NYC Subway Riders Don't Offer Seat To Pregnant Woman

[SirDuff]

Then I am REALLY surprised at the responses -- that people would have a "not my problem" attitude in the face of legislation and signage to the contrary! Wonder if the law is the same in NYC?

Perhaps the issue is that we are talking about different things (based this comment we might be). The legislation is only for the few priority seats (though the TTCs new streetcars and subways have more priority seats). There, yes, I've seen people "compelled" to give up the seat (though generally people are very good about giving up those seats (or not taking them at all)). I (and I think others) are talking about seats in general (not priority seats).

I'm also not sure how much "teeth" the bylaws have. How do they define "disability" and how can they prove someone doesn't have one? I've certainly never seen any law enforcement of it on the TTC (but I've never seen a situation where it was really warranted). I did find that the TTC has a webpage devoted to the issue, which is great.

https://www.ttc.ca/Riding_the_TTC/Frequently_Asked_Questions/Priority_Seating_FAQ1.jsp

 

[Aliceacc]

I have to say, I always thought it was just manners. I've been raised to give up my seat for pregnant women, the elderly and anyone I think might be unsteady on their feet. This includes people with small children. I'm happy to stand usually, and its a small thing which can help improve someone else's day.

That said, publically shaming someone on twitter is more rude in my opinion, than not offering the seat in the first place. Maybe she was just having a rough day, but I don't think it reflects well on her.

Absolutely. (Bold and underlining are mine.)

And for the record: I know it's a national sport to bash New Yorkers.

But, speaking as someone who lives in the NYC suburbs, I think that those of you who have never been here have no idea of the kindness, the generosity and the spirit capable of people who live in NYC. Don't believe everything you see on a sitcom. People are people, and every location has its share of good, bad, polite, impolite, and all the other types of people. The vast majority of us change from one adjective to the next depending on circumstances. It's not a question of where you live, it's mostly a matter of when you happen to come across another person.

 

[DisneyOma]

I'm not sure if I'm reading this wrong...but are you suggesting that courtesy and manners shown by men oppresses women?

What about when women offer their seats up for men, or hold the door open for them...are women then oppressing men

It comes from a deeply imbedded oppressive history. That's why I said most of society is clueless about it - it's been part of our tradition and so no one thinks about the root of it. People of any sex/gender/age helping someone else out isn't the issue. It's the "men holding for women" standard because they are MEN and the other sex is helpless and weak that is a part of the oppression history. It's the "a gentleman holds the door open for a lady" scenario. It should be "a person holds the door for the next person". KWIM?

 

[jevs]

It comes from a deeply imbedded oppressive history. That's why I said most of society is clueless about it - it's been part of our tradition and so no one thinks about the root of it. People of any sex/gender/age helping someone else out isn't the issue. It's the "men holding for women" standard because they are MEN and the other sex is helpless and weak that is a part of the oppression history. It's the "a gentleman holds the door open for a lady" scenario. It should be "a person holds the door for the next person". KWIM?

I know what oppression is. And my take on the posters who said they would offer their seats was that they would offer them to anyone who needed them.

 

[DisneyOma]

I know what oppression is. And my take on the posters who said they would offer their seats was that they would offer them to anyone who needed them.

Most said they would, there were others with the 'gentlemen/ladies' thing going on.

 

[Aliceacc]

It comes from a deeply imbedded oppressive history. That's why I said most of society is clueless about it - it's been part of our tradition and so no one thinks about the root of it. People of any sex/gender/age helping someone else out isn't the issue. It's the "men holding for women" standard because they are MEN and the other sex is helpless and weak that is a part of the oppression history. It's the "a gentleman holds the door open for a lady" scenario. It should be "a person holds the door for the next person". KWIM?

Honestly, saying that "most of society is clueless about it" implies that you think you're the only smart one in the room.

It's entirely possible to have an educated, well thought out opinion that differs from another educated, well thought out opinion. Disagreement isn't synonymous with ignorance.

ETA, sorry I had to run to a chiropractor's appointment.

Historically, men have held doors for women because men had more physical strength than women. So yes, it's a biological fact that my 18 year old, 6'2", 220ish pound son has more physical strength than his 5'2", 120 pound sixteen year old sister or than most other females he's likely to come across on a daily basis. It's not an attempt to oppress her, it's a recognition that each has different strengths and that one of his is physical.

 

[Missy1961]

Absolutely. (Bold and underlining are mine.)

And for the record: I know it's a national sport to bash New Yorkers.

