what are your thoughts on sending this mother to jail over her child's truancy?

[tvguy]

I completely disagree that it's no big deal. Foundational reading skills are built at that age and if you fall behind, it's very difficult to catch up. Missing 4 days for a Disney vacation- not a big deal. Consistently missing 2-3 days per week? You are missing a lot of the foundation for basic skills in language and math.

That being said, I completely agree that social services are what is needed here. Now a kid has an incarcerated parent and the host of trauma that comes alongside with that; if your goal is to have the child attend school, figure out what that family is missing and help the mom to fill those gaps. Assume goodwill always- that a parent wants to do the right thing, but isn't able to.

There is a lot information missing regarding this specific case. But based on the multiple attempts by the legal system to provide goodwill and no jail time that were ignored or rejected by mom, I think it may be time to consider removing the child from the home.

 

[Happyinwonerland]

I completely disagree that it's no big deal. Foundational reading skills are built at that age and if you fall behind, it's very difficult to catch up. Missing 4 days for a Disney vacation- not a big deal. Consistently missing 2-3 days per week? You are missing a lot of the foundation for basic skills in language and math.

That being said, I completely agree that social services are what is needed here. Now a kid has an incarcerated parent and the host of trauma that comes alongside with that; if your goal is to have the child attend school, figure out what that family is missing and help the mom to fill those gaps. Assume goodwill always- that a parent wants to do the right thing, but isn't able to.

Not really. There is no magical formula age/time in the year for kids to learn those skills. Finland is considered to have the best educational system in the world. and their kids don't even start school until age 7. Their 6 year olds miss that entire year of school and they seem to do just fine.

 

[mummabear]

Not really. There is no magical formula age/time in the year for kids to learn those skills. Finland is considered to have the best educational system in the world. and their kids don't even start school until age 7. Their 6 year olds miss that entire year of school and they seem to do just fine.

I was just going to say the same thing.

 

[mummabear]

I think it is ridiculous to send parents to jail for truancy. It doesnt help anyone in the situation at all.

 

[Hannahinwonderland]

Not really. There is no magical formula age/time in the year for kids to learn those skills. Finland is considered to have the best educational system in the world. and their kids don't even start school until age 7. Their 6 year olds miss that entire year of school and they seem to do just fine.

I agree that you don't have to learn at that age, so I think I worded my statement poorly. What I mean is that the way our instructional system works is that if the other kids ARE receiving that instruction at that age, then you fall behind. It's not that the skills match the age of development, exactly- and there is definitely a strong argument for not beginning instruction that early- but that missing exposure to instruction that other kids are receiving puts you at a disadvantage when you are then required to learn more challenging material. If you are taught to add in 1st grade, but don't learn that because you miss school, you'll be at a severe disadvantage when you are learning to multiply in 2nd grade. We can talk all day about whether it is developmentally appropriate for these skills to be taught at the age they are- but unless you plan to remove your child from society, it makes most sense to go along with the system.

It's not that you need to learn by age 6 to succeed,it's that the instruction is happening whether you are there or not, and that the standards you are expected to reach do not change even if you weren't in school. It's also a time of learning social norms that are needed to be successful. Another problem is that it teaches the child that school should not be considered a priority, that it's not that important, and that it's ok to be truant. This is why I believe it is a crime if parents don't send their kids to school, but I also don't believe in jail as a useful punishment to that.

 

[GreatLakes]

As a first resort? Overkill. As a last resort when everything else fails? That's different.

Education is a basic need in my opinion.

 

[QueenIsabella]

Not really. There is no magical formula age/time in the year for kids to learn those skills. Finland is considered to have the best educational system in the world. and their kids don't even start school until age 7. Their 6 year olds miss that entire year of school and they seem to do just fine.

This simply isn't true. If kids don't learn to read by age 9, they can learn to read, but will never do it as fast/well as kids who learned younger. There's something in their brain that turns off at that age--that's why it's best to learn additional languages very young. My DH learned to read quite late--turns out, he had an undiagnosed learning disability--and he will always be a slow reader. He's seen experts about it, and there's nothing they can do for him.

