Time for Disney to change the FP policy....

[twix123]

This is just a hypothetical question. Can you answer it or not?

I did answer it in a prevoious post. I gave you 4 good reasons why you may be late, plus there are many more alltertives that can happened.

 

[Cals dad]

It's 10:00 AM, you're in the MK, and you have a FP that says come back between 12:00 and 1:00 PM. Can you give me one instance that will cause you to miss your FP return time?

I see I have a 3 hours before my return time is expired. Say this FP is for Space Mountain. I take my family over to PotC, and then after that we get a bite to eat. At 11:30 I have an hour and a half left. I decide to take my family onto Splash Mountain. The standby line is only 45 minutes. I should have no problems making back to Space Mountain by 1. I am 20 minutes into my wait and oh no! Here comes a group of 300 brazillians using their fastpasses(ontime). My wait has gone to 90 minutes. I will now be late for my FP return time. Add in that there is an elderly gentleman in a wheelchair that will be getting on before me. That makes the loading time even longer.

You see, unless they want people to just hang around and do nothing but hang outside the FP queue until their time is available, they have to accept late FP. In a place where the standby lines can be over an hour for a lot of rides, especially during busy seasons, there is nothing they can do.

If you say "Don't get the fastpass if you can't come back during that time", they you would have to also make the FP for a certain ride to never run out. I'm not going to hang around waiting for a FP that isn't occuring during the times I have an ADR, that the parade is occuring, and during the return time I have for a FP that I got in the morning that isn't good until late in the day (think TSM).

 

[twix123]

I see I have a 3 hours before my return time is expired. Say this FP is for Space Mountain. I take my family over to PotC, and then after that we get a bite to eat. At 11:30 I have an hour and a half left. I decide to take my family onto Splash Mountain. The standby line is only 45 minutes. I should have no problems making back to Space Mountain by 1. I am 20 minutes into my wait and oh no! Here comes a group of 300 brazillians using their fastpasses(ontime). My wait has gone to 90 minutes. I will now be late for my FP return time. Add in that there is an elderly gentleman in a wheelchair that will be getting on before me. That makes the loading time even longer.

You see, unless they want people to just hang around and do nothing but hang outside the FP queue until their time is available, they have to accept late FP. In a place where the standby lines can be over an hour for a lot of rides, especially during busy seasons, there is nothing they can do.

If you say "Don't get the fastpass if you can't come back during that time", they you would have to also make the FP for a certain ride to never run out. I'm not going to hang around waiting for a FP that isn't occuring during the times I have an ADR, that the parade is occuring, and during the return time I
have for a FP that I got in the morning that isn't good until late in the day (think TSM).

This

 

[JimmyV]

It's not completely crazy. I think the PP means if your commute is 45 minutes under perfect circumstances you really should allow an hour because really, how often do perfect circumstances occur? And if you only leave 45 mins...you really have no excuse for being late if there is a breakdown on the expressway because there is ALWAYS a breakdown on the expressway.

I see the logic.

Just adding balance to the discussion.

Yes, but it is a false logic due to the space/time continuum. Let's say that there is ALWAYS a wreck on the highway. Unless you can predict when the wreck will occur, leaving earlier doesn't necessarily help you. If you leave 15 minutes early to give yourself extra time, you might be placing yourself IN the wreck that you otherwise would have been behind had you left at your normal time. Or you might not be IN the wreck, but you might be directly behind it with no hope of taking an alternate route to avoid a traffic jam. And if you left at your normal time, you might have had the benefit of a traffic report that warned you to take an alternate route.

So, to beat the system, you leave even EARLIER. But now you might be placing yourself in the path of another wreck that you would have avoided had you left later. And so on. At some point, you can plan ahead for so many contingencies that you leave ridiculously early. And if none of those contingencies occur, you get to work several hours early. And I would fire this person for poor judgment and poor time management. I'd rather have a punctual employee who is late on occassion due to a few unforseeable and unavoidable circumstances.

