making decision about 10yo dog and cancer...

bellebud

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Our beautiful, sweet, loving 10yo GSD has a tumor in his anal gland. He had a malignant tumor on his side removed last year, and was ok afterwards and bloodwork was/is ok. No other treatment was required.

Vet says this new cancer is not the same as the tumor we had removed.

Somewhat typical for a 10yo GSD, his back is filled with arthritis, so his legs don't work very well. He has to sit or lay down after standing for a minute or so. He still walks up the stairs (with difficulty), can't really run, limps, but still walks in the yard to go to the bathroom and wants to play, chew a ball, have me throw him the ball (right to him since I don't want him chasing it), barks at squirrels and the air (sigh...). He eats well and everything else is ok. He moves around the house fine, from room to room following me all day. He's my boyfriend ;)

Our regular vet had us bring him to Oradell Animal Hospital (for any NY/NJ dissers), where they specialize in everything. Surgery alone usually provides 6 months to a year of life, adding in chemo maybe another 6 months, radiation maybe another year.

Radiation is out in my mind - too much pain, recovery, he's too old.

At first I was like "definitely surgery". But after dh and I discussing it, we've been saying for the past year or 2 that he probably only has a few years left because of his legs and back. We just put him on Rimadyl the other day, and he has a bit more of a spring in his step and is acting a bit happier. He was in a lot of pain.

I wish we knew how fast this grows. It says on-line it's fast growing and metastasizes (sp?). I don't know how fast is fast, and the vet won't/can't say. The tumor is about the size of a grape. We only know he has it because there was some blood on his hair by his rear, so I took him in. The gland was infected, put him on antibiotics a few weeks ago. At that time, the vet didnt think it was cancer. But the infection has cleared up, and now that she can feel it better she thinks it's cancer. Vet at the speciality hospital says same thing. There are no other symptoms yet.

If he has 6 good months left because of the cancer, and would have only had that anyway because of his legs, we don't want to put him through surgery, recovery and chemo, and he's not enjoying his life anymore.

Does anyone have any experience with this type of canine cancer?
 
I am unable to help with any advice on this type of cancer, but can offer understanding for the place you now find yourself. Four years ago our little shih tzu Rocky was diagnosed with cancer and by the time we found out the vet told us he only had about two weeks left. His symptoms were nothing drastic. Mainly just some slight weight loss but he was 14 so it was expected.

Of course there was nothing to be done but we did not want him to suffer either. I asked the doctor when would we know and he said "You will know"

And he was right.

As crazy as is sounds I could swear that later that week Rocky said "Daddy it's time".

So myself DW and DS took him on his last journey and the vets could not have been more wonderful. We have another shih tzu, Epcot, and he is just as sweet

So know that even though I can't offer advice I can tell by your post you will do what is best for your fur baby. It's SO tough, as all they do is love us. So do the right thing for you baby and know that you did your best to care for him.
 
I would probably take the tumor out and send it to pathology to see for sure if it's cancer. That's the only way you'll know. Then I would take it from there. It's possible it's adding to the pain that your dog is experiencing with laying down and walking. Tumors usually have a lot of blood flow and this can cause inflammation in the area, which causes pain. One of our GSDs had perianal fistulas and that was an interesting summer - probably the same amount of time, or more, than it would take for your dog to recover from anal gland surgery. We had to warm pack his butt three times a day, then I wound up calling a distant vet who was doing research on this type of problem (which often results in death), and we were able to work with my vet to get my dog the medication he was studying, and we actually cured the fistuals. Later, my vet used that medication in his practice for other dogs who had perianal fistulas. So you never know what can happen. As you know, many large dogs get lame in the rear as they get older. Often, glucosamine/chodrointon (?sp) and an NSAID like rimadyl work to increase fluidity, decrease inflammation, and keep them comfortable for a long time. But sometimes, it's a wait and see approach. I think first, you'd need to get through the surgery to remove and biopsy the anal gland, then take it from there on the walking. But that's just me. (I've had six GSDs as you probably know and we've had some crazy health issues.) But if you decided to simply put the dog out of his misery, I don't think anyone will fault you for it. You really have to look into your heart and do what you feel is best. It's never easy, either. Hugs to you. PM me if I can help in any way.
 


So sorry op! Had to make that very difficult decision for my "pup" a year ago.
Broke our hearts .....
But I literally was nose to nose and eyes to eyes till he left the pain and discomfort behind. Love n miss him!!

