Splash Mountain to become Princess and the Frog ride

[Heather07438]

So I am not upset that they took a classic ride and are changing it. However, I have a different opinion of them taking the iconic elegant castle and deciding to paint it pink with bluish purple towers...

Just wait until you see it in a sunset, on a hazy day, on a beautiful day...

The newly painted castle is going to look amazing in every back drop!

 

[Marionnette]

Ironically, I just watch the Imagineering Story episode #5 (A Carousel of Progress) on Disney+ last night. Around 27 minutes in, Kim Irvine starts to address reimagining classic attractions and the backlash they often receive from fans over their choices when they are announced. “Beforehand, it’s pretty rough”, she said after stating that quite often fans find that they like the changes after seeing them IRL.

I will point out to Disney, that the Journey into Imagination was better in it’s original form and its subsequent versions have never been considered to be improvements by the fans. Since you’ve decided that Tiana doesn’t deserve a brand new attraction of her own, Disney, you had better get this right. Knock my socks off and make me love it! Don’t give me a tired remake of Splash complete with reconfigured animatronics in a riverboat scene. Make it truly fresh and new. Give me a backstory that I can appreciate. Don’t just repaint a few scenes and toss Tiana or Naveen in there every few feet and call it a day.

 

[Jiminy76]

Just wait until you see it in a sunset, on a hazy day, on a beautiful day...

The newly painted castle is going to look amazing in every back drop!

I'm reserving judgement on the new castle colors until I can see it in person. It looks a bit bright from the pictures I have seen so far. Perhaps they went a few shades bright knowing the sun would eventually bring it down a bit in regards to brightness.

 

[jerry557]

Ironically, I just watch the Imagineering Story episode #5 (A Carousel of Progress) on Disney+ last night. Around 27 minutes in, Kim Irvine starts to address reimagining classic attractions and the backlash they often receive from fans over their choices when they are announced. “Beforehand, it’s pretty rough”, she said after stating that quite often fans find that they like the changes after seeing them IRL.

Because people give up complaining when it's already done. So there is no point in discussing it again. It doesn't mean people like it.

Just like they recently changed POTC because a few people thought it was sexist. They didn't do it to make the ride better. They did it purely for social justice reasons. But I'm not a fan of the change. I think it was completely unnecessary and makes no sense. But I don't talk about it anymore because there is no point in debating it anymore.

So what attraction is next to get a social justice re-theme?

 

[BrianL]

I made the mistake of going back and reading the thread when I knew I shouldn't.

Some of you have wildly disappointed me. It's very easy to sit up and say you aren't offended when the offence wasn't directed at you or "your kind".
For those of you saying kids don't even know, my nephew is 14, we just had a convo last year some time about it because he came to me highly upset because he's into Disney history and imagineering and he researched/read on his own and found out. He wanted to know WHY I had not told him this and how could Disney have something like that.

There are some of you in this thread who did a really good job explaining why this was the appropriate thing for Disney to do and I really appreciate that because I am not good at doing so, especially about these emotionally fueled topics.

ETA: I have never once felt anything other than a camaraderie with other Disney lovers on this board, but today in this thread I don't. This is probably the first time I'm actually felt sad and shed a couple of tears (mainly out of frustration) reading this thread.

May I just say that I do appreciate where you are coming from. I hope that my issues with the changes being made were not taken as offensive by you. There are very complex issues involved. You are right in that it is easy for many to ride Splash Mountain and not see anything offensive. I really never did. I didn't even know for years that it was based on Song of the South, though I had actually seen the movie when I was very young - it was generally quite unmemorable to me. I did know Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah from a Disney songs cassette I had. So for me, Splash Mountain was pretty much a new exposure and what happens is that the content in question begins to have a different meaning. I don't think Imagineers in the 1980s built it to be intentionally racist, however that doesn't mean that there are not inherent problems. Walt Disney, a man I think we all want to love and respect, was still a product of his time. He probably didn't think of the movie as racist either, nor did the star, James Baskett. Purportedly, Walt really liked James and helped him out a lot, but Walt still held the premier an Atlanta and James could not attend in the segregated city - a decision that was clearly wrong.

Persepectives are unique. Has everyone that has ridden Splash Mountain, even those who are people of color, found it to be offensive? Probably not - but you're right, how many people is it okay to offend? Some will say that it's just a fantasy story - and it is - but it shouldn't discount anyone's feelings. I have mentioned for a long time the possibliity of "rehabilitation" of the original folklore, though I do understand why that may not work for everybody. In the end, I beocome mostly concerned with the impact to the parks, possibly to the exclusion of other concerns, and I apologize if I have said anything to offend you.