 

[4minutesflorida]

Here is the most absurd thing about fastpass enforcement apologists.

Their worst nightmare, and the crux of all their arguments, are the phantom mobs all using fastpasses at the same time.

Yet if Disney were to enforce return times they would have to increase the window, and the probability that large groups would enter the fastpass line at the same time would be greater or the same as when return times were not enforced. Even though the quantity of fastpasses that can be used in that window is smaller, the window is also shorter making the probability for the phantom mob equivalent to what it is now.

 

[Cals dad]

Another thing to think of for all you that say one day Disney will start enforcing return times.

If you start making it to where people feel they have to rush over to make their time, then you open yourselves up to all sorts of other problems. Someone twists their ankle due to feeling them have to hurry. BOOM - lawsuit. Someone's kid gets knocked over and breaks their nose on the concrete because someone was rushing to make their return time. BOOM - lawsuit.

Also, if someone is leaving a ride with say 20 minutes before their return time is up, they may not want to wander through the gift shop and buy something, or they may rush their children right past all the expensive toys because they don't want to be late. Missed sales for Disney. That's the true reason for the fastpasses. Not just for our convenience, but because a guest standing in lines all day isn't spending their money getting food, or taking their time in gift shops.

 

[morethananyonex]

Here is the most absurd thing about fastpass enforcement apologists.

Their worst nightmare, and the crux of all their arguments, are the phantom mobs all using fastpasses at the same time.

Yet if Disney were to enforce return times they would have to increase the window, and the probability that large groups would enter the fastpass line at the same time would be greater or the same as when return times were not enforced. Even though the quantity of fastpasses that can be used in that window is smaller, the window is also shorter making the probability for the phantom mob equivalent to what it is now.

Shhhhh, don't force them to use logic, or they wouldn't be on team enforcement in the first place

Also, if the OP didn't arrive just after 2 (arguably before the return time of 2:15), and arrived sometime in his (or her? sorry) window, there would have been no issues with the giant influx of Brazilians (this still makes me giggle, I'm mature) in the first place. But sometimes logic makes it very hard to complain about things without them being pinned back on you .

 

[bwilcox]

Yes.

Think of other controversial "perks" like pool-hopping and even mugs. Or people making multiple ADRs for the same day and time... recently disallowed.

Disney always cracks down.... eventually.

Pool-hopping, using refillable mugs from previous visits, and making multiple ADRs were never allowed by WDW. They were always against the rules; it's just that some people broke the rules and got away with it for a while. Using FPs late is not against WDW's rules since they have an unwritten policy of accepting late FPs and even teach their CMs in training that late FPs are OK.

 

[Magalex]

I haven't read all the posts. But I think the FP system should stay the same & I understand the OP's complaint. If it was my family in the situation I would think bad luck on our part. But one thing I do wonder is why Disney management doesn't provide a better system to handle these extremely large summer groups. They know the time of year when these groups fill the park. Maybe at the most popular attractions they can have a system to filter them in a separate line during different times of the day with CMs that would watch over these groups when they arrive at the most popular attraction. Disney could define when they need to implement the system upon how many are in a tour group. Instead of beating up the FP debate. So let Disney work on a system to manage their large tour group guests without interfering the avg. family and making everyone happy

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Yes, but it is a false logic due to the space/time continuum. Let's say that there is ALWAYS a wreck on the highway. Unless you can predict when the wreck will occur, leaving earlier doesn't necessarily help you. If you leave 15 minutes early to give yourself extra time, you might be placing yourself IN the wreck that you otherwise would have been behind had you left at your normal time. Or you might not be IN the wreck, but you might be directly behind it with no hope of taking an alternate route to avoid a traffic jam. And if you left at your normal time, you might have had the benefit of a traffic report that warned you to take an alternate route.