It also depends very much on what parents do at home. My 4 kids were all reading before the hit kindergarten (K they learn sight words, actual learning to read is the big focus in 1st grade). I would bet that a parent who doesn't care about truancy is not the parent who took her kid to the library and the children's museum. I would also bet that any parent, no matter the socio-economic status or country of origin, who cares about their child's learning, does learning activities with the child, long before the child enters a school.

On a similar note, my DD teaches 4th grade English language learners. By definition, these are students who have been in this country for less than a year (after that, they have to be mainstreamed, by law). Many of these children have lost large chunks of education time due to various, horrible circumstances. This year, she has a number of kids from Honduras. She would be rolling on the floor, helpless with mirth, to hear you guys say that missing years of education is no big deal. She literally deals with the fallout of such ignorance on a daily basis. Throw in some trauma and poor social skills--you know, from not attending school, and her students are so far behind, it would break your heart. Luckily for them, they have my DD for their champion. Last year, she literally had kids who quadrupled their standardized test scores (not that she's a fan of those tests, but they're required to take them. In English.)

 

[Hikergirl]

As a first resort? Overkill. As a last resort when everything else fails? That's different.

Education is a basic need in my opinion.

I agree. It sounds like this mother had multiple opportunities to resolve the issue, she continuously chose to ignore them.
She is responsible for getting herself thrown in jail, she could have avoided that. Maybe 28 days in jail will get her attention if there is a next time she thinks it's a good idea to keep ignoring them.

 

[china mom]

I used to bailff in a court that handled truancy cases. It was so bad we had to set a special day for them.

I can't begin to tell you the resources that were provided and the chances given to some of these parents. Jail was always a very last resort

We had some success stories and some failures but my judge was pure in that he was always looking out for the kids.

 

[Happyinwonerland]

*1) This simply isn't true. If kids don't learn to read by age 9, they can learn to read, but will never do it as fast/well as kids who learned younger. There's something in their brain that turns off at that age--that's why it's best to learn additional languages very young. My DH learned to read quite late--turns out, he had an undiagnosed learning disability--and he will always be a slow reader. He's seen experts about it, and there's nothing they can do for him.

*2) It also depends very much on what parents do at home. My 4 kids were all reading before the hit kindergarten (K they learn sight words, actual learning to read is the big focus in 1st grade). I would bet that a parent who doesn't care about truancy is not the parent who took her kid to the library and the children's museum. I would also bet that any parent, no matter the socio-economic status or country of origin, who cares about their child's learning, does learning activities with the child, long before the child enters a school.

*3)On a similar note, my DD teaches 4th grade English language learners. By definition, these are students who have been in this country for less than a year (after that, they have to be mainstreamed, by law). Many of these children have lost large chunks of education time due to various, horrible circumstances. This year, she has a number of kids from Honduras. She would be rolling on the floor, helpless with mirth, to hear you guys say that missing years of education is no big deal. She literally deals with the fallout of such ignorance on a daily basis. Throw in some trauma and poor social skills--you know, from not attending school, and her students are so far behind, it would break your heart. Luckily for them, they have my DD for their champion. Last year, she literally had kids who quadrupled their standardized test scores (not that she's a fan of those tests, but they're required to take them. In English.)

1) I'd say your husband's lifelong difficulty with reading has more to do with his disability than the age it was diagnosed, which can be treated but it will never be easy for him. I'm sorry he struggles with that. My own father has always struggled with dyslexia and it frustrates him.

To the other part of your first paragraph, studies actually show that there is no long term in difference between kids who learn to read early and kids who learn late. The late readers typically catch up quickly.

2) I care very deeply about my child's education and do more than you would believe to help her succeed. But, a 6 year old missing school doesn't bother me at all. They just aren't missing that much.

3) Nobody said missing years of education was a good thing. I said that 6 year olds don't even really need to be in school yet, based on the most highly regarded academic system in the world. Of course eventually they need to be taught, but at 6 its ok if they are still playing more than learning.

 

[DisneyOma]

I read an article where the mom explained that she was in a bad place mentally when the truancy happened. Something about losing a close relative and sinking into a deep depression.
Personally, I think a 6 year old missing school is no big deal. I think the school only cares because they get funded based on average attendance per day. Our schools demand work of children that many are not developmentally ready for. What could they possibly be teaching her that she can't catch up later?

