What is going on with Disney parks?

[jbh275]

Pricing is part of it as well. Is Disney getting too expensive for people? Are we getting close to that tipping point?

I think Disney raised prices every year to find how much people are really willing to pay. I think they have found that point. I really wonder what the parks will be like next year, "if" there is a recession in our short future.

 

[Taylormade0503]

I think if this trend continues into next spring, you could see some more Disney execs being let go. Will it get bad enough for Bob Chapek to be let go is the big question. I'm convinced they are worried about their Christmas bookings. If they have a well below normal Christmas after opening Rise of the Resistance, I think Disney will officially start hitting the panic button.

 

[YesterDark]

I know more people who forgot about Avatar than those that disliked it.

 

[hsmamato2]

Sigh.... I agree with so many here who've already posted.... Too much money and headaches in planning for the experience is my opinion. The special touches that made the Disney parks experience more special that a random theme park have slowly but surely disappeared over the years. For people like me, we notice,and miss the old things we used to get as part of our experience. (no extra $$$$ involved) In REAL life terms,to me this means a loss of the fanbase that was created in the past 30 or so years.(at least some of us) When You charge me 10x as much for an experience that's so MUCH LESS than what we used to get..... what you get is people who just give up,and we take our money elsewhere.
For newbies and younger folks just going for the first time, they have no comparison....except to learn that that it's EXPENSIVE to do a WDW trip- and there are many aspects of the 'new' experience that just don't live up to the hype. Once the newbs learn this, they start drifting elsewhere with their money too!
In both groups, what you have created is a feeling of no loyalty to the Disney experience- and while I agree there are multiple reasons why this is happening, I have mentioned this over the years...... I've been saying for a while that Disney has been coasting on it's previous success,and loyalty of those customers....all the while doing all of the above.
It was only a matter of time before people got priced out, got sick of the lesser experiences,(I'm looking at YOU dismal Disney IT !!!) and the need to overplan and overthink what is supposed to be a VACATION. To me this is the natural course of things. People like myself are sloooooooowing our Disney roll.... newer (younger) folks can't even get started (hello high prices).

 

[TiggerBouncy]

It seems over the past week crowds have picked up. Halloween parties are also not necessarily indicative of the daily crowds as it’s a special event.

Agree on parties. But I have seen similar posts saying non party nights are terribly busy now because people don’t want to pay for the party.

So if non party nights are busy AND party nights are busy, isn’t that great attendance numbers?

I realize this is just magic kingdom. Seen similar posts for Epcot and Hollywood studios (namely toy story land). Haven’t noticed animal kingdom except for FOP

But judging on FP+ reports the parks found booked for 60+ days

 

[rteetz]

Agree on parties. But I have seen similar posts saying non party nights are terribly busy now because people don’t want to pay for the party.

So if non party nights are busy AND party nights are busy, isn’t that great attendance numbers?

I realize this is just magic kingdom. Seen similar posts for Epcot and Hollywood studios (namely toy story land). Haven’t noticed animal kingdom except for FOP

But judging on FP+ reports the parks found booked for 60+ days

Epcot has certainly picked up over the past week. I think we are seeing an increase in attendance right now. As noted in this thread a few times Disney saw sort of a perfect storm. You had Dorian, you had school starting for a lot of the US, and a few other factors. There definitely was at least a 2-3 week lull where crowds were really light compared to what we are used too. This Summer was also very manageable. Summer used to be slammed. Food and Wine always helps Epcot, now add in the end of Illuminations and a new show, people will head to see those things. DHS still isn't as crowded as many expected.

 

[HuskieJohn]

I know more people who forgot about Avatar than those that disliked it.

My assumption is that if people did not see it in the theater in 3D when it came out then their experience would be that the movie was a normal regurgitated concept. For me seeing it in true 3D in the theater was the reason it was an extremely positive experience.

I do not go for 3D movies much but I have not seen anything that looked visually as good in 3D than Avatar.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Also keep in mind that WDW isn't just domestic. For many years, WDW enjoyed large crowds from the rising Brazilian Middle Class and from the UK.

Brazil's citizens was very upbeat about their future even as recent as 2018. However, in 2019 due to a series of blunders from the new government, hopes are dashed and Brazil is no longer viewed as being the powerhouse it was believed to be able to become. What was once believed to be the most powerful rising middle class in the world has become very conservative and scared because of loss of confidence in the ability of Brazilian government to recover from 2014, much less grow past it.

The UK is very conservative because of BREXIT. That will not free up until the confusion and dust clears. The rest of Europe has somewhat similar concerns.

I don't think we know the exact numbers as Disney doesn't disclose them, but at it's height about 4 years ago, International tourists accounted for about 25%-30% of all WDW visitors as they did tell us that. We know the South America (and Brazil in particular) and the UK were both large contributors. We also know that international visitors are significantly down. Again, Disney won't tell us, but the Florida Bureau of Travel does.

