Why, oh Why Dont they Listen???

[MrInfinity]

I agree, to a point. While everyone's view of the proper way to do Disney is different, I think we should be able to reach a landing on the fact that there are at least some minimum thresholds that are absolute. Like actually finding a hotel room and not sleeping in a car per Carrie's post above. Or like going to WDW and actually getting in the park as opposed to having it be capacity controlled with you on the outside looking in.

These are fine, but they are not things ppl run into. This is sort of planning for the .0001% or something. Yes, you're going to book a room before you go somewhere, and if you are the type to just drive and go, you can run into finding no room at ANY place, that tiny chance of not getting one is not specific to Disney.

Or like getting into the MK and being able to enjoy at least 6 attractions that day,

Nope, this is a *you thing*. (and a *me thing*, to be fair). But this is not an *everyone thing*. I am sure that most guests actually want to ride much less than you or I want to ride. I see it in everyone. I am a pretty young at heart adult. I play with LEGOs and ride the rides. But most adults do neither. They certainly do not set their expectations on 6 rides per day, over say a 7-day stay. 42 rides in a trip? No way. 10 or 12 on the whole trip might be desired. Again that's not me, but I know a LOT of people like this.

There are going to be around 10 days where some level of planning and booking is going to be necessary to reach even the most modest goals.

You mean like Christmas week and Easter week? Again, I disagree. Lots of friends go down this week cuz it's when they have the time off, and they don't plan more because of it. Think about it -- why are the parks busier during this time! Because everyone wants to go then, not just strict planners. Some go quite unplanned, fully expecting it to be crowded, and with no preconceived necessary fun-level of riding 42 things in a week.

I have a friend who told me last year (on December 10) that she was thinking about taking her family to WDW between Christmas and New Year's. I asked her if staying at a nice hotel was a priority because I know the way she typically travels. She said yes. For her, it was Deluxe or nothing.

Ok, specific need. Different story. You start refining your desires to specific things, then you have to plan for them. First time we went, we had the specific need of the Poly. We booked it at like 90 days out, no problem.

I asked her if waiting in 110 minute lines for popular attractions was something that she was prepared for. Nope. I asked her if eating at the popular restaurants was a goal. Yes. She would have been one of those people who came back and said: "I don't get why people go year after year. That place was awful."

This is artificially creating demand. To say... "I know there is a hard to get into restaurant - do you want to eat there?" will be met with... SURE! But YOU have created that demand, not them. They might have gone and checked out BOG, found it full, so they eat at LTT and have a great time.

It sounds like this person is just not into theme parks. Would she go to Great America? Cedar Point? Magic Mountain? Would she ride rides there? Does she like taking her kids to loud places? Can she deal with the inevitable crowds? Theme parks aren't for everyone. Like you say, for some there are cruises. But theme parks are for lots of people beyond the strict subset of diligent planners. For some it is as simple as... expecting crowds... expecting heat... expecting lines... but wanting family time w the kids in Disney World. Isn't that enough? You do not need to plan it to where you will ride 42 things over 7 days. That is way beyond most expectations.

 

[JimmyV]

Nope, this is a *you thing*. (and a *me thing*, to be fair). But this is not an *everyone thing*.

This is where we disagree. If you want to toss around a percentage like ".0001%", you can assign that to the percentage of first-time visitors who want to go to the MK and do fewer than 6 attractions in a day. I have no ability to prove my side, nor do you. But I don't think that "people who fail to plan ahead and who don't know about booking dates" correlates too highly with the "people who want to simply wander around the park looking at the names on the windows on the Main Street shops". The type of person described by the OP is a person who wants to take their family to WDW to ride on the rides. We both know that. So it's not a "me" thing, or a "you" thing. It's a "them" thing too.

This is artificially creating demand. To say... "I know there is a hard to get into restaurant - do you want to eat there?" will be met with... SURE! But YOU have created that demand, not them.

No. That's not the way it went down. Just as in the OP here. The person already had an idea of where they wanted to dine because they know lots of people who have been to WDW. When someone tells me that they want to eat in the castle, that is not me creating the demand.

 

[MrInfinity]

This is where we disagree. If you want to toss around a percentage like ".0001%", you can assign that to the percentage of first-time visitors who want to go to the MK and do fewer than 6 attractions in a day. I have no ability to prove my side, nor do you. But I don't think that "people who fail to plan ahead and who don't know about booking dates" correlates too highly with the "people who want to simply wander around the park looking at the names on the windows on the Main Street shops". The type of person described by the OP is a person who wants to take their family to WDW to ride on the rides. We both know that. So it's not a "me" thing, or a "you" thing. It's a "them" thing too.

