Has Disney World lost it's magic?

[sharadoc]

I've read most of the posts but to me, the magic is there, the luster has dimmed by the internet. All these Disney forums on every little thing and direction has taken the thrill of the hunt out of a stay. Everyone knows all the tricks, little mysteries and how to get the most and than some out of a stay. Back before computers, you did a stay and discovered the hidden magic on your own, accepted the little extras CM's gave out, now, everyone knows what everyone got and they demand the same, takes the magic right out. For example, towel animals, given randomly by a mousekeeper that knew how to make them to shed alittle of her talents and own personal magic, spread across the internet boards and everyone and their brother demands them. Hidden mickeys, you discovered them on your own, now you can print out pages with all their locations, some hunt. This goes on and on across all the boards, best viewing, how to get this for free, comped for this and that, how to do it cheap, how to beat the system, guests don't have to discover anything on their own anymore, where's the magic, ask and others will tell you where to find it.

The magic is there and is still alive for us. I don't follow every Disney internet space, subscribe to any tour plan or follow any schedule or guide book on a Disney vacation. We discover most at Disney by just going out and seeing and trying the little things, asking a CM what's new or something to do. Printing out pages of internet forum tricks, schedules, tips and what not is killing the adventure of discovering for yourself. Now, everyone knows, wants, asks and demands and if they don't get it, they come home mad, and complain on these forums and want to file complaints. No, I believe we created our own monster with the Internet and publicizing all we know, want or got, just makes the next person want the same and more. I remember back in the 70's, you booked a room, that's it. No special building, special floor, exotic view, this many steps from the elevator.........Times have changed but for us old timers, most not in a good way but our stays are very simple with no wishes, demands or wants and we do see the magic, even after 42 trips and 30 some years, we just keep it simple.

WELL SAID. I think we're old-timers too - started in 1986. The overabundance of information has changed Disney World for me, too. People's expectations are so OFF of reality that I am sometimes astounded.

I believe it all comes down to respect. As a society, we no longer respect people holding "menial" jobs as honest or hard-working. To most of society now, the CM cleaning up a table at a restaurant, or housekeeping in my hotel room are uneducated dregs of society who don't deserve common respect. HOW WRONG IS THAT?

We believe, and have taught our children, that everyone deserves respect. We show that by saying good morning and hello to those workers who are carrying the trash bags, or toting a vacuum cleaner, or sweeping up. We make eye contact and say good morning. How many people do that - or do the majority treat those folks as faceless nameless worker bees? How do you think that makes them feel every day? They lose motivation at their job because of the jerks they are doing it for.

I'm not trying to canonize us - we're not different from a lot of people I'm sure. But the sense of entitlement at Disney by the guests certainly has to rub off on the cast members. That's why you may get a rude comment back to an innocent question, because hundreds of entitled jerks have asked the same question.

Here's an example of making your own magic. There's a women who works in Main St. Confectionary who is deaf. She is very sweet and has been there for a long time. We ordered a few items from her, having to speak a little slower so she could lip read. I'm sure there are many folks who get very impatient and rude over that. Anyway, we got our purchase and while she was ringing it up, I asked my daugher if she knew how to sign "thank you." She did, so we both signed it when we got our bag. She smiled back and said "you're welcome." Next time we went in to buy our Mickey Head Rice Krispy, she remembered us and gave us a few "extras" in our bag. I think we all felt good after that. She also went out of her way to say hello every time we passed through (which was often - gotta have those Mickey Heads. ) We felt like we had made a friend.

 

[Pats Dragon]

I have to post again. There are things that need improvement. I can say that and honestly assure you that I have never even been close to being a princess. I left the disboard for a while because I was addicted to Dis and had some unbearable disappointments.

I've tried to always be positive but sometimes you have to see things as they have become.

As I post replies in other threads I can think of Disney magic like we picture our best days of childhood and I hope I encourage others instead of being a wet blanket. At the same time I am gratified that others are speaking up so that the bean counters will stop their destruction.

There was a time that a single mom on minimum wage could go to DW for a day or two and it would be worth the sacrifice. You just can't say that anymore. Prices are at gouge level, and for only 2 days you have a good chance of having some rotten experiences. Sorry you folks who are like I used to be but it is true.

 

[catherines_mama]

NO, not at all! I just got back from a very magical trip. YUP we had moments that were not so magical that were at the fault of Disney... but that was a moment among thousands.

