Must read for parents- What if I am accidentally raising a bully?

[Luv Bunnies]

To me, bullying is when someone goes out of their way to purposely harass or hurt another person, either physically or verbally. Not wanting to be friends with someone is not bullying. Sometimes people just don't connect with others. That doesn't mean they should be impolite or disrespectful to them. If someone says hi, you should smile and say hi back. Ignoring or snubbing someone who is trying to talk to you isn't nice, but I wouldn't call it bullying. If one of my kids told me someone at school was being annoying by trying to talk to them, I would advise them to be polite. Don't ignore the person. Just be nice to them. But I would never force my child into a friendship if they weren't feeling it. They need to develop their own instincts about people. I would not allow them to be unkind, but I also would not push them to be friends with the person.

 

[asta]

Just my opinion but after raising two girls I think the way girls bully is different than how boys bully. Sometimes the psychological damage inflicted by treating someone like they are less worthy is worse than the physical damage from hitting. When my daughters were younger I sadly witnessed several incidents of girls bullying by exclusion. From playground shunning, field trip group shut outs and the all to frequent use of party invitations as a weapon.

From the responses I know that some of you don't see these issues as problems but others are sympathetic to emotional damage these actions can cause. We will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[kimblebee]

I found the article too long and the author/mom a little too look at me I'm awesome, but i agree with the message (though not necessarily the way she went about it). She kinda bullied her daughter into befriending this kid. IMO threatening to not take her to school was over the top. Not everyone is going to be someone you want to he friends with, but it certainly doesn't excuse being unkind.

I totally agree with you. The mom said don't be a bully then bullied her kid to do something.

 

[asta]

I totally agree with you. The mom said don't be a bully then bullied her kid to do something.

Making your child do what you think is the right thing is discipline not bullying.

 

[Hikergirl]

Just my opinion but after raising two girls I think the way girls bully is different than how boys bully. Sometimes the psychological damage inflicted by treating someone like they are less worthy is worse than the physical damage from hitting. When my daughters were younger I sadly witnessed several incidents of girls bullying by exclusion. From playground shunning, field trip group shut outs and the all to frequent use of party invitations as a weapon.

From the responses I know that some of you don't see these issues as problems but others are sympathetic to emotional damage these actions can cause. We will just have to agree to disagree.

I don't deny that these things can cause emotional damage to the kid(s) being excluded. I just don't believe in forcing everyone to get along and forcing inclusion of everyone when it comes to friendships.
My ds is going on an overnight field trip in a month. They had to pick room partners, 4 kids to a room. Well of course there are 5 boys in the group, so someone has to be excluded. My ds and 3 of his friends decided that they would room together because they just didn't get along with the 5th boy as well as they did with eachother so he was left out.
We are too old for birthday parties but when my kids were younger if you wanted to invite through the school you had to invite everyone. Well I cac't fit a class full of kids at my house, and I wasn't going to go broke inviting 25 kids to a party so we had to exclude some. It wasn't done out of malice, its just the reality.

I know there are real mean kids out there, who do exclude, ignore and shun just because they are mean, but sometimes its just because someone being excluded is inevitable.

 

[kimblebee]

Making your child do what you think is the right thing is discipline not bullying.

I think it was the way she did it high..do it or I'm not driving you to school. That's not discipline, that's holding something over her head.

 

[Snap Crackle Pop]

I think it was the way she did it high..do it or I'm not driving you to school. That's not discipline, that's holding something over her head.

Do you hold the same belief when it comes to making kids eat their veggies, and if they don't they can't have any dessert?

 

[kimblebee]

Do you hold the same belief when it comes to making kids eat their veggies, and if they don't they can't have any dessert?

I don't see them as equal arguments. I don't remember if I ever had to use that line on my daughter, it's been a while. I know, though, that I never tried to force my daughter to be friends with someone she just didn't want to be friends with. Be nice to, yes, but not go out of her way to find out nice things about someone. That's too sunshine and rainbows for me. Not everyone is meant to be friends with everyone.

 

[nugov2]

Making your child do what you think is the right thing is discipline not bullying.

Sorry threatening to not take your child to school is not discipline IMO, but different strokes for different folks. I also think this mom harbors some resentment from her own childhood and is projecting it onto her own child.

