So tired of the "teachers work for free every day" FB posts

[DawnM]

I didn't go in to teaching for the pay. However, salaries vary around the country and I am very surprised at some of the low salaries some get. In NC, I would have taken a 50% pay cut over my salary in CA. I don't know how any person could be head of household and be a beginning teacher in NC. Heck, not even sure you could support a family and be up the salary scale a bit.

Beginning Salary: $30K incoming

Outgoing:
Health insurance for the family: 6,000
Taxes: 5,000 (roughly depending on deductions, etc...)

If you have only $18K to work with and still have to pay for a place to live, transportation, and food, etc.....I really don't know how you could support a family.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I didn't go in to teaching for the pay. However, salaries vary around the country and I am very surprised at some of the low salaries some get. In NC, I would have taken a 50% pay cut over my salary in CA. I don't know how any person could be head of household and be a beginning teacher in NC. Heck, not even sure you could support a family and be up the salary scale a bit.

Beginning Salary: $30K incoming

Outgoing:
Health insurance for the family: 6,000
Taxes: 5,000 (roughly depending on deductions, etc...)

If you have only $18K to work with and still have to pay for a place to live, transportation, and food, etc.....I really don't know how you could support a family.

I don't know that teacher pay has ever been considered as a good choice for a single income family. That said, your housing costs in CA are likely at least triple those of NC, so it's not really an apples & apples comparison.

 

[dbramer]

If teachers are doing all that during the breaks at school then why do they so often complain that they need to do it in the evenings, on their "own" time?

Teachers can choose to get paid for those summer months; they can have their yearly salary distributed over 12 months instead of 10.

I know what teachers make in my town; it's public information, and I take the time to look to see what taxpayers are paying these "underpaid" souls. I hardly think that for 180 days (plus several extra days before/after school start and end) that the salaries are low, especially once taking into account funded pensions and free health care. Many teachers in my town earn over $90,000 a year.

Not every district offers that. I have to work a job over the summer to pay the bills. And taking a huge pay cut, at that. I coach soccer, which adds to my time and the compensation works out to be about 2.50 an hour for the amount of work I put in. As for pay scales, they also differ among districts. In order to make 90,000 a year in my district, I would need a PhD and have 15 years in the system. I have a Masters degree plus 30 additional credits and have been a teacher for 14 years. My pay just hit 60k. Any other "profession" that is close to the starting wage. Where is healthcare free? And making 90k a year...I need to move to that district. I pay over $400 every two weeks for my "free" healthcare for my family. I work in a Title I school which requires additional work hours with mandatory coach classes twice a week and test prep classes once every other week.

I get one 30 minute duty free lunch and a 37 minute planning period which is frequently taken by coverage for teachers who are out because we cannot afford substitutes. My lunch is frequently spent with students who request additional assistance, but cannot stay after school due to familial commitments. My planning period is often spent the same way. In any other profession (with a few exceptions), you can walk away for five minutes to use the bathroom or grab a cigarette (if you smoke) or just take a break if you need one. We cannot leave our classrooms for any reason while students are present. I have to write passes for children to use the bathroom and I have to hold it until my planning period or lunch.

Other professions may have to take work home and work off hours, but the compensation is considerably higher than most public servants. I believe police and firefighters fall into this same bucket. Teachers stand out a bit because we are all college educated (and then some) individuals. Our compensation pales in comparison to most other college educated professions in this country.

We used to be exempt from layoffs and furloughs, but we are no longer a recession-proof profession. We lost eight teachers this past school year, two in my department. I have already been told my classes will be thirty plus to begin with. They used to cap classes at 29, that cap has now increased to 39. Imagine any other profession where you are asked to supervise and manage almost 40 "employees" for 90 minutes in a contained area. Add to that that these "employees" are teenagers or children.