I think it depends on how jaded you let yourself be, or how you let this or that affect you.

Previous to our trip there were a LOT of debbie downers on WDW and even that did not affect me but only because I would not let it. WDW and its magic mean something different to each person, I think that makes a big difference.

 

[cattycat]

We were in WDW a few weeks ago, and yes, I felt like Disney lost its luster a little bit.

I agree that it seemed to be the patrons.

There was trash and gum stuck along the queues in Splash Mountain and Thunder Mountain railroad. Some of the litterers were creative, cramming empty soda cups under the edge of walkways, etc. You may argue that the CMs should be more on-top of cleaning up after these pigs, but you would probably need to dedicate one cleaner to each line, all day, just to keep up with it.

On Maelstrom and the Pirates of Carribean rides, both had different families taking flash photos in their boats the whole time. No regard for the rest of us in the boat.

And toilets in MK were disgusting, but who leaves the trash there? Can't people throw toilet paper actually *into* the toilet, or clean up their own pee when it lands on the seat? I just don't get this behavior, leaving a disgusting damage path for an overworked, minimum-waged CM to clean up. It's so disrespectful.

We *did* find the Disney magic when we got to the parks early and everything was still "fresh". We found magic at the parade and in the times we just wandered, enjoying the countries in Epcot or the landscaping at AK.

 

[tpayne]

As someone earlier said, I also think that we need to look at the population that is visiting WDW lately. The children of the baby boomers are the young parents of today, and frequently, I see a complete lack of control on their part when it comes to their children. Some of the parenting skills I've seen put into practice at WDW make my skin crawl. They don't know how to control their kids, so they don't. It's as simple as that. Kids run amok in hotel lobbies, and Lord help you if they run into you. It will be considered your fault. And don't dare try to tell them to watch where they're going, unless you are ready to get a tongue-lashing from an incompetent parent who's ready to blame everyone before looking at their own children as potentially being the problem. I've seen children drop trash in their parents' line of vision and nothing is said. A previous poster mentioned a child being laughed at for breaking the gingerbread house at the GF. Parents will lie, cheat, beg, steal and run over anyone in their way to get their child onto the rides they want and into a picture with Cinderella. A running joke amongst my friends involves overhearing a mom on the monorail last year reassuring her wailing child, "You'll be FIRST into the Magic Kingdom today." Whatever happened to, "We're paying good money, but so are the rest of these people, and we're going to have to wait our turn like everyone else." As an educator (and a young one at that), I can tell you with absolute certainty that when not given parameters, children WILL do what they want and will come to believe that their negative behavior is what is necessary to get what they want in this world.
Now, imagine these children coming to WDW a few years later on their own for Spring Break, or better yet, behind the check-in desk at your resort, or running Splash Mountain.
I'm not saying that Disney is faultless, and surely the tough times have likely forced Disney to make some cutbacks in some places, but before the blame is completely put on the Mouse, think about what the Mouse is forced to deal with in terms of its guests.

::I'll get off of my soapbox now::

I work at a community college and believe me when I say that the students here are pretty much the same as a child when it comes to picking up after themselves and demanding. And after dealing with their parents, I can truthfully say that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. They can do things in the restrooms that no one should have to clean up. The poor custodians...But the parents are to blame. They have not been taught any better.

 

[SydneyFalco]

Okay, I did three years of arguing JUST LIKE THIS on a Star Wars board (of all places), so I'm just gonna post and bolt. I frankly have seen enough of "old guard/new guard", "we're true appreciators/no, you're not", "it's your decision to hate/no, it's patently obvious" arguments to last me a lifetime. People get defensive, they get hurt, they overreact. The truth always lies in the middle anyway.

Count me, ostensibly, into the losing magic camp.

I'm nearing forty but entirely still a kid, I promise. I've been to Disney World coming on eleven times (this last time kinda against my will), four times in the 70s, four times in the eighties, soon to be three times in the 2000s.

When I went back to Disney again recently I was surprised that it still had some magic left. It was really crowded, but I had a fairly exciting, fairly rewarding stay of three days (thence onto the cruise, which I didn't much cotton to, but no matter) and I was pleasantly surprised that some of the old stand-bys and old schoom charm were still around and mostly untouched. I was enchanted enough to go again exactly one year later.

Second stay, last Feb, was WAAAAYYY too crowded and when I got to wander around a bit more, peek into nooks and corners, I could see that too much of the "atmosphere" was WAAAAAYYY too generic and consumerish. Gelded into corporate hegemony.