 

[MickeyWaffles]

Since you’ve decided that Tiana doesn’t deserve a brand new attraction of her own, Disney, you had better get this right. Knock my socks off and make me love it! Don’t give me a tired remake of Splash complete with reconfigured animatronics in a riverboat scene. Make it truly fresh and new. Give me a backstory that I can appreciate. Don’t just repaint a few scenes and toss Tiana or Naveen in there every few feet and call it a day.

No one seems to be talking about the fact that Tony Baxter is involved in the re-theming. The man who actually came up with the idea for Splash Mountain. He’s contributing to the re-theme of “his” ride.

Charita leading and Tony Baxter involved? It’s gonna be good.

 

[BrianL]

Because people give up complaining when it's already done. So there is no point in discussing it again. It doesn't mean people like it.

Just like they recently changed POTC because a few people thought it was sexist. They didn't do it to make the ride better. They did it purely for social justice reasons. But I'm not a fan of the change. I think it was completely unnecessary and makes no sense. But I don't talk about it anymore because there is no point in debating it anymore.

So what attraction is next to get a social justice re-theme?

I like Pirate Redd, but I would have written the scene differently. The crowd would still shout that they want the redhead, but then she'd give them the business for it, maybe shoot one of them. That makes it funny, as the original scene was intended to be.

 

[Mit88]

No one seems to be talking about the fact that Tony Baxter is involved in the re-theming. The man who actually came up with the idea for Splash Mountain. He’s contributing to the re-theme of “his” ride.

Charita leading and Tony Baxter involved? It’s gonna be good.

My feelings exactly. I’m not in the least bit worried. I don’t think an overhaul like this is subject to any type of budget restraints

 

[SaintsManiac]

I'm dying over people thinking all of Louisiana is a swamp.

 

[andyman8]

Ironically, I just watch the Imagineering Story episode #5 (A Carousel of Progress) on Disney+ last night. Around 27 minutes in, Kim Irvine starts to address reimagining classic attractions and the backlash they often receive from fans over their choices when they are announced. “Beforehand, it’s pretty rough”, she said after stating that quite often fans find that they like the changes after seeing them IRL.

I will point out to Disney, that the Journey into Imagination was better in it’s original form and its subsequent versions have never been considered to be improvements by the fans. Since you’ve decided that Tiana doesn’t deserve a brand new attraction of her own, Disney, you had better get this right. Knock my socks off and make me love it! Don’t give me a tired remake of Splash complete with reconfigured animatronics in a riverboat scene. Make it truly fresh and new. Give me a backstory that I can appreciate. Don’t just repaint a few scenes and toss Tiana or Naveen in there every few feet and call it a day.

I will say that Journey Into Imagination (and many of the Epcot FW pavilions) is sort of a precarious case. Unlike most Disney attractions (including Splash Mountain), Imagination wasn’t just Disney calling the shots. Kodak was the premier sponsor for that attraction (and had provided a large chunk of funding for it), which gave them more control of not only the attraction’s creative direction but also the budget. Disney had set up language in the FW sponsorship agreements that, only if Disney deemed it necessary, the sponsor would have to financially contribute significantly to a redo of the pavilion/attraction every 10 years. In return, the sponsor had control over the creative and financial constraints of that redo (because they were basically paying for most of it). In the late ‘90s, Disney determined that a redo of Journey Into Imagination was necessary but Kodak was not in a strong financial situation, so they basically gave Disney pennies to work with and exercised rather heavy control over the creative direction of the project to make sure costs were kept low. The end result was a rather unremarkable attraction (followed by another unremarkable attraction). This is not a situation Disney has to deal with for the Splash redo.

 

[Krandor]

"The Song of the South" derives from Joel Chandler Harris' "Uncle Remus: His Songs and His Sayings" It is a compilation of stories derived from the oral folklore tradition of former slaves as collected by white journalist. Harris is often credited with retaining the dialect in the stories, which was done in an effort to preserve authenticity. Mark Twain, who used the same device in "Huckleberry Finn" notably credited it for this.

There are questions about exactly how accurate his retellings were and many scholars have criticisms of his role as an authority. More pointedly he has long been criticized for creating patronizing and damaging stereotypes that romanticize the antebellum era -- which can be seen in the Disney film.

Alice Walker's 1985 essay "Uncle Remus: No Friend of Mine" is one of the most pointed criticisms of Harris's works. I cannot find an online version of that but the link below is from a talk she gave in 1981 to the Atlanta Historical Society on the same topic. She includes her feelings regarding the Disney movie in this essay.

https://books.google.com/books?id=m...=snippet&q=atlanta historical society&f=false

Wow. Thanks for posting that link. I learned a lot reading that. The issues with SotS go a lot deeper then I was aware of.

