*** Updated to add spring break Data*** New Data, FP+ impacting wait times, discuss

[akadada]

You definitely don't need Disney to find a good hotel with a pool. In fact, in those two respects - the hotel being "good" and a pool - there are many finer options in the area than Disney's resort properties, and for a lower cost.

We also had some really bad experiences in January. Disney does not have enough staff on property, neither in the parks nor the resorts. And the staff they do have are overwhelmed, overworked, and apparently afraid to do anything about out-of-line guests. There were two times I was afraid for my family's safety due to the behavior of other guests last trip, and honestly that's a new experience for me at WDW. It didn't used to be a place where I felt I needed to be hyper aware of other people, if you know what I mean. I do believe that if Disney doesn't get a handle on the crowding that there are going to be some more "road rage" type incidents in their parks.

WBC is our current favorite, but we also like Floridays and Marriott Harbour. All remarkably better in terms of bang for buck experience. WBC and Floridays pools are better than most Disney resorts other than Yacht Beach in my opinion.

I totally agree about being hyper aware of others. We saw similar things both October and especially February where we were concerned about adult behavior. In October, during F&W, we saw absolutely horrible adult behavior and then watched CM laughing about it. We complained about a group of totally drunk and belligerent young adults dropping F-Bombs left and right around ours and other kids, throwing food, spilling drinks, and the CM's essentially blew us off and said they couldn't do anything about it...so we did, we left. We're simply less profitable than a dozen drunk kids.

That was a good reason Disney was right to not want alcohol in the parks.

 

[akadada]

We reached that point just recently. We were there in Feb of this year and did the whole MB and FP+ thing. It sucked. This was a relatively short 1 week trip.

We, along with several family members and friends, had been planning a long 14 day trip in October of next year. We had several thousand dollars saved for the trip.

We decided to cancel the trip and spent the money toward other vacations today. We will not be going back to Disney any time soon. And we go every year. Maybe 2018 or 2019 when things have worked themselves out with FP+ and Pandora has opened. But not before then. Too many attractions are in need of repair, too many stale attractions, FP+ sucked for us, and just a general feeling of the magic just not being there in the park or in its cast members.

We essentially had the exact same experience February through recently cancelling and going somewhere else.

All of your observations are spot on in our recent experiences.

 

[*disgal*]

sorry, what is Pandora?

 

[lugnut33]

We reached that point just recently. We were there in Feb of this year and did the whole MB and FP+ thing. It sucked. This was a relatively short 1 week trip.

We, along with several family members and friends, had been planning a long 14 day trip in October of next year. We had several thousand dollars saved for the trip.

We decided to cancel the trip and spent the money toward other vacations today. We will not be going back to Disney any time soon. And we go every year. Maybe 2018 or 2019 when things have worked themselves out with FP+ and Pandora has opened. But not before then. Too many attractions are in need of repair, too many stale attractions, FP+ sucked for us, and just a general feeling of the magic just not being there in the park or in its cast members.

Sorry to hear this.

The CMs are just an extension of the attitude they are getting from their supervisors. The stress levels are high there because they are trying to maximize profits while keeping costs down. My relative is working 60-70 hour work weeks there because they are short staffed.

I did the Keys To The Kingdom tour back in Feb. and our guide mentioned that at one point Disney thought this whole FP+ thing was going to be so easy they could just have the Custom Service Reps (the people in the plaid vests you see around and at Town Hall) take care of it. Well, they quickly learned that wasn't going to work, and Team Disney Orlando went on a hiring spree to bring people in to be frontline reps working with FP+.

 

[surferdave]

sorry, what is Pandora?

Pandora, The World of Avatar.

 

[Shaden]

Very glad people are enjoying the thread !!! I think there has been some awesome insight and analysis throughout.

As for the PP, akadada, I am worried our upcoming trip will be similar.

I actually think FP+ is probably generally beneficial during peak days, and of little or no consequence during 1s and 2s (crowd levels) ... its the rest of the year, that FP+ will be a big negative.

We are going mid season, crowd levels 5, first couple weeks of May.

In the past, we could collect FPs all day, in the morning, in the afternoon, in the evening. True, we did see TSMM run out, and just about run out a couple times, but that's the nature of TSMM, not of FP- or +. TSMM is going to run out even faster with pre-booking.