Jimmy you're just saying everyone wants to ride as much as you. Fortunately for us, that's not the case.

Nowhere did I say they want to wander the park and look at names on the windows. It seems you have a hard time with thinking that if you aren't riding a ride, then you must be kicking stones or looking at a sign. But Disney World is so much more than that. You seem to enjoy the ride aspect of Disney World almost so exclusively that you consider all else to be nothing much more than reading signs -- but people get so much more out of Disney than the rides. For example... Wilderness Explorer kits at AK. Do you do them? They're hardly a ride, but we spent HOURS doing these with our kids, while you may have been running from the Safari to EE riding your more than 6 rides. Who had more fun? We had a blast. We spend hours at the pools and on the beach. You'd probly look at our itinerary and cringe for how much down-time is built in. But it's vacation to us. Don't assume everyone is like you. Everyone isn't like me either... there are ppl who like to ride about as much as me, but also ppl who like to ride anywhere from way less to way more. Everyone is going to be different in what they get out of a vacation.

 

[DisneyPrince1982]

I find it hard to believe that a first time visitor headed to MK would be okay with going on fewer than 6 rides. I'm with Jimmy on this one. Sorry Infinity.

 

[G.Goof]

We have a friend who works for Delta Airlines. He and his wife take oversees trips every year. All they book in advance is the flight, a rental car and the first nights hotel. The rest of the entire trip is based on whatever they feel interested in. They rely on locals for dining advice, lodging suggestions and ideas on what to visit. They LOVE traveling like that. I on the other hand am a complete worry-wort if I don't have the entire trip planned. To me, planning is at least 1/2 the fun and builds the excitement. Once I have a plan, I'm fine to adjust it if needed as we go, but I wouldn't dream of not having that plan as a starting point. To each their own. (My thanks to all of you who post hints and tricks that people like myself find helpful!)

 

[WIcruizer]

Jimmy you're just saying everyone wants to ride as much as you. Fortunately for us, that's not the case.

Sorry, but being completely objective I have to side with Jimmy also. Sure, I'm certain there are people who don't go on ANY rides or attractions. But the great majority of people want to go on as many rides/attractions as possible- especially at MK. I would bet anything that's even more the case for first time visitors. Having never been there, they're thinking theme park= rides. For those of us who have been there often and/or getting up in age, yes maybe 6 rides a day is enough for some.

 

[MrInfinity]

Sorry, but being completely objective I have to side with Jimmy also. Sure, I'm certain there are people who don't go on ANY rides or attractions. But the great majority of people want to go on as many rides/attractions as possible- especially at MK. I would bet anything that's even more the case for first time visitors. Having never been there, they're thinking theme park= rides. For those of us who have been there often and/or getting up in age, yes maybe 6 rides a day is enough for some.

Everyone knows theme parks have rides. Not everyone sets out to ride 42 of them in a week.

And again, you may want to ride 42 or more, I want to ride 42 or more, but I know lots of adults who go and just ride a handful. 42 things in a trip is a lot for many families.

Think about why Disney World is so effective at grabbing the typical midlife family with young kids to come spend $5000 at WDW but the same family won't go spend $300 to go to Six Flags. At Six Flags they could ride more rides for less money. But What Disney offers is the complete vacation package. Some rides, some relaxation, some swimming, some dining, etc. Most guests are simply not out to maximize rides like you're saying.

"But the great majority of people want to go on as many rides/attractions as possible- especially at MK"

This is true if you're speaking about the people out here on the Dis. But we are, by our mutual gathering here, that niche of people trying to ride, or particularly good at riding, as much as possible. But we are only a drop in the bucket in the overall attendance at WDW. You have to remember how few we are compared to 17,000,000 guests in a year. The reason we're able to ride more is because most do not care to.

 

[WIcruizer]

I think it's the opposite. Sorry, I just disagree. Those of us here on the DIS are much more about the whole Disney experience. First timers want to ride, ride, ride. It's why so many first time visitors want to go to WDW for a couple days, then Universal a couple days...so they can ride A LOT.

I never said most guests are out to maximize the number of rides every day like some of the extreme planners here. They are looking for more than 6 rides a day though. But the typical first time guest is not looking to spend a day at the pool. And they don't even know most of the other activities they can see, do, experience at WDW.

Only Disney has the proof one way or another (and you know they do!)

