Say Good Bye to Maelstrom....A 'Frozen' Ride is Definite

[Planogirl]

I don't understand why people are so upset about the ride becoming Frozen Themed. It is a ride in Norway so why not tie in to a hugely popular film. If it didn't have a ride and changing the whole country to be Frozen, would be a reason to complain but come on people it is an outdated ride. Families will love a new experience and still enjoy the world showcase without thinking it has been tainted! The characters related to the other countries do meet and greet so should we stop that as well, I think it is silly to be so worried about an attraction! I will enjoy what ever is there.

I can only speak for me but I'm upset because I don't know how far they will go plus I feel like they've changed enough. Akershus became princess themed and so did the stavekerk and now Maelstrom? Plus they even took away the Norwegian beer to replace it with some Danish muck. Since Frozen is based on a story by a Danish writer maybe the pavilion should be changed to Denmark.

When is enough enough? It's really not the individual changes but the constant chipping away at what Norway used to be. Plus some say that it's possible that the whole pavilion will be turned into Arendelle. I would so miss Kringla is that is true...

I know that some are unhappy because the theming of World Showcase overall is gradually becoming more about fantasy and not as much about culture. I don't like that either but it doesn't bother me quite as much.

 

[jamarmiller]

I think using Fantasy can help inspire people to learn a lot about other cultures from time to time. Its not always a bad way to introduce a country to people.


I know 6 pretty big FANTASY movies that did wonders for tourism / inspiring people to go to New Zealand despite the story not happening there or being written by a new Zealander.

I know I never considered going before those Fantasy movies, now its been considered once or twice and has had me looking at New Zealand and its culture to see what other things it can offer.

 

[gjroe78]

I personally am quite disappointed that The Maelstrom will be closing as its always been one of my favorite rides at Epcot.
And am quite annoyed that Frozen seems to be taking over at WDW as im not really a fan.
I can see the appeal its just not for me

 

[wallrock]

I think using Fantasy can help inspire people to learn a lot about other cultures from time to time. Its not always a bad way to introduce a country to people.


I know 6 pretty big FANTASY movies that did wonders for tourism / inspiring people to go to New Zealand despite the story not happening there or being written by a new Zealander.

I know I never considered going before those Fantasy movies, now its been considered once or twice and has had me looking at New Zealand and its culture to see what other things it can offer.

Did those movies really inspire people to visit New Zealand out of a desire to experience its culture, or did they just put down visually what countless nerds and geeks have read and dreamed about for decades? As you say it inspired you, but I'd wager that the majority that went were on more of a Middle Earth Mecca trek than anything.


The point I suppose I'm making is that it shouldn't always be flights of fantasy that inspire people to visit a foreign country, because what you witnessed was just that - a fantasy, and not what that culture really represents. Granted World Showcase never 100% represented those nations, but the key was they were rooted in fact (and in some cases like Norway some mysticism, but real culture nonetheless) and around real people from those places. Not a cartoon with a talking snowman made in the good 'ole USA.

Put those flights into Fantasyland where they belong (and yes, Finding Nemo and the Three Caballeros need to be extracted as well) and leave World Showcase for the camp that desire a more 'down to earth' experience.

 

[Suger Mag]

Put those flights into Fantasyland where they belong (and yes, Finding Nemo and the Three Caballeros need to be extracted as well) and leave World Showcase for the camp that desire a more 'down to earth' experience.

Wow, you want to remove things I like to do when I go to Epcot ... I don't think I would like to visit your vision of a World Showcase. 'Down to earth' is not why I go to WDW.

 

[wallrock]

Wow, you want to remove things I like to do when I go to Epcot ... I don't think I would like to visit your vision of a World Showcase. 'Down to earth' is not why I go to WDW.

Well, my 'version' was what was originally constructed. Does that mean the original World Showcase and Future World held no interest for you?

 

[Suger Mag]

Well, my 'version' was what was originally constructed. Does that mean the original World Showcase and Future World held no interest for you?

I first visited the Magic Kingdom when Epcot did not exist as a 12 year old. I did not go back again to WDW until 2008 and since then have visited maybe about 5 or 6 times... so the missing the original' is moot because to me what is there now is the original. I am also not jaded like many in the R/N section of the DIS, because we still have not seen and done everything and still find new things to see when we go. SOoooo.... nope, it does not interest me in the slightest.