 

[VandVsmama]

I don't see them as equal arguments. I don't remember if I ever had to use that line on my daughter, it's been a while. I know, though, that I never tried to force my daughter to be friends with someone she just didn't want to be friends with. Be nice to, yes, but not go out of her way to find out nice things about someone. That's too sunshine and rainbows for me. Not everyone is meant to be friends with everyone.

True, but at least the OP's daughter learned through the process of having to find out 3 things about the other girl that sometimes once you get to know somebody a bit, they just might surprise you in a very positive way.

I agree with another poster who said that girl bullying is different than the bullying that boys do to each other. I read the book Queen Bees & Wannabes and what the OP is pretty much straight out of that book in terms of a recommended approach to handling mean girl behavior. Girl bullying is very passive-aggressive, manipulative, back-handed, and psychological in nature. For all of you women out there, how many of you have had a frenemy?

Mean girl kids grow up to be mean girl adults. Think about it...how many of you have run into one of "those women" who talk behind your back but are pleasant to your face? You'd be surprised sometimes at the amount of adult 'mean girl' behavior that goes on amongst sports teams' moms.

Case in point:
A year ago, my kids were on a sports team but different team than they are with now. 1 of the moms, let's call her Jane, was clearly a ring leader. Repeatedly I would see her talk to the rest of us moms about crazy stuff that another mom supposedly did or said to her. Jane would totally talk smack & gossip about this other mom. Yet when the other mom was around, Jane acted like her best friend. I mean, their 2 families even went on a trip together. It was odd.

Then on one particular occasion while the kids were all practicing & us moms were all socializing, Jane announced to everybody, "Ok, Other Mom is going to be here soon, and we're all mad at her, so we are all going to shun her today. Nobody talk to her." That's when I pulled my head out of my rear end and realized that Jane was really not such a nice person. She was a Queen Bee. And ironically, everybody went along with it and they treated Other Mom like chopped liver.

Later on, our family moved to a different team and as it turned out, Other Mom's kids moved to the same team as well. I have since learned that Other Mom is actually a very nice person. She has a very generous spirit. And she also has a special needs child who has a lot of school challenges and that's often hard for her to handle. The way Jane made Other Mom out to be, you'd think that Other Mom was crazy.

*I* participated in this adult 'Mean Girl' bullying by initially going along with Queen Bee Jane. But I stopped when I realized what the truth really was. Since this all happened, I have run into parents from the old team and the moms all ask me about Other Mom, but they ask in a snarky kind of way, if you get my drift. I'm really honest with them and I tell those moms that Other Mom is actually a very nice person once you get to know her...she's as normal as you and I are and you should give her a chance.

 

[ronandannette]

I totally agree with you. The mom said don't be a bully then bullied her kid to do something.

I think it was the way she did it high..do it or I'm not driving you to school. That's not discipline, that's holding something over her head.

No. It's appropriate for a parent to expect a child to comply with their directives (I'd use the word "obedience" but that's probably out of style now). If a child needs either incentives or consequences to ensure that comliance - so be it.

 

[JustCallMeMommy]

I'll admit, I do struggle with how much I should encourage DD to be friends with the "annoying" kids. She seems to be a magnet for the kids who cling, and she really doesn't like that. She values her quiet time and needs a few minutes alone to recharge her batteries sometimes (typical introvert behavior), so, for instance, a child who wants to talk all.the.time and doesn't understand when she needs to sit down and read for a few minutes is a nuisance to her, and she has a very strong "flight" reaction. I have always encouraged her to be friendly, but I have also told her that she doesn't have to be besties with everyone.

I can't help but put myself in the shoes of the other kid though. Middle school, in our case, is a hard age to navigate the social thing.

 

[nugov2]

Do you hold the same belief when it comes to making kids eat their veggies, and if they don't they can't have any dessert?

