Worst time to get fired

[kdonnel]

Like I said at my last job there were annual layoffs. We would all exchange stories about prior jobs and layoffs.

Some of the best/worst I remember.....

1. One guy received a WARN Act notice on his first day of orientation. He was starting with a defense contractor that to be ready for layoffs would give everyone a notice every 90 days that layoffs may occur in the next 90 days. He only made it 180 days.

2. One mentioned that everyone got a meeting notice for an all hands meeting the next day. Some to report to one theater on campus and others to a second theater on campus. That was not unusual as not everyone fit into one. Turned out all those remaining got invited to one location and all those being let go to another.

3. One showed up to work and saw a line of limos 30-50 long stretching around the building. When you walked in they scanned your badge and you either got to go up to work or you were handed a box with your stuff and escorted to a limo ride back home.

4. The worst was with my prior company. They relocated someone from Washington state to Georgia. The day he reported to work they laid him off by telephone. He was devastated. His wife had been diagnosed with cancer on the trip. His new boss didn't even bother to come into work that day to let him go in person. The poor guy came back to the office every day that week because he had no where else to go. His car stayed in the parking lot for months, stuffed full of what possessions had not fit in the moving van. Several months later the building finally had the car towed.

 

[bcla]

4. The worst was with my prior company. They relocated someone from Washington state to Georgia. The day he reported to work they laid him off by telephone. He was devastated. His wife had been diagnosed with cancer on the trip. His new boss didn't even bother to come into work that day to let him go in person. The poor guy came back to the office every day that week because he had no where else to go. His car stayed in the parking lot for months, stuffed full of what possessions had not fit in the moving van. Several months later the building finally had the car towed.

That kind of sucks. Any time I've lost a job I always "met" with a manager and possibly two. It might have been by phone although that was because the manager was working remotely. The one mass, unexpected layoff was really bizarre. Our (VP level) site director didn't even know, and he got his notice that day too. Actually - nobody in the entire division knew. I believe this had all been planned by the company execs, the buyer of the division, and HR. No rumors or anything. We were concerned because the company acquiring the division had announced another purchase of a competing company, but we thought it was in a different market segment. My manager came by to all his reports and said he didn't see it coming.

 

[buzznina]

I chose "other" because I got laid off 2 weeks after I closed on my house.

I also voted other, for the same exact reason. It took a couple of days for me to calm down, but then I used it to my advantage and was able to paint and do flooring etc. before I moved in.

 

[thewesterberg]

Right before a vacation could be worse only if it was locked in and non-refundable. Being forced to go on a trip where you don't want to spend money and knowing you needed to find a job would be miserable.

This is what happened to us. My DH found out a couple weeks before our vacation with friends to San Diego and DLR that he was being let go. Airfare, hotel, and DLR tickets - all non-refundable. I think the only thing we hadn’t paid for was the rental car (and I had found an awesome deal). In the end we decided to go. We weren’t getting any money back and the $100 or so for the car/gas wasn’t the end of the world. Plus food money but we’d have to eat at home. And since we were going with friends and we were the organizers of the trip, I’m not sure if they would have gone without us. They were so understanding. We ate on the cheap. Our time in San Diego shifted to pool and beach time instead of going to the zoo or paying for other admissions - but it ended up being our favorite part of the trip!

Rewinding a bit - The day before our trip started my DH got a call about an interview. He almost didn’t go on the trip but the agency was understanding and willing to do a phone interview with him. We got to the airport and the rest of us went through security while he found a quiet corner where he had his interview.

Fast forward a few days - While traveling from San Diego up to Disneyland we stopped at Children’s Pool to see the sea lions. I was up the stairs with my friend and our kids who were grossed out at the stink while DH and our other friend were still on the beach. I can still remember hearing my DH’s phone ring above the sounds of the waves, people, and sea lions and it was the agency calling to offer him the job. Our time at DLR was quite joyful!