/end rant

 

[ColoradoDisneyFreaks]

So here's an alternate view. Times are hard, for a lot of people. When a teacher posts a rant on social media, they're essentially complaining that they don't make enough money, or they're under appreciated, what is read is that they want more, they are entitled to more. When the reader sees that, and looks at their own situation, where they're barely scraping by, and have to pay hundreds of dollars a month in daycare costs for their children during holidays and summers, what they're seeing is the teacher complaining that the reader should give more to them because they deserve it, after all, that's where teacher salaries come from. So they get angry, and offended, and strike back at the teacher because they feel like they've given a lot, and are still asked to sacrifice a lot to help fund schools, this is just one more straw on the camel's back.

There are a LOT of school districts that are horrible managed, with too many levels of district management that people have to pay for and too few of the district resources going to the schools, but, there is also a LOT of politics that are being played on both sides of the coin, teacher's unions and management both. It's not exclusively the fault of the teachers, and not exclusively the fault of the taxpayers, but it's being distilled down to the personal level which is where the disagreements come from.

Most people know teachers work hard, and yes, we know that they have to spend personal time doing work, we all do, and we appreciate it, but are the completely wrong audience to vent to. Just like teachers are the wrong audience to vent about having to pay high property taxes to.

 

[DawnM]

I don't know that teacher pay has ever been considered as a good choice for a single income family. That said, your housing costs in CA are likely at least triple those of NC, so it's not really an apples & apples comparison.

True, although one thing that was so awesome about my district was that even if you worked part time, you got full health benefits (medical, dental, and vision) included with NO cost to the employee. That was huge for us.

But I left near the top of the salary scale and it would be easier to live on that than the bottom for sure.

 

[Tigger1]

Just read a few of these post but Wow, teachers make $90,000 somewhere. In Oklahoma you might reach 50,000 if you have a Doctor's Degree, and have taught the max years and teach special ed, sports or career tech. Starting pay is currently $31,600 and goes up about $400 per year until the 25th year of teaching. We do get health insurance but to add a spouse and children it cost well above $1000 per month.

Facebook friends and teachers I work with rarely complain about pay or hours, not that we are happy with our wages. We do get a little vocal when the school is out of staples and paper for the copy machine. Nearly running out of toliet paper has been a problem but our school was able to come up with some. It just really sucks we should have to worry about running out of stuff.

Problems that schools are having now is lack of applicants. Schools will have a really difficult time getting applicants if Minimum wage goes up to $15/hr and you do not have to have a degree.
40 hours times 50 weeks times $15 = $30,000

 

[DawnM]

If some of you don't have the option though your school district to be paid over 12 months instead of 10, you can set up a system with your bank to take out the amount needed so that it will indeed be split between 12 months.

My school district actually had 13thly pay (yes, that is what they called it) so that we received a paycheck every 4th Friday. I MUCH preferred it, it kept me on track financially and I based all my bills off of the check as if it were given once per month. That 13th check was used for fun/extras and allowed me to vacation and/or save every year.

 

[PsychoCelloChica]

I'm not a teacher, but I am a public sector union employee. So, in some ways, I have a great deal of sympathy for teacher (especially when it comes to dealing with public opinion about salaries/benefits/etc.). In other ways, I'm not as sympathetic. Most state employees where I live aren't salaried. Sure, it looks like we are, but we are actually paid on an hourly basis when our pay is calculated and our leave time is charged. Our contract specifies exactly what our duties are, how long we may work, when overtime kicks in, exactly when we must take our paid and unpaid breaks... everything is spelled out in contract. For our protection and management's.

A lot of the teacher complaints I have seen are about doing work that is not covered under the contract. Did you volunteer to come in early to advise that student club? Are you required to go in a week early in August to decorate? If I stay late to work on a case because I feel like I 'should', I'm not going to get paid for it unless I received pre-authorization for the overtime. In fact, I could be disciplined for working outside my hours. Because even if it helps my client, it hurts my union brothers and sisters by skewing the data of what can be accomplished in the time we are paid for. If you want to be paid for all the work you do, first you'll have to stop voluntarily doing unpaid work.

We work to contract every day. Because if we work more hours than what our contract specifies, we are working for free. And decreasing our own worth in the eyes of our employer... "why pay them more or hire more people if they'll do it for free?"

 

[DawnM]

Actually, even though I was salaried, my check did show an hourly wage.