Other contributing factors:
* Florida has been very hot this year
* Disney has changed the pricing scheme to try to even out the crowds. If they were successful, we should see more of a prolonged burn then a bright summer flame as more people move their travel plans to the winter to save quite a significant amount (>$100/day)
* A lot of people are waiting for Rise of the Resistance to open.
* A lot of people fear the crowds that they thought Star Wars Land would bring, so elected to wait until the crowds die down (no one knows when every individual thought that would be). I am an example of someone who decided to wait rather then face the crowds.
* Many people in early September cancelled because of the Hurricane. It's not so easy to just "put your trip off by a week:, Schools start. Vacations get cancelled and can't easily be rescheduled. My friend is a nurse and has to plan her vacations 4-6 months out. If she loses it, it's another 6 months.
* There is definitely a fear of a recession domestically if not globally.
* There is a lot of construction happening. Many people who only get a once in a lifetime visit are likewise waiting until some of the "new" stuff is built both to avoid the construction and to see the new stuff on their one shot.

These are just *SOME* of the contributing factors. Even if each of these only account for 1-2% each of the total crowd, that's still a good 15-20% drop in attendance if you add all of them up and most of them are short term issues (short term defined at 2-5 years).

 

[Brianstl]

I know more people who forgot about Avatar than those that disliked it.

Yes. Avatar is a visually stunning movie, but there isn't much memorable story wise.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Epcot has certainly picked up over the past week. I think we are seeing an increase in attendance right now. As noted in this thread a few times Disney saw sort of a perfect storm. You had Dorian, you had school starting for a lot of the US, and a few other factors. There definitely was at least a 2-3 week lull where crowds were really light compared to what we are used too. This Summer was also very manageable. Summer used to be slammed. Food and Wine always helps Epcot, now add in the end of Illuminations and a new show, people will head to see those things. DHS still isn't as crowded as many expected.

Unfortunately, I still think we are just at the edge of the storm - or maybe the eye of it (the calm center). I do not expect attendance to stay up (see my earlier post). There will be increased crowd for the fall because of the holiday surges. However, Brexit, Brazil, domestic and potential global recessions looming, and overall global unrest have not been resolved or even stabilized. There is absolutely no way that Disney can stay packed in such an economic environment. They can perhaps raise crowds in a short term by making a herculean push, but they can't sustain it. Not until the environment stabilized.

 

[rteetz]

Unfortunately, I still think we are just at the edge of the storm - or maybe the eye of it (the calm center). I do not expect attendance to stay up (see my earlier post). There will be increased crowd for the fall because of the holiday surges. However, Brexit, Brazil, domestic and potential global recessions looming, and overall global unrest have not been resolved or even stabilized. There is absolutely no way that Disney can stay packed in such an economic environment. They can perhaps raise crowds in a short term by making a herculean push, but they can't sustain it. Not until the environment stabilized.

I agree, this certainly isn’t the end of this discussion. The weeks and months going forward will be telling.

 

[yorkieteacher]

For us, it is not about the money. We loved being at WDW because of the feeling of being there. It was something special that you could only get in WDW. It seems to me that their priorities are no longer on maintaning that feeling. And, absent that 'feeling,' it's just another theme park.

This! It's why I justify the cost, which as I said previously, is comparable to a trip to Europe! When I don't feel the magic/pixie dust, I'd rather go somewhere I have never seen before-

 

[leafyeon]

One thing I'm always super curious about is.. who are these people paying $800-$1000 a night to stay in the deluxe resorts? As an example, I picked a random Tuesday night in early March 2020. Not near any holidays (to my knowledge) and not a weekend, and probably before the Spring Break rush. The cheapest room at the Grand Floridian was $1,000 excluding tax for a one-night stay. And lots of other Deluxe hotels were only slightly cheaper, but when you add in tax and tickets . . . where do all these people get their money from to spend on extravagant holidays?

Maybe it's because I've never stayed in one of these nice and fancy rooms, but can they really be worth it?

 

[mickeyluv'r]

The complexity is something I struggle with. I enjoy the planning process and while I understand the stress of picking a restaurant out 180 days in advance, it's not that big of a deal. You can always change it. I think people make too big a deal out of it. And for those that complain about doing planning at all, well that's just silly. If you wanted to do a European vacation, there is still alot of planning you have to do.

I fear you are misinformed.
It is easy and liberating to travel without a set plan. It is especially common to explore Europe without a set plan. All you need is:
A.) transportation
B.) a place to sleep
C.) money

With cell phones, it is easier than ever! and very liberating!

******
What irritates me about making dining reservations so far out isn't the process of booking it, it is how we are treated once we arrive. A dining reservation should = an available table, not a 45 minutes wait.

Time is $.

 

[OlieRow]

One thing I'm always super curious about is.. who are these people paying $800-$1000 a night to stay in the deluxe resorts? As an example, I picked a random Tuesday night in early March 2020. Not near any holidays (to my knowledge) and not a weekend, and probably before the Spring Break rush. The cheapest room at the Grand Floridian was $1,000 excluding tax for a one-night stay. And lots of other Deluxe hotels were only slightly cheaper, but when you add in tax and tickets . . . where do all these people get their money from to spend on extravagant holidays?