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Based on recent experience, I would say during a pandemic & as others have said after you've committed to buy a new home. That's the situation we're in right now. DH lost his job a little over a month ago, because the company lost their contracts. Everyone was blindsided by it, except the person who was responsible for it. He didn't give anyone advance warning. Now, we not only have to worry about getting Covid-19 without insurance, we're facing a situation where we're soon going to have to move out of our current home & stay in a rental for at least a month & a half waiting to move into the new home. Add to that the moving expenses & things we'll have to pay for on the new home. As if that wasn't bad enough, he had only taken two days off all year, so he could save all of his vacation days for moving. They wouldn't compensate him for those. He did get 2 weeks severance, so I suppose that was almost a wash.

Ok, rant over. Sorry about that, but it was good to get it off my chest.

 

[bcla]

Based on recent experience, I would say during a pandemic & as others have said after you've committed to buy a new home. That's the situation we're in right now. DH lost his job a little over a month ago, because the company lost their contracts. Everyone was blindsided by it, except the person who was responsible for it. He didn't give anyone advance warning. Now, we not only have to worry about getting Covid-19 without insurance, we're facing a situation where we're soon going to have to move out of our current home & stay in a rental for at least a month & a half waiting to move into the new home. Add to that the moving expenses & things we'll have to pay for on the new home. As if that wasn't bad enough, he had only taken two days off all year, so he could save all of his vacation days for moving. They wouldn't compensate him for those. He did get 2 weeks severance, so I suppose that was almost a wash.

Ok, rant over. Sorry about that, but it was good to get it off my chest.

Really? Where I've worked, any kind of paid time off or vacation time (but not dedicated sick time) was always considered an entitlement. Whenever I've left a company, the unused vacation time was always paid out at my current rate. The only weirdness was that I was usually salaried. A few companies paid every two weeks. Some paid bimonthly, where payments aligned with other monthly bills. One of the tricks that some companies use is capping the vacation time. I hit my max and didn't realize it until I stopped accruing it for two payments. It was weird too as they had to add vacation time, but only 0.1 hours each time. I was ticked off at my manager because he told me not to take vacation, but I don't think he knew I was maxing out.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Really? Where I've worked, any kind of paid time off or vacation time (but not dedicated sick time) was always considered an entitlement. Whenever I've left a company, the unused vacation time was always paid out at my current rate. The only weirdness was that I was usually salaried. A few companies paid every two weeks. Some paid bimonthly, where payments aligned with other monthly bills. One of the tricks that some companies use is capping the vacation time. I hit my max and didn't realize it until I stopped accruing it for two payments. It was weird too as they had to add vacation time, but only 0.1 hours each time. I was ticked off at my manager because he told me not to take vacation, but I don't think he knew I was maxing out.

I'm guessing you've never worked in Florida or in most southern states for that matter. There are very few employee protections none of which DH qualifies for. FWIW, he was the only salaried person in his division in our area. Everyone that worked underneath him also lost their jobs & vacation days, but didn't receive any severance pay. He feels horrible about that, because he was the one that hired all but one of them.

 

[kdonnel]

Really? Where I've worked, any kind of paid time off or vacation time (but not dedicated sick time) was always considered an entitlement. Whenever I've left a company, the unused vacation time was always paid out at my current rate. The only weirdness was that I was usually salaried. A few companies paid every two weeks. Some paid bimonthly, where payments aligned with other monthly bills. One of the tricks that some companies use is capping the vacation time. I hit my max and didn't realize it until I stopped accruing it for two payments. It was weird too as they had to add vacation time, but only 0.1 hours each time. I was ticked off at my manager because he told me not to take vacation, but I don't think he knew I was maxing out.

In most states if the time is earned then it must be paid to the employee.

In most states if the time is granted then it does NOT have to be paid to the employee.

My last employer switched from a system of earning so many vacation hours per hour worked to a system of granting all vacation hours January 1st so they no longer had to pay remaining vacation hours at layoff time.