As for teachers coming in a week early, yeah, many of them have to do that, they are called teacher work days and are also included in your contract.

The teachers in this area are contracted for something like 190 days, even though the students only come 180. The 10 extra are teacher work days and include those days you go in decorate your classroom.

When I worked we were union and so it was clearly spelled out, but here in NC there are no unions. It stinks. I am not a strong union supporter, but I see what you get when you don't have one.

I'm not a teacher, but I am a public sector union employee. So, in some ways, I have a great deal of sympathy for teacher (especially when it comes to dealing with public opinion about salaries/benefits/etc.). In other ways, I'm not as sympathetic. Most state employees where I live aren't salaried. Sure, it looks like we are, but we are actually paid on an hourly basis when our pay is calculated and our leave time is charged. Our contract specifies exactly what our duties are, how long we may work, when overtime kicks in, exactly when we must take our paid and unpaid breaks... everything is spelled out in contract. For our protection and management's.

A lot of the teacher complaints I have seen are about doing work that is not covered under the contract. Did you volunteer to come in early to advise that student club? Are you required to go in a week early in August to decorate? If I stay late to work on a case because I feel like I 'should', I'm not going to get paid for it unless I received pre-authorization for the overtime. In fact, I could be disciplined for working outside my hours. Because even if it helps my client, it hurts my union brothers and sisters by skewing the data of what can be accomplished in the time we are paid for. If you want to be paid for all the work you do, first you'll have to stop voluntarily doing unpaid work.

We work to contract every day. Because if we work more hours than what our contract specifies, we are working for free. And decreasing our own worth in the eyes of our employer... "why pay them more or hire more people if they'll do it for free?"

 

[PsychoCelloChica]

Actually, even though I was salaried, my check did show an hourly wage.

As for teachers coming in a week early, yeah, many of them have to do that, they are called teacher work days and are also included in your contract.

The teachers in this area are contracted for something like 190 days, even though the students only come 180. The 10 extra are teacher work days and include those days you go in decorate your classroom.

When I worked we were union and so it was clearly spelled out, but here in NC there are no unions. It stinks. I am not a strong union supporter, but I see what you get when you don't have one.

Many locations have laws that require paychecks to show an hourly rate, even for salaried employees. What I was speaking of was more along the lines of how people talk about "teacher salaries" or "government employee salaries" vs. in reality being 'hourly employees' with an expected income (contingent upon being in paid status for every work day). I'm scheduled for a 37.5 hour work week. If I work 38 hours, I get paid an extra $12.50. If I work 37, I get paid $12.50 less (and get written up because I took time off without having enough leave time to cover it. We don't get unpaid leave time except for FMLA approved leave). I'm not salaried even though the public and media think I am. Versus teachers in my area who ARE salaried.... if they work 40 hours, they get paid $2000. If they work 60 hours (with hours before and after school hours, grading at home, etc...). They are still paid $2000.

Your example of teacher work days aren't what I'm talking about either. I'm talking about people who go in weeks early to start prepping their classrooms and lesson plans when they clearly know they are not going to be paid for that time and are not required to be there. You can say it's about being a good teacher and helping the kids all you want. But in reality, it's helping the kids at the expense of yourself.

In my opinion, it all boils down to this: If you want to be paid for those hours, you have to stop working them for free first. There is no leverage in negotiating if you just keep doing the same old thing and hoping they'll see it your way if you ask nicely.

I'm also hugely in favor of equalizing teacher salaries... the school district I grew up in is terrible, and teacher salaries start at $28k and max out at about $65k. I now live near one of the best in my state. Teachers there start at $48k and max out at over $110k. Of COURSE the best teachers want to work there, not my district. There's no incentive for them to go to low performing districts, but that doesn't help the kids in my hometown, and it doesn't help solve the inequality problem.

I don't buy the full union party-line... there are things I dislike about it. But I know that my job would be terrible (and a not worth doing) if it didn't have the protections that our unions afford. I knowingly and willingly take a lower pay rate than I'd get in the private sector for those protections and benefits, and I don't complain too much about it. But it also doesn't mean I won't lobby to get back the COLA raises and 2 sick days we gave up at our last contract negotiation during the recession so we didn't have to have lay-offs.