 

[MrInfinity]

I find it hard to believe that a first time visitor headed to MK would be okay with going on fewer than 6 rides. I'm with Jimmy on this one. Sorry Infinity.

"Sorry Infinity".

This is fun. Have you actually done the math on the number of rides at the MK?

In a typical day they have a total of 350,000 ridings of all their attractions if every attraction fills every seat and runs all day long. Now since many attractions go way less than full (like Philharmagic and MILF) the actual used capacity is around 300,000 (if the rides run all day long w/o going down). There are 50,000 guests at the MK. So 300,000/50,000 is 6. Which means the average # of rides ridden, is 6 -- on days when every ride functions all day long. Or around 5 on more realistic days (rain).

Therefore, it is NOT POSSIBLE that everyone is trying to ride more than 6. For if they were, it would not be possible for me to ride 15. If everyone set out to ride 6, you and I would only be able to ride 6. But WE DONT. I'll ride 15 in a day with minimal effort, and you probly do too.

Every day that I, or a Dis'er goes... and rides 15, THREE other guests must go and ride only 3. (15+3+3+3)/4 = average 6.

People are way less into the rides than you think. That is why you are able to ride 12, 15, or however many you ride. It is a common false-consensus effect... to associate with people on the Dis, hear about how much we all get on, and then assume the general populace thinks like us. This is clearly evidenced by how most guests outside of the Dis really couldn't care less about planning, and they don't make up a spreadsheet or anything like that. I could give them advice and say... you know you could make a spreadsheet... but... they're not gonna make a spreadsheet. They're just not going to.

Sorry Prince.

 

[DisneyPrince1982]

People ARE way less into the rides than you think.

Nope.

 

[v3rs3]

Our first trip last year ever, just my 7 year old son and I, we probably did 5-6 rides a day. He was afraid of a few, but loves to walk around and look at things and merchandise, so we are in that group that would be fine riding less than 6 rides a day.

 

[CdnCarrie]

I don't believe for a minute that the majority of people are visiting theme parks with little inclination to ride the attractions. Sorry.

 

[Robo]

Having actually BEEN a 7 year-old child in the park, I can tell you that I, myself, was ALL ABOUT riding the attractions.
As many as possible, and my favorites, over and over again.

Our family would start in the mornings and stay until they closed the park.
Riding what we could, as much as we could, in any order that we could, until time to go.

 

[Robo]

And, when going to other places with rides over my lifetime, like "Kiddieland" and similar parks that were popular in the 60's, and state and county fairs with midways, and traveling carnivals... many times they will sell ride-all bracelets with the exact purpose of folks being able to ride their much more basic attractions over-and-over.
Again, the actual purpose... reason for "being..." is the RIDES, for cryin' out loud.

Nobody says, "Hey look, there's a carnival, let's buy a ticket and sit and relax!"

And, another thing.
What kid doesn't like to go to just a local "playground" and RIDE the swings, the slides, the monkey bars?
Should I mention railroads, airplanes, speed boats, sail boats, CARS?
We, as a people, love to RIDE things.

But, after trekking to WDW from who-knows-where, and paying a king's ransom to get in the gates of
about the most marvelous concoction of RIDES ever assembled, we suddenly decide we want to sit 'em out and veg.

Nope.
Not gonna buy it.

 

[Dentam]

We are also headed down next week and have no FP+ reservations (at least for anything with a long line- they were all gone). I've been monitoring the ride times and the highest I've seen SDMT was 50 minutes at peak hours. They are going during low crowd times, it's not going to be a disaster.

We are here now. The wait for SDMT was 70 minutes yesterday afternoon. It has been down quite a bit but they seem to get it back up and running pretty quickly.

Before this trip (which I planned) my dad kept saying that he didn't think we'd need fastpasses or adr's since this shouldn't be a busy time of the year. Some days were predicted as crowd level 1. All I can say is thank god I went ahead and got all of our adr's in advance along with fastpasses for SDMT! The parks have been much busier than we were expecting. We had the most walk on rides during evening EMH's at MK during the first part of our trip. Hope the crowds go down a bit for you next week!

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

That's what I thought! She made it sound like people were gettin' it on in the middle of Main Street, although I'm sure there have been some occurrences in the parks.

I can see it now. Hurry up honey!! We're to the graveyard scene!! make out mansion is almost over!!!!

OK.
I just NOW tried to BOOK the list of restaurants you posted, for a week in early Nov.