 

[mom2rtk]

Based on recent experience, I would say during a pandemic & as others have said after you've committed to buy a new home. That's the situation we're in right now. DH lost his job a little over a month ago, because the company lost their contracts. Everyone was blindsided by it, except the person who was responsible for it. He didn't give anyone advance warning. Now, we not only have to worry about getting Covid-19 without insurance, we're facing a situation where we're soon going to have to move out of our current home & stay in a rental for at least a month & a half waiting to move into the new home. Add to that the moving expenses & things we'll have to pay for on the new home. As if that wasn't bad enough, he had only taken two days off all year, so he could save all of his vacation days for moving. They wouldn't compensate him for those. He did get 2 weeks severance, so I suppose that was almost a wash.

Ok, rant over. Sorry about that, but it was good to get it off my chest.

I'm so sorry. Been there (job and insurance loss, just not the new house part) done that. It's a lot of stress.

I'm just happy to be in an area where everything isn't shut down. Hopefully that will help speed your situation along where you are. After 3 months, my husband just got a new job. I hope yours can too.

 

[holden]

Right after you’ve just made a major purchase, like a house...

 

[starvenger]

I'm guessing you've never worked in Florida or in most southern states for that matter. There are very few employee protections none of which DH qualifies for. FWIW, he was the only salaried person in his division in our area. Everyone that worked underneath him also lost their jobs & vacation days, but didn't receive any severance pay. He feels horrible about that, because he was the one that hired all but one of them.

Yeah I remember how severance in some states is brutal for the employee. I do feel fortunate in that respect because Ontario has laws that tend to better protect you if you're let go. And that my wife has a job in an industry that's rather stable.

 

[DISNEY1975]

Many years ago, my husband got "fired" (laid off permanently) Jan 3rd. Not only right after Christmas, but 5 days after we closed on our 1st house. Fun times! But, we survived and many years later, we are still in the house and my husband owns his own company

Edit to add, we also had a 1 yo. I can laugh now. My hair turned gray that year!

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I think one of the errors in my question is I was thinking about a group firing, and when, in general, that's the worst time. Personally, there are going to be times that are even worse, like everyone has mentioned: being pregnant, just closing on a house, being sick, kid started college, etc.

 

[bcla]

I'm guessing you've never worked in Florida or in most southern states for that matter. There are very few employee protections none of which DH qualifies for. FWIW, he was the only salaried person in his division in our area. Everyone that worked underneath him also lost their jobs & vacation days, but didn't receive any severance pay. He feels horrible about that, because he was the one that hired all but one of them.

One time when I was laid off with a two month notice period, our HR director specifically said that I should try to minimize the use of vacation time so I would have all of it at cash out time. It was also a little bit frustrating though since I didn't accrue any more service time towards severance pay, although that would have been fairly minor (maybe one day's pay). She said if I needed a day off, that it would probably be better to use my sick time, which always started with a fresh amount at the beginning of the calendar year, and that couldn't be cashed out upon separation.

I was asked how I wanted my severance. She recommended spreading it out like a paycheck so as to reduce the amount that would be withheld. I'd probably get it back via tax refund if I accepted a lump sum, but that would need to wait.

But it depends. Teachers' unions have negotiated some pretty good contracts. One high school teacher of mine left mid-year before retirement. But what she did was have enough sick time accumulated over the years where she could just use it for that purpose. I don't think it could be cashed out, but it could be used like vacation time before retirement.

 

[NFLDERS]

I work in residential construction and I can't even count how many people I know of who have been laid off just shortly before they were to take possession of their new homes. I'm not sure about there, but in Canada most mortgage rules generally require there be no material change in circumstances between the time of approval and the time the funds transfer. In other words, the buyers no longer qualified for their loans and therefore didn't get their houses.

I hire-and-fire too, and it's impossible not to "know too much" about individual employees and their situations. It's a gut-wrencher every time and really, there are few work-a-day people that aren't devastated by job loss. Even those employees that I'm glad to see the end of, for professional reasons, I feel terribly bad for personally.

Our one Ddil is an accountant for an umbrella builders/real estate group. Our desired area coupled with Toronto residents wanting to get out of dodge is still booming our housing market here. The lumber shortage may however affect this soon.