So, to beat the system, you leave even EARLIER. But now you might be placing yourself in the path of another wreck that you would have avoided had you left later. And so on. At some point, you can plan ahead for so many contingencies that you leave ridiculously early. And if none of those contingencies occur, you get to work several hours early. And I would fire this person for poor judgment and poor time management. I'd rather have a punctual employee who is late on occassion due to a few unforseeable and unavoidable circumstances.

seriously...what?

You don't allow for traffic when you need to be some where on time because of your space time continuum theory? or do you say..."well it's rush hour so I better leave a little early if I want to get there on time?"

ok..so you fire the employee who gets to work early... and I'll fire the guy that is chroncially late and blames traffic.

I don't even know what this has to do with FP anymore. I love the late FP system and use it every trip!

 

[mom2rtk]

I haven't read all the posts. But I think the FP system should stay the same & I understand the OP's complaint. If it was my family in the situation I would think bad luck on our part. But one thing I do wonder is why Disney management doesn't provide a better system to handle these extremely large summer groups. They know the time of year when these groups fill the park. Maybe at the most popular attractions they can have a system to filter them in a separate line during different times of the day with CMs that would watch over these groups when they arrive at the most popular attraction. Disney could define when they need to implement the system upon how many are in a tour group. Instead of beating up the FP debate. So let Disney work on a system to manage their large tour group guests without interfering the avg. family and making everyone happy

Except that I don't think these large tour groups want to be filtered in. From everything I have heard and seen their goal is to stay together as much as possible...... right down to linking arms in a line a hundred long to stay together as they exit the park.

 

[JimmyV]

I don't even know what this has to do with FP anymore. I love the late FP system and use it every trip!

Exactly.

I was only 20% serious. (The point being that, yes, you can adjust for "heavy traffic" by leaving early. But you cannot adjust for an accident unless you know when the accident is going to occur. hookedonears' post seems to suggest that you can. But you can't.)

 

[si-am]

Pool-hopping, using refillable mugs from previous visits, and making multiple ADRs were never allowed by WDW. They were always against the rules; it's just that some people broke the rules and got away with it for a while. Using FPs late is not against WDW's rules since they have an unwritten policy of accepting late FPs and even teach their CMs in training that late FPs are OK.

That's not true.

Pool hopping used to be allowed. Mugs used to be "forever," and people were able to book the ADRs right there on Disney's website.

 

[jesswindsor]

I really don't mind the current FP policy, but I wouldn't mind a change. I hate the mad dash to get your FP's for the rides that you want. I would kinda like to see the FP's machines be removed from the parks and moved to the resorts, you pop in your card and pick a park, and then pick some FP's. I think this would add a reason to stay on property. Anyway, I think FP's is a good idea, but I think Disney can improve it.

 

[jak07]

[Originally Posted by hookedonears
It's 10:00 AM, you're in the MK, and you have a FP that says come back between 12:00 and 1:00 PM. Can you give me one instance that will cause you to miss your FP return time?/QUOTE]

There are many instances, but I will give you a few, even though you asked for one.

You have an adr and you leave really late from there because you're on the dining plan, and the machine went down, so you have to wait for it to come back up. (This actually happened to the table next to us a Le Cellier. The machine went down and they had to wait for it to come back up because they were on the dining plan. They were freaking out and yelling at her about missing their fp time for soarin, until my dh and I calmly explained that they could use it after the time.

As you are walking back to use your fp, your child has a accident in their pants. You find the nearest bathroom, and have to clean them up, which takes time.

You have a reservation at the Harmony Barber Shop. Penny and Michael are very behind because the other barber is on break. Since there are not any other times available during your trip, you stick it out.

Your waiting in line so your child can meet their favorite character. They won't be available the rest of the day after your fp time, so you have to do it now. Due to the heat, they are taking a lot of breaks. All of the kids in front of you have autograph books and want pictures.

You get caught in a downpour. I'm not talking a just throw on a poncho and walk rain, I am talking about a DOWNPOUR!! One where you cannot even see in front of you and there is a lot of lightning.