 

[Elodia]

I teach, so I have many friends who are teachers. Many of them are FB friends as well.

I am getting so tired of the "Every school in America has teachers working for free every day" type of posts. It always goes on to talk about how we come in early, stay late, and do work at home grading or responding to e-mails or whatever, and then always mentions how we don't get overtime.

Well, guess what? We're salaried. We're not hourly employees. That means we don't get overtime. We all entered this profession knowing this. We entered it knowing, too, that we don't get bonuses, but we also know that we don't have to report to our workplace during winter break, spring break, and for just over 2 months every summer.

I hear teachers complain that they feel like "the public" doesn't treat them as professionals, and yet they turn right around and complain about doing work outside of normal work hours. Most professionals I know do this!

/Rant over, flame suit on.

Completely agree op. Thanks for posting!

 

[thornton0511]

My husband is in IT for a very large corporation that has been offshoring much of their workforce for years. His team now numbers less than you can count on one hand because they need a few bodies stateside for specific tasks. It is expected to put in extra hours daily, as well as being available by phone or email 24/7, including vacations. It's hard enough to find the time to take your actual vacation time, let alone attempt to utilize unofficial comp time. Does he occasionally scoot out 20 min early to pick up a car from being serviced or take off an hour and a half for a dentist appt? Yes. In truth he simply winds up logging back in once he gets home to deal with an emergency or answer some questions on a project. His friends in the same field working elsewhere find it very much the same. Is he better compensated than a teacher? Yes. However he also undertakes much more ongoing education than a teacher does as well to keep abreast of technology. He easily averages 60 hour work weeks year round.

Financial services is another sector notorious for demanding grueling hours.[/QUOTTe

My husband is in IT for a very large corporation that has been offshoring much of their workforce for years. His team now numbers less than you can count on one hand because they need a few bodies stateside for specific tasks. It is expected to put in extra hours daily, as well as being available by phone or email 24/7, including vacations. It's hard enough to find the time to take your actual vacation time, let alone attempt to utilize unofficial comp time. Does he occasionally scoot out 20 min early to pick up a car from being serviced or take off an hour and a half for a dentist appt? Yes. In truth he simply winds up logging back in once he gets home to deal with an emergency or answer some questions on a project. His friends in the same field working elsewhere find it very much the same. Is he better compensated than a teacher? Yes. However he also undertakes much more ongoing education than a teacher does as well to keep abreast of technology. He easily averages 60 hour work weeks year round.

Financial services is another sector notorious for demanding grueling hours.

I found your post interesting because my husband works in this type of field as well and is also the manager of his dept. His company depends solely on him for a lot which means he is basically on call all the time and if something goes down with one of their clients he has to drop everything and figure out the issue. He is salary as well. You also mentioned people who work in financial positions and I am a salaried billing office manager for a pair of skilled nursing facilities so yeah I get it. It's tough for sure!

 

[mefordis]

I really wish we would pay teachers higher salaries. How do we expect to attract talent with 30k starting salaries and small raises? I'd vote to have more tax dollars go to our educators over many other things.

 

[DawnM]

I see.

I guess overall my experience was different.

If I worked extra when THEY asked or when it was offered for additional pay and I agreed, I DID get paid, and paid overtime. There were times as a school counselor I gave Saturday seminars or worked in the after school tutoring program and I did indeed log those hours and get paid for them. I got 1.3 times my hours wage to do those extra jobs.

However, I worked in a year round school and I could NOT go in weeks early as someone else was using my office and I had nowhere to go!

I also sometimes "volunteered" during my break to help with curriculum and/or working on extra things the school needed. I got 1.3 times my hourly rate for that as well.

Those opportunities are not everywhere, they aren't here in NC for example.

And I definitely agree that teacher salaries need to be greatly increased in most areas of the country.