I think jail was inappropriate. She needed family support services, not crinimal charges.

The brain starts wiring for learning at birth (and perhaps even before), and those synapses are developing like crazy the first 5-7 years of life. Plunk a kid in front of a tv, video game, iPad for those important developing years, and you get a brain wired for quick, stimulating input, that craves instant feedback, with a short attention span. Read books, run around the yard and take walks, sing the ABC's, count things, have unstructured, non-electronic play time, with time to actually get bored, and the synapses connect in a different way. I can very unscientifically say that the years I've spent in a variety of classrooms in my 15+ years in special education has led me to believe that kids who come into kindergarten not knowing their ABC's but can tell you how to play a violent video game are going to have a much harder time in school than the kids who know how to read at 2nd grade level on the first day of kindergarten. And the kid who has had lots of positive adult and peer interaction before ever stepping into school is going to have an easier time with the structure and scheduling of a 6 hour school day.

Our state truancy doesn't even start until age 7. Under our state law "children between the ages of 7 and 18 are required to attend school." (you can drop out with parental/guardian permission I believe at age 16 though).

So, hopefully the parents are doing lots of reading, writing, math skills, etc, during the day. Those little kids' brains are doing a lot of wiring up to the age of 7. It's very hard to rewire, catch up, and have success if you've got no foundation at the age of 7.

Not really. There is no magical formula age/time in the year for kids to learn those skills. Finland is considered to have the best educational system in the world. and their kids don't even start school until age 7. Their 6 year olds miss that entire year of school and they seem to do just fine.

This is misleading - a great majority (like 97%) of them attend preschool from age 3-6.

 

[Sabeking]

I used to bailff in a court that handled truancy cases. It was so bad we had to set a special day for them.

I can't begin to tell you the resources that were provided and the chances given to some of these parents. Jail was always a very last resort

We had some success stories and some failures but my judge was pure in that he was always looking out for the kids.

Since you have some experience with this let me ask you a question. If the absences are excused is it a nonissue? My dd has missed a lot of days for the past few years. Her grades are average and when I spoke to the school they said they don’t get too alarmed if her grades are decent. She developed a medical condition a few years ago and has a letter from her doctor. The teachers are aware and sometimes I think a little scared because she can go down like a sack of potatoes in the classroom on any given day.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

So, hopefully the parents are doing lots of reading, writing, math skills, etc, during the day. Those little kids' brains are doing a lot of wiring up to the age of 7. It's very hard to rewire, catch up, and have success if you've got no foundation at the age of 7.

1)You may want to look up all the states. 7 is shared by multiple.

2) Also if a child goes to kindergarten in our state regular attendance is required though truancy doesn't start til age 7.

3) I don't make the state rules I just stated what they were in response to another poster

 

[Colleen27]

There's not a lot of information available about this case, but there are a few things about it that bother me.

First and foremost, the news reports indicate this case has been ongoing for 14 months. The problem with that? In Michigan, kindergarten isn't mandatory and there's no way the child in question was within the 6-to-16 compulsory attendance age range when the proceedings started if s/he is in fact still 6 now. If the kid is 6 now, every single absence prior to June was in a class the kid wasn't required to be in in the first place.

Second, the mother appears to be a single mother (I assume, since there's no mention of a father) in a community with a child poverty rate of about 30%. There's a very good chance that some or all of those absences were due to things like housing instability, utility shutoffs and other financial crises that would interfere with the school readiness of a young kid. But nowhere in this story (or the other headline-grabbing cases handled by the same prosecutor) is there any mention about trying to get the family help to address issues underlying the truancy.

Third, this prosecutor loves these headlines and is building a statewide reputation on them, which makes me think it isn't necessarily about what is best for the child/family. Helping a single mom get a decent car or housing assistance doesn't make headlines the way throwing them in jail over truancy does. At least a few times each school year, he makes an example of a parent - always a young, struggling single mother - by pushing for a token jail sentence over a truancy complaint. And always, there's talk about conferences with prosecutors and signed agreements but never anything about addressing actual causes of missed school.