I don't necessarily think its an apples to apples argument. I want to my children to treat people kindly because they really want to and see the value in being kind and will take it with them as adults
Eat your broccoli or no ice cream doesn't really teach them anything. They may gag it down for the reward but as soon as they are able to pass on broccoli they will. There are some lessons that need to be learned by different methods than force and being kind is one IMO. Clean your room or I won't give you money for the movies is fine, but be nice to susie or you won't go to the park is not an acceptable trade off IMO. I think you are teaching your child to be fake and there is a difference between kindness and fakeness. I know this mom's story has a happy ending, but i think holding things over your kids head to be nice to someone isn't a method that would work the majority of the time.

 

[Mkrop]

I work in the recess yard every single day. I have seen it all. I dont tolerate exclusion out there. It is heartbreaking to see the one being excluded. Even the one who was being a pain in the neck, I advocated for him too when he told me they would not allow him the basketball game. I do talk it out with both sides but I usually tell them to allow so and so to play. I tell them to Be Kind everyday. If things are really going south for the excluded one I try to steer them to another group to play. Since it is a Catholic school, I also get to throw WWJD and be forgiving a lot as well lol

 

[asta]

I work in the recess yard every single day. I have seen it all. I dont tolerate exclusion out there. It is heartbreaking to see the one being excluded. Even the one who was being a pain in the neck, I advocated for him too when he told me they would not allow him the basketball game. I do talk it out with both sides but I usually tell them to allow so and so to play. I tell them to Be Kind everyday. If things are really going south for the excluded one I try to steer them to another group to play. Since it is a Catholic school, I also get to throw WWJD and be forgiving a lot as well lol

Thank you for doing this. I wish that every school had someone with your heart to help when needed.

 

[WIcruizer]

I do think kids should try to include everyone, whenever possible. However, you can't force every kid to be a friend to every other kid. It's just not realistic. No matter what we do as parents or teachers, there will always be that kid who is "different" or excluded for any number of reasons. But that is a moving target as we know. The clique will change every year, heck sometimes every day.

And the kid on the outside looking in is fully aware, by the way. So forcing kids to play with each other, be friends, etc. doesn't really accomplish anything. That outsider knows she doesn't really "belong." So we can call it being rude, bullying, whatever. It can be a cruel world, and impossible to make everyone feel included.

 

[Mkrop]

I do think kids should try to include everyone, whenever possible. However, you can't force every kid to be a friend to every other kid. It's just not realistic. No matter what we do as parents or teachers, there will always be that kid who is "different" or excluded for any number of reasons. But that is a moving target as we know. The clique will change every year, heck sometimes every day.

And the kid on the outside looking in is fully aware, by the way. So forcing kids to play with each other, be friends, etc. doesn't really accomplish anything. That outsider knows she doesn't really "belong." So we can call it being rude, bullying, whatever. It can be a cruel world, and impossible to make everyone feel included.

I will disagree with that statement...given my hands on experience it can make a world of difference for that kid even for that one day. Kids can learn to include and be kind to one another for the 20 minutes they are at lunch recess. They have to learn to work with people they dont like or who are "different" every day. They will have group projects and eventually they will be adults who have to learn to get along with all kinds of people every single day. The recess yard can be a great "training" for this.

You dont need to be best buddies with them but you can let them in on your game of tag or basketball for a time.

 

[Hikergirl]

I will disagree with that statement...given my hands on experience it can make a world of difference for that kid even for that one day. Kids can learn to include and be kind to one another for the 20 minutes they are at lunch recess. They have to learn to work with people they dont like or who are "different" every day. They will have group projects and eventually they will be adults who have to learn to get along with all kinds of people every single day. The recess yard can be a great "training" for this.

You dont need to be best buddies with them but you can let them in on your game of tag or basketball for a time.

I do agree that at school some things can't really be a choice, but as a parent I can make the decision to not force my kids to have to be friends with anyone they don't want to be.

Since you mentioned upthread that you advocated for the pain in the neck kid to be included. When you teach "be kind" and include everyone do you also teach "don't be a pain in the neck" so that others will want to include you?

 

[Wendy31]

I totally agree with you. The mom said don't be a bully then bullied her kid to do something.

I don't think it's being a "bully" as a parent to encourage (& then insist if the encouragement isn't working) his/her child to do the right thing.

Again, I thought the author of the article had a little too much of a "aren't I a great mom?" attitude for me. However, I don't think it's wrong to stop our kids from being the "mean" kids when we see it happening.

