Flight of Passage + People of Size = Disappointing

[TXAKDisneyFan]

Are you guys sure that people are actually making comments about you (or others) trying out the seat? Perhaps they were laughing at something else, and because you are already self conscious, you just assumed it was you? I've done that before.

I just have never seen strangers (adults) just outright making fun of other strangers, at a family place no less, unless they were really drunk. I live in a big city, take public transportation twice a day, see people of all shapes and sizes, have people I care about who are all shapes and sizes. Everywhere we go (like parks, zoos, shopping, etc.) is crowded. I have seen fights or skirmishes between people (not often), but not just people making fun of random people out loud for them to hear.
Now I've heard men make vulgar comments about me (or others, even to my mom ) in front of strangers, so I understand that it's embarrassing, but somehow they thought they were being complimentary. But this sounds like people being cruel for sport. Were they kids/teenagers who don't know better?

I can only assume the people who are doing this aren't used to seeing all types of people?

I'm average size (within "healthy" BMI). Therefore, I've never had anyone make any rude comments about me being overweight. I do have larger family members though, and I have heard complete strangers make horrific comments about/to them. More people than you'd think will make inappropriate comments to complete strangers. (I'm somewhat racially ambiguous, and when I lived in Boston I *regularly* (as in every day or every other day) complete strangers would come up to me and ask "what are you?")

If I were overweight, I wouldn't want anyone to see me try out a test seat, and I'd be mortified if a CM asked me to try one out. I think there should be a way to put the test seats in discrete locations but where people can still find them easily.

 

[Lothlórien]

Maybe falsely assuming, but if they shut down the ride to make this adjustment/re-design, i would think it would cause quite the uproar.

Fo Shizzle!!!!

________________________________________________________________________________________________


When an engineer creates rides, there are several key things they focus on and unfortunate for some, it is not weight/size. Putting functionality aside, because that is a given, safety is a huge primary concern. Right at the top.
Additionally, fitting as many people into an attraction as possible to keep the lines moving is another.

If you ever have an oppty to speak to a Disney Imagineer (such as Dining with an Imagineer, a specific tour in Burbank or if you happen to know somebody) and mention the size limitations for Seven Dwarfs Mine Coaster, they will tell you that they knew "larger guests" would have a more difficult time, but in order to have the ride function as it does and remain safe, that had to be the design.

Disney is not trying to slight anybody. It is unfortunate for those who are unable to ride, however.

 

[Farro]

See my post a few pages back here about my experiences rising Living with the Land a few years ago (as just one example!) I'm really not understanding people on this thread telling fat people to doubt our own experiences.... trust us. If you don't live in our type of body, don't try to tell people who do what our experiences really are.

Please.

I wasn't trying to do that and I won't be able to explain what I meant at this point, but don't worry, I won't try to speak on the subject again.

 

[TavieP]

I wasn't trying to do that and I won't be able to explain what I meant at this point, but don't worry, I won't try to speak on the subject again.

Sorry if I misunderstood you!

 

[Punkrockbebop]

Fo Shizzle!!!!

________________________________________________________________________________________________


When an engineer creates rides, there are several key things they focus on and unfortunate for some, it is not weight/size. Putting functionality aside, because that is a given, safety is a huge primary concern. Right at the top.
Additionally, fitting as many people into an attraction as possible to keep the lines moving is another.

If you ever have an oppty to speak to a Disney Imagineer (such as Dining with an Imagineer, a specific tour in Burbank or if you happen to know somebody) and mention the size limitations for Seven Dwarfs Mine Coaster, they will tell you that they knew "larger guests" would have a more difficult time, but in order to have the ride function as it does and remain safe, that had to be the design.

Disney is not trying to slight anybody. It is unfortunate for those who are unable to ride, however.

I'm not buying it. They could have one or two seats per row that are calibrated the same, but for larger sizes.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I've been on the other end - ridiculed for being underweight. 5'3' and 95 lbs. Called bone-rack, had the overweight neighbor call out over the property line about how skinny my legs were, etc. My wedding pictures were a bit ruined - my cousin squeezed my shoulders in my off the shoulder wedding dress while she said "you're so skinny!" and left red finger marks on me. You can see them in the close-ups. So I get the mean-spirit.

