Help with a traffic ticket issue

[leebee]

I've never heard of a "school permit" before or an allowed route. What are these licenses and in what states are they available?

No such thing here in Maine. You can get a permit at 15.5 but must hold it for at least 6 months before taking the driving test. We have a graduated license here. To get a license if you are under 18, you must take driver's ed that includes 36 hours of classroom time and a minimum of 10 hours of instructor-supervised driving, and you must also log an additional 36 hours of driving supervised by a parent or other licensed driver over the age of 25. Drivers under age 18 cannot transport minors, except immediate family members, for a period of 6 months after getting their licenses and must be off the road between the hours of midnight and 5am (i think these are the hours) for the same 6 months.

WHEW! So tell me about the school permits!

 

[Tink_Or_Belle]

almost all of my daughters class has "school permits" we live in a small town where most kids live in the country so it doesn;t seem odd to me. But I say she deserves the ticket
here are the rules in our state (dd is in drivers ed this week so I just read them)
What is the minimum age?
The minimum age to be eligible for a minor school license (MSL) is 14½.
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What are the basic requirements?
The student must have completed an Iowa-approved course in driver education unless exempted because of hardship as defined by Iowa Admin. Code r. 761—602.26(3).
The student must have held a valid instruction permit during the six-month period immediately preceding application for the MSL.
The student's driving history must be free of convictions for moving traffic violations, contributive accidents and license withdrawals during the six-month period immediately preceding application.
The student must live one mile or more from the school of enrollment.


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Who approves the application?
The superintendent, chairperson of the school board, or principal if authorized by the superintendent must determine eligibility and sign a Statement of Necessity/Affidavit for School License form, available from any driver's license station or downloaded from the Iowa DOT's website.
The student's parent or guardian must also provide signed consent on the Statement of Necessity/Affidavit for School License form.
The Iowa DOT issues the MSL and may require a drive test.
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When can the MSL be used?
During the hours of 5 a.m. to 10 p.m. There are no exceptions or waivers of the time period when driving on an MSL.
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Where can the student drive?
Over the most direct and accessible route between the licensee's residence and school(s) of enrollment and between schools of enrollment for the purposes of attending duly scheduled courses of instruction, and to and from extracurricular activities within the school district. The student may also drive to a service station for the purpose of refueling so long as the service station is on the most direct and accessible route or is the closest service station to the most direct and accessible route.
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Can the MSL be used to drive to another school district?
Use of the MSL is limited to the school district of residence of the parent or guardian of the student. However, it may also be used to drive to a contiguous (bordering) district if the student is enrolled in the public school which is not the school district of residence because of open enrollment under Iowa Code Section 282.18, or as a result of an election by the student's district of residence to enter into one or more sharing agreements pursuant to the procedures in Chapter 282, Code of Iowa.
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If a student's parents do not live together, whose residence is used for measuring the distance from the school of enrollment? For example, if a student's mother has primary custody and lives two blocks from the school but the father has visitation on some school days, may the student obtain an MSL to use when staying with the father who may live more than a mile from the school?
The statute allows driving to and from the licensee's residence. The official residence would seem to be with the parent who has primary custody. Anything beyond that would be a local decision made by the school district. Advice should be given by local law enforcement and the county attorney.
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Can the MSL be used to drive to another school district for athletic sharing agreements only?
No. This is not authorized by Iowa Code § 282.

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Can the MSL be used to drive to a private school?
The statue that governs the MSL does not specifically address the issuance of a MSL to students enrolled in a private school. The DOT's position is that private school students may be eligible for a MSL under Code section 321.194 and while operating on the MSL, they must comply with all the restrictions in that Code section.
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May a home-schooled and dual-enrolled student get an MSL?
If the student has completed an Iowa-approved driver education course, the student is eligible for an MSL for the limited purpose of driving to the district academic program or activity that takes place a mile or more from the student's home, unless school transportation is an option. The MSL would not be valid for driving to home school academics or activities
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May a home-schooled student get an MSL to drive to a home-schooled cooperative for music or art classes?
There is no provision in Iowa law or administrative rules to allow this.
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Is there reciprocity between Iowa and any other states so that a minor who has completed driver education in another state may get an Iowa MSL? For example, if a family moves from Nebraska and has a child who has completed a driver education program in Nebraska, must the child go through an Iowa driver education program to obtain an Iowa MSL?
Iowa law requires that applicants for an Iowa MSL provide proof of satisfactory completion of an Iowa-approved course in driver education. The law does not provide for specific reciprocity with other states as program curriculum varies. However, in the above example, the Iowa school district could choose to ask the Nebraska school to send transcript information about the Nebraska driver education course. If the Nebraska course satisfies the program requirements of an approved Iowa driver education course, then the driver education teacher and school administrator in the Iowa resident school district could choose to issue a driver education completion certificate. The Iowa DOT could then issue an MSL. The option to issue the certificate of completion would be a decision of the local school district.
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Is the MSL subject to suspension or revocation?
Yes. A conviction for a single moving traffic violation will result in a 30-day suspension. A conviction of two or more violations will result in a revocation for one year. If the license is revoked, reinstatement procedures will also require posting of proof of financial responsibility (SR-22 insurance) for two years and payment of a $50 civil penalty in addition to a reinstatement and new license fee. A suspension or revocation of an MSL also withdraws the Instruction Permit or any other driving privilege.
Iowa's Graduated Driver Licensing (GDL) Law requires that before a driver upgrades to the intermediate license, the immediate six-month period prior to application be free of contributive accidents, convictions for moving traffic violations and sanctions. The driving privilege must not be expired. If the MSL is suspended, revoked or expired, the six-month period will start over beginning on the reinstatement date or renewal date of the MSL. (MSLs and instruction permits have a 60-day grace period for renewal.)