My daughter may not end up being "best friends" w/ someone. But there's nothing wrong w/ getting to know someone - which is what the mom did w/ her daughter by asking her to learn 3 things about the girl. I don't want my daughter (or sons) to be the one that purposefully leaves someone out or excludes someone. That's mean.

I don't deny that these things can cause emotional damage to the kid(s) being excluded. I just don't believe in forcing everyone to get along and forcing inclusion of everyone when it comes to friendships.
My ds is going on an overnight field trip in a month. They had to pick room partners, 4 kids to a room. Well of course there are 5 boys in the group, so someone has to be excluded. My ds and 3 of his friends decided that they would room together because they just didn't get along with the 5th boy as well as they did with eachother so he was left out.
We are too old for birthday parties but when my kids were younger if you wanted to invite through the school you had to invite everyone. Well I cac't fit a class full of kids at my house, and I wasn't going to go broke inviting 25 kids to a party so we had to exclude some. It wasn't done out of malice, its just the reality.

I know there are real mean kids out there, who do exclude, ignore and shun just because they are mean, but sometimes its just because someone being excluded is inevitable.

So did the 5th boy end up not going on the trip or did he have to room by himself? Or was the 5th boy in a room w/ other boys - just not part of the "group" that included your son? I understand if the 5th boy were mean or unkind or whatever, but, if he's generally in the group, then, evidently, they're all at least sort of friendly w/ one another. It just seems a bit unkind to me for 4 boys to group up & purposefully just leave the 5th boy alone.

If there were no other boys to room w/ the 5th boy, as a parent or teacher, I would have stepped in & said 2 boys in one room & 3 boys in the other.

And no one says you have to invite everyone to parties, but it's one thing to invite your 5 closest friends & not invite the 10 other girls in the class and another thing to invite 9 girls & just leave one out.

I work in the recess yard every single day. I have seen it all. I dont tolerate exclusion out there. It is heartbreaking to see the one being excluded. Even the one who was being a pain in the neck, I advocated for him too when he told me they would not allow him the basketball game. I do talk it out with both sides but I usually tell them to allow so and so to play. I tell them to Be Kind everyday. If things are really going south for the excluded one I try to steer them to another group to play. Since it is a Catholic school, I also get to throw WWJD and be forgiving a lot as well lol

Thank you!

I've really never understood adults that don't try to encourage kids to include everyone in situations like the playground.

Again, no one is saying you have to invite everyone to everything & be best friends & go everywhere together & text & whatever, but it's unkind to purposefully leave someone out - on the playground, at lunch, etc.

I don't force my kids to be friends w/ someone or be "buddy-buddy" w/ someone they don't like, but I'm not going to let them just ignore or shun someone either.

I was not the kid who was always left out, & I always had friends. And, in looking back, there were times (especially in high school) that I probably took my turn at being a "mean girl". However, on the inside, I was shy & unsure of myself, & I remember how it felt to feel insecure & awkward.

Anyway, as adults, we have all have different personalities, & some people are more sensitive to & tend to notice the "left out" kid more.

 

[Hikergirl]

So did the 5th boy end up not going on the trip or did he have to room by himself? Or was the 5th boy in a room w/ other boys - just not part of the "group" that included your son? I understand if the 5th boy were mean or unkind or whatever, but, if he's generally in the group, then, evidently, they're all at least sort of friendly w/ one another. It just seems a bit unkind to me for 4 boys to group up & purposefully just leave the 5th boy alone.

If there were no other boys to room w/ the 5th boy, as a parent or teacher, I would have stepped in & said 2 boys in one room & 3 boys in the other.

And no one says you have to invite everyone to parties, but it's one thing to invite your 5 closest friends & not invite the 10 other girls in the class and another thing to invite 9 girls & just leave one out.

There are only 4 boys allowed to be in the room so the boy least liked by the group was the boy who was picked to not be in the room. There was no choice but to pick someone to be excluded.

I don't have a problem leaving 1 girl, or boy out if the birthday child and their close friends don't get along. And yes, my child has been excluded from birthday parties when most of his friends have been invited. It happens, and we as parents need to teach our children that they aren't always going to be included. That is just as much an important lesson as raising them not to be bullies.