Doctor Dies From Allergic Reaction After Raglan Road Meal at Disney Springs

[Betty Rohrer]

I don’t understand. Does Disney own RR? Every time I’ve been with someone who had any kind of food sensitivity and we mentioned it in a Disney restaurant, the chef himself would come out to speak to us. If Disney isn’t running the restaurant, why are they included in the suit?

RR is on a Disney property but not owned by Disney. not all nonDisney owned restaurants follow all Disney standards

 

[Disturbia]

Many of them do. You can book them through MDE and input your allergens. You can also pay using your magic band to charge to your room. Not to mention the advertising of them on the TV channels in your Disney room. We don’t pay as much attention to the ads since they got rid of Stacy (I think that was her name) and the must do Disney lists. It’s reasonable to think there is some sort of affiliation even if they are not owned by Disney based on all of those things.

We loved playing the must do ads and it set the mood for the entire vacation (livin it up love that feelin..)

 

[Disturbia]

I have to say, I have learned a lot from this thread. Thank you to all of you who have spoken up about your experiences and best wishes to all who have to deal with this.

You feel helpless when the reactions do happen. The AuviQ only gives you 8-9 mins to get to a hospital in an anaphylaxis situation and a person gasping for air and collapsing wouldn’t be something you can just forget. Fortunately for us Benadryl has been working but you’re still not in the clear and need to closely monitor that they’re still breathing for a few hours.

The girl who died on the plane after eating Pret a Manger sandwich, her dad used all the Epipens they had or could gather (3?) and the airline had another dose but the airline policy wouldn’t allow the air hostess to mix the medication or assist on descent (I believe a Dr onboard did assist?). They were just mins from landing on the ground and the father called the mother so she could say goodbye one last time. So pressuring for change and awareness is absolutely paramount vs just being complacent.

The kid that threw the cheese stick at a kid with allergies will probably never get over the the trauma of watching the reaction and the fact that he caused the death of his classmate.

Food allergies are no joke.

 

[crazy4wdw]

Can we take a few deep breathes here? Let's cease with the personal attacks and return to the discussion at hand.

 

[Disturbia]

Having an allergy doesn’t make you an allergist or pathologist. In the end none of us know 90% of the facts of this case.
But because it’s the internet it becomes a war between those who feel their allergies aren’t taken serious enough and those who think people need to take more responsibility for their actions.
The law is complex and the technicalities in the case are usually very important. However these are likely too boring to discuss by lay people on forums. So instead everyone gets into an emotional rant.
So for everybody reading:
Yes your allergies should be taken seriously and you deserve the right to eat safely at restaurants.

Yes people are responsible for their actions and should always follow best practices when they have life threatening allergies.

This lawsuit will not change any of the above.

This is a WDW thread not a legal thread so those of us who have to deal with allergies at WDW would obviously want to comment because this situation is relevant to us and the safety of our kids at WDW.

 

[Disturbia]

It's a perfectly reasonable statement, and I took the time to go pull the references to show you why. "In general, the more prolonged the onset of anaphylactic symptoms, the less severe the overall reaction" (Sampson, 2000, p.928). Usually fatal anaphylaxis hits you fast, and it hits you hard. Let's use your son as our example. The time from his ingestion to symptoms was greater than one hour and you were able to resolve the situation on your own. Now let's look at children who had the opposite outcome with the same allergen. Nachshon & Katz (2012) reviewed the case studies of fatal anaphylaxis in children with milk allergy. All four children were in distress WITHIN MINUTES of the first bite.

fatal anaphylaxis only occurs approximately 125-150 times a year in the United States
approximately 26% of those are due to tree nut allergy.
the generally accepted window for tree nut anaphylaxis is 5-30 minutes.

because I can find no documented case of fatal tree nut anaphylaxis in the United Stated that was delayed >45 minutes after ingestion of the allergen, AND no warning symptoms were exhibited (runny nose, itchy mouth, tingling mouth, coughing), I believe it is more likely (the theoretical probability is greater) that she came in contact with the allergen much closer in time to when she collapsed in planet Hollywood.


References:
Baseggio Conrado A, Ierodiakonou D, Gowland M H, Boyle R J, Turner P J. Food anaphylaxis in the United Kingdom: analysis of national data, 1998-2018 BMJ 2021.

