Say Goodbye to the Auction Scene in Pirates

[5forMickey]

Alvernon......you are correct our experiences are probably vastly different. I've already mentioned my daughters work, real stories of horrific acts against young women. My dear sister is a domestic abuse victim whose husband is still in prison for the horrible things he did to her, there is real horror in the world and we have experienced more than our share.....the difference between us is I don't look for bad in all things around me because we've also seen a lot of beauty in this life. To always see things so darkly would make my life really miserable. You see this as a ride promoting a rape scene, my mind just isnt that dark, I saw it as a scene on a Disney ride that depicted pirates behavior. We're they selling the women to drunken pirates as wife's, yes, and the very next scene showed the men running from the women, sort of being put in their place for their drunken antics......it was/is silly to me. I guess I just don't look at something like that and have my mind automatically think about sex and/or rape, there is enough REAL crimes to focus on that I don't have the need to turn everything into something bad. Not everything has to be awful.

You can't understand how I can't see what you see and I can't understand why you have to see it that way. As was said above, well just have to agree to disagree. I prefer my kids to see it my way, knowing that not everything in life has to be dark and ugly. Not everything is offensive or leads to evil. I guess I don't have to go searching for a meaning in everything.......its just a ride in a Disney park.

 

[BriannaRuth]

I have decided to start a list of offensive issues at Disneyland Park:


11. Winnie the Pooh
- Support for gluttony and obesity

LOL! But hey, we can't do away with that ... we must be able to ask about rides for "Pooh-sized" riders!

 

[VandVsmama]

Just to make sure that there's no misunderstanding from my previous posts in which I added to the numbered list of offenses...none of that was meant to be taken seriously. I meant it to be taken as a joke.

 

[BriannaRuth]

... and the rope tying them up was the "something borrowed" part of their wedding outfits?

 

[Jedi Mouse]

I look at it like this; these are not real pirates, they are pirate charictures that exist in a fictional PG (or maybe PG13) Disney universe. Rape, sex trafficking and other heinous crimes do not exist in that universe.

If you want to start applying real world ethics to Disney storylines you will quickly find yourself in trouble. Beauty and the Beast, to bring up a recent hit movie, is especially troubling when you try to view it that way. I'm sure you can think of countless others as well.

 

[mummabear]

I look at it like this; these are not real pirates, they are pirate charictures that exist in a fictional PG (or maybe PG13) Disney universe. Rape, sex trafficking and other heinous crimes do not exist in that universe.

If you want to start applying real world ethics to Disney storylines you will quickly find yourself in trouble. Beauty and the Beast, to bring up a recent hit movie, is especially troubling when you try to view it that way. I'm sure you can think of countless others as well.

And I would call that scene PG, no one is actually being raped in it.

 

[Princess Jaz E Jaz]

I think that if a change needs to happen do it. Just pick the right time. They are doing all the construction and they are going to shut down another ride to make a change. I also think they need to look at other places in the park that need attention. When was the last time Tomorrowland go a decent update or had any real change.

 

[SMD]

You can't understand how I can't see what you see and I can't understand why you have to see it that way. As was said above, well just have to agree to disagree. I prefer my kids to see it my way, knowing that not everything in life has to be dark and ugly. Not everything is offensive or leads to evil. I guess I don't have to go searching for a meaning in everything.......its just a ride in a Disney park.

If it's just a Disney theme park ride, then why is it a big deal if Disney wants to make changes to the ride?

I think that if a change needs to happen do it. Just pick the right time. They are doing all the construction and they are going to shut down another ride to make a change. I also think they need to look at other places in the park that need attention. When was the last time Tomorrowland go a decent update or had any real change.

They've said the plan is to make the changes when the ride has it's annual refurb next year.

 

[chickapin parterre]

I'm sad, but I just don't like changes to any classic Disneyland rides... Also, from the little available on it the upcoming scene is super boring looking. Oh look a female pirate with red hair and a gun resting on her hip- they could have at least changed the scene into some memorable moment from the movies.

.....or stop shooting at my boat......I am always thankful that we didn't sink and feeling lucky that I am not the mayor......I have to stop glossing over all the scenes.......what exactly am I looking at????