Many locations have laws that require paychecks to show an hourly rate, even for salaried employees. What I was speaking of was more along the lines of how people talk about "teacher salaries" or "government employee salaries" vs. in reality being 'hourly employees' with an expected income (contingent upon being in paid status for every work day). I'm scheduled for a 37.5 hour work week. If I work 38 hours, I get paid an extra $12.50. If I work 37, I get paid $12.50 less (and get written up because I took time off without having enough leave time to cover it. We don't get unpaid leave time except for FMLA approved leave). I'm not salaried even though the public and media think I am. Versus teachers in my area who ARE salaried.... if they work 40 hours, they get paid $2000. If they work 60 hours (with hours before and after school hours, grading at home, etc...). They are still paid $2000.

Your example of teacher work days aren't what I'm talking about either. I'm talking about people who go in weeks early to start prepping their classrooms and lesson plans when they clearly know they are not going to be paid for that time and are not required to be there. You can say it's about being a good teacher and helping the kids all you want. But in reality, it's helping the kids at the expense of yourself.

In my opinion, it all boils down to this: If you want to be paid for those hours, you have to stop working them for free first. There is no leverage in negotiating if you just keep doing the same old thing and hoping they'll see it your way if you ask nicely.

I'm also hugely in favor of equalizing teacher salaries... the school district I grew up in is terrible, and teacher salaries start at $28k and max out at about $65k. I now live near one of the best in my state. Teachers there start at $48k and max out at over $110k. Of COURSE the best teachers want to work there, not my district. There's no incentive for them to go to low performing districts, but that doesn't help the kids in my hometown, and it doesn't help solve the inequality problem.

I don't buy the full union party-line... there are things I dislike about it. But I know that my job would be terrible (and a not worth doing) if it didn't have the protections that our unions afford. I knowingly and willingly take a lower pay rate than I'd get in the private sector for those protections and benefits, and I don't complain too much about it. But it also doesn't mean I won't lobby to get back the COLA raises and 2 sick days we gave up at our last contract negotiation during the recession so we didn't have to have lay-offs.

 

[Sgt Mickey]

I get frustrated with the I don't want to go back to school it's the worse thing in the world people (not to be confused with not want to go back just because I am enjoying time off people because I agree there ) but the ones who act like they hate it. WHY would I want you as my child's teacher.

 

[Plaid Princess]

Well, guess what? We're salaried. We're not hourly employees. That means we don't get overtime. We all entered this profession knowing this. We entered it knowing, too, that we don't get bonuses, but we also know that we don't have to report to our workplace during winter break, spring break, and for just over 2 months every summer.

I hear teachers complain that they feel like "the public" doesn't treat them as professionals, and yet they turn right around and complain about doing work outside of normal work hours. Most professionals I know do this!

/Rant over, flame suit on.

No flame necessary, you are absolutely right. I'm not a teacher, but my mom is, so I grew up with those complaints all around me (not from my mom, but her friends and colleagues). I work in the aviation industry. I make no money, and I work EVERY holiday. I knew when I took my current job what my pay would be. I knew that I wouldn't get much choice in my vacation days. I wanted the job. I don't regret it. I also don't expect others to treat me like a martyr because I have to work on Christmas. It was my choice.

That said, there is a tendency to become very shortsighted among teachers and become completely unaware that most working professionals work many, many unpaid hours -- quite often many more unpaid hours than teachers do quite frankly. Not to mention that many of those professions come with the expectation that those hours will be worked without question and continued employment depends on it. In my experience teachers don't find those demands placed upon them in quite the same way at all.

Not to mention the fact that most working professionals don't get every public holiday off, plus 2 weeks at Christmas, a week in the spring, and a few months off in the summer.

I think most people are trying to stand up for teachers not insult them.

I find it interesting that teachers seem to be the only profession who people feel the need to "stand up for". I don't feel like anyone should get an award for doing the job they're paid to do (with the exception being those who put their own life on the line for others).

I know what you mean. To be fair I think all of us get a little guilty of that at times, whether we're nurses, lawyers, IT support, doctors, whatever. Teachers just have slightly shorter work hours than most to begin with, so it grates a bit more I guess.

Agreed.