How is FP+ making other lines longer?

[indigoxtreme]

Also it is Spring Break month So lines are longer

 

[OtherScott]

As TDC Nala pointed out earlier, if the CMs are actually holding back the SB line waiting for FP people to saunter in from the sidewalk giving them clear passage with no SB people in their way as if they were the Royal Family, then the SB line isn't moving and to those people it is longer.

If borne out, how hard is the fix? Training?

 

[mom2rtk]

If borne out, how hard is the fix? Training?

They can't slow down the FP return line or it will build up even more into the walkways. They need to feed them into that FP line faster.

Maybe they could give people little tickets to show the ride attendants for admission into the fastpass line so they don't have to scan each band and wait troubleshoot the blue Mickeys.

 

[JimmyV]

If borne out, how hard is the fix? Training?

Training and guest expectations, I imagine. I am not at all sure why, under FP-, the CMs would take 30 people from the SB line, and then stop in, and let 20 people from the FP line in, and so on, and now they take the endless stream of FP people until there are no more in line and none visible on the horizon. It is either poor training, or they think they are managing the expectations of FP+ people who (unreasonably) assume that the seas should part around them. Or.....the problem is that the FP lines are backing up in an unsightly manner into the park into areas that are not supposed to accomodate people due to the whole Mickey Post problem. For example, where our FP return line for Space Mountain interfered with all of Tomorrow Land backing all the way up to the Astro Orbiter elevator, some CM probably heard in their ear piece, "Clear out the FP line. Get those people moving. We can't have them clogging up Tomorrow Land!!" So the CM lets all 200 people in the FP line go through and holds up the SB line allowing no one to pass. Whatever the reason, as I noted in this or some other thread, we witnessed a near riot at BTMRR because the line didn't move a single inch in 20-30 minutes and the FP return line looped around the ride several times ending at the exit area over by Tom Sawyer's Island. I suppose under such circumstance, someone said, again, "Clear out that line!"

I do note that many people are now reporting that CMs are shouting "One Mickey touch per group" whereas when I was there, every person had to get past the Green Gate Keeper, so that probably had something to do with it. Also, if they are doling out more FPs than before, the old ratios of 30 SB/20 FP people is no longer sustainable. That is not to suggest that they have allocated more FPs now, (although I think they are) but since more FPs are being reserved, more are being used. This may not impact rides that used to "sell out" of FPs, because the number is the number. But for a ride like Buzz that perhaps had a capacity of 5,000 FPs but only distributed 3,000 on a given day, now, if that number maxes out, they have more FP people to accomodate and the old ratios have to go out the window. But there have to be more FPs distributed now because people can self-populate the reservation book in advance. Other than TSM and perhaps Soarin', no ride distributed 100% of its "first two hours" FPs. Because you were limited to pulling one every two hours, once you pulled one at 9:00, you couldn't pull one again untill 11:00 (or your return time, likely 9:45). So many rides had no "takers" for the first several hours. Even if a ride "sold out" of FPs, that didn't mean that all FPs were actually pulled. It just meant that all the FPs for the later hours were pulled. The system could not go back in time and back fill with unused earlier times. Now it can. Every minute of every hour of the day will be used for popular rides, so that has to equate to more FPs being issued per ride. Not more than the old "theoretical capacity". But that old "theoretical capacity" was probably never achieved (except at TSM).

These are some of the issues that were clearly not foreseen by Disney. That is not to say that they aren't correctable. But it does explain why some early users are coming back with failing reports. Yes, this is a test. But not everyone wants to be a test monkey.

 

[Goofy4WDW1964]

The only experience with FP+ that I am concerned about is my families. One of the concerns I have is the pre-selecting it takes. One of the reasons we stopped doing the dining plan was because we didn't like having to set our reservations in advance because that pretty much locked us into a park on certain days. Now, don't get me wrong, I am a planner and I do plan ahead, but I also want to have some fexibility. We chose to do less sit down meals so that we could keep the flexibility.

Now, to get a fast pass, I am going to have to go back to selecting in advance and I am going to be locked into a park again if I want the fast pass. I am not holding on to the notion that I will be able to switch the day of once this is in full swing. What makes it worse is, we are park hoppers and we can't select for different parks for the same day.

I am willing to give it a try to see how it works. But, I can tell you, that if it lessens my family's enjoyment, I will let them know why we aren't coming back. I don't pay for anyone elses vacation so I don't give a mouses behind how the system benefits anyone but me.

Before this system, we were able to do everything we wanted without waiting in long lines. We are not commando people and we fully expect to wait in lines when we go. But, if line waits for things like POTC and HM increase, it may be a deal breaker for us.