Alberta's situation is troubling for sure. If only the BANKS could direct some of their quarterly billions to support families.

 

[NFLDERS]

I'm so sorry. Been there (job and insurance loss, just not the new house part) done that. It's a lot of stress.

I'm just happy to be in an area where everything isn't shut down. Hopefully that will help speed your situation along where you are. After 3 months, my husband just got a new job. I hope yours can too.

So good to read your personal update. Congrats!

 

[bcla]

Yeah I remember how severance in some states is brutal for the employee. I do feel fortunate in that respect because Ontario has laws that tend to better protect you if you're let go. And that my wife has a job in an industry that's rather stable.

Severance was always specifically laid out in every employer-employee agreement I've ever signed. It was always a week for every one year of service time, although once the service time was rounded down, while another time it was calculated down to the hundredths of a year. Also I was in divisions that were purchased, so my service time would go back to the original hire date. That was pretty nice. I guess they could have also done that by paying out severance during the transfer, although I rather liked having the service time. It also applied to vacation time accrual.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I'm so sorry. Been there (job and insurance loss, just not the new house part) done that. It's a lot of stress.

I'm just happy to be in an area where everything isn't shut down. Hopefully that will help speed your situation along where you are. After 3 months, my husband just got a new job. I hope yours can too.

Thanks. It's extremely stressful. I'm glad your DH found a new job. I'm sure that was a weight off your shoulders. DH works in an industry that typically doesn't hire in the last quarter for budgeting reasons, which made the firings even worse. I try to not complain too much about the insurance situation, because there are millions of Americans that never have insurance. It's too bad any of us have to face a pandemic or any other time w/o insurance.

Yeah I remember how severance in some states is brutal for the employee. I do feel fortunate in that respect because Ontario has laws that tend to better protect you if you're let go. And that my wife has a job in an industry that's rather stable.

Employee protections vary widely in US states. It sounds like Canada is more universal in their protections.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

One time when I was laid off with a two month notice period, our HR director specifically said that I should try to minimize the use of vacation time so I would have all of it at cash out time. It was also a little bit frustrating though since I didn't accrue any more service time towards severance pay, although that would have been fairly minor (maybe one day's pay). She said if I needed a day off, that it would probably be better to use my sick time, which always started with a fresh amount at the beginning of the calendar year, and that couldn't be cashed out upon separation.

I was asked how I wanted my severance. She recommended spreading it out like a paycheck so as to reduce the amount that would be withheld. I'd probably get it back via tax refund if I accepted a lump sum, but that would need to wait.

But it depends. Teachers' unions have negotiated some pretty good contracts. One high school teacher of mine left mid-year before retirement. But what she did was have enough sick time accumulated over the years where she could just use it for that purpose. I don't think it could be cashed out, but it could be used like vacation time before retirement.

Very few people in the South are union employees. Teachers are one of the exceptions. I have many family members who are teachers. They have protections the vast majority don't. For most, the personal experience you're describing would be extremely rare.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

One time when I was laid off with a two month notice period, our HR director specifically said that I should try to minimize the use of vacation time so I would have all of it at cash out time. It was also a little bit frustrating though since I didn't accrue any more service time towards severance pay, although that would have been fairly minor (maybe one day's pay). She said if I needed a day off, that it would probably be better to use my sick time, which always started with a fresh amount at the beginning of the calendar year, and that couldn't be cashed out upon separation.

I was asked how I wanted my severance. She recommended spreading it out like a paycheck so as to reduce the amount that would be withheld. I'd probably get it back via tax refund if I accepted a lump sum, but that would need to wait.

But it depends. Teachers' unions have negotiated some pretty good contracts. One high school teacher of mine left mid-year before retirement. But what she did was have enough sick time accumulated over the years where she could just use it for that purpose. I don't think it could be cashed out, but it could be used like vacation time before retirement.

Few people in the South are union employees. Teachers are one of the exceptions. I have many family members who are teachers. They have protections the vast majority don't. For most, the personal experience you're describing would be extremely rare.