Hugh A Sampson, Food anaphylaxis, British Medical Bulletin, Volume 56, Issue 4, 2000, Pages 925–935.

Liat Nachshon, M. D., & Yitzhak Katz, M. D. (2012). Lessons from cases of mortality due to food allergy in Israel: cow’s milk protein should be considered a potentially fatal allergen. Age (yrs), 6(10), 16.

When we started using gelatin our DD’s reaction to nuts was delayed and she didn’t start throwing up until 45 mins from exposure. Gelatin coats the lining of the stomach but it also reduces serotonin (or tryptophan or something) so we stopped it.

 

[mkatsy]

When we started using gelatin our DD’s reaction to nuts was delayed and she didn’t start throwing up until 45 mins from exposure. Gelatin coats the lining of the stomach but it also reduces serotonin (or tryptophan or something) so we stopped it.

I don’t know how you do it. I’m thankful every day that somehow my kids (who are adults now) escaped this nightmare. My husband and I both have food allergies and our kids got away with just asthma & eczema. Having infants with asthma was no picknick, but I can’t imagine managing a nut allergy in someone that puts everything in their mouth.

 

[Anthony1971]

I don’t understand. Does Disney own RR? Every time I’ve been with someone who had any kind of food sensitivity and we mentioned it in a Disney restaurant, the chef himself would come out to speak to us. If Disney isn’t running the restaurant, why are they included in the suit?

Simple answer every party involved is sued and each party will need to prove exclusion. Law is not logic and therefore not for me but I know and have worked with some great lawyers from criminal to general. I learned a lot that makes no sense to me.
My niece has a tree nut allergy does carry an epipen but we never had issues at Disney. I do not think it is as bad as some others however.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

The article does not specify how much time had elapsed between the time they left RR and she entered PH and collapsed. It could have been an hour or so. He was not aware she was missing. It states the MIL tried to call her multiple times at DS. When she got back they called again and this time someone picked up and told them to go to the hospital. It does not sound like they were just hanging out in the hotel as you originally wrote. They were from NYC so I am sure he did not expect that she would have difficulty navigating a shopping area and taking a resort bus back.

Tampabay.com says,"Within an hour of dining at a Disney Springs restaurant, a woman had a fatal allergic reaction from the food she ate and collapsed while shopping at one of the nearby stores in Florida, according to a new lawsuit."

 

[mickeyluv'r]

It's a perfectly reasonable statement, and I took the time to go pull the references to show you why. "In general, the more prolonged the onset of anaphylactic symptoms, the less severe the overall reaction" (Sampson, 2000, p.928). Usually fatal anaphylaxis hits you fast, and it hits you hard.


References:
Baseggio Conrado A, Ierodiakonou D, Gowland M H, Boyle R J, Turner P J. Food anaphylaxis in the United Kingdom: analysis of national data, 1998-2018 BMJ 2021.

Hugh A Sampson, Food anaphylaxis, British Medical Bulletin, Volume 56, Issue 4, 2000, Pages 925–935.

Liat Nachshon, M. D., & Yitzhak Katz, M. D. (2012). Lessons from cases of mortality due to food allergy in Israel: cow’s milk protein should be considered a potentially fatal allergen. Age (yrs), 6(10), 16.

The timing of her reaction does not appear to be much of an outlier, though allergy studies use vague language like 'usually' because outliers and variations do occur. The studies are trying to find trends, but the ones you cite, and others below all use much of the same type of language.

This source gives quite a bit of helpful information: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK538526/
Including, "Symptoms can occur within seconds of ingestion, with peak occurrence by 30 minutes but can delay up to 2 hours."

Many food allergy studies are conducted with children, but adult reactions can manifest as cardiac events that don't tend to happen in children. -in the Complications section of the above source, so there are even age-related variations in reactions that are not well understood.

Here's another unknown, "There are unexplained regional variations, with United Kingdom and Australia reporting almost double the rate of fatal, food-related anaphylaxis to that in the United States." from this report https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5589409/

At this point, there are many details about this tragedy that we do not know, and some we probably will never know. Perhaps some good can come of this tragedy, like more research, more people making an effort to learn about allergies, and a little more kindness towards those who live with allergies.

 

[sparrow10_]

Should closure this place

 

[mkatsy]

The timing of her reaction does not appear to be much of an outlier, though allergy studies use vague language like 'usually' because outliers and variations do occur. The studies are trying to find trends, but the ones you cite, and others below all use much of the same type of language.