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Can the MSL be suspended for reasons other than a conviction?
Yes. The Iowa DOT may also suspend an MSL when it receives written notice from a peace officer, parent, custodian or guardian, school superintendent, or superintendent's designee that the student has violated the restrictions of the MSL. The MSL may also be suspended under the remedial driver improvement provisions of Iowa's Graduated Driver Licensing Law and suspended due to a contributive accident.
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Is the MSL valid as an instruction permit when accompanied by a parent or guardian?
Yes. The licensee, while having the MSL in his or her immediate possession, may operate a motor vehicle at any time when accompanied by a parent, a guardian, a member of the licensee's immediate family (brother, sister or other relative who resides at the licensee's residence) who is 21 years of age or by an approved driver education instructor or prospective driver education instructor. The licensee may also operate a motor vehicle if written permission is granted by the parent or guardian when accompanied by a person who is 25 years of age or older. All accompanying persons must have a license valid for the vehicle operated and must occupy a seat beside the driver.
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Can a student transport passengers when driving on an MSL?
The statute that governs the MSL does not authorize or prohibit passengers. The DOT's position is that passengers are allowed only if they enter the vehicle at the licensee's home and exit the vehicle at the same destination as the driver. No stops along the way to pickup or discharge passengers.
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Can a student stop for fuel?
The statute that governs the MSL allows the student to drive to a service station for the purpose of refueling, provided the service station is on the most direct and accessible route or is the closest service station to the most direct and accessible route.

 

[4nana]

Good luck with this OP - I hope everything works out for your DD. If officer knew your DD, IMO he should have indeed stopped her immediately. Why take the chance of her getting in more trouble or perhaps wrecking car….unless he wanted to see how far she would push the limit.

Geez fokes, yes she was in the wrong and needs to face the consequences of her actions, but it's not like she was racing dangerously down the street, or drunk driving, or high on drugs. I believe we were all 15 at one time - many of us have been 15 and scared - we've all make mistakes when young and been cut some slack. Doesn't mean we grew up any less responsible.

Personally, I'd have her go to court in hopes judge would offer 1st offense leniency. I'm betting she is very sorry for her actions, has already learned a valuable lesson, and ready to face the conquences. Be thankful it's not more serious.

And those who have not had a key get stuck in ignition, why so judgmental….it happens in certain cars, in fact some need drivers wheel lined up to release key.

 

[Tozzie]

I think we needed a little more info to reall understand BUT as far as the key thing my Ford van did that to me ALL the time I could for the life of me not get the key to turn off and then all of a sudden it would losen an turn have no idea the whys shop trie everything it was strange happned 2-4xs a yr for 6 yrs ( as long as I hd van!),

As far as girl driving wrong route? if she eneded up at home with only going a mile differnce how is that breaking the law?? she didnt break law by calling and texting while driving! maybe by driving by aunts she saw no one was home so she did the correct thing and went home?? If my child was in that sit and was scared/worried I would be glad she took/brought car home as safey as possible.. maybe she was worried car may stahl on main rd? maybe she was trying to avoid making a left with a promblem with car! I have many times taken a right and driven out of my way a little to avoid a high traffic left! AND I have alway been told BY a family member who is a police officer to Never assume the cop is alway right and NEVER stop unless it is a well lit and public area!! Lets give the kid a break!!! Untill all facts are known!!!!

If you actually read the first post, it does make a difference where she was and what is allowed with a permit, especially with a 15 year old behind the wheel. The facts are know read the first post.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

My dd is 15 and has a school permit. She turns 16 in August.