Castle, Nov 9-14: Nothing available all day.
Askersus, Nov 9-14: Nothing available all day.
Chef Mickey's, Nov 9-14: Nothing available all day.
Ohana, Nov 9-14: Nothing available all day.

This is true. However, if she is persistent and keeps trying and is willing to go whenever a time opens up, she can probably get one or two of them as people finalize their plans and drop some of their reservations. Which two will be rather random and it probably won't be the castle.

Everyone knows theme parks have rides. Not everyone sets out to ride 42 of them in a week.

And again, you may want to ride 42 or more, I want to ride 42 or more, but I know lots of adults who go and just ride a handful. 42 things in a trip is a lot for many families.

Think about why Disney World is so effective at grabbing the typical midlife family with young kids to come spend $5000 at WDW but the same family won't go spend $300 to go to Six Flags. At Six Flags they could ride more rides for less money. But What Disney offers is the complete vacation package. Some rides, some relaxation, some swimming, some dining, etc. Most guests are simply not out to maximize rides like you're saying.

"But the great majority of people want to go on as many rides/attractions as possible- especially at MK"

This is true if you're speaking about the people out here on the Dis. But we are, by our mutual gathering here, that niche of people trying to ride, or particularly good at riding, as much as possible. But we are only a drop in the bucket in the overall attendance at WDW. You have to remember how few we are compared to 17,000,000 guests in a year. The reason we're able to ride more is because most do not care to.

42 in a week is rather low for us. We hit that mark by day two. Most don't go to ride as many as we do. But a big reason for that is they don't know how and either don't know it's possible or don't take the time to read. But I think none go exclusively to to wait in hour long lines all day. And yes, many people that don't plan end up riding maybe 5-6 things in a day or as you put it, a handful. But I'd bet if I told em there was a way that even in the busiest periods, they could get em on 10 (infinitely easy even on the busiest days) instead of 5-6 90 out of 100 of them would be game to finding out. And 9 out of 10 that wouldn't be game wouldn't because they thought it was a scam. As for six flags, any six flags has hotels near it with swimming pools. Any six flags has good dining options within driving range. Moreover, six flags tends to have pee your pants rides and kiddie areas and not much in between. That has more to do with families preferring Disney than any swimming pools or restaurants. And it isn't that most don't care to ride more rides than they end up riding. It's that they don't know how to or do know how to and can't for whatever reason do that.

 

[bumbershoot]

Having actually BEEN a 7 year-old child in the park, I can tell you that I, myself, was ALL ABOUT riding the attractions.
As many as possible, and my favorites, over and over again.

Yes. I might not remember exactly when my two trips to Disneyland were as a kid, and I might have only vague memories, but my memories are of RIDES (and of my bucket hat with a red visor that I thought was sooooooo cool).

And, when going to other places with rides over my lifetime, like "Kiddieland" and similar parks that were popular in the 60's, and state and county fairs with midways, and traveling carnivals... many times they will sell ride-all bracelets with the exact purpose of folks being able to ride their much more basic attractions over-and-over.
Again, the actual purpose... reason for "being..." is the RIDES, for cryin' out loud.

Nobody says, "Hey look, there's a carnival, let's buy a ticket and sit and relax!"

And, another thing.
What kid doesn't like to go to just a local "playground" and RIDE the swings, the slides, the monkey bars?
Should I mention railroads, airplanes, speed boats, sail boats, CARS?
We, as a people, love to RIDE things.

But, after trekking to WDW from who-knows-where, and paying a king's ransom to get in the gates of
about the most marvelous concoction of RIDES ever assembled, we suddenly decide we want to sit 'em out and veg.

Nope.
Not gonna buy it.

And yes.

My dad lived in Santa Cruz, CA, so sometimes our custodial visits included the Boardwalk. All my brother and I wanted was for him to buy as many tickets as possible so we could ride and ride and ride. Alas, that was rarely our dad's plan, and we almost always left disappointed. (now they sell an all-rides or all-day or something like that pass)

Carousel, the cars, the Giant (or Big?) Dipper, etc etc, all the rides. Wanted to go on all of them over and over!

Which is why my family likes using the unlimited EP from staying onsite over at Universal Orlando, because that's just what we get to do on almost all the rides.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

Sorry, but being completely objective I have to side with Jimmy also. Sure, I'm certain there are people who don't go on ANY rides or attractions. But the great majority of people want to go on as many rides/attractions as possible- especially at MK. I would bet anything that's even more the case for first time visitors. Having never been there, they're thinking theme park= rides. For those of us who have been there often and/or getting up in age, yes maybe 6 rides a day is enough for some.

