so did disney shoot itself in the foot?

[disneyholic family]

as i've posted many times this year, we were hoping for a 21 day ticket, the ticket we'd bought for several years prior to the pandemic.

But this year, disney didn't sell them so we had to settle for the 14 day ticket.

But we still were going to Orlando for 27 days (followed by a 4 day Disney Wish cruise).

So if we were there for 27 days, but only had a 14 day ticket, what did we do?

we did various things, including a 2 night 4 day visit to universal.

And what happened? We loved it so much, we're planning on spending an entire week at universal on our next visit to orlando.

Yes, even my universal hating daughter, who had for years refused to go back and try it again fell in love with it and is the biggest campaigner for the minimum one full week visit to universal next time.

Had disney let us have the 21 day ticket, we would never have tried universal.

perhaps disney made a bit of a booboo? And probably not just with us.

 

[Plague]

From what I've seen elsewhere Disney are happy with the amount of money they are getting from visitors, so if they are 'losing' some to Universal they aren't bothered.

Things are still in a not-quite-post-COVID state at present with a lot of pent-up demand, so I think it will be another year or two before things settle. At that point Disney might be feeling the competition and bring back 21 day tickets, though I wouldn't bet on it. Things have changed significantly and I think it's too early to call booboo on it.

 

[Plague]

including a 2 night 4 day visit to universal.

So how did that work?

 

[Monykalyn]

From what I've seen elsewhere Disney are happy with the amount of money they are getting from visitors, so if they are 'losing' some to Universal they aren't bothered.

Things are still in a not-quite-post-COVID state at present with a lot of pent-up demand, so I think it will be another year or two before things settle. At that point Disney might be feeling the competition and bring back 21 day tickets, though I wouldn't bet on it. Things have changed significantly and I think it's too early to call booboo on it.

Yeah except in 2025 universal will have an entire new theme park for those who found Universal this year & will very likely be taking a lot more days/$ to Universal. But hey maybe Tron will be open and Disney will have announced a new IP based ride (that will take 5 years to actually build)!

 

[marcais]

The visit I'm on now will be my last to Disney.

Disney won't mind losing curmudgeons like me who complain about having to pay for things that used to be free (or included in the cost, if you prefer), or who can directly compare G+ with the Fast Pass system that didn't require me to get up at 7am on any day we're going to a park and didn't require me to pay even more on top of that for the top tier rides, or who who can remember when the dining plan and 60-day FP selections made staying on-site an option worth considering.

Because I'll be replaced by a new customer who doesn't have that frame of reference, and so won't be pining for the olden days when it was better. That person won't mind paying to park at the resort hotels, because they never knew any different. They won't mind forking out an extra $130 a day for Individual Lightning Lanes and Genie+ for a family of 4, because as far as they're concerned, that's just another cost of going to DW.

Sure, they might complain when the Memory Maker gets removed as an included option on their package, or when the $200/$100/$50 gift card they got on their last trip isn't offered anymore. But then they'll be replaced by the next generation that never knew those things, and so the circle of gouging will continue until DIsney find the point where the pips squeak and then maybe, just maybe, they'll roll it back a bit. But I wouldn't count on that being anytime soon.

 

[gmi3804]

The visit I'm on now will be my last to Disney.

Disney won't mind losing curmudgeons like me who complain about having to pay for things that used to be free (or included in the cost, if you prefer), or who can directly compare G+ with the Fast Pass system that didn't require me to get up at 7am on any day we're going to a park and didn't require me to pay even more on top of that for the top tier rides, or who who can remember when the dining plan and 60-day FP selections made staying on-site an option worth considering.

Because I'll be replaced by a new customer who doesn't have that frame of reference, and so won't be pining for the olden days when it was better. That person won't mind paying to park at the resort hotels, because they never knew any different. They won't mind forking out an extra $130 a day for Individual Lightning Lanes and Genie+ for a family of 4, because as far as they're concerned, that's just another cost of going to DW.

Sure, they might complain when the Memory Maker gets removed as an included option on their package, or when the $200/$100/$50 gift card they got on their last trip isn't offered anymore. But then they'll be replaced by the next generation that never knew those things, and so the circle of gouging will continue until DIsney find the point where the pips squeak and then maybe, just maybe, they'll roll it back a bit. But I wouldn't count on that being anytime soon.