I dug on the dinners and the shows and enjoyed the rides I managed to do, and I still got goosebumps on the monorail, but I positively shuddered when it came time to dealing with the parks themselves. I got to hate the shops at the end of every ride. Not cause they were shops but because they were the same shop over and over. Tha landscape of the parks had morphed from "magic everywhere" to "islands of magic inside corporate banality". Meals were good, for the most part, but meal times were always a source of stress and doubt. Oddly enough, money was never much of an issue. I was, and always will be, prepared to shell out for a proper Disney experience.

This next, last trip will be my final Disney vacation for the forseeable future. I'm dreading it a little because I simply cannot stomach hitting that wall of people everywhere again. Also because, while I can anticipate the siren-lure of the Haunted Mansion after dark and strolling the World Showcase with love in my heart, I can also anticipate the boorish, decidedly repetitive and charmless everywhere-elses that now litter the place.

Keep in mind, I don't blame anybody for this. I think it's a testament to Disney magic that Disney World managed to strive on with as much dignity as it did through our modern era. And if you'd ask me to rate Disney's decline as opposed to some very major institutions, I'd say its ahead of the curve.

For me, Main Street says it all. As a kid I was in love with Main Street. I am still in love with Main Street. But Main Street doesn't have a theatre anymore. It doesn't have an arcade. It is, in short, not Main Street so much as it is the Ghost Of Main Street. That would be okay (after all, that's still some potent hoojoo we're talking about) except you can't see Main Street past all the people. You need a chainsaw to get into the bakery. The point of Main Street--wandering it, STROLLING it, taking it in--is defeated by the reality of Main Street. And once its lush and luring artifice went deeper than its storefronts but no more. That's good enough--good enough for a visit now and then.

By my way of accounting (and this is simply MY way of accounting, I'll admit), Disney has, by its actions, altered "now and then" from "can't wait to go next year or the year after", to maybe "In another five years, if at all".

 

[tpayne]

And another thing.. I don't think I will ever lose the magic I feel when I arrive in Orlando. I am worse than a 6 year old. I usually cry when I leave and I don't think a grouchy old(or young) underpaid CM is ever going to steal that.
Here's a thought: if everyone would just make one tiny effort to pick up an empty cup or can, then maybe we could all make a difference. Children often learn from our actions. JMHO

 

[KatMark]

And another thing.. I don't think I will ever lose the magic I feel when I arrive in Orlando. I am worse than a 6 year old. I usually cry when I leave and I don't think a grouchy old(or young) underpaid CM is ever going to steal that.
Here's a thought: if everyone would just make one tiny effort to pick up an empty cup or can, then maybe we could all make a difference. Children often learn from our actions. JMHO

Well said!

 

[mecllap]

This thread has me seriously rethinking our plans. . . .
Anyone with *other* suggestions, for place to take my family of 5 where we can still experience "magic" but get value for what it costs to go ... :

We recently returned from a less than magical trip, but that was mostly because of the brutal heat (near record-breaking in June) and crowds (including lots of large families and other groups who would block doors and walkways).

One improvement I noticed from our trips in 2005-06 was that the condition of the restrooms is much improved. We only encountered CMs who were friendly and cheerful.

If you can plan your trip for better weather (not summer), and trying to avoid crowded times (early June used to be rather less crowded -- it may be hard to find a "low" crowd time anymore, with people coming in droves from all over the world), you can still have a wonderful time. A lot is in your attitude and not letting a few little annoyances get to you. We still had quite a bit of fun, altho it's not as easy as it used to be. We went first thing in the morning (which did help), and still were only able to do one "thing" (attraction, character, etc.) per hour and a half (on average) -- sometimes a little less than an hour, sometimes over two hours (and that's with using the fast pass system).

Just do a lot of research, learn from the complaints and advice that is all over the place, and you can certainly have a wonderful family vacation. And, there is indeed, no other place like it, especially for younger kids and us elders (now teens might prefer some other places like US/IOA, Busch Gardens, etc.).

 

[eliza61]

Not sure if it's lost the magic but it's definitely on a downward slide.

I'm a life long lover and visitor. My first visit was when it first opened, I was only a kid but I've been going since 1990 as an adult and it's definitely noticeable to me. I won't get into details because I find on these boards if you don't say every thing is absolutely "magical" you tend to get labeled as a complainer.