Anyway, FP+ is going to greatly limit this, clearly. Only 3, with tiers. There is very little question we will actually be able to get less done then we used to, and "getting things done" is what we like to do.

I am worried that the upcoming trip is going to turn my family off WDW. I really do think that they will make FP+ better, clearly they are going to make changes, although, they also clearly could have seen this coming (since many of us NOT paid by Disney could see it coming here on the boards) and didn't need to roll out this "test" in the form they did.

But, by the time they improve on FP+, we might have already moved on from WDW. We will see.

 

[akadada]

Very glad people are enjoying the thread !!! I think there has been some awesome insight and analysis throughout.

As for the PP, akadada, I am worried our upcoming trip will be similar.

I actually think FP+ is probably generally beneficial during peak days, and of little or no consequence during 1s and 2s (crowd levels) ... its the rest of the year, that FP+ will be a big negative.

We are going mid season, crowd levels 5, first couple weeks of May.

In the past, we could collect FPs all day, in the morning, in the afternoon, in the evening. True, we did see TSMM run out, and just about run out a couple times, but that's the nature of TSMM, not of FP- or +. TSMM is going to run out even faster with pre-booking.

Anyway, FP+ is going to greatly limit this, clearly. Only 3, with tiers. There is very little question we will actually be able to get less done then we used to, and "getting things done" is what we like to do.

I am worried that the upcoming trip is going to turn my family off WDW. I really do think that they will make FP+ better, clearly they are going to make changes, although, they also clearly could have seen this coming (since many of us NOT paid by Disney could see it coming here on the boards) and didn't need to roll out this "test" in the form they did.

But, by the time they improve on FP+, we might have already moved on from WDW. We will see.

I hope things go well for you and you have a great time even with all of these changes.

The best tip I ever got on going to Disney with my family was to keep smiling because you have to do that for your kids. If they don't think you're having a good time, they may not either. I'm sure you know that already.

Best of luck to you and I hope you come back with a positive report.

 

[jiminyfan]

They state we are getting a better experience with FP+, but numbers show a much different story.


After these APs run out, you can count on three less people for the next few years.

 

[Shaden]

They state we are getting a better experience with FP+, but numbers show a much different story.


After these APs run out, you can count on three less people for the next few years.

Will be interesting to see what happens with the APs.

There have been many people here saying they will be cancelling them, many of them people who have had APs for a long time.

I think this will be an early indicator for WDW of the impact of FP+ on their most loyal guests.

Of course, I don't know how much APs matter to them, I don't know what % of their revenue they represent, but if its important enough, and even if enough (not all, since some people with APs surely love the new system) start dropping off, it will send a message.

I also wouldn't be surprised, IF this did happen, if Disney quickly countered with some PERKS for APs ... 4 FPs a day instead of 3 or something of the like.

They don't have the capacity to hand out 4 to everyone in the park, BUT ... just to the APs in the parks ??? Quite possibly.

 

[mmbl]

They state we are getting a better experience with FP+, but numbers show a much different story. After these APs run out, you can count on three less people for the next few years.

And our 2 as well. Just sorry I encouraged 24 (total) to do our family reunion there this spring. NEVER again! A cheap beach or cabin reunion will be a lot less stressful, less planning and much less money!

 

[mmbl]

Will be interesting to see what happens with the APs. There have been many people here saying they will be cancelling them, many of them people who have had APs for a long time. I think this will be an early indicator for WDW of the impact of FP+ on their most loyal guests. Of course, I don't know how much APs matter to them, I don't know what % of their revenue they represent, but if its important enough, and even if enough (not all, since some people with APs surely love the new system) start dropping off, it will send a message. I also wouldn't be surprised, IF this did happen, if Disney quickly countered with some PERKS for APs ... 4 FPs a day instead of 3 or something of the like. They don't have the capacity to hand out 4 to everyone in the park, BUT ... just to the APs in the parks ??? Quite possibly.

As I have said before, us AP holders, loyal guests have encouraged innumerable others to vacation there. No more.

 

[2Tiggies]

As I have said before, us AP holders, loyal guests have encouraged innumerable others to vacation there. No more.