 

[Mamato4boys]

As a victim of sexual assault, I have never one time thought of that scene as a "rape scene." Pirates are scoundrels up to no good throughout the ride, end of story. Like Jedi Mouse said, in this imaginary universe, that stuff doesn't exist. Disneyland is an escape to fantasy, not encouragement or dismissal of real life evils.

If I were offended by it, I would not continue to ride it, despite it making me uncomfortable.

And if I felt like Walt Disney was the sort of man who wanted to glorify or was amused by rape in any way, I certainly would not be visiting any Disney park.

Lastly, my dad recently had his DNA tested and came back as partially Melanesian (Paupa New Guinea)... I sure hope they don't remove the headhunter. I am looking forward to visiting with my old granddad on our next trip.

 

[chickapin parterre]

Ned is is your Granddad??? Because if you thought it was breaking news about your Dad, wait till you hear what happened to the river that flowed past Paupa New guinea, which if you can find books to read about the culture.....puts pirates to shame....at least that is the vibe I am finding here

 

[Gisele]

It also depends how long you've been going to DLR. The drunk pirate by the barrels that talks about a treasure map used to offer to share his wench with riders looking for a good time because she was more than he could handle. Behind him the other pirates were chasing the women they bought in the take a wench for a bride auction. Disney stopped that audio probably 20 years ago now.

And once again I say get rid of all the pc changes and movie add ins.

 

[fly girl]

I am offended that the pirates drink rum and are encouraging us to drink in their songs.

I am also offended that the pirates use guns and other weapons.

I am also offended that the pirates have cannons on their ships to shoot at other ships and the town.

I am offended that the pirates are burning down buildings with fire.

I am also offended that the pirates are waterboarding the guy in the well.

I am going to write several letters to have them erase all these things that actually happened in those days.

Your post had me thinking. The number 1 thing I'm offended by PoTC?

That I can ride in a boat watching a bunch of pirates drinking rum, and yet I can't get any alcoholic drink after I'm done.

That's not fair! Just sayin'

 

[HydroGuy]

From the DIS Blog

http://www.wdwinfo.com/news-stories...caribbean-in-the-magic-kingdom-and-disneyland

A recent Disney Parks Blog article about changes coming to Pirates of the Caribbean in Disneyland Paris also mentioned changes to Pirates of the Caribbean in the Disneyland Parkand the Magic Kingdom. The artist rendering shows massive changes to the iconic auction scene. Instead of the pirates auctioning off women (i.e. “We wants the redhead!”), it looks like townspeople will be forced to auction off a grandfather clock, a picture frame, and goats, among other things.

This massive change to the auction scene furthers Disney’s choice to make the attraction more “family-friendly.” Past modifications to the attraction include making the women chase the pirates, rather than the “suggestiveness” of the pirates chasing the women. These changes upset some, including Disney Imagineers like Francis Xavier “X” Atencio. In the book, Pirates of the Caribbean: From The Magic Kingdom to the Movies, Atencio said these changes “soften” the attraction, even referring to the changes as making the attraction into the “Boy Scouts of the Caribbean.”

For those who do not recognize the name, I saw X Atencio at the D23 Expo I believe in 2011. Among other things, he wrote the script for the POTC ride, wrote the lyrics for "It's a Pirate's Life for Me", and is the voice of the talking skull at the beginning of the ride. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavier_Atencio

 

[alvernon90]

Honestly, this isn't cool.

It's really no ones place to suggest that someone is oblivious to what violence looks like or must "experience the world in vastly different ways" based off your perceived thoughts/ideas on a ride. Some people have had loved ones who have dealt with violence and assault or have experienced it first hand. What you're saying they should be thinking about is probably one of the last things on their mind on a ride in Disneyland.

I didn't suggest it, the poster I was quoting flat out said it.

What you are saying is something I don't understand. You seem to be saying that I have no right to contract my experience of the world with others who have shared their experiences here, which, whatever. You also seem to be saying that someone who has experience with violence would somehow blank out while riding PoTC or at least their minds would refuse to let them understand what is really happening in the ride. That may well be true, but that simply demonstrates the truth of my own point, which is that I perceive the world in a vastly different way than that person does.

Whatever the reason someone may not realize what is happening in that scene, it does not change objective fact: women are tied up and crying because they are being sold as slaves to men who intend to force themselves sexually on the women. That's a simple fact.

