How Kneeling Became a Protest Symbol

[FlightlessDuck]

And if you're a Christian, it's idolatry, and will get you in pretty deep doo-doo with the Big Guy.

Without going much into the theology of forgiveness of sins, etc. (regarding "pretty deep doo-doo"), I will mention that this is actually one of the reasons I don't put my hand over my heart during the anthem. I will stand. I will even take off my hat. I'm not going to make a show of not doing it. But I am not going to honor a flag. I also don't say the pledge of allegiance. In both instances, instead, I bow my head and pray (and I don't make a big show of that either, due to Matthew 6:6). My allegiance is to my creator, not my country. And telling me "if I don't like it, leave" won't change anything. I don't have an allegiance to another country, either.

 

[kaytieeldr]

If we flew the flag at half mast everytime someone dies, it would never be raised. It is flown at half mast during a period of national mourning. But who gets to decide that?

"Private citizens and non-government buildings may choose to fly their flags at half-staff to honor more local leaders. The Flag Code does not exclude any citizen, whether belonging to an organization or not, whether they are recognized very locally or regionally. Examples of deceased citizens who might be honored with by lowering the flag to half-staff include local religious leaders, youth leaders, honored teachers or sports coaches, local politicians, or a local hero. There need be no authorization from the government for the private sector (non-government) to use the Flag to honor any citizen."
https://www.gettysburgflag.com/fly-flag-half-mast

“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,” Kaepernick told NFL Mediaafter Friday’s game.

Um, I think you might have emphasized the wrong part of that statement.
“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,” Kaepernick told NFL Mediaafter Friday’s game.

 

[kaytieeldr]

And that's the whole point. Literally no one is telling you that you can't feel that way, or stand, or salute, or put your hand over your heart or sing at the top of your voice. No one has told you that it is wrong, you however are trying to stop someone else from doing what they feel is right....and is their right.

Um, no. People tell me all. the. time. that I can't sing. At any volume!

 

[DopeyDame]

Um, no. People tell me all. the. time. that I can't sing. At any volume!

DItto.
Sadly. ;-)

 

[cabanafrau]

It’s so hard for me to respect anyone who protests our flag, let alone someone who does it wearing socks with pictures of cops depicted as pigs on them.

IMO that idea doesn't respect what the flag is supposed to stand for -- the right to be free and exercise free speech of different opinions. If there's no respect for exercising the freedoms and rights that flag symbolizes, at that point it's just a piece of cloth.

 

[cabanafrau]

As long as they stand for the national anthem, and maybe jump up and down a bit, I see no problem with it!

Nope. I have the right not to listen to other voices on a subject where my mind is made up. I was brought up to believe that burning the flag and not standing for the anthem or pledge is disrespectful. That's how I raised my kids. Not changing my views on the topic no matter how many NFL players or female soccer players do it. I've listened to the arguments. You will never convince me that doing this a legitimate form of protest. Has the same legitimacy as looting a Target.

Deeply respect a piece of cloth.
No hesitation whatsoever to openly express disdain and disrespect for fellow citizens simply because they're female.
Those are absolutely not the values I was raised to believe the flag stands for -- and it's certainly not the understanding I passed along to my children.

 

[Canooknic]

Um, no. People tell me all. the. time. that I can't sing. At any volume!

I don't sing out of respect for all people!

 

[cabanafrau]

Are you against people exercising their rights? You do know that's what they're doing, right?
And you are more than welcome to look down on them for doing so. What you can't do is FORCE them to stand & salute. Or do you think you should be able to?

China has laws requiring exactly that for their flag and anthem. Maybe some people think that's aspirational and something America should be striving for? Apparently all of their citizens agree with everything their government does after all.

 

[Allison]

Elevating the symbol itself above the principles it stands for is the ultimate disrespect.

Best statement in the entire thread.

Really? You know the flag is not just fabric. It’s a symbol of our freedom.

The lack of awareness in this statement is strong.

 

[SaintsManiac]

China has laws requiring exactly that for their flag and anthem. Maybe some people think that's aspirational and something America should be striving for? Apparently all of their citizens agree with everything their government does after all.

Mask wearing is bad. Forced patriotism is good.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Deeply respect a piece of cloth.
No hesitation whatsoever to openly express disdain and disrespect for fellow citizens simply because they're female.
Those are absolutely not the values I was raised to believe the flag stands for -- and it's certainly not the understanding I passed along to my children.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who picked up on that hypocrisy.

So kneeling before a flag - not good
Cutting it up to wear as a string bikini - good.

If we’re going to talk about anything being distasteful and disrespectful, it’ll be @Darklord77 talking about it being even better if they jump up down. And do not come at me with that it was a joke. I don’t care.

 

[Searc]

No. She told me to Stop. Why should I? Just as you have a right to feel the way you do, so do I.