I think this is something that is often being overlooked. Disney's devoted loyals provide free advertising, help others plan trips, share photos and videos online and create a lot of feel-good publicity as they share and relive their own memories. So when someone who has been a regular visitor and a big fan decides to pull the plug, even if temporarily, there are ripple effects.

 

[KalamityJane]

Yeah, we were going to get APs starting in Nov. and probably take 4 trips. Now I'm planning on only going into the parks for 3 days out of the 10 we will be there and we will not be getting APs.

 

[Shaden]

I think this is something that is often being overlooked. Disney's devoted loyals provide free advertising, help others plan trips, share photos and videos online and create a lot of feel-good publicity as they share and relive their own memories. So when someone who has been a regular visitor and a big fan decides to pull the plug, even if temporarily, there are ripple effects.

Yes indeed, we are seeing a good deal of this on these boards, and while I know that the boards aren't representative of all WDW guests, or even all loyal WDW guests, they do represent SOME of them. It might be 10% or 5% of guests, who knows. But other people feel the same way as people on these boards.

We too stopped recommending WDW to our friends and family. We were about to buy DVC last Spring, and now we are considering this trip might be our last.

Of course, now that Disney has notified us that they will be changing the FP system, and allowing more than 3 FPs per day .... we might swing back the other way again. Just hope they get that in place by May 2nd

 

[Davey Jones II]

The influence of loyal guests like us is incalculable. We are the best word of mouth Disney ever had.

Thanks to my enthusiasm, my girlfriend has made four Disney trips with me; she had never been to a theme park before in her life. My brother and his wife joined me at Disneyland three times; he hadn't been there in 25 years. My parents made their first trip to Orlando (and Florida) with me, and my aunt decided to join us at the last minute.

Those are just a few examples, and probably most people on these boards can give plenty of their own. Disney will lose that invaluable word of mouth if they lose us.

 

[Shaden]

The influence of loyal guests like us is incalculable. We are the best word of mouth Disney ever had.

Thanks to my enthusiasm, my girlfriend has made four Disney trips with me; she had never been to a theme park before in her life. My brother and his wife joined me at Disneyland three times; he hadn't been there in 25 years. My parents made their first trip to Orlando (and Florida) with me, and my aunt decided to join us at the last minute.

Those are just a few examples, and probably most people on these boards can give plenty of their own. Disney will lose that invaluable word of mouth if they lose us.

Very much the same, we have encouraged, suggested, guided, several people to and through WDW vacations. I stopped doing this as FP+ rolled out more seriously....

We will see what the most recent changes do, but I still don't feel comfortable recommending WDW to anyone.

 

[perkinsrose]

Heck I am not so sure Disney shouldn't have kept updating their pal mickey product. They could have gotten a lot of the same information they are getting from their MB technology and people would have paid for Mickey dolls too. If this is just a big information grab there were far smarter ways to get it and make cash too.

YES!
DSon was just saying this the other day.
We still drag Pal Mickey with us for a day or to in the parks but he only speaks up now and then

 

[leebee]

Great discussion! I have been reading it several pages at a time over the last few days.

I don't think Disney will see the true financial impact of FP+ for a year or two. As of now, most people have their vacations planned and are begrudgingly (or not) headed to WDW to give FP+ a try. That's where we are right now… DVC points rented and half-paid for, park passes purchased, flights purchased. I am an official "FP+ Hater" in the truest form, as I haven't "experienced" it yet (and we all know that you can't tell if you won't like something until you've experienced it, right? Um… NO). I know that 3 < 6, I know that we are not rope droppers so we utilized FP- to tour, and that none of this will matter a rat's patootie when we go to Disney in October. October is a done deal, as it's been in the works for 5 years now. I think many people are in this position, feeling as if it's too late cancel. I just don't see how FP+ will work for us, except on arrival day when the plan is to hit Epcot around 2pm on Sat. of Columbus Day weekend. Originally we were going to eat/drink our way around F&W and skip the rides; now we'll do either Soarin or TT, just because we are there and can make a reservation. Other than that one day, I am tearing my hair out over this, trying to decide what park on what day, how to schedule ADRs, etc. I am putting more stress and planning into this WDW vacation than I have put into the previous 24 combined! I am keeping a close eye on Spring Break data and am especially interested in what will happen on either side of Easter, and of course over the summer. I *hope* that there will be enough modifications to FP+ by the time we leave that I won't end up hating this vacation before we ever leave home.