She was picked up for being off the route yesterday. She went to get gas and was going to a baseball game at the school. Her ignition key was stuck so she was going to drive to my sisters house (yes.. 2 blocks off the route) to get help. She saw a cop following her and she panicked and started turning (never went to my sisters).

A cop saw her and followed her until she got to our house. She had already pulled into the garage. He motioned for her to come to his car. He then told her to stand at the trunk of the cop car. She received a ticket and a big fine.

I want to know why he waited until she got home to give her the ticket. The cop told me today when I called that he knew she was 15 and had a school permit. So there is no excuse that he had to put the car plate in the computer, etc. She was not speeding, not drinking, not texting. He knew who she was..
No one will give me an answer.. I want to know why he did not stop her the minute she made a wrong turn. He followed her for over a mile.

He asked if the parents were home (we were not).

I just feel this whole process was handled wrong. Yes she did something wrong but I was told they are basing the reasoning of giving a ticket vs. a warning on hearsay. That is not admissable in court.

Didn't read the whole thread, so I apologize if this has been covered a dozen different ways already, but I assume he wanted her to get home. If he'd have stopped her along the illegal path, he wouldn't have been able to let her drive home from that spot. So, how would she (and the car) get home had he done that?

 

[WDWBlue]

Sorry.. This is too complicated of a story/too much involved to put on here and explain correctly.

The cop knew who she was because all the officers know who has a school permit and who is 16 or older.

I asked to see the video... I was told I have to subpeona through my lawyer.

The cop told me he knew who she was. I just want to know why he waited until she got home to ticket her. No one is giving me answers. I called the chief of police and he laughed at me.

As for hearsay.. the police say they are told all the time of kids driving around on school permits. How do these people know where they are going?

I guess I am just rambling....

This is ridiculous really, doesn't even make sense.

There's certainly a number of reasons why he waited so long. The problem with him saying anything about it to you at all is that you wouldn't be satisfied with anything he said.

That's one of the neat things about kids. They come with the most inconceivable reasons for things happening, I think they fall into the category of lame excuses. Really, the key was stuck??

 

[WDWBlue]

Good luck with this OP - I hope everything works out for your DD. If officer knew your DD, IMO he should have indeed stopped her immediately. Why take the chance of her getting in more trouble or perhaps wrecking car….unless he wanted to see how far she would push the limit.

Geez fokes, yes she was in the wrong and needs to face the consequences of her actions, but it's not like she was racing dangerously down the street, or drunk driving, or high on drugs. I believe we were all 15 at one time - many of us have been 15 and scared - we've all make mistakes when young and been cut some slack. Doesn't mean we grew up any less responsible.

Personally, I'd have her go to court in hopes judge would offer 1st offense leniency. I'm betting she is very sorry for her actions, has already learned a valuable lesson, and ready to face the conquences. Be thankful it's not more serious.

And those who have not had a key get stuck in ignition, why so judgmental….it happens in certain cars, in fact some need drivers wheel lined up to release key.

You're right. But I think most posters are responding to the OP's indignation that her child could receive a ticket. She violated the terms of the license so accept the ticket and move on, that's all.

 

[Piglets Mommy]

Didn't read the whole thread, so I apologize if this has been covered a dozen different ways already, but I assume he wanted her to get home. If he'd have stopped her along the illegal path, he wouldn't have been able to let her drive home from that spot. So, how would she (and the car) get home had he done that?

I agree with this. If he knew who she was and what type of license she had, then he knew it would become suspended as soon as he pulled her over, so by following her home, he was actually being very nice by not leaving her stranded en-route.

 

[mdsoccermom]

Folks, it wasn't THAT many years ago that everyone was able to get their license at 15 or at least in this state. The law changed just before oldest DS turned 15 (he is 30 now).

While I think its good that the laws have changed to some degree, I don't think its that horrible that some can still drive at that age.

Yes, it must be your state which is a far cry from "everyone." when I got my license over 25 years ago in NJ, you had to be 16.5 for a permit and 17 for the license.

 

[Art 1]

Maybe he thought that it would be safer if he were to let her get home and issue the ticket at her house and maybe with the parents present.That way no stories could be made up that he was mean to her and so forth. You know how parents can be.

 

[mrsklamc]

I am surprised how many people have not heard of a school permit. Where I grew up you could get one at 14. I checked and it's now 14 years, 2 months.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

OP You need to be more concerned about your DD blatently breaking the rules and getting a ticket before she even has a legal license and less concerned with thinking the police did something wrong.

If your DD was mine she'd be grounded, would have the car taken away and would not be driving for some time. I would also be horribly embarassed at myself for calling the Chief of Police because I wanted to know why an officer took their time to pull over my kid when they saw she broke the law.....

