expect the reservation number to be an accurate representation of a reservation.

My guess is that the rented day was in May but the OP checked into BWV on her points in April. Whatever happened to the points had a deadline of April 30th.

 

[Matty B13]

Was the reservation with the conformation number still showing up in your My Disney Experience Account? If it was still showing up in there before you drove/flew down? I think I would have a bone to pick with DVC as well, because there would be no way of knowing that the reservation was canceled, and in fact had a reservation according to "THEIR" website.

Sorry this happened to you OP.

 

[DVCjj]

Was the reservation with the conformation number still showing up in your My Disney Experience Account? If it was still showing up in there before you drove/flew down? I think I would have a bone to pick with DVC as well, because there would be no way of knowing that the reservation was canceled, and in fact had a reservation according to "THEIR" website.

Sorry this happened to you OP.

Thank you. Yes. Showing up while checking into BLT. Showing up while checking into first 2 days at BWV. (my points)

I think it was a real learning experience for me that no matter how diligent and responsible you are, other people and other factors can sometimes get in the way. I'm going to be trying desperately to not change the way I 'try' to look at things.

 

[arminnie]

I don’t think this has anything to do with Mr. Scam Artist, I had two occasions where I owed DVC money but didn’t know it.

Both times it had to do with my Disney Visa card being reissued with a new expiration date. I don’t go to the front desk to check out so I did not know that my card was declined. And Disney never notified me.

I was buying a house when the collection showed up on my credit report. I had to do some research to even figure out what the charges were as they were months old.

I do check my credit charges on a regular basis, but I look for things that should not be there rather than checking that a charge
was posted. But what I can’t get over is that DISNEY never contacted me to let me know that there was a problem.

And then this happened a second time a few years later. Again not a peep from Disney. They just sent it to collections without ever contacting me.

But I don’t think it ever impacted my ability to make a DVC reservation.

ETA - I paid these bills literally within minutes of learning about them. I still can’t comprehend why I wasn’t notified. My email and phone number hadn’t changed in 20 years.

 

[crisi]

Ok, so as a new DVC owner myself, and trying to understand the situation, if the owner you’re renting from is any type of arrears, the renter is on the hook for it at time of stay I guess? And the renter has no recourse? If so, I would suggest publicly putting this person’s name out there to prevent anyone else from being in the same situation.. that’s just awful!!

As a new DVC owner you should know if you rent out your points and are in arrears on dues or mortgage payments or any other outstanding financial issues, DVC will cancel your reservations. If you've rented those points, they will still cancel your reservation. Disney will not do anything for your renter - its a private transaction between you and your renter. DVCjj was fortunate in getting someone from member service who was willing and able to help - and lucky there were points available in their own account

As a new DVC owner, if you rent out your points and a renter does not pay his bill upon leaving, or trashes the room - you are responsible for the damage and once the grace period has passed, you will be in arrears if you do not pay their bill.

Renting is a great deal, but it does involve risk on both sides of the transaction. Some people are out to scam. Others just have stuff happen. Some people who rent are trying to delay a financial collapse - if it works out its great, if it doesn't, someone will show up to no room. Its part of the risk you take for getting a good deal on the room.

 

[disneynutz]

You would be surprised what some people don't know. We have met owners who don't know about banking and borrowing, never go online, didn't know that you could make room requests, let points expire each year, don't know what the DIS is, only stay at their hone resort.

Bill

 

[Beesknees6]

As a new DVC owner you should know if you rent out your points and are in arrears on dues or mortgage payments or any other outstanding financial issues, DVC will cancel your reservations. If you've rented those points, they will still cancel your reservation. Disney will not do anything for your renter - its a private transaction between you and your renter. DVCjj was fortunate in getting someone from member service who was willing and able to help - and lucky there were points available in their own account

As a new DVC owner, if you rent out your points and a renter does not pay his bill upon leaving, or trashes the room - you are responsible for the damage and once the grace period has passed, you will be in arrears if you do not pay their bill.

Renting is a great deal, but it does involve risk on both sides of the transaction. Some people are out to scam. Others just have stuff happen. Some people who rent are trying to delay a financial collapse - if it works out its great, if it doesn't, someone will show up to no room. Its part of the risk you take for getting a good deal on the room.

This is a great explanation...thank you! So, that’s why it was a big deal in that someone said her reservation was still intact and DVC had not canceled it prior to her arrival. Makes sense. I understand there’s risk on both sides, and if a renter does damage then the owner is liable. When you mention if a renter doesn’t pay their bill upon checkout that the owner is on the hook for this, how would this happen? Don’t renters have to secure a credit card upon check-in as well, or is this handled differently?

 

[cruisin5]

Is it possible that a flagged account still shows a valid reservation but only presents as a problem upon checking in?

 

[Phatscott25]

When you mention if a renter doesn’t pay their bill upon checkout that the owner is on the hook for this, how would this happen? Don’t renters have to secure a credit card upon check-in as well, or is this handled differently?

A renter really isn't any different from an owner as far as MDE is concerned. The renter will most likely have a credit card attached to their MDE account which is linked to their rental via the confirmation number provided by the owner.