Late at night I think about canceling; UT-purchased park passes are unopened and therefore returnable (or can be saved for a trip WAY in the future), flights are on Southwest purchased with points so fully refundable, other half of DVC doesn't need to be paid until August. I flirt with moving the vacation to Universal to experience WWoHP, Diagon Alley, all the coasters, and only doing a long day at Epcot to go to F&W for DD's birthday celebration. It would definitely cost me extra cash I hadn't planned on, but if I thought it'd fly with DD, I think I'd do it. I just don't see that we'll get much value out of Disney anymore.

SO… watching (like a hawk) and waiting… I have to say, I have never faced a Disney trip with so much trepidation before; definitely not feeling the excitement of returning to my "Happy Place," because I am worried it won't exist.

 

[Shaden]

Great discussion! I have been reading it several pages at a time over the last few days.

I don't think Disney will see the true financial impact of FP+ for a year or two. As of now, most people have their vacations planned and are begrudgingly (or not) headed to WDW to give FP+ a try. That's where we are right now… DVC points rented and half-paid for, park passes purchased, flights purchased. I am an official "FP+ Hater" in the truest form, as I haven't "experienced" it yet (and we all know that you can't tell if you won't like something until you've experienced it, right? Um… NO). I know that 3 < 6, I know that we are not rope droppers so we utilized FP- to tour, and that none of this will matter a rat's patootie when we go to Disney in October. October is a done deal, as it's been in the works for 5 years now. I think many people are in this position, feeling as if it's too late cancel. I just don't see how FP+ will work for us, except on arrival day when the plan is to hit Epcot around 2pm on Sat. of Columbus Day weekend. Originally we were going to eat/drink our way around F&W and skip the rides; now we'll do either Soarin or TT, just because we are there and can make a reservation. Other than that one day, I am tearing my hair out over this, trying to decide what park on what day, how to schedule ADRs, etc. I am putting more stress and planning into this WDW vacation than I have put into the previous 24 combined! I am keeping a close eye on Spring Break data and am especially interested in what will happen on either side of Easter, and of course over the summer. I *hope* that there will be enough modifications to FP+ by the time we leave that I won't end up hating this vacation before we ever leave home.

Late at night I think about canceling; UT-purchased park passes are unopened and therefore returnable (or can be saved for a trip WAY in the future), flights are on Southwest purchased with points so fully refundable, other half of DVC doesn't need to be paid until August. I flirt with moving the vacation to Universal to experience WWoHP, Diagon Alley, all the coasters, and only doing a long day at Epcot to go to F&W for DD's birthday celebration. It would definitely cost me extra cash I hadn't planned on, but if I thought it'd fly with DD, I think I'd do it. I just don't see that we'll get much value out of Disney anymore.

SO… watching (like a hawk) and waiting… I have to say, I have never faced a Disney trip with so much trepidation before; definitely not feeling the excitement of returning to my "Happy Place," because I am worried it won't exist.

Glad you have been enjoying the discussion, and you are VERY much like my family.

We upgraded our 10 day hoppers on our trip last May to APs, locking us in to a trip within the next year, it made leaving WDW much more tolerable knowing we would be back within the year.

We were going to buy DVC, but then decided we should rent instead, to try it out, and to really know what we are getting into.... so we rented points, paid in full, no refund available. ... We have been FULLY locked in since Aug, and then we watched all the FP+ BS unravel, the slow extension of FP+, the tiering, and then the pulling out the rug from underneath everyone in some cases like a week or two before they were set to arrive ... and removing FP- ... but there has really not been much we could do, I even though about trying to cancel, and see if we could get a partial refund, but, that's just not going to happen.

We are going with the fair certainty we wont get as much value for our money this trip, we wont be able to do as much. We used to Rope drop about 70% of our days, and we would fastpass all day long, since we go in "Medium" season, if you pick the right park, totally able to do this with FP- ....

IF ... big if, the changes allowing more than 3 FP+ are rolled out by May, it might make the system work better for us, but we will have to see.

I have a feeling Disney is already seeing some of fallout from this, otherwise they wouldn't be making this change ...

 

[Don Disney]

Uncertainty for booking another trip is alive and well for us...