This August will be my last visit for a few years. For me unfortunately Disney has just reached the point where for I can no longer justify the large amounts of dollars for mediocre product. We'll be there for 10 days and only 3 adrs simply because I refuse to pay over 100 bucks for mediocre food. I have my dvc or no way would I pay rack rates for the substandard cm service at a deluxe and the old argument "you pay for location is starting to ring hollow"

We'll return in 2012 hopefully the economy and disney will have rebounded.

 

[eliza61]

Some of Disney's harshest critics are also its biggest fans. If we don't tell Disney when they make bad consumer choices, and aren't vocal in our support of when they do the right thing, then it lessens the magic, imo. Just goes full circle back to my original assertion that guests are a large part of what makes WDW special (and sometimes not special).

I don't think anyone on here is suggesting, just go to 6 flags, it's like Disney only smaller, because it's soooooo not. My aim in participating in these threads, is to prevent Disney from taking on any resemblance to Six Flags, btw...

OMG you are sooo inside my head. I constantly say this when I have to defend myself. I absolutely love & adore Disney, it makes me when I see some of the things I see as a decline in service. I want Disney to return to the outstanding levels that made it the bar to which every other family vacation spot aspired to.

 

[DisneyBride'03]

Ok....I have read most of the posts here....and a few other threads that coincide with this thread's subject matter.

Since everyone is sharing their thoughts/feelings...here are mine....

I believe the "magic" has to begin within the individual guest...I don't believe you can arrive at WDW and say...ok let the magic begin......where is my free upgrade, where is my towel animal, where is the great weather, where are the small crowds....etc

Nothing in life is perfect..so why should things in WDW always be perfect?

I think WDW allows one to open their heart....to the magic that can be felt...

I think some arrive with expectations that are unrealistic....what is real.....amusement parks to enjoy, resort hotels to sleep/shower and swim.....restaurants to dine in.....sharing this with family and frieds...MAGIC

 

[aleckendyl]

IMHO, not in the least bit.
I consider WDW and DLR to have MORE magic than ever.
Magic is in the heart and mind of the guest.
One can CHOOSE to have a magical time with family OR one can whine and complain...see fault.
I choose to enjoy life. WDW is a big part of that.
The magic keeps gettin better!

 

[aleckendyl]

Ok....I have read most of the posts here....and a few other threads that coincide with this thread's subject matter.

Since everyone is sharing their thoughts/feelings...here are mine....

I believe the "magic" has to begin within the individual guest...I don't believe you can arrive at WDW and say...ok let the magic begin......where is my free upgrade, where is my towel animal, where is the great weather, where are the small crowds....etc

Nothing in life is perfect..so why should things in WDW always be perfect?

I think WDW allows one to open their heart....to the magic that can be felt...

I think some arrive with expectations that are unrealistic....what is real.....amusement parks to enjoy, resort hotels to sleep/shower and swim.....restaurants to dine in.....sharing this with family and frieds...MAGIC

Agreed.

 

[kimbo0569]

Ok....I have read most of the posts here....and a few other threads that coincide with this thread's subject matter.

Since everyone is sharing their thoughts/feelings...here are mine....

I believe the "magic" has to begin within the individual guest...I don't believe you can arrive at WDW and say...ok let the magic begin......where is my free upgrade, where is my towel animal, where is the great weather, where are the small crowds....etc

Nothing in life is perfect..so why should things in WDW always be perfect?

I think WDW allows one to open their heart....to the magic that can be felt...

I think some arrive with expectations that are unrealistic....what is real.....amusement parks to enjoy, resort hotels to sleep/shower and swim.....restaurants to dine in.....sharing this with family and frieds...MAGIC

Well said! My family and I were just in WDW Sept 08 and before that, our last visit was back in July 04. When I got back to "the World" in 08, I was totally looking forward to it, as were my girls, since my youngest had never been and my oldest was 2 1/2 during our last visit. The "magic" that alot of people are looking for is what you bring with you. We went, not expecting anything but some time together as a family having a good time. And that we did! We made our own magic. Almost a year later, my girls are still talking about what a great time we had! And we cannot wait until our next visit is. I've been to Disney several times since I was 12 and look forward to it every single time. We've created wonderful memories as I was a kid and even more with my own.