 

[gismo1554]

I agree with other poster, unfortunately we who are effected by these changes and complain/walk are replaced by others who know no difference and pay it. Park attendance is still high so people are still going even with this change. If anything the fact people are still purchasing 14 days prob means they wont see the need for a 21 day ticket option anyway even if they do ever review the decision (which I doubt they will). 14 days over an 18 day period is about right for more people travelling for 21 days anyway. People doing more than 21 days like yourself is still quite rare.

 

[Plague]

But hey maybe Tron will be open

I'm actually not bothered much about Tron. I was never into the films and I don't really like motorbike coasters, so it would quite likely be a one-and-done for me.

But the loss of the railroad is sad. It's iconic and it looks like it probably still won't be open by the time I go in October, which like @marcais may well be my last visit (though there are extra reasons from cost for me).

 

[disneyholic family]

From what I've seen elsewhere Disney are happy with the amount of money they are getting from visitors, so if they are 'losing' some to Universal they aren't bothered.

Things are still in a not-quite-post-COVID state at present with a lot of pent-up demand, so I think it will be another year or two before things settle. At that point Disney might be feeling the competition and bring back 21 day tickets, though I wouldn't bet on it. Things have changed significantly and I think it's too early to call booboo on it.

i'm not talking about the short term. I'm talking a few years from now when the pent up demand from covid has been burned through.

Yeah except in 2025 universal will have an entire new theme park for those who found Universal this year & will very likely be taking a lot more days/$ to Universal. But hey maybe Tron will be open and Disney will have announced a new IP based ride (that will take 5 years to actually build)!

it will be interesting to see what epic universe does.
Our next full family trip will be in 2026, specifically to make sure epic universe is open.
we figure we need 2 days for each park, plus a day for volcano bay.
so one full week.

The visit I'm on now will be my last to Disney.

Disney won't mind losing curmudgeons like me who complain about having to pay for things that used to be free (or included in the cost, if you prefer), or who can directly compare G+ with the Fast Pass system that didn't require me to get up at 7am on any day we're going to a park and didn't require me to pay even more on top of that for the top tier rides, or who who can remember when the dining plan and 60-day FP selections made staying on-site an option worth considering.

Because I'll be replaced by a new customer who doesn't have that frame of reference, and so won't be pining for the olden days when it was better. That person won't mind paying to park at the resort hotels, because they never knew any different. They won't mind forking out an extra $130 a day for Individual Lightning Lanes and Genie+ for a family of 4, because as far as they're concerned, that's just another cost of going to DW.

Sure, they might complain when the Memory Maker gets removed as an included option on their package, or when the $200/$100/$50 gift card they got on their last trip isn't offered anymore. But then they'll be replaced by the next generation that never knew those things, and so the circle of gouging will continue until DIsney find the point where the pips squeak and then maybe, just maybe, they'll roll it back a bit. But I wouldn't count on that being anytime soon.

i heard lots of grumbling when i was there and also after when i was on the disney wish, people who'd been at the parks before the cruise.

sure there are newbies who will replace them, but at some point it may catch up..

 

[RoseGold]

I have an AP and visited five times in a year, and I still can't imagine a 21 day ticket. I can't see those being big sellers...

 

[disneyholic family]

I have an AP and visited five times in a year, and I still can't imagine a 21 day ticket. I can't see those being big sellers...

where do you live?
the 14 and 21 day tickets are aimed at guests traveling to disney world from overseas who often visit for extended periods.

and by the way, APs aren't available either (just for those renewing)

 

[Uncle Coaster]

sure there are newbies who will replace them, but at some point it may catch up..

I predict that the day comes that pent up demand subsides or an economic downturn occurs or any other issue arises that requires it, Disney will make the necessary adjustments to attract the appropriate amount of visitors. Disney has always been able to put out deals or add perks to attract crowds.

The biggest difference now is that they have their highest prices ever and less perks than they’ve had in a long time so that they have even more tools to attract those crowds if and when the time comes.

I don’t think Disney has shot themselves in the foot or has much to worry about from an attendance standpoint when it comes to the parks division.

 

[Plague]

i'm not talking about the short term. I'm talking a few years from now when the pent up demand from covid has been burned through.

But as we've seen over the years Disney's goalposts are on multi-axis wheels. Currently they are milking everything, streaming services too, but in a few years it will all be different.

Whether they'll still have their reputation is another matter ... That's something that takes years to build and moments to demolish. As others have said, there is always a new generation coming, and Disney has always been a money machine - but Walt made it nice, and I'm not sure the current incumbents are as good as he was. (eg. Disney was very late to the streaming party.)