You're entirely missing the point of you thinking you can have whatever rights Freedom of Speech affords you, but you don't extend those same rights to Kaepernick.

 

[Darklord77]

If we’re going to talk about anything being distasteful and disrespectful, it’ll be @Darklord77 talking about it being even better if they jump up down. And do not come at me with that it was a joke. I don’t care.

Thanks for the shout out. However, the girls in that pic did not cut up a flag to wear them as bikinis. If I have a shirt on that has part of the flag on it did I cut it up? They were wearing it to show their patriotism. Kneeling is not a sign of patriotism. Big difference. And no it was not a joke.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Thanks for the shout out. However, the girls in that pic did not cut up a flag to wear them as bikinis. If I have a shirt on that has part of the flag on it did I cut it up? They were wearing it to show their patriotism. Kneeling is not a sign of patriotism. Big difference. And no it was not a joke.

Semantics and you know it.

Between your definition of patriotism and that it wasn’t a joke, I know all I need to.

 

[Dizneefamily+4]

People can protest. Never said they couldn’t. However, I don’t believe the time to do it is when we are saluting the flag and singing the national anthem. As a family member of many who served in the military, including a WWII Veteran, I have too much respect for them to kneel, especially when we are honoring them.

And my father-in-law who served as a helicopter pilot in Vietnam, and earned a purple heart, fully supports the rights of those kneeling. In his words, "their right to kneel is EXACTLY what I served and fought for."

 

[wvjules]

And my father-in-law who served as a helicopter pilot in Vietnam, and earned a purple heart, fully supports the rights of those kneeling. In his words, "their right to kneel is EXACTLY what I served and fought for."

At risk of turning this thread into a whole other thing....

How does someone serving in Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc equate to them fighting for our rights of free speech, the right to kneel, etc.? (I say this a a daughter of man that served in Vietnam.) I get the intent behind those words but I really don't understand it. Fighting in most of these wars did nothing to further our rights, or to preserve them. To me those that served in the Revolutionary War and Civil war are the ones that can claim that that is what they served and fought for.

I am not asking to be flamed, nor am I asking to start an argument. I am genuinely curious.

 

[Darklord77]

Semantics and you know it.

Between your definition of patriotism and that it wasn’t a joke, I know all I need to.

Semantics? Do you honestly think it was the intention of those lovely ladies to disrespect our beautiful flag? It was the exact opposite and I salute them for their patriotism. They are also wearing the bikinis because they can and they want to be noticed. Mission accomplished! I know some people will get offended by their show of patriotism or maybe just be offended because they look happy. Nowadays you are only "woke" if you are absolutely miserable in life. If wearing an article of clothing that depicts the flag is not patriotic then we have a lot of unpatriotic folks walking around.

My definition of patriotism? My form of patriotism is not going to a ball game and taking a knee during the anthem because I don't agree with something. That much I know for sure.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

Semantics? Do you honestly think it was the intention of those lovely ladies to disrespect our beautiful flag? It was the exact opposite and I salute them for their patriotism. They are also wearing the bikinis because they can and they want to be noticed. Mission accomplished! I know some people will get offended by their show of patriotism or maybe just be offended because they look happy. Nowadays you are only "woke" if you are absolutely miserable in life. If wearing an article of clothing that depicts the flag is not patriotic then we have a lot of unpatriotic folks walking around.

My definition of patriotism? My form of patriotism is not going to a ball game and taking a knee during the anthem because I don't agree with something. That much I know for sure.

Being woke doesn’t make one miserable.
And actually I don’t have a problem with the flag on clothing. I do have a problem with hypocrisy of using the flag that way being ok but not kneeling.

I do have major problems with your comment about the women jumping up and down but that has nothing to with me being “woke”.

 

[sam_gordon]

Thanks for the shout out. However, the girls in that pic did not cut up a flag to wear them as bikinis. If I have a shirt on that has part of the flag on it did I cut it up? They were wearing it to show their patriotism. Kneeling is not a sign of patriotism. Big difference. And no it was not a joke.

According to the flag code...
The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery.

 

[Dizneefamily+4]

At risk of turning this thread into a whole other thing....

How does someone serving in Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc equate to them fighting for our rights of free speech, the right to kneel, etc.? (I say this a a daughter of man that served in Vietnam.) I get the intent behind those words but I really don't understand it. Fighting in most of these wars did nothing to further our rights, or to preserve them. To me those that served in the Revolutionary War and Civil war are the ones that can claim that that is what they served and fought for.

I am not asking to be flamed, nor am I asking to start an argument. I am genuinely curious.

Well, it's HIS opinion, however, my interpretation is that they were fighting for freedom in general. They served and they fought. I'm not sure that I feel it necessary to argue over what they were fighting for - or why our country decided to enter those wars. I guess you'll have to take that up with our country's leaders.