 

[alvernon90]

the difference between us is I don't look for bad in all things around me because we've also seen a lot of beauty in this life. To always see things so darkly would make my life really miserable. You see this as a ride promoting a rape scene, my mind just isnt that dark, I saw it as a scene on a Disney ride that depicted pirates behavior. We're they selling the women to drunken pirates as wife's, yes, and the very next scene showed the men running from the women, sort of being put in their place for their drunken antics......it was/is silly to me. I guess I just don't look at something like that and have my mind automatically think about sex and/or rape, there is enough REAL crimes to focus on that I don't have the need to turn everything into something bad.

Wow, I certainly wish I was more like you and had the ability to see the pending enslavement and rape of women as "silly." Perhaps it is my own curse to see objective reality and recognize it for what it is. But I can only say two things in response:

1. The fact that you are able to view the scene as "silly" due to the men running from the women is (as pointed out repeatedly in this thread) the result of a previous change to the ride. That change, at the time, was widely derided by the online fan community for being PC, just as this proposed change is. The previous change worked, at least on you, and this change will work also.

2. I'm not sure I have given you enough information for you to jump to the conclusions that I have no experience with violence myself, or that I "look for bad in all things around me." However, because this is a lively debate thread I am not offended. I'll just say you are wrong on both counts and leave it at that.

 

[lcp9]

I'm curious if people offended by this also deem inappropriate fiction that involves sex trafficking, or movies, or whatever. Is it not all entertainment? As long as it's not money in support of it...it seems to me that it's all the same and to castigate Disneyland but not a book/series like "handmaid's tale" seems to be picking and choosing. It does not seem here that the major argument is "think of the children", but more that we should not be entertained by something like sex trafficking (which some argue may be implied, but is not actually shown and wouldn't cross the mind of my children.)

FTR I have kids 6, 3, and 1 - I would have no problem explaining that scene to them, as I do anything else in society that I deem inappropriate or morally wrong. That's part of being a parent, and not the hardest part I might add.

 

[alvernon90]

I'm curious if people offended by this also deem inappropriate fiction that involves sex trafficking, or movies, or whatever. Is it not all entertainment? As long as it's not money in support of it...it seems to me that it's all the same and to castigate Disneyland but not a book/series like "handmaid's tale" seems to be picking and choosing.

Speaking only for myself, the issue is not so much a depiction of sex slavery, or the fact that it is on a ride for entertainment. (In fact, there are barely any rides at DLR that do not involve violence and/or mortal danger.) To me, there are two factors. One is that the scene is played for laughs. The other is that minimizing the seriousness of rape is an ongoing problem in society. Nobody really thinks murder or torture is funny, but the rape scene gets plenty of laughs.

 

[alvernon90]

From the DIS Blog

http://www.wdwinfo.com/news-stories...caribbean-in-the-magic-kingdom-and-disneyland



For those who do not recognize the name, I saw X Atencio at the D23 Expo I believe in 2011. Among other things, he wrote the script for the POTC ride, wrote the lyrics for "It's a Pirate's Life for Me", and is the voice of the talking skull at the beginning of the ride. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavier_Atencio

So does that mean he's the person who drafted the original version of the ride, where a woman was hiding in the barrel and the pirate was saying he intends to rape her (hoist his colors) and he will share her with anyone who helps find her? That part seems like it would have been harsh even all those decades ago when the ride was created, but it certainly is not in keeping with how people are today. So I'm not sure his views should mean all that much today.

But there is no doubt that the movie franchise made the pirates into the good guys, so the "Boy Scouts" criticism probably should be placed there. The ride is merely following suit.

 

[HydroGuy]

So does that mean he's the person who drafted the original version of the ride, where a woman was hiding in the barrel and the pirate was saying he intends to rape her (hoist his colors) and he will share her with anyone who helps find her? That part seems like it would have been harsh even all those decades ago when the ride was created, but it certainly is not in keeping with how people are today. So I'm not sure his views should mean all that much today.

I do not know. Maybe you should ask him.

You obviously are taking a very literal and serious view of this whole issue. So I am not sure his answer would matter.

To me, that he was central in creating the ride counts for something affirmative. But then he also helped create Haunted Mansion which encourages wives to kill their husbands and for people to consider suicide to solve their problems.