 

[Yellowstonetim]

Did those movies really inspire people to visit New Zealand out of a desire to experience its culture, or did they just put down visually what countless nerds and geeks have read and dreamed about for decades? As you say it inspired you, but I'd wager that the majority that went were on more of a Middle Earth Mecca trek than anything.


The point I suppose I'm making is that it shouldn't always be flights of fantasy that inspire people to visit a foreign country, because what you witnessed was just that - a fantasy, and not what that culture really represents. Granted World Showcase never 100% represented those nations, but the key was they were rooted in fact (and in some cases like Norway some mysticism, but real culture nonetheless) and around real people from those places. Not a cartoon with a talking snowman made in the good 'ole USA.

Put those flights into Fantasyland where they belong (and yes, Finding Nemo and the Three Caballeros need to be extracted as well) and leave World Showcase for the camp that desire a more 'down to earth' experience.

The LOTR movies were fantasy set in a fantasy setting, but for filming, New Zealand was used. It has had an amazing impact on New Zealand tourism!

Frozen is also a fantasy set in a fictional kingdom, but the kingdom is set IN NORWAY. From the very beginning Disney has been very clear that Frozen was set in Norway. And they clearly and directly used a number of elements including costumes based on Norwegian culture.

It has caused a marked increase in interest in Norway and an actual increase in tourism. If I was Norway's head of tourism, I would want a connection with Frozen in Maelstrom. The connection has been nothing but good for Norway and it fits appropriately. Don't overdo it, just some connection. If this is done along with updating the ride, it will be great.

 

[Planogirl]

The LOTR movies were fantasy set in a fantasy setting, but for filming, New Zealand was used. It has had an amazing impact on New Zealand tourism!

Frozen is also a fantasy set in a fictional kingdom, but the kingdom is set IN NORWAY. From the very beginning Disney has been very clear that Frozen was set in Norway. And they clearly and directly used a number of elements including costumes based on Norwegian culture.

It has caused a marked increase in interest in Norway and an actual increase in tourism. If I was Norway's head of tourism, I would want a connection with Frozen in Maelstrom. The connection has been nothing but good for Norway and it fits appropriately. Don't overdo it, just some connection. If this is done along with updating the ride, it will be great.

The cartoon landscape you see in Frozen is not Norway. It's a fictionalized version dreamed up by some imagineers that might have had a bit of influence from the real place. Maybe. However it's not the real beautiful scenery of a real country that was used in the other movies you mention.

I do agree that a small connection is fine but again where does it end? It's sad to me that some people actually have so little interest in real places. (Not you.)

 

[Suger Mag]

The cartoon landscape you see in Frozen is not Norway. It's a fictionalized version dreamed up by some imagineers that might have had a bit of influence from the real place. Maybe. However it's not the real beautiful scenery of a real country that was used in the other movies you mention.

I do agree that a small connection is fine but again where does it end? It's sad to me that some people actually have so little interest in real places. (Not you.)

I love to travel to real places... not a pretend version. I have been to Yugoslavia, Egypt, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, England, France, Spain, Morocco, HUngary, Austria, Germany, Mexico, Canada, Caribbean, Holland, and Belgium. In all honesty putting Frozen in Norway or the 3 Cabarellos in Mexico... Mulan in China or Rattatoille in France etc. does nothing to diminish it in my eyes since the country pavilions already are Disneyfied stereotype of a real place anyways. When I go to WDW I want the fantastic... fantasy and magic in MK... and more magic and fantasy in Epcot is totally fine by me.

 

[Planogirl]

I love to travel to real places... not a pretend version. I have been to Yugoslavia, Egypt, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, England, France, Spain, Morocco, HUngary, Austria, Germany, Mexico, Canada, Caribbean, Holland, and Belgium. In all honesty putting Frozen in Norway or the 3 Cabarellos in Mexico... Mulan in China or Rattatoille in France etc. does nothing to diminish it in my eyes since the country pavilions already are Disneyfied stereotype of a real place anyways. When I go to WDW I want the fantastic... fantasy and magic in MK... and more magic and fantasy in Epcot is totally fine by me.