That said, I don't know anyone in the 300-350 range for weight. I know they exist, but I don't agree that there are 'so many people' in that range. Remember that WDW has to appeal to families - and families sometimes have small kids, and they need to be able to ride a lot of the attractions. The 44" height requirement is already limiting, if they made the seats bigger, they'd have to raise the height requirement as well, to make sure the seats were safe. If they had to make room for larger legs, how would smaller legs fit safely?

2 reasons this is an issue:

Disney has the reputation for smart ride design. Other places, not so much. Universal, for instance, does two types of seats for a coaster and forbidden journey because they realized the restraint on the original ones doesn't even fit the average American adult comfortably. Other coasters are designed to fit a wider range of bodies; a coaster at my "home" theme park has restraints that ratchet according to resistance.

There is no consistency. It's completely arbitrary. Even at Disney, you can't entirely argue safety. I have absolutely no problem on expedition Everest; it's super uncomfortable to ride mine train. Mine train is a kiddy ride. There is absolutely no reason that should be uncomfortable for anyone.

Second reason: people are specifically upset about this because "Pooh guests" are a demographic specific to Disney. These people probably can't ride a lot of rides at a local theme park. They might feel left out there. They go to Disney because it is a happy place for them. They feel included. Same thing with handicapped guests, multiple generational families, pregnant women. Disney has this inclusive reputation and they do intentionally cater to a wide variety of people, which I would argue Universal and Six Flags do not. So while I definitely agree that not everyone will be able to ride every ride, I also agree with the folks who are pointing out that the ride designer probably could have made it a bit more friendly to more people.

 

[Bete]

Will anyone share the maximum inches of calve size that will work on this ride? Take a tape measure and share with us.
Original poster: What size calves in inches does your friend have who was rejected the second time around? This could help so many people if you will share.

For other larger people, if you were rejected what size calve do you have?
For those who were able to ride who are larger what size are your calves?

Let's help each other, here.

You can weigh 350 pounds and have skinny legs. Others can weigh 250 pounds, but have big calves.

 

[JerseyJanice]

But the bottom line is that most theme park rides are designed to fit the majority (or the largest number) of guests.

 

[JerseyJanice]

Will anyone share the maximum inches of calve size that will work on this ride? Take a tape measure and share with us.
Original poster: What size calves in inches does your friend have who was rejected the second time around? This could help so many people if you will share.

For other larger people, if you were rejected what size calve do you have?
For those who were able to ride who are larger what size are your calves?

Let's help each other, here.

You can weigh 350 pounds and have skinny legs. Others can weigh 250 pounds, but have big calves.

It seems like it's not just calf circumference, but where the leg restraints hit a guest's calves.

 

[DisneyOma]

Re: the comment that said, "I don't know anyone in the 300-350 range for weight. I know they exist, but I don't agree that there are 'so many people' in that range."

As a nurse in a clinic, who weighs people all day, every day, I assure you that there are "so many people" in that range. More than you might think. Not always easy to estimate weight just by looking at someone - people carry weight so differently.

Are you in a specialty clinic? Also, people carrying an extreme amount of extra weight tend to have more health issues than those of healthy weight, so more of them would be coming in for appointments and getting weighed. I know what 250 lbs looks like on a 5'2" woman. She's the largest woman I know of that height. I feel like I can extrapolate from there.

Was referring to RNRoller coaster at DHS.

RnR has a 48" height requirement - one of the (if not the very) highest height requirements at WDW. So not sure how that proves your point?

 

[johnnydakota]

I'm about 50/50 on whether I'll be able to ride or not. I'm 6'4" and 293lbs. My calves are big which after reading reports are my biggest worry right now. I also have a big chest which is what I hate the most since the last few years I haven't been able to ride all the roller coasters I'd like. I rode Rock n Roller coaster a few years ago and the chest restraint was very uncomfortable for me but I was able to ride at least. I'd love to be able to ride it again but I don't think I'll be able to for my August trip as lately I've been the heaviest I've ever been.

Regarding the test seats being out in the open, the only other option would be to have them tucked away with a hanging sign indicating that that's where it is. The way I feel about it now is yeah, it's embarrassing to have to feel like you need to try it but it's embarrassing for less than 20 seconds in front of a bunch of strangers that I'll never see again.