This i where I think people tend to get disillusioned with Disney World. I've had friends go to WDW and be miserable because their kids think it's an amusement park like 6 flags. It's not, and like Mr.Infinity said, there's so much more than that. It's just all the little touches that go into it that make it special. What do you do at EP? I dare say there aren't over 8 true rides there, and most certainly not thrill rides. While there are those who enjoy riding as much as possible, going through the magic band/fast pass gymnastics to be armed with 21 fast passes when entering a park, there are an equal number who just enjoy being there and stopping to smell the roses. When we went last December, all I did at HS was Frozen sing along and walk through the Osbourne lights. At MK, I "rode" nothing, but I met practically every princess. AK I only did the FOTLK, and at EP, Soarin and Nemo. I was not disappointed at all, just glad to be there and enjoying watching my grandchildren enjoy themselves. True, I have been a lot and will go back again.

 

[GoofyforDisney3]

Our first trip in 1999 was just DH and me. We stayed off site, drove to the park everyday, had no clue what park we were going to go to until the night before. We did take afternoon breaks but only because we needed a nap since we were going from park open every morning full on commando. We had no idea when or even if we would return. We even ate at, what was then a very popular restaurant, the Coral Reef. Had no idea you could make a reservation, but we ended up being able to get a seat any way. Well, I loved every minute of that trip and the Disney bug had bitten me hard.
No sooner had we returned from that trip and I found these boards and learned all about the Millennium Celebration and wanted to go again really bad! DH gave me a goal of, if I could do the trip cheaper than what we did the year before we could return for 2000. I started to research and did a bunch of reading just to find ways to save money. Yep, we stayed off property AGAIN, for like $30 dollars a night with a bid from Priceline. We even flew again that trip. But, even with these boards I still didn't know any thing different than the year before and we didn't have a bunch of other plans made. Again, we loved that trip.
Fast forward a few years, DD was only going to be 18 months old, but I was jonesing to go again when friends of ours asked if we would like to go with them. We ended up driving that trip, and we did have a few dinner reservations set up, a basic plan (that went out the window a day or two into the trip when my friend decided she wanted to go back to EPCOT instead of going to DS like we planned, but that's another story. LOL) and that was about it. I did know enough to watch for discount codes, which we ended up snagging one for the newly opened Pop Century resort.
My DD is now 13, she has been so many times I've lost count and she knows the parks like the back of her hand. We don't even need a map to know where something is that is how well we know those parks and property. And you know what we do now? We decide when we want to go, we book a hotel (hopefully with a discount code), we buy tickets and we decide if we are flying or driving based on the cost of airfare. Then we have a general idea of what the park crowds are estimated to be, we make a few dining reservations if there is someplace we really want to try or is a must do for us (like BOG this year is) and we go and have FUN! We pick what park we are going to when we get to the bus stops. If we don't have a park hopper we get little selective, but if we do, we have been known to get on the first bus that comes. I do the fast pass plus picks, but if we don't make something because we are doing something else that day, oh well, we'll stand in line later. I like to call or go on MDE to see if there is any dinner reservations for that night. Last trip DD decided she wanted to eat at 50s Prime Time, it was about 3 in the afternoon. I looked at the app, saw they had a reservation for 8:00, she chose to not ride TT again and maybe miss out on Fantasmic so we went to dinner. We chanced it and lucked out we had great seats.
I think the important thing is to decide if you may go back again sometime or if this is a once in a lifetime trip. If it is a once in a lifetime, then you may be disappointed if you don't make plans. But, then again, you may end up having the best trip because you did what was available and didn't stress out over getting to a reservation of FP+ by a certain time.

 

[Mirax]

So funny to find this thread:
I took a walk with my neighbor yesterday. She casually says she's hoping to talk her hubby into a Disney World trip.....Dec 29-Jan 4 . Furthermore, they are a family of 5 and she wants to go soon before her youngest (who is 8) will be out of the princess phase and "won't think it's cool to eat in the castle." She asks me about how much it will cost including the dining plan and says "2 or 3 thousand?" I gently encourage her to look into staying off site and sent her a few links to Windsor Hills townhomes. Saw her briefly again this morning and felt obligated to say that they should really make a decision as dining reservations are already going to be slim. She says they are waiting to see how much her husbands bonus will be. I ask when they will know...."the first week of December" she says and still mentions eating in the castle. Whadda ya do???

You tell her to make the reservation now and if they don't get to go oh well.