Whatever you decide to do, it's clearly coming from a place of love.
 
sorry but I dont have much advice to give you but just sending you hugs and will keep you and your puppy in my thoughts and prayers

On monday we just send our beloved kitty Cubbie over the Rainbow bridge he was 18 and very sick--the vet was actually surprised he was still with us she said it was because of all the great care we gave him

but there will be signs its time to let go--the vet told us when she told us he had lukeminia 3 months ago be prepared to let him go--you will know when its time

and she was right as hard of a thought as it is you will know

please take care
 
So sorry about your pup. I have 2 dogs that are 12. It gets tougher every yr on them. No experience with that type of cancer though. Sending you hugs.....
 


Not this type of cancer but our beloved black lab had a tumor. At the time he was about 12 years old. We had the tumor removed but opted out of additional treatment. He was an old man already (deaf, developing cataracts) and we just didn't want to put him through that. He lived for another two years and then as others above have mentioned we just knew one day it was time. Whatever decision you make will be the right one because it will be your heart driving it. I'm sorry though that you have to make it.
 
You dog will let you know. It is a horrible decision to make and as for myself I just never felt right making it but when I looked at it from my dog's perspective, ( I had to put down two), I realized that when they could no longer eat or walk I was doing the right thing. It is a pain that never goes away. The love you have for him never goes away it just changes to loving memories.
 
Here's what I would (and have been in this situation before with a 10 year old dog): Have the anal gland mass removed and sent to pathology. You don't yet know you're dealing with cancer. My dog (who is 16) has been having recurrent anal gland (on one side) issues for about 6 years now. It's not cancer but it sure has that appearance.

If you do find out it's cancer, I would be in the camp of not doing anymore intervention. Let it run its course and you will know when the time comes. My 10 year old dog had bladder cancer and we decided not to do anything as the treatments would not be curative. She went another 6 months and then I decided that the cancer was impacting her quality of life.
 
I was a teenager when it happened, but our Golden Retriever had cancer at the age of 9. We decided to put him down instead of making him suffer.

I'm not a dog person, though we do have one for my kids. If they're 100% sure it's terminal cancer, I'd keep the dog until it's clearly a miserable quality of life and then say goodbye.
 
Our beautiful, sweet, loving 10yo GSD has a tumor in his anal gland. He had a malignant tumor on his side removed last year, and was ok afterwards and bloodwork was/is ok. No other treatment was required.

Vet says this new cancer is not the same as the tumor we had removed.

Somewhat typical for a 10yo GSD, his back is filled with arthritis, so his legs don't work very well. He has to sit or lay down after standing for a minute or so. He still walks up the stairs (with difficulty), can't really run, limps, but still walks in the yard to go to the bathroom and wants to play, chew a ball, have me throw him the ball (right to him since I don't want him chasing it), barks at squirrels and the air (sigh...). He eats well and everything else is ok. He moves around the house fine, from room to room following me all day. He's my boyfriend ;)

Our regular vet had us bring him to Oradell Animal Hospital (for any NY/NJ dissers), where they specialize in everything. Surgery alone usually provides 6 months to a year of life, adding in chemo maybe another 6 months, radiation maybe another year.

Radiation is out in my mind - too much pain, recovery, he's too old.

At first I was like "definitely surgery". But after dh and I discussing it, we've been saying for the past year or 2 that he probably only has a few years left because of his legs and back. We just put him on Rimadyl the other day, and he has a bit more of a spring in his step and is acting a bit happier. He was in a lot of pain.

I wish we knew how fast this grows. It says on-line it's fast growing and metastasizes (sp?). I don't know how fast is fast, and the vet won't/can't say. The tumor is about the size of a grape. We only know he has it because there was some blood on his hair by his rear, so I took him in. The gland was infected, put him on antibiotics a few weeks ago. At that time, the vet didnt think it was cancer. But the infection has cleared up, and now that she can feel it better she thinks it's cancer. Vet at the speciality hospital says same thing. There are no other symptoms yet.

If he has 6 good months left because of the cancer, and would have only had that anyway because of his legs, we don't want to put him through surgery, recovery and chemo, and he's not enjoying his life anymore.

Does anyone have any experience with this type of canine cancer?

Not sure where you are located but many cancer patients have had great success with this vet:

http://holisticpetcarenj.com/
 
OP here. Thank you all so much for your thoughts and hugs.

I would probably take the tumor out and send it to pathology to see for sure if it's cancer. That's the only way you'll know.