Fourth, every relevant school handbook I've looked over has some "catch" to the attendance policy. In the town this woman lives in, tardies of more than 30 minutes are counted as absences... a great way to trip up families without reliable cars. In another district where the prosecutor has pursued another parent of a young child, a parent call isn't enough to excuse an absence for illness - the parent has to be available for a call back to "discuss" the message left on the voicemail reporting line and determine the absence status. Not a great requirement for parents who can face workplace discipline for personal calls during work hours.

I don't think anything good is accomplished by setting families up to fail or making bad situations worse by imposing fines and demanding time off work, knowing it can sink a single parent (for those who don't know, in MI your drivers license can be suspended indefinitely for any unpaid fine). And that's what it sounds like is happening in the cases I keep hearing about out of Muskegon Co.

 

[barkley]

Finland is considered to have the best educational system in the world. and their kids don't even start school until age 7. Their 6 year olds miss that entire year of school and they seem to do just fine.

If kids don't learn to read by age 9, they can learn to read, but will never do it as fast/well as kids who learned younger. There's something in their brain that turns off at that age-

i'll just point out that the state of washington's required age for initial school attendance isn't until 8 and we somehow manage to educate students such that we'e repeatedly ranked in the top 10 education wise as well as having children and adults entirely competent in reading comprehension.

This simply isn't true. If kids don't learn to read by age 9, they can learn to read, but will never do it as fast/well as kids who learned younger. There's something in their brain that turns off at that age--that's why it's best to learn additional languages very young. My DH learned to read quite late--turns out, he had an undiagnosed learning disability--and he will always be a slow reader. He's seen experts about it, and there's nothing they can do for him.

that 'something', if it exists, must be equally capable of turning back on based on my personal experience. i learned to read around age 3, was reading full novels by k and 1st. loved to read, and could read FAST w/ excellent comprehension. then in my early 40's i had 2 stroke-one of the side effects being the entire loss of ability to read. over the course of months with my ever patient then kindergartner reviewing his work with me day by day, week by week it slowly came back. sure it took a little longer (those kiddie books didn't keep my interest like they did when i was little but when we introduced tabloids i was off and running). whatever turned off in my brain was capable of turning back on-that may not be the case for everyone.

 

[QueenIsabella]

i'll just point out that the state of washington's required age for initial school attendance isn't until 8 and we somehow manage to educate students such that we'e repeatedly ranked in the top 10 education wise as well as having children and adults entirely competent in reading comprehension.




that 'something', if it exists, must be equally capable of turning back on based on my personal experience. i learned to read around age 3, was reading full novels by k and 1st. loved to read, and could read FAST w/ excellent comprehension. then in my early 40's i had 2 stroke-one of the side effects being the entire loss of ability to read. over the course of months with my ever patient then kindergartner reviewing his work with me day by day, week by week it slowly came back. sure it took a little longer (those kiddie books didn't keep my interest like they did when i was little but when we introduced tabloids i was off and running). whatever turned off in my brain was capable of turning back on-that may not be the case for everyone.

I didn't mean to imply that it's impossible to learn to read after a certain point. But, it's more difficult, and requires a different part of the brain (pardon my vagueness--I was told this by an authority, I can't cite references, etc.). I know with my DH, he can't read any faster because he has what's called an "inner voice" that "says" each word that he reads. Most of us start out with this, but then can get past it to just immediately process the written word. In DH's case, the learning disability--specifically, he has no short-term memory--didn't CAUSE this inner voice, but you can imagine how it would make learning to read very difficult when he was a child.

It's also been shown that people who learn to read younger, read faster. I'm not recommending that we start kids reading in school earlier--clearly, most aren't ready to. But I'm a firm believer in reading generally--reading yourself, reading a loud to kids of any age, having many books available in a wide range of subjects and reading levels, and so forth.

Bottom line, kids' minds need to be fed. Most kids know this inherently, and like to learn. There are policies in place for sick children--say, if you're kid's in traction, the school can arrange a tutor. Obviously, this is trickier if a student has a chronic, unpredictable disease, but in that case, the parents need to work closely with the school. To me, it's less about actually missing school days than missing the material.

 

[Hikergirl]

There's not a lot of information available about this case, but there are a few things about it that bother me.