 

[ppony]

The only magic lost for me is the direct result of the decline in the clientele. Rude, selfish behavior (such as line-jumping/letting Daddy stand in line while Mom and the kids enjoy another ride), lack of respect for others, inappropriate dress and language, screaming in the hallways late at night, etc.

Twelve hour vacation days in sweltering heat spent standing in long lines can make people do things they normally wouldn't (hopefully).

Chalk-up part of that to finally recognizing I am getting older - hit the big 51 this year. DW and I have the luxury of avoiding busy seasons, which alleviates 75% of the problems.

Yeah, maybe the landscaping isn't as stellar as it used to be, sometimes the restrooms aren't as claen, but for the most part, WDW still is everything I am looking for. Compared to the alternatives, nothing even comes close for me.

I couldn't agree more! ESPECIALLY w/ your first paragraph about the clientele!
We have sucha difficult time going anywhere else when we take a vacation because even w/ some issues (and what place doesn't have them), there still is no palce my home WDW that is!

 

[chrisw127]

To me, it's interesting that despite cutbacks and layoffs, most CMs really have great attitudes. I'll admit that when I was there in May the bathrooms in the Magic Kingdom were dirty; I'd never seen them like that before. But I don't think it was the CMs who were clearly hard-working that were to blame but the corporate bozos who made some bad staffing decisions. Hopefully that will change.

It's funny, but today I went to Whole Foods and as usual, the cashiers there were rude and had attitudes and I thought "You know, these surly buggars wouldn't cut it at Disney." I guess that says something.

I really like this article by Chicago Sun Times columnist Neil Steinberg. By his own admission he is not a Disney fan, but I think he sums up what Disney does best really well:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/steinberg/1463517,CST-NWS-stein06.article

 

[tpayne]

When all is said and done...sometimes... you have to make your own magic.

 

[jrt1176]

I havent read the whole thread, but I did see the post below...

I believe Disney hires a lot of college students as CM's. You take classes and work, they take room and board out of your paycheck, etc. Essentially, the student gets a resume builder and Disney gets cheap labor from an educated college student.

My roommate and I were going to do this in college, but once we saw that you dont get much cash after room and board so that we couldnt have fun on the days off or nights, we decided against it.

A girl I dated worked at Disney, she didnt have a lot of good words to say about how she was treated. She got ill on a shift and they just had her go in the back! No one looked after her! Eventually a lifeguard who was off duty took her to the hospital.

I, personally, dont think the magic is gone. I just wanted to comment on that tangent subject. I do think the economy has probably had something to do with the service. I also dont like how the food has become standard at most CS locations, from what I have read. I liked it when they all had their own niche, at least to extent did.

"Monorail and Watercraft Hosts and Hostesses receive a starting rate of $7.35/hour to $8.25/hour."

That's pretty weak. There had better be some rockin' benefits to go with that salary, or some amazing opportunities for advancement. I know that if I were sweating my hindquarters off on a monorail platform all day, I would be rather disappointed when my paycheck arrived. I certainly wouldn't be feeling "magical" about it.

Frankly, it makes those cm's who do keep smiling and preserving the magic worthy of praise and commendation.

 

[pioneer89]

No, they have not lost the magic. I still feel the magic when I go, but over the past few years of visits, I've noticed a pronounced downward slide.

Most of the issues listed ITT can be traced all the way up the ladder to the upper management of Disney. The vision seems to have shifted from "Profit by giving the customer a magical time." into "Profit."

In the past, I spent a lot of money to get a magical vacation at WDW, and WDW spent a lot of effort to see I got just that. I had a good time, and they made a ton of money by trying their best to give me a good time.

Now, I spend a lot of money to get a magical vacation at WDW and WDW spends a lot of effort to give me a little as they possibly can, with no clear idea of where I'll finally draw my line. No one wants to feel like they are a cash cow.

Anyhoo, I've been drilled to never complain without offering a solution, so here goes:

Now, with the economy as it is should be the time for Disney with it's sound books and deep pockets to push themselves to a higher level. CM who don't fear random layoffs or cut hours will perform better for a company that cares. Construction material and labor will never be lower, where is the fifth park, or the expansons to AK or MK? If the parks and resorts are truely overstaffed, keep people working, that gives the CMs more time to work that magic.

A shareholder has to wonder what Disney management is doing. Cutbacks and penny pinching in the hospitality industry has never, ever pushed a company ahead. The poor quality now will be remembered for decades, and one bad trip cancels out years of magic.