The surgery itself seems pretty risky, that's our real dilemma. If they cut a nerve that's "right there", he will not be able to hold his poop anymore; we'd have to put him down if that happened (imagine if that happens and it wasn't cancer).

Also, he gets a urine problem every couple/few months where he can't pee. It usually stems from him getting excited (nervous or happy, doesn't matter).

What happens is he'll all of a sudden go out to pee, be standing there, nothing comes out. It will sometimes drip, sometimes be a thread-like stream. This lasts for about 3 days to a week.

We've had him to several vets for this over the years. Nothing is conclusive as to what's going on. One vet said that possibly when he gets an adrenaline rush from being happy or nervous, a gland swells against his urethra and blocks the urine. Xanax and time is the only thing that helps. His bladder gets too full and we often have to take him to the vet to get drained once or twice a day when this happens. And he's very uncomfortable the whole time, getting up to try to pee every 10 minutes. I'm quite certain this will happen after surgery.

And he has to wear a cone for 2 weeks after surgery. That will also make him upset/nervous (so if he doesn't get the urine problem from the surgery, he'll get it from wearing the cone). So the poor pup is going to be recovering from anal surgery, but have to get up every 10 minutes to try to pee. I also don't know how I'm going to keep my golden doodle from licking cancer-dogs butt for 2 weeks. That's what we're looking at if all goes well with the surgery. (I don't know what happened to my font here).

Also, the surgery doesn't usually get every bit of cancer since they can't do good margins around it, so it's comes back. Reading PetMed, etc, it's almost 50% chance.

So if he only had 6 months to a year left anyway because of his legs, and this tumor/cancer wouldn't affect him until then anyway, we'll leave it alone. If I'm remembering correctly, the vet aspirated it already and the cells were inconclusive as to whether they were cancer or not. I have a call into my regular vet to discuss all this with her. Also going for a 3rd opinion.




Not sure where you are located but many cancer patients have had great success with this vet:

http://holisticpetcarenj.com/

THANK YOU!!! we're about an hour away, we'll go there for an opinion.
 
We had an elderly cat diagnosed with cancer about a year and a half ago.
There were a lot of options - amputate the leg, chemo, radiation etc.
However and our vet was in total support/agreement, none of these options were in the best interest of our cat.
We opted to make his last months as comfortable as possible and when his bad days began to outweigh his good days, we put him down.
We loved that cat, had him about 14 years but putting an elderly animal thru that kind of trauma IMO is more about me the person who loves the animal than it is about the animal.
I'm so sorry your baby is going thru this, nothing worse than when our beloved pets decline. We put down another elderly cat just before Christmas due to liver failure, it happens and he had a great life.
 
Just wanted to send a :hug:. My lab just had surgery last week for a lump but it was not cancer. He is also 10 years old and his legs aren't in the best of shape. He already had a cancer tumor removed about two years ago. I figured if this latest lump was cancer I did not want him put through anything too drastic as I don't know how much longer he has anyway. My last lab only lasted till just past his 11th birthday. I know it's probably so hard for you and I don't have any advice except to follow what your heart thinks. Good luck to you all.
 
The surgery itself seems pretty risky, that's our real dilemma. If they cut a nerve that's "right there", he will not be able to hold his poop anymore; we'd have to put him down if that happened (imagine if that happens and it wasn't cancer).

Also, he gets a urine problem every couple/few months where he can't pee. It usually stems from him getting excited (nervous or happy, doesn't matter).

What happens is he'll all of a sudden go out to pee, be standing there, nothing comes out. It will sometimes drip, sometimes be a thread-like stream. This lasts for about 3 days to a week.

We've had him to several vets for this over the years. Nothing is conclusive as to what's going on. One vet said that possibly when he gets an adrenaline rush from being happy or nervous, a gland swells against his urethra and blocks the urine. Xanax and time is the only thing that helps. His bladder gets too full and we often have to take him to the vet to get drained once or twice a day when this happens. And he's very uncomfortable the whole time, getting up to try to pee every 10 minutes. I'm quite certain this will happen after surgery.

And he has to wear a cone for 2 weeks after surgery. That will also make him upset/nervous (so if he doesn't get the urine problem from the surgery, he'll get it from wearing the cone). So the poor pup is going to be recovering from anal surgery, but have to get up every 10 minutes to try to pee. I also don't know how I'm going to keep my golden doodle from licking cancer-dogs butt for 2 weeks. That's what we're looking at if all goes well with the surgery. (I don't know what happened to my font here).