I've been to a theme park where I tried the tester seat and it gave me the green light, yet on the actual ride they said I didn't fit. I commented that the seat in front said I was good and they said "that seat is different". So my significant other at the time insisted we go to public relations and complain. I didn't want to but she did anyway. I later on received a call from someone apologizing and offering me free tickets to come back. I politely declined and said I wasn't seeking compensation and the only thing I would request is that they re-calibrate their tester seats to be accurate as I had waited over an hour in line for that ride only to have #1 wasted my time and #2 be embarrassed. For this reason, I love that Disney actually has cast members to help you with the seat because eventually they will be the ones to give you suggestions on how to make it work for you after having assisted so many other people.

 

[Lost Yeti]

Has someone posted figures somewhere regarding percentage of riders turned away? I'm just curious as to where the strong notion of seat design allowing a subpar percentage of guests to ride is coming from. I have seen some anecdotal reports, but nothing more.

I feel this is getting overblown. As I've mentioned earlier in the thread, the vehicle was designed to accommodate an extremely high percentage of guests and, so far, that goal percentage has been exceeded. That percentage is very high.

Anecdotally, in the number of times I've ridden (double digits), the number of people I've seen turned away is precisely zero.

Yes, some people will not be able to ride due to size, anatomical variation, etc., but that is the case with the vast majority of rides across all theme parks - especially those of the "thrill" variety.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Are you in a specialty clinic? Also, people carrying an extreme amount of extra weight tend to have more health issues than those of healthy weight, so more of them would be coming in for appointments and getting weighed. I know what 250 lbs looks like on a 5'2" woman. She's the largest woman I know of that height. I feel like I can extrapolate from there.



RnR has a 48" height requirement - one of the (if not the very) highest height requirements at WDW. So not sure how that proves your point?

Uh, no. I don't think you can blame weight for frequent visits to the doctor or assume she's in a "specialty clinic". Just spend time in a mall or grocery store or something. Americans tend to be on the obese side. I've noticed it does tend to be a little regional, though. More obese people in car heavy areas. More obese people in "food deserts", like poor rural communities.

I've been 200-230 since high school. My weight has shifted. If I'm in good shape, I actually weight more because my legs get so muscle-y.

Even at my heaviest, I can ride stuff that friends who weigh less can't, though, because I have a really small chest. The most common reason to get turned away is either your waist or chest. Neither are my problem. It is on the other hand, a real pita to find dresses that fit. It's also a pita to find blouses because for some reason women's shirts (and coats) are cut really narrow across the shoulders and mine are broad. I could lose 100 lbs and that would still be an issue, because it's not like my shoulder width is gonna shrink or that my breasts would stay the same while I lose weight everywhere else.

Actually the only thing I like about being heavier is that it does give me cleavage. I mean, I know that's kind of horrible, but it's a lot harder to dress shop when I'm muscle-y than when I'm "curvy" if that makes any sense.

 

[Robo]

When an engineer creates rides, there are several key things they focus on and unfortunate for some, it is not weight/size. Putting functionality aside, because that is a given, safety is a huge primary concern. Right at the top.
Additionally, fitting as many people into an attraction as possible to keep the lines moving is another.

If you ever have an oppty to speak to a Disney Imagineer (such as Dining with an Imagineer, a specific tour in Burbank or if you happen to know somebody) and mention the size limitations for Seven Dwarfs Mine Coaster, they will tell you that they knew "larger guests" would have a more difficult time, but in order to have the ride function as it does and remain safe, that had to be the design.

What I DO believe is that they discovered at some point that the restraints were going to be
problematic to many guests, but at that point, BUDGET became the overriding factor and we got what we got.

 

[tinkerbellsmom05]

So...if I could fit in the old Sum of All Thrills with the thing coming down in front of you do you think Flight of Passage will be ok?

 

[Marshel]

2 reasons this is an issue:

Disney has the reputation for smart ride design. Other places, not so much. Universal, for instance, does two types of seats for a coaster and forbidden journey because they realized the restraint on the original ones doesn't even fit the average American adult comfortably. Other coasters are designed to fit a wider range of bodies; a coaster at my "home" theme park has restraints that ratchet according to resistance.

There is no consistency. It's completely arbitrary. Even at Disney, you can't entirely argue safety. I have absolutely no problem on expedition Everest; it's super uncomfortable to ride mine train. Mine train is a kiddy ride. There is absolutely no reason that should be uncomfortable for anyone.