Maybe it's because I've never stayed in one of these nice and fancy rooms, but can they really be worth it?

I've never paid rack rate for a Disney hotel room and won't stay deluxe for less than 30% off (with a standard view during off peak times). It's usually been a 30-35+% discount or a group rate the handful of times I've splurged for deluxe. I wouldn't pay over $400/night.

 

[tlmadden73]

One thing I'm always super curious about is.. who are these people paying $800-$1000 a night to stay in the deluxe resorts? As an example, I picked a random Tuesday night in early March 2020. Not near any holidays (to my knowledge) and not a weekend, and probably before the Spring Break rush. The cheapest room at the Grand Floridian was $1,000 excluding tax for a one-night stay. And lots of other Deluxe hotels were only slightly cheaper, but when you add in tax and tickets . . . where do all these people get their money from to spend on extravagant holidays?

Maybe it's because I've never stayed in one of these nice and fancy rooms, but can they really be worth it?

Doctors, lawyers, etc. To some, it is worth it, yes. I would gather the people staying at these hotels HAVE disposable income and used to a certain level of service.

The cost difference is shocking. On a trip in November, our entire trip at the All-Stars cost about what my cousins family was paying PER NIGHT at the Grand Floridian.

For better or for worse, there are people who value luxury over cost savings and spend the money on it.... bigger houses, expensive cars, designer purses, etc. Nothing wrong with that. Everyone values something different. I value hotels pretty low, because I see them as a place to rest your head at night after a full day at a theme park.

 

[snoopy352]

Increased Prices, Decreased Services
People don't like paying more for less and everyone has a breaking point. The prices are going up on absolutely everything and they're cutting everything. When people pay significantly more, they expect more. Instead, they're getting less. That's a major turn off.

It seems like this thread went from super insightful posts to venting about planning, quality of food, etc. Nothing wrong with that lol but having to plan in advance is not why the parks are struggling.

Disney has lost its identity. It cares more about shareholders than guests. Ironically, guest experiences will feed the shareholder profits.

Price increases alone are not the issue here. It's the quote above - the erosion of benefits as someone else stated. Another poster said they could afford the increases, but it was just OFFENSIVE to them at this point and that is why they are done. I believe these are the root issues. Don't increase prices across the board to these levels and THEN understaff rides during less crowded times, decrease park hours, decrease or eliminate the beloved street performers that make Disney uniquely Disney. To me this is why attendance is going south.

I will add a mini-vent of my own - the oversaturation of SW (and IPs) is another form of Disney's greed - it's basically marketing their brands and most of us know it. DHS used to be about movies (removing the Great Movie Ride was a dubious decision to say the least), and now it is 45% SW and 45% Toy Story. It's not that I don't like SW and TS - it's just that the park, along with Disney in general, has lost its identity as well.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yes. Avatar is a visually stunning movie, but there isn't much memorable story wise.

I don't think it's actually much of that. I think it's more of a situation of too much time in between the release of the movie and the announcement of the land and the actual opening of the land. Ever watched a tv show where it was good but then it went on an extended hiatus and then you just sort forgot about it or lost interest in it? Reminds me of what happened during that big writers strike that really hurt several tv shows. I think that's a very possible case with people not so Avatar-positive for lack of a better description.

Not truly apples to apples but Harry Potter, even if you remove the story from it, had multiple books and still being written books when the land was announced at Universal and even several years prior when it was originally proposed with Disney. It was still fresh in people's minds and continued to stay fresh in people's minds as newer movies/books came out allowing for expansion of the 'world' with Diagon Alley. With Avatar we've been stuck with nadda for years. I actually found a post of mine last year from I think it was 2015 or 2016 talking about how one of the sequels was 'supposed' to be released in 2018

 

[yorkieteacher]

The complexity is something I struggle with. I enjoy the planning process and while I understand the stress of picking a restaurant out 180 days in advance, it's not that big of a deal. You can always change it. I think people make too big a deal out of it. And for those that complain about doing planning at all, well that's just silly. If you wanted to do a European vacation, there is still alot of planning you have to do.

I also enjoy the planning-but my husband and several of my family members don't. When we are able to go to Europe, we sign up for a tour with a travel company, and really do less planning than for a Disney trip! It's nice to have everything done, but I feel more "in control" of a Disney vacation. I guess I feel more confident about planning as well, since we have made quite a few trips to Disney over the years-but some people have a VERY different idea of what they want their vacation to be. I've had many people ask why in the world do we want to keep going back to Disney when there are so many other places to go. Couple that with the costs, crowds, and time you need to invest beforehand, many people aren't feeling the magic I do-

 

[Adric Jones]

I’m retired and have been going to WDW 3-4 times a year since 2016. I’m AP and have been considering a re-sale DVC. BUT, with all the price increases I’m now questioning if I should pursue DVC and/or renew my AP. The things that keep me going are how much I relax there and I that recently was blessed with twin granddaughters. I think I need to ‘keep it up’ for the twins. If the money holds out, my ‘breaking point’ will keep being pushed back.