 

[keishashadow]

You are so right. This is something that Universal does so much better than Disney. We never go to Universal without staying at one of their resorts and this is the reason. I have heard people say that this would not work at WDW because Disney has more hotel rooms. But Disney has more parks and more rides than Universal so I think that Disney could try some form of Universal's system.

I also like your suggestion of having the special resort guest lines instead of EMH. Instead of offering a perk that concentrates all guests in one park at a time, it would allow resort guests to be spread throughout WDW. That might go a long way in dispersing the crowds.

I do love Universal FOTL perc, don't think it'd work @ Disney though as guests could decide to do a marathon TSM day. Even if they limited it to 1 FP per attraction it'd get unweildy.

Hey everyone! I just heard a rumor Disney will be changing the fine print on the back of the fastpasses to read:

(1) You must enter between the times posted, NO EXCEPTIONS.
(2) Please plan to arrive AT LEAST an hour before the earliest posted time in order to account for possible death, accidents, injuries, thirst, hunger, bodily functions, Brazilians, character encounters, transportation issues, terrorist attacks, temper tantrums, weather, RFID mug issues, DIS drama and ECVs.

naturally printed in tiny typeface!

I really don't mind the current FP policy, but I wouldn't mind a change. I hate the mad dash to get your FP's for the rides that you want. I would kinda like to see the FP's machines be removed from the parks and moved to the resorts, you pop in your card and pick a park, and then pick some FP's. I think this would add a reason to stay on property. Anyway, I think FP's is a good idea, but I think Disney can improve it.

This idea was patented by disney few years ago, apparently tied into the level of resort/$ spent...quite the discussion here as to unfairness of Deluxe/DVC resorts getting preference over mods & values. Nothing has come of it yet, but i fully expect some format that would generate additional revenue to be tested, either tied to resort (a good way to justify pricey rack rates)/spending/or a MYW tix add-on option (ala PH).

 

[xiaoiao]

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

Exactly.

I was only 20% serious. (The point being that, yes, you can adjust for "heavy traffic" by leaving early. But you cannot adjust for an accident unless you know when the accident is going to occur. hookedonears' post seems to suggest that you can. But you can't.)

yes.

and actually I was wrong about 300 late-FP-carrying Brazilians unduly effecting one's wait time if the FP queue was empty. it actually only effects one's wait time unduly if the stand by queue empties...and that never happens so it is irrelevant.

It's all about perspective really. If I get in a stand by queue and the wait says 10 minutes, I expect to wait 10 minutes. If 300 late FPers show up, I will now wait 60 minutes.

Even though the wait time was actually always 60 minutes....if people bellyache about that I totally understand why. It feels like you got screwed, even if - like me - you completely understand how the system works and use late FPs also.

 

[Mr. Stitch]

I feel stupid, I always adhere to my fast pass return times. Sometimes rushing to not be late, hm. I just assumed this is what you were suppose to do, get a pass, reserve a time, ride the ride. I did not realize it was an open window. Being completely serious. I guess I am too regimented (sp?) in my planning.

Why have a return time listed at all? I guess they have to break up the crowd somehow. I did not read the whole thread just the first and last couple pages, made very little sense, but I am sure I got the jist.

 

[Pig Pen]

If those people had shown up at the end of their time period, they still would have done the EXACT same thing to the line that you witnessed, but you wouldn't have been there to witness it. However, the line would have been the same distance back because the same clump of people came through...you just wouldn't have known why. An hour and a half after the group in front of you went through, no one knew what happened b/c they didn't witness it.

If you had gotten stuck somewhere else, and had wanted to use your now-too-late FP, you would want an exception, so don't be too quick to say that others cannot use them late.

But...only a certain number of FPs are issued for a particular time period so theoretically there would have been less "non-Brazilian" FP holders during the assigned time period. I know that in reality it doesn't work that way...but in theory....