Your daughter is driving on the road with other people. Stop and think and teach her a lesson right now about being a responsible driver and respecting the rules of the road for her sake as well as for the other people driving around her.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I'm surprised you're surprised. If you stop and think, just the fact that the majority of posters never heard of a 'school permit' would indicate that the majority of states don't offer this option for drivers.

I am surprised how many people have not heard of a school permit. Where I grew up you could get one at 14. I checked and it's now 14 years, 2 months

 

[debster812]

I am surprised how many people have not heard of a school permit. Where I grew up you could get one at 14. I checked and it's now 14 years, 2 months.

I had never heard of it either, and according to this link, there are only about 10 states total, out of the 50 states and DC that have special licenses. So not really outside the realm of possibility that many people have not heard of them, because in many places they simply do not exist.

 

[Acklander]

Sorry.. This is too complicated of a story/too much involved to put on here and explain correctly.

I asked to see the video... I was told I have to subpeona through my lawyer.

The cop told me he knew who she was. I just want to know why he waited until she got home to ticket her. No one is giving me answers. I called the chief of police and he laughed at me.
As for hearsay.. the police say they are told all the time of kids driving around on school permits. How do these people know where they are going?
I guess I am just rambling....

You called e chief of police about this???? Seriously, it's time to get a grip on the message you are sending your daughter. By focusing the blame on the officer who waited until she was home to give her a ticket and demanding to see videos, and calling the chief of police - you are not allowing your daughter to take responsibility for her own actions.part of growing up is taking responsibility - not a good thing. The cop didn't entrap her, he didn't rough her up, he didn't plant evidence on he he wasn't doing any of the bad cop things you might hear about - he waited until she got home before pulling her over. How far is it from her aunts house until your house? Was he following her for an hour? Half hour? 15 minutes? 5 minutes? Maybe he was running the plate to see what address the car was attached to, before he could figure out if she was even off her allowed route.

 

[spacemountainmom]

I just wanted to add that it is quite possible for keys to get "stuck". I own two Fords and if you park with the steering wheel in a certain position, the key will not come out of the ignition. I can imagine that a 15 year old inexperienced driver might panic when that happens. I have to turn the vehicle back on and turn the steering wheel to get the key out. I would use this situation as a learning experience. Next time, she should ask for help where she is or call someone to come and assist her.

I agree that the op's daughter did violate the conditions of her permit and deserved the ticket. Hopefully she learns from the experience.

 

[kaytieeldr]

As for hearsay.. the police say they are told all the time of kids driving around on school permits. How do these people know where they are going?

Interesting point. Given that you apparently live in such a small town that (a) everybody knows how old each driver is and where each 'school permit' driver can and can't drive; and (b) the police know which kids fall in this group; and (c) you know the Chief of Police well enough to call him and demand an answer... referring again to (b), someone reporting to the police that a 'school permit' driver was off their allowed route long enough for the police to locate and follow that driver? Not hearsay.

Hearsay would be if your daughter went to trial, and the/an officer were being questioned, on being asked, "Did you observe the defendant driving outside her allowed route?", responding, "I got a call from ____ alerting me she was driving around town, so I waited for her at her home and ticketed her there based on what I was told".

Yes, I know that's not a typical flow of questioning - I'm trying to save space

 

[luvsJack]

Yes, it must be your state which is a far cry from "everyone." when I got my license over 25 years ago in NJ, you had to be 16.5 for a permit and 17 for the license.

LOL, that would be why I said "at least in this state". I got mine too many years ago to say and truthfully, it was 15. I think DS may have been just before turning 15 when they changed the law here. And at that time they had the hardship license. So, "everyone in this state" would be a better choice of words. And we weren't really all going willy nilly making bad choices and getting tickets.


As to the officer waiting until she was home to stop her, I don't know why he would do that and I probably wouldn't be too concerned about it but actually, it is kind of odd that he waited until she was back IN ROUTE and then stopped her. Maybe if she had gone to a different destination, it would have been a different ticket?

 

[Magic Mom]

That bit made no sense to me either. Along with the hearsay bit.

I agree. It can't be heresay because noone told him anything about her. He was using what he saw with his own eyes.

 

[Acklander]

I am surprised how many people have not heard of a school permit. Where I grew up you could get one at 14. I checked and it's now 14 years, 2 months.

I believe these are common in states with lots of farm land. I think the original logic was that many kids were driving trucks on the family farm long before the had a license to do so (private property, so license not needed) so many of those kids were quite comfortable driving at 14 - therefore it was fine for them to drive to school and work. Being that driving rules were set at state level the city kids got to tag along with the farm kid benefits. At least that's how it was explained to me.