First and foremost, the news reports indicate this case has been ongoing for 14 months. The problem with that? In Michigan, kindergarten isn't mandatory and there's no way the child in question was within the 6-to-16 compulsory attendance age range when the proceedings started if s/he is in fact still 6 now. If the kid is 6 now, every single absence prior to June was in a class the kid wasn't required to be in in the first place.

Second, the mother appears to be a single mother (I assume, since there's no mention of a father) in a community with a child poverty rate of about 30%. There's a very good chance that some or all of those absences were due to things like housing instability, utility shutoffs and other financial crises that would interfere with the school readiness of a young kid. But nowhere in this story (or the other headline-grabbing cases handled by the same prosecutor) is there any mention about trying to get the family help to address issues underlying the truancy.

Third, this prosecutor loves these headlines and is building a statewide reputation on them, which makes me think it isn't necessarily about what is best for the child/family. Helping a single mom get a decent car or housing assistance doesn't make headlines the way throwing them in jail over truancy does. At least a few times each school year, he makes an example of a parent - always a young, struggling single mother - by pushing for a token jail sentence over a truancy complaint. And always, there's talk about conferences with prosecutors and signed agreements but never anything about addressing actual causes of missed school.

Fourth, every relevant school handbook I've looked over has some "catch" to the attendance policy. In the town this woman lives in, tardies of more than 30 minutes are counted as absences... a great way to trip up families without reliable cars. In another district where the prosecutor has pursued another parent of a young child, a parent call isn't enough to excuse an absence for illness - the parent has to be available for a call back to "discuss" the message left on the voicemail reporting line and determine the absence status. Not a great requirement for parents who can face workplace discipline for personal calls during work hours.

I don't think anything good is accomplished by setting families up to fail or making bad situations worse by imposing fines and demanding time off work, knowing it can sink a single parent (for those who don't know, in MI your drivers license can be suspended indefinitely for any unpaid fine). And that's what it sounds like is happening in the cases I keep hearing about out of Muskegon Co.

And all of these issues could have been resolved if the mother didn't ignore the multiple attempts to do so, no?

 

[china mom]

Since you have some experience with this let me ask you a question. If the absences are excused is it a nonissue? My dd has missed a lot of days for the past few years. Her grades are average and when I spoke to the school they said they don’t get too alarmed if her grades are decent. She developed a medical condition a few years ago and has a letter from her doctor. The teachers are aware and sometimes I think a little scared because she can go down like a sack of potatoes in the classroom on any given day.

Laws vary by state and policies vary by school district so dare not give anything resembling legal advice but I would think that in most cases absences for illness would be excused and not count.

If called in about it, documentation should clear thing up. In the case cited, the mother ignored the school and courts

 

[Colleen27]

And all of these issues could have been resolved if the mother didn't ignore the multiple attempts to do so, no?

Without knowing more, I don't think we can know that. No number of meetings and threats from district officials or prosecutors gets a kid transportation to school, or overcomes the housing/basic care insecurities of poverty in a place with a scant safety net, or makes punitive attendance policies (which, in my experiences in the same state, are very much dependent on the school's socio-economic profile) reasonable for the working poor. So unless the meetings were something more than the "agree and we'll postpone criminal action" ultimatums discussed in coverage of other, similar cases involving the same prosecutor, there is a high probability that no actual solutions were offered.

I think it is very unlikely to be coincidence that this one particular prosecutor in this one particular county is doing the same things everyone else tries to help struggling families but just happens to encounter parent after parent that is unwilling to cooperate. I think it is far more likely that he simply disregards the challenges these parents face as excuses and thinks if the threat of punishment is strong enough/real enough, they'll find a way to get their kids to school without help.

 

[StephMK]

It might not be on the same level of food or shelter but educational neglect is pretty close. It may not be the case every time, but in our district, it is definitely a red flag that there might be other issues in the home.

It might be that they are needed to watch younger ill siblings, parents aren't able to get them there, or they just don't show up. We have kids who regularly miss 1-2 a week, at least 3 weeks a month.

I'm torn on the jail issue. Yes, they need help but schools and courts usually do everything they can to help before it gets to that level.