 

[Cheburashka]

View attachment 695909

That meme is almost as old as the elderly woman it's making fun of. Lame.

 

[disneyholic family]

So how did that work?

i originally booked us for 2 nights at the royal pacific, figuring we'd go into the parks for 3 days and i'd buy a 3 day ticket, including volcano bay.
as i'm sure you know, if you stay at a universal resort, you get early entry on the day you arrive and the day you check out (so 3 days for 2 nights).
And a deluxe resort gets you unlimited express pass as well.

A few months later, when it looked like we were actually going to be going to the USA this time (and not cancelling yet again because of covid), i started looking at universal tickets (i also bought our 14 day tickets for WDW at the same time).
At that time, universal had a ticket special on offer - buy 3 days get 2 days free (and you could use it over 7 or 8 days, i don't recall).
So that's what i purchased.

We arrived at universal tuesday, July 19.
Our plan was for Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday at universal, returning to WDW thursday night.
I should add that we're DVC, so it's relatively inexpensive for us to stay at WDW. It was just a 'staycation" at that point. Not going into the disney parks since we didn't have tickets (no new APs being sold)

Anyway, getting back to Universal.
We had originally planned on doing volcano bay one of the 3 days (tues, wed, thurs) but since i had that 5 day ticket, we decided we'd do volcano bay on friday, driving back to universal from our WDW resort (Animal Kingdom Kidani Village).

So that's what we did. We drove back to universal on friday to do Volcano Bay, which by the way is FANTASTIC!!!!!
we are super water people.
We love water and water parks.
However, we're not sun-worshippers, meaning we never lie in the sun.
So once we're done with the slides, lazy river and wave pool, we're done with the water park.

When we go to either typhoon lagoon or blizzard beach, we usually leave the park by about noon.
That's the time it takes to get our fill of the slides, wave pool and lazy river.

But Volcano Bay? We were there until 4 PM!!!!!
and we had to drag the kids out of there!!!!!
Volcano Bay puts TL and BB to shame in terms of what's available for young children.
They have a separate area for anyone under a certain height.
The slides there, which are really good slides, are only for kids under that height.
There were lots of teens who wanted to go on them, but the lifeguards were really strict and didn't let them on them, no matter how much they tried to convince them.
I was with our 3 grandkids, ages 8, 6 and 4.
they were in heaven.
And it's not just slides. Water play areas that go on and on, with caves and interactive surprises (controlled by the wristband that each person gets when they come into the park).

We were all shocked at how much we enjoyed the park.
We were a group of 9, grandparents, parents, grandchildren.
All of us enjoyed it and would have stayed longer, but it was Friday and we had to be on our way.
Otherwise, i'm sure we would have stayed until closing.

in any case, that's how we ended up going into the parks for 4 days though we stayed at universal for only 2 nights.

 

[Dreams&wishes]

I have an AP and visited five times in a year, and I still can't imagine a 21 day ticket. I can't see those being big sellers...

We did 21 days and it still wasn't enough!

We did the waterparks , the mini golfs, rode multiple times and have taken time to enjoy our resort etc it was awesome. We too are disappointed that the 21 days tickets it's not available anymore. I feel that our next experience will be much more rushed especially given genie plus and the need to get up at 7 (ridiculous)

 

[Plague]

the need to get up at 7

Strictly speaking you don't have to get up - just wake and punch the phone for a few minutes. Then you can go back to sleep.
But if you have shelled out for G+ you're surely gonna be rope-dropping, or at least fairly early, so you'll likely be getting up at 7 anyway.

Am I wrong?
I'm curious about the differences between theory and reality.
(Like our complaining about having to make Park Passes in advance, when pre-pandemic we made FP bookings months in advance, which effectively meant deciding which parks to go to on each day. And once those were made you really couldn't risk trying to change them, at least for the popular rides.)

 

[disneyholic family]

We did 21 days and it still wasn't enough!