 

[TDC Nala]

Part of the problem with the FP return line - saw this a lot a little while ago - was the guests who were not wearing their bands and had to pause to dig bands for an entire family out of a backpack. Of course you don't have to wear the bands if you prefer not to. But I don't know if Disney anticipated that enough guests would choose not to wear them, and would not have them ready to go at the time they reached the scanner, to hold up the lines. This system depends on a quick touch and walk through.

 

[mjr0483]

I guess this all makes sense to a point. I think I remember hearing the adoption rate of legacy FP wasn't high. So us commandos as previously mentioned were the ones using FP. So with the new system and the implementation of MDE, the FP+ rates must be up.

I know myself, previously wouldn't have FP Spaceship Earth, Figment or Mission Space for that mater. But with the tiering they leave you know choice. I get 3 and I am darn well going to book 3.

I bet the number of FP+ distributed in a day must be astronomically higher than legacy FP.

So the next question is, we know the commandos are flipping mad. How is the overall satisfaction of the casual vacationer who never used FP?

 

[redsbe]

my travel agent who books many WDW trips and has done so for years, told me that new first time visitors are liking MBs and pre-booking FP+s, the complaining is coming from experienced long time returning WDW visitors who are having to change or adapt their usual planning and expectations.

 

[Kristine316]

The only experience with FP+ that I am concerned about is my families. One of the concerns I have is the pre-selecting it takes. One of the reasons we stopped doing the dining plan was because we didn't like having to set our reservations in advance because that pretty much locked us into a park on certain days. Now, don't get me wrong, I am a planner and I do plan ahead, but I also want to have some fexibility. We chose to do less sit down meals so that we could keep the flexibility.

Now, to get a fast pass, I am going to have to go back to selecting in advance and I am going to be locked into a park again if I want the fast pass. I am not holding on to the notion that I will be able to switch the day of once this is in full swing. What makes it worse is, we are park hoppers and we can't select for different parks for the same day.

I am willing to give it a try to see how it works. But, I can tell you, that if it lessens my family's enjoyment, I will let them know why we aren't coming back. I don't pay for anyone elses vacation so I don't give a mouses behind how the system benefits anyone but me.

Before this system, we were able to do everything we wanted without waiting in long lines. We are not commando people and we fully expect to wait in lines when we go. But, if line waits for things like POTC and HM increase, it may be a deal breaker for us.

I totally agree with this.

It makes choosing the correct park for each day of the vacation extremely important. This is why I have been very closely following Crowd Calendars and Predictions... if a guest picks the wrong park, they are pretty much stuck because chances are they won't be able to change their FP+ choices the same day.

I know reports have been that a guest is able to change their FP+ selections the day of but, that was before off site guests were able to also reserve their choices in advance.. I think we will see the end of being able to change on the fly even in the slower times.

Something just dawned on me... I have noticed that some of the most recommended parks have been off a little recently. I keep hearing how the vast majority of park guests never use these sites but, is that really true? I am sure it was true in the past but, think about it.. now that everyone is making FP+ selections at least a month in advance it is probably leading to way more planning and research in advance from people who probably never even thought about checking these websites before. Now, they have to figure out what park to go to on what day.. so now they are going to Easywdw or Touring Plans because these are the sites most people hear about when they are planning their WDW vacations.
I do wonder if more people are using these sites now and going to the recommended parks, which in turn could actually make a most recommended park be busier than it normally would?

Even if it is only an increase of 10% of guests now using these sites to figure out which park to make their FP+ selections at that never used these sites before, that number could be enough to tip the scales on the most recommended park. I keep having people tell me this is impossible and wrong but, I don't know... I think it makes sense.

I mean for the longest time going to WDW in early December was considered the sweet spot.. the perfect time to go. Then the secret got out and crowds have been increasing every year at that time to the point where now it is no longer considered the best time to go... September and Late January are starting to go down that path of busier and busier every year as it seems every website for WDW planning tells us these are the best times of the year to take a WDW vacation.
These planning sites work because the vast majority isn't in on the secret but, now Disney has made it so more and more people have to plan out their vacations months in advance, to me that spells more people taking the advice of a WDW planning site and it also means these sites become less valuable as more people are in on the secrets.

I know I will have people tell me how wrong I am.. and who knows I maybe way off but, things are changing because of FP+ and things that were true in the past are not true anymore.

 

[Kristine316]

my travel agent who books many WDW trips and has done so for years, told me that new first time visitors are liking MBs and pre-booking FP+s, the complaining is coming from experienced long time returning WDW visitors who are having to change or adapt their usual planning and expectations.

This is probably true but, does Disney really want to alienate and lose their long time, loyal customer? Those families that go back year after year and buy into their DVC?

Eventually if Disney pushes away their most loyal customer they will be looking at financial difficulties because if the economy tanks again and we all know it will at some point, what will keep them afloat if not the hardcore family that comes back year after year? In rough economic times it is that family who will sacrifice and save to get to WDW no matter what... the first time WDW guest won't be heading there under those circumstances more than likely.