This source gives quite a bit of helpful information: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK538526/
Including, "Symptoms can occur within seconds of ingestion, with peak occurrence by 30 minutes but can delay up to 2 hours."

Many food allergy studies are conducted with children, but adult reactions can manifest as cardiac events that don't tend to happen in children. -in the Complications section of the above source, so there are even age-related variations in reactions that are not well understood.

Here's another unknown, "There are unexplained regional variations, with United Kingdom and Australia reporting almost double the rate of fatal, food-related anaphylaxis to that in the United States." from this report https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5589409/

At this point, there are many details about this tragedy that we do not know, and some we probably will never know. Perhaps some good can come of this tragedy, like more research, more people making an effort to learn about allergies, and a little more kindness towards those who live with allergies.

Thank you for the time that you put into this post. I appreciate that you pulled the sources, however it's the wrong allergen. All of the information that you have here is for Peanuts. She was allergic to tree nuts. It is my understanding that Peanuts are notorious for delayed reactions, but I have no personal experience with peanut allergy. They are my safe food. I always have a peanut butter sandwich and peanut butter crackers in my purse in case I get delayed and don't have access to an allergy (tree nut) safe meal. The second source is addressing fatal anaphylaxis in general. It includes drugs, bugs, latex, etc. I've never even met anyone that had any of those things. These people have some amazing resources https://www.foodallergyawareness.org/food-allergy-and-anaphylaxis/newly-diagnosed/

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Thank you for the time that you put into this post. I appreciate that you pulled the sources, however it's the wrong allergen. All of the information that you have here is for Peanuts. She was allergic to tree nuts. It is my understanding that Peanuts are notorious for delayed reactions, but I have no personal experience with peanut allergy. They are my safe food. I always have a peanut butter sandwich and peanut butter crackers in my purse in case I get delayed and don't have access to an allergy (tree nut) safe meal. The second source is addressing fatal anaphylaxis in general. It includes drugs, bugs, latex, etc. I've never even met anyone that had any of those things. These people have some amazing resources https://www.foodallergyawareness.org/food-allergy-and-anaphylaxis/newly-diagnosed/

There is a section specific to each category, including a section on food allergy.

Peanut and tree nut allergens have a great deal of overlap, which is also discussed in the links I provided.

Everything I have read about food allergies stresses that reactions can change.

Anyone can develop a drug allergy, so I agree with you that we should all know the signs of a reaction. Scary stuff!

 

[mkatsy]

There is a section specific to each category, including a section on food allergy.

Peanut and tree nut allergens have a great deal of overlap, which is also discussed in the links I provided.

Everything I have read about food allergies stresses that reactions can change.

Anyone can develop a drug allergy, so I agree with you that we should all know the signs of a reaction. Scary stuff!

At this point, I feel like I have contributed all that I can to the conversation, and I need to tuck it in and put it to bed. Twitter and Redditt have active discussions going on that are super interesting and do contain some opinions that have not been shared here. I need to get back to worrying about Poly Tower

 

[Bo1203]

Food allergies really are so divisive, it's sad. Families fighting with extended family over what can be served at thanksgiving and birthdays. My daughter's elementary school went peanut free, lawsuits have occurred from both sides. One side thinks it's a complete joke, the other has unattainable expectations.

Raglan Road in our experiences there has some great wait staff. I wouldn't be quick to just assume they screwed up. Many unfortunate and plausible explanations. She could have touched any number of contaminated surfaces that day.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

One side thinks it's a complete joke, the other has unattainable expectations.

One side has to wait to get home to eat peanut butter...the other side could die at school in front of their friends and teachers....people can take it how they will

 

[toesmom]

My son is 20 now and very allergic to fish, anaphylactic and we figured it out when he was 8. I have huge fears that one day he will ingest fish and have something as bad happen to him. I prepare his lunch for university so I know he has food that is safe for him. We don't really eat out for dinner locally, few places which we know are ok, but mostly cook at home.

We almost exclusively go to disney and one of the main reasons is that we have a kitchen in our DVC studio room and the allergy menus when we do eat out in Disney World. This is the only place where I think we have some level of safety for allergens. He carries allerject, and after this happened to this doctor, it just scared me more. Hearing that more than one epipen did not help this lady is just awful. I know this is a forum for everyone's opinions but this is a parent's worst nightmare.