Point taken and respected. I guess that we can't all be satisfied can we?

I've traveled too. That doesn't diminish my love for other places even in small sanitized Disney versions. Fantasy I can find elsewhere and Frozen virtually everywhere (or at least it feels that way sometimes).

 

[jcnewton]

I love to travel to real places... not a pretend version. I have been to Yugoslavia, Egypt, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, England, France, Spain, Morocco, HUngary, Austria, Germany, Mexico, Canada, Caribbean, Holland, and Belgium. In all honesty putting Frozen in Norway or the 3 Cabarellos in Mexico... Mulan in China or Rattatoille in France etc. does nothing to diminish it in my eyes since the country pavilions already are Disneyfied stereotype of a real place anyways. When I go to WDW I want the fantastic... fantasy and magic in MK... and more magic and fantasy in Epcot is totally fine by me.

I've got no problem with fantasy in Magic Kingdom...where it makes sense. But as far as I know, Epcot was never supposed to be about fantasy and magic. Even if they are watered-down stereotypes of countries, that's sadly as close as most people will ever get to them unless they're fortunate enough to be able to travel. I don't have kids, so I go to Epcot to escape a lot of the fantasy, and enjoy things that are arguably skewed a bit older.

 

[TxRunnerMom]

I agree, I don't like the re-theming to be a Frozen ride. I say this as a huge frozen fan! That's not supposed to be the purpose of the world showcase.

I could understand making a meet-and-greet area for Anna and Elsa in or near the Norway pavillion, as there are other characters currently appearing around the world showcase.

But then, I thought that a lot of the changes in Future World diluted the original concepts of Epcot, so what do I know :/

 

[Globalfootprint]

ARRRGGGHHHH - If this is true- well - I have a number of less than acceptable names and phrases to say!!!! Stupid stupid Frozen!!!!! As I said before, lets just put a Magic carpet ride in Morroco. Turn France into Belle's village? Give China a Mulan make-over with an "escape from the Huns" ride? Does than sound acceptable for a park that .

All this sounds like a great idea.

 

[jamarmiller]

Wow, you want to remove things I like to do when I go to Epcot ... I don't think I would like to visit your vision of a World Showcase. 'Down to earth' is not why I go to WDW.

My family and I's thoughts exactly

Did those movies really inspire people to visit New Zealand out of a desire to experience its culture, or did they just put down visually what countless nerds and geeks have read and dreamed about for decades? As you say it inspired you, but I'd wager that the majority that went were on more of a Middle Earth Mecca trek than anything. ................

Honestly I dont know, but id be willing to take that wager and say it was more non nerds. I am not a tolkein lover, I read one of the books when i was a kid in school and I saw the old animated movie, but just like once. When i saw the movie, I only saw it on Blue ray because I was curious how they turned it into the movie. Then I noticed it was filmed in New Zealand and it got me thinking about the country for travel for the first time, especially after I saw all the wonderful things it offered. Now, I do not know any of any LOTR nerds/super fans / Geeks but I do know some casual fans like me who has said the same thing. I highly doubt more than 50 percent of the people who even went to see the movies were these kinds of geeks. So yeah I doubt its more than 50 percent of the people who travel to New Zealand , who was inspired by the movies. But again I have no real idea or proof to back it up. Just be super surprised if I was wrong.

...................


The point I suppose I'm making is that it shouldn't always be flights of fantasy that inspire people to visit a foreign country, because what you witnessed was just that - a fantasy, and not what that culture really represents. Granted World Showcase never 100% represented those nations, but the key was they were rooted in fact (and in some cases like Norway some mysticism, but real culture nonetheless) and around real people from those places. Not a cartoon with a talking snowman made in the good 'ole USA.
..................

Shouldnt and reality is a big difference. In a perfect world your right, Flights of Fantasy shouldn't be the trigger, but reality is...........it is.

 

[jamarmiller]

Well, my 'version' was what was originally constructed. Does that mean the original World Showcase and Future World held no interest for you?