Right now numbers maybe terrific and the parks packed but, time will tell if that continues if the longtime Disney family starts vacationing there less and less because of changes they do not like.

I think Disney maybe taking a big risk that may not hurt them now or next year but, very possibly could hurt them in the future.

 

[Shaden]

my travel agent who books many WDW trips and has done so for years, told me that new first time visitors are liking MBs and pre-booking FP+s, the complaining is coming from experienced long time returning WDW visitors who are having to change or adapt their usual planning and expectations.

I could very much see this being the case.

To someone who knows nothing different, the system sounds great I would imagine.

The question is, who is responsible for a more significant amount of Disney revenue ? Who is most easily replaced ?

I would think the repeat loyal guests spend more than their numerical proportion of money at wdw, if only because they are repeat guests. Much harder to replace than first time or once in a lifetimers.

 

[Disneylover99]

So the next question is, we know the commandos are flipping mad. How is the overall satisfaction of the casual vacationer who never used FP?

Well if they've never used FP and now they are getting 3 FP's they must think this new system is great. I mean what's not to love? But as I've said before, it's really the perception that it's great. If these same people used FP before FP+ then maybe they wouldn't think it was so great now.

 

[Shaden]

So the next question is, we know the commandos are flipping mad. How is the overall satisfaction of the casual vacationer who never used FP?

Well if they've never used FP and now they are getting 3 FP's they must think this new system is great. I mean what's not to love? But as I've said before, it's really the perception that it's great. If these same people used FP before FP+ then maybe they wouldn't think it was so great now.

This actually becomes a function of two things though, I am sure its awesome to be able to skip a few lines, and if they didn't expect it, all the better.

BUT, if the lines for other rides they want to go on are doubling or in some cases tripling (and some rides really are doing that), they might actually not end up too happy.

It depends which you think would be better accepted.

Would you rather wait in 6 30 min lines ... or skip 3 lines and wait in 3 1 Hour lines ???

(of course, this assumes FP+ is a total walk on, and some of the lines people have been reporting for FP+ return, aren't walk ons )

 

[TISHLOVESDISNEY]

I totally agree with this.

It makes choosing the correct park for each day of the vacation extremely important. This is why I have been very closely following Crowd Calendars and Predictions... if a guest picks the wrong park, they are pretty much stuck because chances are they won't be able to change their FP+ choices the same day.

I know reports have been that a guest is able to change their FP+ selections the day of but, that was before off site guests were able to also reserve their choices in advance.. I think we will see the end of being able to change on the fly even in the slower times.

Something just dawned on me... I have noticed that some of the most recommended parks have been off a little recently. I keep hearing how the vast majority of park guests never use these sites but, is that really true? I am sure it was true in the past but, think about it.. now that everyone is making FP+ selections at least a month in advance it is probably leading to way more planning and research in advance from people who probably never even thought about checking these websites before. Now, they have to figure out what park to go to on what day.. so now they are going to Easywdw or Touring Plans because these are the sites most people hear about when they are planning their WDW vacations.
I do wonder if more people are using these sites now and going to the recommended parks, which in turn could actually make a most recommended park be busier than it normally would?

Even if it is only an increase of 10% of guests now using these sites to figure out which park to make their FP+ selections at that never used these sites before, that number could be enough to tip the scales on the most recommended park. I keep having people tell me this is impossible and wrong but, I don't know... I think it makes sense.

I mean for the longest time going to WDW in early December was considered the sweet spot.. the perfect time to go. Then the secret got out and crowds have been increasing every year at that time to the point where now it is no longer considered the best time to go... September and Late January are starting to go down that path of busier and busier every year as it seems every website for WDW planning tells us these are the best times of the year to take a WDW vacation.
These planning sites work because the vast majority isn't in on the secret but, now Disney has made it so more and more people have to plan out their vacations months in advance, to me that spells more people taking the advice of a WDW planning site and it also means these sites become less valuable as more people are in on the secrets.

I know I will have people tell me how wrong I am.. and who knows I maybe way off but, things are changing because of FP+ and things that were true in the past are not true anymore.

I wonder about this too. The internet is used for everything these days, by everyone...

 

[JeremyGNJ]

I could very much see this being the case.

To someone who knows nothing different, the system sounds great I would imagine.

The question is, who is responsible for a more significant amount of Disney revenue ? Who is most easily replaced ?

I would think the repeat loyal guests spend more than their numerical proportion of money at wdw, if only because they are repeat guests. Much harder to replace than first time or once in a lifetimers.

This is easy to answer. The answer is:

The people who don't know how to plan for the cheapest rates. The people who buy a ton of souvenirs because they don't know if they'll ever be back again. The people who do not buy food and eat it in their room for breakfast. The people who don't know which restaurants are not worth the money.

The casual visitors spend more per day than the frequently returning visitors.