 

[Mit88]

I'm dying over people thinking all of Louisiana is a swamp.

New York is only New York City.

When I was living in Denver, people would ask me during the summer how much snow was on the ground.And they weren’t kidding. It’s hotter in parts of Colorado in the summer than states north of the mason dixon line.

 

[JM_97]

If Disney didn't already buy the Simpsons from Fox, we'd probably get another scene of them making fun of all this like they did for Pirates of the Caribbean.

(Skip to 0:26)

 

[FutureDisneyEventPlanner]

I've said my thoughts about this and this is the last thing I'm going to say...I love Disney immensely, but they will literally do and say what they need to do to appeal to the masses. People are congratulating them for being "woke", even though they do a lot of sketchy things. They fact that they felt the need to include the statement of "we've been working on this since last year", which we all know is probably not true, but was said to make themselves look good in our current climate.

I'm sure the ride will be great, and I'll miss Splash dearly, but doing something because you're pressured to do it, and not because it's actually the right thing to do, rubs me the wrong way.

 

[jdisnut]

"Song of the South" was released in 1946. It was accused of being racist almost immediately. The film has never been released on home video. So the Disney company has always known that this is a movie better relegated to the annals of history.

And yet, Disney went ahead and decided to create an attraction themed to characters from "Song of the South..." in 1989! Just writing that is insane to me. In 1989, Disney decided it was a good idea to make an attraction based on "Song of the South." It's crazy to even think about. And Disney was well aware of the potential problems., There's a reason why Disney has worked so hard to ensure that most guests never know that Splash Mountain is tied to a movie. The main character of the film, Uncle Remus, is eliminated altogether, as he should be. Disney hopes that riders don't realize the experience they're enjoying is based on a racist film that will never been seen again in this country in any meaningful way.

Given all of that, it's hard to argue that this is the right call. Frankly, Splash Mountain never should have been to "Song of the South." Disney knew that in 1989. It certainly knows it now.

 

[rteetz]

I'm dying over people thinking all of Louisiana is a swamp.

I was in NOLA in February. It definitely isn’t.

 

[rteetz]

Put on Princess and the Frog since I haven’t seen it in a while.

 

[chasgoose]

The ride is based upon the folklore that appeared in the movie which happened to be around for quite some time before the movie. Not sure that makes the ride entirely themed after the movie Song of the South. Disney has a long history of taking existing folklore or existing stories that are in the public domain and spinning them into their own stories and movies.

"It's a film about Uncle Remus, set in post slavery reconstruction Georgia in the 1800's where all of the people of color in the film are SUPER happy about everything - which is problematic" Not sure I understand your reasoning here. Would it have not been as problematic is they were unhappy in the movie?

It's problematic because given that the film is set in the 1870s it means the black characters in the film were literally OWNED by the white characters less than a decade earlier. Depicting them as super happy about everything and delighted to stay with their former slave masters is incredibly problematic and is part of the "Lost Cause" mythology that supported Jim Crow and white supremacy well after the end of the Civil War. Sure, the black characters don't have to be super unhappy and grim and dark, but they barely seem believable as human beings (for example, based on a few clips I have seen, Hattie McDaniel's character makes her character in Gone With the Wind seem downright woke and nuanced).

 

[DisneyAuntie12]

So what attraction is next to get a social justice re-theme?

Jungle Cruise is already trending on Twitter with mentions of Peter Pan.

Very mixed feelings on Peter Pan. I love the movie so much as a kid, and it was one of the first Disney rides, but the depictions of Native Americans as 'the red man' are pretty bad. I would want to know more about how Native Americans feel about that before deciding what I think. Jungle Cruise could hopefully be changed with a few modifications, the general ride left intact.

As for Splash Mountain - doubt many will agree, but all social justice issues aside, I love the idea of replacing it with a Princess and the Frog ride anyways. I'd be for it even if Splash Mountain wasn't considered offensive.

 

[Krandor]

I've said my thoughts about this and this is the last thing I'm going to say...I love Disney immensely, but they will literally do and say what they need to do to appeal to the masses. People are congratulating them for being "woke", even though they do a lot of sketchy things. They fact that they felt the need to include the statement of "we've been working on this since last year", which we all know is probably not true, but was said to make themselves look good in our current climate.

I'm sure the ride will be great, and I'll miss Splash dearly, but doing something because you're pressured to do it, and not because it's actually the right thing to do, rubs me the wrong way.

If people find a ride offensive which clearly appears to be the case here then changing it is the right thing to do. Walt Disney World should be the happiest place on earth for ALL people.