At a deluxe, Disney allows your room folio to reach $2,000 before they charge your card. Or they charge it overnight on checkout day. The renter could run up a tab then cancel the card with the issuer, freeze it, etc. and then just leave leave in the morning.

I think more often though owner's get stuck due to the room being trashed by the renters and the same canceled card scenario.

 

[crisi]

Is it possible that a flagged account still shows a valid reservation but only presents as a problem upon checking in?

I think that the more likely explanation was that the system flagged and then "autocancelled" the reservation on a specific date for whatever it was being X days past due. That date just happened to be during DVCjj's stay.

 

[Shanti]

Just got back from a lovely trip and a VERY frustrating last night. All was wonderful at our 3 nights at BLT. All was wonderful for next 2 nights (2 studios) at BWV (used remainder of transferred in points). THEN...on the 3rd BWV night(s) I had rented points for the very first time in order to extend our standard studios for one more night. This was all done in June, 2017 (11 months prior). Though I was very nervous about renting in general, I did my due diligence prior to and after the transaction. I found him on this board.

I was shocked when a very nice man from BWV 'back office' called my room to say there was a big problem for our last nights' stay. BIG problem.

The owner "owed money" and I would have to make other arrangements in order for DD and I to stay for the additional night. I couldn't believe my ears. I asked if Renter was still a member and mentioned I had done all I could prior/after renting. The answer was Yes, a member. I asked if he didn't pay his dues. The answer was "that's not the problem but we can't say anything except he owes money and Member Services cannot get a hold of him". (They had the same email/phone #s that I had on my several correspondences with him 11 months ago).

The only thing that was odd is when I emailed for him to make a return Magical Express once I got air about 3 months prior, he said to have MS do it. I didn't think they would but they graciously did.

Thank goodness, I had Poly points that I used for the 34 points but I cannot believe he could do this to me. How could this have gone so wrong if he was / is a Member and has paid his dues???

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY BE THE REASON? What if I hadn't had points at all to use? I got back last night and am still shaking my head in disbelief.

Thanks for the heads-up. That's terrible and I'm sorry it happened to you. I don't think I'd ever have enough trust to rent DVC direct.

 

[GeneralTso]

What. A. LOSER! So sorry that happened to you.
I think (hope) what happened to you is such an anomaly and unlikely. It shouldn't happen at all, but you know.....there are always those few instances.
Glad it didn't ruin your vacation and that it was the tail end.

I'm a little surprised that the resort didn't do you a solid and just let you stay. Seems rough to just put you out like that.
They could have charged you a fee, or let you use your points. Having to move on your final night is such a hassle. This was such an unexpected problem they could have made an exception. Couldn't they? I don't know. It just seems so upsetting and nuts.

 

[rlduvall]

I'm a little surprised that the resort didn't do you a solid and just let you stay. Seems rough to just put you out like that.
They could have charged you a fee, or let you use your points. Having to move on your final night is such a hassle. This was such an unexpected problem they could have made an exception. Couldn't they? I don't know. It just seems so upsetting and nuts.

But that's exactly what did happen. They allowed OP to use her own points and stay in the same rooms. I thought BWV handled it quite admirably. [Post #14 on first page]

 

[GeneralTso]

Oh goodness. I mis-read. Thought they had to move to Poly. Ooops. Good. That situation was nuts.

 

[Shanti]

Let's see.

He is still a member, he has paid his dues but owed money, that member services couldn't contact him, and verified or disclosed his phone number and email.

The member has a contract with Disney. And the member might have a contract with the renter. Disney does not have a contract with the renter. Disney should have simply said that they were sorry, but the points were not available to use therefore the reservation was cancelled. They should not have told the renter anything else or even verified anything.

I disagree. When a member leaves a Disney guest high & dry on the spot that way, I think Disney has an obligation to give at least that bare bones info about what is going on to the guest, whose family has just been deprived of lodging due to the member's negligence/greed.

If someone can't deal with the possibility of Disney sharing that basic status info, then they shouldn't rent out their points without being paid up.

 

[supersnoop]

I just googled his address from my correspondence on where to send the check.

Re Zillow: He sold his lovely house in Virginia on 3/2/18 for $635,000

Can you google and check the county’s central appraisal district for the property records? I’m curious who’s actually listed as the seller. I’d also google obituaries. Call it morbid curiosity. Sounds like he’s had success renting in the past. This situation is reprehensible, unless he’s dead. He very well might be.

 

[supersnoop]

This is why I'd only rent via a reputable agent such as Dave's as I believe they'd make it good as they couldn't do with bad publicity.

How would you expect a broker to “make it good?” They’re contractual responsibility is to refund your money. We’ve seen it happen in the past. They aren’t going to pay 2x-3x what you paid them just to put you in a room and save face.

 

[supersnoop]

I think Disney has an obligation to give at least that bare bones info about what is going on to the guest,

What more than, essentially, “your reservation has been cancelled. Talk to your travel agent and ask them why they didn’t pay for your room” would you expect? That’s really the crux of it; Disney didn’t get paid for the room, so they canceled the reservation. In this case, it seems they were able to hold the inventory so it could be rebooked, which seems over and above what I would expect.