 

[xie]

I do note that many people are now reporting that CMs are shouting "One Mickey touch per group" whereas when I was there, every person had to get past the Green Gate Keeper, so that probably had something to do with it.

If this is true, we're all screwed. People will stop booking the entire party, and instead, they'll book 1 person into each ride they want, and use that person as the "scanner" to get the others in via FP "for free". In other words, a 4 person party could reserve 12 different FP+ rides/times (3 each person), and piggyback on each other's bands. It would take a little planning but it would be very easily done. You wanna ride Soarin 4 times with FP+? Easy, all 4 of you simply book your own Soarin FP+ at different times and take the others in with you.

Disney-sanctioned exploits, that's the last thing FP+ needs. But if it's really happening it explains some things.

 

[Shaden]

This is easy to answer. The answer is:

The people who don't know how to plan for the cheapest rates. The people who buy a ton of souvenirs because they don't know if they'll ever be back again. The people who do not buy food and eat it in their room for breakfast. The people who don't know which restaurants are not worth the money.

The casual visitors spend more per day than the frequently returning visitors.

But do they ?

You are only counting on a 1:1 visit.

Sure, if a visitor books a once in a lifetime trip and doesn't know to try and get discounts, etc. They pay more per trip. But, I started going a few years ago, first for 8 days. Now we are going for 15 days, and we generally know we do this every year. We spend and continue to spend far more than a once in a life timer, because we go back, for longer and longer each year.

There are people here who go multiple times a year. No first timer, no matter what they spend, can compete with that.

 

[Shaden]

If this is true, we're all screwed. People will stop booking the entire party, and instead, they'll book 1 person into each ride they want, and use that person as the "scanner" to get the others in via FP "for free". In other words, a 4 person party could reserve 12 different FP+ rides/times (3 each person), and piggyback on each other's bands. It would take a little planning but it would be very easily done. You wanna ride Soarin 4 times with FP+? Easy, all 4 of you simply book your own Soarin FP+ at different times and take the others in with you.

Disney-sanctioned exploits, that's the last thing FP+ needs. But if it's really happening it explains some things.

I will actually be giving this a shot on our next trip.

 

[JimmyV]

If this is true, we're all screwed. People will stop booking the entire party, and instead, they'll book 1 person into each ride they want, and use that person as the "scanner" to get the others in via FP "for free". In other words, a 4 person party could reserve 12 different FP+ rides/times (3 each person), and piggyback on each other's bands. It would take a little planning but it would be very easily done. You wanna ride Soarin 4 times with FP+? Easy, all 4 of you simply book your own Soarin FP+ at different times and take the others in with you.

Disney-sanctioned exploits, that's the last thing FP+ needs. But if it's really happening it explains some things.

If I understand the reports, they are only requiring a single Mickey tap at the first Mickey to prevent the lines from backing up into the parks, but everyone will still need to tap the second Mickey at the ride boarding area.

 

[ilovemk76]

I could very much see this being the case.

To someone who knows nothing different, the system sounds great I would imagine.

I know somebody who is down there right now. She has been twice before, once with use, and used FP- both times. They absolutely love the MBs and FP+. They are repeat customers.

The question is, who is responsible for a more significant amount of Disney revenue ? Who is most easily replaced ?

If the repeats on here are any indication, the first time or less frequent spends more per day. FTers pay much closer to rack rate, are less likely to bring food into the parks, are less likely to pre-buy souvenirs and so on.

There are way more people in the US and the world who could be first timers. Many here think they are way more important than they really are.

I would think the repeat loyal guests spend more than their numerical proportion of money at wdw, if only because they are repeat guests. Much harder to replace than first time or once in a lifetimers.

The total spent is not what Disney wants. They want the highest burn rate per day. That is not the repeat customer.

Well if they've never used FP and now they are getting 3 FP's they must think this new system is great. I mean what's not to love? But as I've said before, it's really the perception that it's great. If these same people used FP before FP+ then maybe they wouldn't think it was so great now.

See red above.

This actually becomes a function of two things though, I am sure its awesome to be able to skip a few lines, and if they didn't expect it, all the better.

BUT, if the lines for other rides they want to go on are doubling or in some cases tripling (and some rides really are doing that), they might actually not end up too happy.

The ones there are texting me and telling me they are having the time of their lives. They are not complaining about anything.

It depends which you think would be better accepted.

Would you rather wait in 6 30 min lines ... or skip 3 lines and wait in 3 1 Hour lines ???

In the end, I will wait for 3 hours and ride 6 rides. The appeal of the 3 FP+s is that they know they can get on 3 must do rides. Look at all that love the FP+ for TSMM.

(of course, this assumes FP+ is a total walk on, and some of the lines people have been reporting for FP+ return, aren't walk ons )

This is also assuming that the SB is also 1 hour.