I love Epcot, its my favorite Disney park in Florida. I am lucky I live half of the year in Japan and Half the year in Florida. Which means I go to Tokyo, California, and Florida parks all the time. I dont go to every park every year, but the one park I DO go to every year is Epcot. I alternate the other parks/resorts but again Epcot is the one I MUST go to every year. Now, with that said. The original Epcot did NOT appeal to me when I was a kid. And quite honestly I think its better to instill that interest in other countries and cultures when we are kids because the greatest impression on our characters are made at that age.

Unfortunately MOST kids are not impressed with really boring stuff , which Epcot seems to be like to many kids at a young age.

Bringing in the Fantasy bridges the gap for the kids. Is it right ? maybe not, but its the ( sad ?) reality of it

THIS IS OF COURSE ALL IMVHO

 

[Suger Mag]

Point taken and respected. I guess that we can't all be satisfied can we?

I've traveled too. That doesn't diminish my love for other places even in small sanitized Disney versions. Fantasy I can find elsewhere and Frozen virtually everywhere (or at least it feels that way sometimes).

I get and respect your point too, and I think making EVERYONE totally happy is usually impossible. I admit I would not want to see only the 'fantasy' in Epcot (totally replace the 'reality'). I love the world showcase countries... walking around them and admiring their design and attention to detail ... having 'regional' snacks... I also love shopping at their gift shops. Sometimes it is a fun reminder of places I was lucky enough to go to in real life, othertimes it is an inspiration to travel more of our beautiful world.

For me adding in a little Frozen or Mulan etc here and there is not too much... I do like seeing how the "real" inspired the "fantasy", but I will confess I would not want to see a complete makeover to the fantastic ... but a little sprinkle here and there is ok by me

 

[Chrisvee]

Love Maelstrom and hope it isn't closing. Add me to the list of folks who want a bit more historical accuracy in Epcot and only light character theming. Let Epcot be a little different from the other parks.

 

[stemikger]

Love Maelstrom and hope it isn't closing. Add me to the list of folks who want a bit more historical accuracy in Epcot and only light character theming. Let Epcot be a little different from the other parks.

I feel the same way. Disney is playing it safe and ensuring the younger generation will be fans for life, but it's also forgetting what EPCOT was meant to be. Put Pixar in the movie studios.

 

[skier_pete]

Point taken and respected. I guess that we can't all be satisfied can we?

I get and respect your point too, and I think making EVERYONE totally happy is usually impossible. I admit I would not want to see only the 'fantasy' in Epcot (totally replace the 'reality').

For me adding in a little Frozen or Mulan etc here and there is not too much...

Nice to see a thread where people are arguing both sides of a point without getting personal! Good job!

I agree with the point about Epcot was never about realism. It's a fantasy version of these countries. BUT, I also think that the countries themselves should try to feel like it could be the real country.

However, in this case we are talking about a RIDE. Is there anyone that thinks Norway is really full of log flumes and trolls? Many may not know this, but early on in Epcot's history, they were planning on building a Mount Fuji roller coaster in Japan. If they announced today that they would be bringing this to Epcot, would you throw up your arms and say "Mount Fuji doesn't have a roller coaster on it in Japan! They should just build a mountain that we can climb!"

From Disney's point of view, for them to change something, I'm sure they've surveyed the heck out of it, and found that overall, people don't think very highly of Maelstrom. In addition, they now have characters that are somwhat related to the area that are IMMENSELY popular. I'd would say the last time Disney had characters this popular (not owned by Marvel) was Captain Jack Sparrow - and we saw what they did with him.

I seriously doubt that they are going to take the ride and just turn it into "The Story of Frozen". They are also not going to tear the ride to the ground, only make some cosmetic changes to bring these characters into the story that's already there. I picture something along the lines of using Anna, Elsa and Olaf to tell the history of Norway.

From Disney's point of view, this would be very hard to resist. This is something that will most definitely sell tickets. In addition, there's a large percentage of parents with little kids that blow off Epcot completely thinking the park is "too adult". Now, these people will be forced to include Epcot in it's plans.

I know this may seem crazy to many of you, but the addition of this ride could well lead to as much as a 5% bump in attendance at Epcot. Now, some of that would be cannibalized from the other parks, but even a 1 or 2 % boost in new park days would be HUGE revenue increase for a simple ride refurb.

I guess what I'm saying, whatever side of the argument you fall on, you better get used to the idea!