Also, the surgery doesn't usually get every bit of cancer since they can't do good margins around it, so it's comes back. Reading PetMed, etc, it's almost 50% chance.

So if he only had 6 months to a year left anyway because of his legs, and this tumor/cancer wouldn't affect him until then anyway, we'll leave it alone. If I'm remembering correctly, the vet aspirated it already and the cells were inconclusive as to whether they were cancer or not. I have a call into my regular vet to discuss all this with her. Also going for a 3rd opinion.
I hear you. There is a lot to consider.

I've done a little reading around. It is possible that a metastasis from a tumor in the area is also causing the urination problem, as it's reported that sometimes this can happen with anal gland tumors, ie spread to the urinary tract (and cause other renal problems). They say that often calcium levels in the blood are high with anal gland tumors, was that the case for him? Also reports of metastasis to abdominal area which causes GI symptoms, has he had any of those? Or swelling or pain in his abdomen? (That could affecting his walking, as well.) Sometimes they XRay and/or ultrasound to see if there are any abdominal lymph nodes enlarged. That is up to you, if it's been suggested. They also say these tumors are fairly rare, and are more common in femaies.

On the other hand, as far as saying that they could cut a nerve during the surgery and it could cause fecal incontinence, well, they have to say that as part of informed consent for the surgery. What's being reported is that it's a rare complication and happens more when you take out anal glands on both sides as opposed to one side. They also say that if it does happen, it usually resolves after a few weeks. So I don't know how much I'd let that sway me. There are risks with any surgery. And you need to know whether this is cancer or not, so the benefit would outweigh the risks. I don't put a lot of stock into aspiration for cancer cells. One of my dogs had this done and was told it was not cancer, when in fact it was, so the reliability can be sketchy, as opposed to a biopsy.

The cone and the other dog being annoying, sure, it's a pain. But I would just keep them separated, maybe put the GSD in a quiet room with a gate up so he can rest and not be bothered by others. Two weeks goes by pretty fast. Just to address some of your concerns. Again though, anything and everything is up to you. You have to do what feels right to you. Whichever way you go, it's hard. I mean, I'd think that vets have lots of experience with these things, so if they're telling you that they think it's cancer, then I guess you have to trust their judgement. But it's good to verify, as you're doing. I just think that nobody can say with absolute certainty whether it is, or isn't, unless the tumor is studied under a microscope by a pathologist. If it turns out to be positive, then you know in your heart you did everything you could. If it's not, then you likely will buy him some time.

From the standpoint of the rear leg weakness, that in itself can be pretty devastating to deal with. But I'd also want to know if this was related to a cancerous process or not. It may not be. But heck, if you've ever had a hemorrhoid, you can imagine how utterly painful an enlarged anal gland would be! :scared: These are just my thoughts tonight, I'm sure you've read all over the place and anything I link you've probably already seen. Good luck with your decision. Let us know what happens after you get the third opinion. Slightly OT but I think veterinarians sort of feel out the way that owners want to go and try to be supportive of that when they're dealing with these situations. At least that's sort of been my experience.

ETA just quickly: http://ifro.ku.dk/english/staff/?pure=en/publications/veterinarians-role-in-clients-decisionmaking-regarding-seriously-ill-companion-animal-patients(07da6807-8ace-4fdd-accf-a277f850654f).html
 
Last edited:
I can't thank you enough for reading around and giving me your thoughts.

I hear you. There is a lot to consider.

I've done a little reading around. It is possible that a metastasis from a tumor in the area is also causing the urination problem, as it's reported that sometimes this can happen with anal gland tumors, ie spread to the urinary tract (and cause other renal problems).

He's had the urine problem since he was 2 years old or younger, so I'd say it's not related (I'd assume).


They say that often calcium levels in the blood are high with anal gland tumors, was that the case for him?

They checked that, his are good right now, bloodwork is normal.


Also reports of metastasis to abdominal area which causes GI symptoms, has he had any of those?

No GI problems. Is eating normally.


Or swelling or pain in his abdomen? (That could affecting his walking, as well.)

Not that we're aware of, both vets gave a good checkup, so I'd assume they would have felt swelling.


Sometimes they XRay and/or ultrasound to see if there are any abdominal lymph nodes enlarged. That is up to you, if it's been suggested. They also say these tumors are fairly rare, and are more common in femaies.