 

[brent02139]

It's a perfectly reasonable statement, and I took the time to go pull the references to show you why. "In general, the more prolonged the onset of anaphylactic symptoms, the less severe the overall reaction" (Sampson, 2000, p.928). Usually fatal anaphylaxis hits you fast, and it hits you hard. Let's use your son as our example. The time from his ingestion to symptoms was greater than one hour and you were able to resolve the situation on your own.

No, I didn't resolve it on my own. I managed it, as in I took control of the scene and followed the allergy action plan that is prescribed by our Doctor. I assessed him, I didn't see the respiratory distress that teachers were describing, gave him Benedryl and got him to the ER(we were close enough that calling an ambulance would have taken longer), while waiting he started wheezing, he was admitted immediately and got the full workup, 4-6 healthcare professionals working on him. Steriod IV , Epinephrine, nebulizer, and prescription for Prednisone when we were discharged.

Now let's look at children who had the opposite outcome with the same allergen. Nachshon & Katz (2012) reviewed the case studies of fatal anaphylaxis in children with milk allergy. All four children were in distress WITHIN MINUTES of the first bite.

fatal anaphylaxis only occurs approximately 125-150 times a year in the United States
approximately 26% of those are due to tree nut allergy.
the generally accepted window for tree nut anaphylaxis is 5-30 minutes.

because I can find no documented case of fatal tree nut anaphylaxis in the United Stated that was delayed >45 minutes after ingestion of the allergen, AND no warning symptoms were exhibited (runny nose, itchy mouth, tingling mouth, coughing), I believe it is more likely (the theoretical probability is greater) that she came in contact with the allergen much closer in time to when she collapsed in planet Hollywood.

you picked and choose few cases but let's see what they say.

in Sampson, he says
"Symptoms of food anaphylaxis may appear within seconds to a few hours after the food allergen is ingested, with the vast majority developing within the first hour."

I can pick a choose a few cases too
"A man died from an allergic reaction to nuts one hour after eating a slice of takeaway pizza, an inquest has heard."
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-67911589

"An hour and a half after Oakley had consumed the nut, his airways had suddenly closed and his heart stopped."
https://www.today.com/health/after-11-year-old-boy-s-sudden-death-mom-warns-t105529

Both the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease and the World Allergy Organisation would define acute allergy onset to be "minutes to several hours".
https://www.aaaai.org/Aaaai/media/M...ters/Anaphylaxis-Practice-Paramaters-2023.pdf

I am being very argumentative about this, I am usually not especially on an internet forum, because you're saying a slow anaphylaxis is less dangerous. Which is completely irrelevant due to the the fact that slower anaphylaxis still can kill. Making assumption and giving this kind of mileading info is dangerous to people.

 

[tinkerbellandpeterpan]

My son is 20 now and very allergic to fish, anaphylactic and we figured it out when he was 8. I have huge fears that one day he will ingest fish and have something as bad happen to him. I prepare his lunch for university so I know he has food that is safe for him. We don't really eat out for dinner locally, few places which we know are ok, but mostly cook at home.

We almost exclusively go to disney and one of the main reasons is that we have a kitchen in our DVC studio room and the allergy menus when we do eat out in Disney World. This is the only place where I think we have some level of safety for allergens. He carries allerject, and after this happened to this doctor, it just scared me more. Hearing that more than one epipen did not help this lady is just awful. I know this is a forum for everyone's opinions but this is a parent's worst nightmare.

I'm sorry.....you have a 20 year old son you make/pack lunch for every day?

 

[pigletgirl]

Regarding non-Disney operated restaurants in Disney springs - it was my understanding that they follow the same protocols as Disney restaurants for allergies. I could be wrong though.

One point of reference was a meal we had at the Boathouse 2 years ago. Our server was very chatty and was complaining to us about another table (doesn’t sound very professional but she was personable and funny) who had indicated they had allergies but were upset that they had to wait for the chef to come out and talk to them. Our server said something like “those are Disney rules and we can’t change them”.

Boathouse is definitely not Disney run but sounds like they agree to enact certain Disney policies. Then again maybe it’s not a uniform thing across all DS restaurants.

That is interesting and reassuring!!