But, speaking as someone who lives in the NYC suburbs, I think that those of you who have never been here have no idea of the kindness, the generosity and the spirit capable of people who live in NYC. Don't believe everything you see on a sitcom. People are people, and every location has its share of good, bad, polite, impolite, and all the other types of people. The vast majority of us change from one adjective to the next depending on circumstances. It's not a question of where you live, it's mostly a matter of when you happen to come across another person.

Thank you. I commuted from the suburbs to NYC for over 30 years. I saw many people - men and women - give their seats to others who needed it more that they did. And I saw rude people too. No city is perfect.

 

[~PixieTink~]

My question is how pregnant was she? Was she in her 1st Trimester and hardly showing or ready to pop the baby out anyday? In the later case I would have given my seat up for her. Only when I see a visibly disabled with a broken foot or something like that or really elderly person who seems to be looking for a seat because some elderly people are fit I will definitely offer up my seat all the time.

 

[Aliceacc]

Thank you. I commuted from the suburbs to NYC for over 30 years. I saw many people - men and women - give their seats to others who needed it more that they did. And I saw rude people too. No city is perfect.

This area was a sight to behold after 9/11, after Sandy, and on so many other occasions. Those who bash us as a hobby would be stunned to see the human kindness that people exhibited, from large public gestures to the smaller, more personal ones.

But of course that would challenge what they "know" about a place they've never experienced from anywhere but a TV or movie screen.

And, no, it doesn't take a crisis to bring out the best in New Yorkers or in any other group of people. Check my posting history. I constantly brag about the teens I teach, and of the remarkable kindnesses they exhibit on a daily basis.

 

[hpsauce]

Perhaps the issue is that we are talking about different things (based this comment we might be). The legislation is only for the few priority seats (though the TTCs new streetcars and subways have more priority seats). There, yes, I've seen people "compelled" to give up the seat (though generally people are very good about giving up those seats (or not taking them at all)). I (and I think others) are talking about seats in general (not priority seats).

I'm also not sure how much "teeth" the bylaws have. How do they define "disability" and how can they prove someone doesn't have one? I've certainly never seen any law enforcement of it on the TTC (but I've never seen a situation where it was really warranted). I did find that the TTC has a webpage devoted to the issue, which is great.

https://www.ttc.ca/Riding_the_TTC/Frequently_Asked_Questions/Priority_Seating_FAQ1.jsp

I'm confused too! You said in relation to the priority seating sign I posted, "same sign here, same sign at WDW", and implied you'd not had the same experience as me on the TTC. I can't remember a time in my experience that there were more elderly, disabled and pregnant people on a train than priority seats to give up (and I travel on four trains daily). But I think the priority seating signage serves as a reminder all to give up any seat if you're able to. Many responses in this thread are (I'm paraphrasing) "I don't care if she's pregnant, I'm not giving up my seat, she should take a cab." I haven't experienced that attitude here.

I agree there are non-visible disabilities but in this thread we are talking about a visibly pregnant woman. But I don't think that enforcement is the issue. In my experience, the attitude here is different than the attitude expressed on this thread. I wonder if there is a different attitude in NYC (and elsewhere) because they don't have a priority seating program to remind people to do the right thing.

 

[SirDuff]

I'm confused too! You said in relation to the priority seating sign I posted, "same sign here, same sign at WDW", and implied you'd not had the same experience as me on the TTC. I can't remember a time in my experience that there were more elderly, disabled and pregnant people on a train than priority seats to give up (and I travel on four trains daily). But I think the priority seating signage serves as a reminder all to give up any seat if you're able to. Many responses in this thread are (I'm paraphrasing) "I don't care if she's pregnant, I'm not giving up my seat, she should take a cab." I haven't experienced that attitude here.

I agree there are non-visible disabilities but in this thread we are talking about a visibly pregnant woman. But I don't think that enforcement is the issue. In my experience, the attitude here is different than the attitude expressed on this thread. I wonder if there is a different attitude in NYC (and elsewhere) because they don't have a priority seating program to remind people to do the right thing.

You put that sign in response to my posting about never having witness people (by look or word) make people give up their seats and that there was a different attitude in Toronto. My comment was that the sign exists elsewhere, so that is not the explanation for the different attitude that you feel exists. Having ridden public transit in various cities, my experience is that the "I don't care if she is pregnant" exists everywhere (sometimes more, sometimes less, but not a huge difference). However, I think that many (including people here) who might think that people shouldn't expect to be given a seat (even if pregnant) would still actually give up their seat if needed.