We did the waterparks , the mini golfs, rode multiple times and have taken time to enjoy our resort etc it was awesome. We too are disappointed that the 21 days tickets it's not available anymore. I feel that our next experience will be much more rushed especially given genie plus and the need to get up at 7 (ridiculous)

yes, 21 days isn't enough. Even 28 days wasn't enough the time we stayed that long (we had APs that year).
14 days was indeed difficult.
It made the visit much more stressful than we're used to.
Americans just can't understand it.
When we lived in America, we would visit WDW at least once a year, often twice and for about 10 days at a time.
But now that we have to fly halfway around the world to get there, it's just too expensive to visit every year.
So when we do make it over there, we stay for as long as we can.
Since my husband can work from anywhere as long as he has his phone and computer, we are able to stay as long as we like.
And now that all of our kids are teachers, we still are able to visit for a good chunk of the summer.
When we stayed for 3 weeks, we would buy the 21 day ticket.
When we stayed longer, we bought APs.
But neither of them was available this year.
So though we were in Orlando for 28 days, we only were able to go into the Disney parks 14 of those 28 days.

had we been able to buy APs or 21 day tickets, obviously we would have gone into the parks for many more days.

so getting back to your point about the increased stress, yes.
We were definitely stressed about it.
We did have genie+ since when i bought the 14 day tickets, it was still possible to add on genie+ at the UK discounted price onto the entire ticket.
However, if we had been required to buy it each day? We all said we would have been pretty annoyed about the whole thing.
As it was, i didn't think about the cost, as i'd paid it months earlier.
But if i'd had to pay it for 9 tickets each day? i would definitely have felt it.
And after only being able to use it for 1 good ride a day? i would have been really ticked off.
I'm sure i would have been one of those people in the mile long guest services line asking for a refund.

we did get up early to rope drop and had to remember to do the 7 o'clock genie+ booking.
It was pretty crazy how quickly those times went.
It depends on the park and which ride you're going for, but the times shoot up.
And what's really annoying, you'll see a time, click on it and then the time you get is much later than what it had said

Anyway, suffice to say, there was stress.

But we actively tried to calm ourselves.
We made a point of stopping and just resting at various times.
We would find a shady area or an air conditioned counter service location, get a drink and snack and relax.
and we left the parks every day no later than 3 pm, some days at 1 or 2.
And we didn't go back as a group.
My husband and i would babysit the little kids, and the parents would go back for fireworks or whatever on some of the days.
and on a few of the days, my husband and i went with our daughter or son into the parks to watch the fireworks.
But we never do intensive all day visits. It's too much in that summer heat.

anyway, yes the absence of the 21 day ticket definitely made the trip less enjoyable.

 

[Dreams&wishes]

Strictly speaking you don't have to get up - just wake and punch the phone for a few minutes. Then you can go back to sleep.
But if you have shelled out for G+ you're surely gonna be rope-dropping, or at least fairly early, so you'll likely be getting up at 7 anyway.

Am I wrong?
I'm curious about the differences between theory and reality.
(Like our complaining about having to make Park Passes in advance, when pre-pandemic we made FP bookings months in advance, which effectively meant deciding which parks to go to on each day. And once those were made you really couldn't risk trying to change them, at least for the popular rides.)

I have never done a rope drop, during our holidays we like to sleep in, even if I pay for genie+. I'm also a light sleeper so once I get up for something I can't go back to bed unfortunately.

With the 21 day tickets and the old fast passes, we were able to simply go to the park to ride our three fast passes and then go to the resort to relax, decreasing immensely the time spent in lines.

 

[disneyholic family]

Strictly speaking you don't have to get up - just wake and punch the phone for a few minutes. Then you can go back to sleep.
But if you have shelled out for G+ you're surely gonna be rope-dropping, or at least fairly early, so you'll likely be getting up at 7 anyway.

Am I wrong?
I'm curious about the differences between theory and reality.
(Like our complaining about having to make Park Passes in advance, when pre-pandemic we made FP bookings months in advance, which effectively meant deciding which parks to go to on each day. And once those were made you really couldn't risk trying to change them, at least for the popular rides.)

the park pass makes it much more difficult to change parks than FPs.
in the past, it's true you had FPs and ADRs, making it slightly more difficult to be spontaneous.
But it was still possible to change your plans,
But with the Park Pass it's almost impossible.
At least that was true during the summer.
For example, after our first day at MGM (hollywood studios to most people), we realized we were less than thrilled with the park in its current state.
When we'd made plans, we had booked the most days at MGM, since it had the most things that we'd never seen (galaxy's edge, toy story land, etc)
but our first day there was so unpleasant we immediately rethought our plans and decided we wanted to switch one of the MGM days.
But the parks were completely booked up for several of the days of our visit.
That is, during the first week of July, the second and third weeks of july were already almost completely booked.
We managed to find only 1 day, out of 15 days that MK was available (july 15)
So no, you don't have the same flexibility.
True you can hop, but that's if you go into the parks in the afternoon, when the parks become packed to the rafters.

all of that said, i don't think they're going to ever do away with the park pass system.