On the other hand, as far as saying that they could cut a nerve during the surgery and it could cause fecal incontinence, well, they have to say that as part of informed consent for the surgery. What's being reported is that it's a rare complication and happens more when you take out anal glands on both sides as opposed to one side. They also say that if it does happen, it usually resolves after a few weeks. So I don't know how much I'd let that sway me. There are risks with any surgery. And you need to know whether this is cancer or not, so the benefit would outweigh the risks. I don't put a lot of stock into aspiration for cancer cells. One of my dogs had this done and was told it was not cancer, when in fact it was, so the reliability can be sketchy, as opposed to a biopsy.

The cone and the other dog being annoying, sure, it's a pain. But I would just keep them separated, maybe put the GSD in a quiet room with a gate up so he can rest and not be bothered by others. Two weeks goes by pretty fast. Just to address some of your concerns. Again though, anything and everything is up to you. You have to do what feels right to you. Whichever way you go, it's hard. I mean, I'd think that vets have lots of experience with these things, so if they're telling you that they think it's cancer, then I guess you have to trust their judgement. But it's good to verify, as you're doing. I just think that nobody can say with absolute certainty whether it is, or isn't, unless the tumor is studied under a microscope by a pathologist. If it turns out to be positive, then you know in your heart you did everything you could. If it's not, then you likely will buy him some time.

From the standpoint of the rear leg weakness, that in itself can be pretty devastating to deal with. But I'd also want to know if this was related to a cancerous process or not.

The vet has been watching his back arthritis for a few years. Every couple of years he's had a X-ray, the arthritis is in his spine from his head to his tail, affecting all 4 legs now. He's doing a bit better on Rimadyl, which I'm thankful for.


It may not be. But heck, if you've ever had a hemorrhoid, you can imagine how utterly painful an enlarged anal gland would be! :scared: These are just my thoughts tonight, I'm sure you've read all over the place and anything I link you've probably already seen. Good luck with your decision. Let us know what happens after you get the third opinion. Slightly OT but I think veterinarians sort of feel out the way that owners want to go and try to be supportive of that when they're dealing with these situations. At least that's sort of been my experience.

ETA just quickly: http://ifro.ku.dk/english/staff/?pure=en/publications/veterinarians-role-in-clients-decisionmaking-regarding-seriously-ill-companion-animal-patients(07da6807-8ace-4fdd-accf-a277f850654f).html


Spoke with a friend who is a vet tech, and she suggested that if we're not going to operate, asking my vet about Steroids. She said it would replace the Rimadyl as helping his pain in his legs, and can shrink the tumor. Of course there are side affects, she said excessive drinking and peeing is one.

Do you have any thoughts on that? Again, thank you soooo very much for your thoughts.
 
Personally, I'd absolutely take a pet to surgery to remove a grape-sized mass so long as there was no evidence of metastasis.

Regarding the arthritis, ask your vet about Adequan injections. It's done wonders for managing my cat's arthritis for the past two to three years. (Treatment for cats is an off-label use; it's designed for use in dogs.) It has a high success rate and is a very benign drug in terms of side effects, although it is a blood thinner so they would probably want to wait until after surgery to start your dog on it.
 
Personally, I'd absolutely take a pet to surgery to remove a grape-sized mass so long as there was no evidence of metastasis.

Regarding the arthritis, ask your vet about Adequan injections. It's done wonders for managing my cat's arthritis for the past two to three years. (Treatment for cats is an off-label use; it's designed for use in dogs.) It has a high success rate and is a very benign drug in terms of side effects, although it is a blood thinner so they would probably want to wait until after surgery to start your dog on it.

Thank you so much for your reply.

If the surgery weren't in a risky place, we'd do it in a heartbeat. He had a mass removed on his side last year. We didn't hesitate to have the surgery done. This one isn't a regular surgery, it's a speciality. The vets around me don't do it, we have to go to the specialist.

And thanks for the Adequan suggestion. He's been getting those shots for years now. So glad you mentioned it's a blood thinner though, no one mentioned that. In case we decide to do the surgery, that's important.
 
Thank you so much for your reply.

If the surgery weren't in a risky place, we'd do it in a heartbeat. He had a mass removed on his side last year. We didn't hesitate to have the surgery done. This one isn't a regular surgery, it's a speciality. The vets around me don't do it, we have to go to the specialist.

And thanks for the Adequan suggestion. He's been getting those shots for years now. So glad you mentioned it's a blood thinner though, no one mentioned that. In case we decide to do the surgery, that's important.
In that case, it's my understanding that they'd want to suspend the injections a few weeks prior to any surgeries and resume them after. Best of luck with whatever you decide. :goodvibes
 

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