Second reason: people are specifically upset about this because "Pooh guests" are a demographic specific to Disney. These people probably can't ride a lot of rides at a local theme park. They might feel left out there. They go to Disney because it is a happy place for them. They feel included. Same thing with handicapped guests, multiple generational families, pregnant women. Disney has this inclusive reputation and they do intentionally cater to a wide variety of people, which I would argue Universal and Six Flags do not. So while I definitely agree that not everyone will be able to ride every ride, I also agree with the folks who are pointing out that the ride designer probably could have made it a bit more friendly to more people.

Could not have worded it better, surely Disney has to be aware that guests who can fit on other 'thrill' rides like Everest and RNR might be a little upset if they can't fit on this ride and might expect them to spend a little extra to add a few more accommodating seats, especially given their past reputation of trying to accommodate larger riders.

 

[MickeyWaffles]

Are you guys sure that people are actually making comments about you (or others) trying out the seat? Perhaps they were laughing at something else, and because you are already self conscious, you just assumed it was you? I've done that before.

I just have never seen strangers (adults) just outright making fun of other strangers, at a family place no less, unless they were really drunk. I live in a big city, take public transportation twice a day, see people of all shapes and sizes, have people I care about who are all shapes and sizes. Everywhere we go (like parks, zoos, shopping, etc.) is crowded. I have seen fights or skirmishes between people (not often), but not just people making fun of random people out loud for them to hear.
Now I've heard men make vulgar comments about me (or others, even to my mom ) in front of strangers, so I understand that it's embarrassing, but somehow they thought they were being complimentary. But this sounds like people being cruel for sport. Were they kids/teenagers who don't know better?

I can only assume the people who are doing this aren't used to seeing all types of people?

I am not Pooh sized but have personally witnessed what my larger friends have gone through on many occasions. In a big city. It really is unbelievable until you witness it yourself.

Sometimes the mean kids at school grow out of their meanness. Sometimes they just become mean adults.

 

[Kristine316]

I am not Pooh sized but have personally witnessed what my larger friends have gone through on many occasions. In a big city. It really is unbelievable until you witness it yourself.

Sometimes the mean kids at school grow out of their meanness. Sometimes they just become mean adults.

Isn't that the truth! I had a bad experience at WDW several years ago and honestly, I have never forgotten it. It really, really bothered me.

I have Lymphedema in my left leg. It was due to an injury and surgery I had done. I take very good care of it and it is not very noticeable but, it is imperative that I do what I need to do to keep it under control. Anyway.. I have to wear compression stockings and comfortable shoes.. its not flattering at all but, it is very necessary for me. I was in a gift shop in HS just minding my own business looking at things when I hear laughing and snickering. I look up to see three women.. adult women, I think in their 30's.. that is what I would guess. They were actually making fun of my tennis shoes with those "ugly socks". I distinctly remember one of them saying they would never be caught dead dressed like that. It really hurt my feelings. Oh I know they were jerks and I should have just let it go and forgotten about it but, that's easier said than done.
The thing is I was really self conscious about wearing the hose on that trip.. I mean it was bothering me a lot and I felt really uncomfortable. Just when I was sort of getting comfortable with it, and not thinking about it, I meet up with three women who thought making fun of me was hilarious.

Ever since then I try to wear clothes that cover my legs so no one can see my hose. Its difficult at WDW, because it is so hot and humid but, I try to make it work.

I totally agree that people can be cruel. Mean kids DO some times just grow up to be mean adults.

 

[maxiesmom]

Could not have worded it better, surely Disney has to be aware that guests who can fit on other 'thrill' rides like Everest and RNR might be a little upset if they can't fit on this ride and might expect them to spend a little extra to add a few more accommodating seats, especially given their past reputation of trying to accommodate larger riders.

The restraint system is totally different. And as much as we can agree it stinks that some people of size cannot ride Flight of Passage, none of us can say for sure why the restraint system is as it is. None of us are engineers that built the ride. I could complain that with my bad knees there is no way I can ride and Disney should have designed it differently. You can't always make rides that suit every person. I look at that ride system, say nope won't work for me, and move on. It stinks but it is what it is. They won't redesign it now.

 

[Cait]

Ever since then I try to wear clothes that cover my legs so no one can see my hose. Its difficult at WDW, because it is so hot and humid but, I try to make it work.

I'm so sorry you have to deal with that. My mom has lymphedema in both legs, and she too suffers with long pants and her stockings in public, even when too hot, because of how cruel people can be.