Disney pricing the middle class out

[Planogirl]

Alright,
So I read the entire thread and I know this topic is old but this is important. What is the purpose of a vacation and time off? It is time to recoup to be able to come back to work creatively fresh, physically capable, and mentally strong. It is also time to come together as a family or with friends and create memories. The reason most of you wanted to go to Disney or go to Disney are for those reasons right. To spend time to create memories as it is probably one of the best destinations to do that. Its become a right of passage for all families whether rich, poor, middle class.

Disney isn't affordable for everyone yes and vacation is a luxury, however, guess who is taking advantage of that. The park down the street people love to call the darkside. I can get a 6 person suite at Cabana Bay for 115 dollars which is the same price as a regular room at Art of Animation. Of course, many of you will celebrate and say yea now the park is less crowded for me but at the same time, less revenue later on, less investment in the park and more stagnant it will be. Those same families will grow to love the other park and just like some of you who have gone for years do the same for the dark side. Record Profits mean nothing. All Disney did was replace the good old Americans who used to be able to attend the park with Brazilians but what's going to happen if something happens to their economy. Disney is going to have to sooner or later cut prices and those stock holders bragging about their high stock and pleased with the high prices will lose their investment due to greed of outpricing the middle class.

But by then, it won't matter. People will have either given up on a disney vacation because as many people on here, its a luxury they can't afford etc and go somewhere else and Disney is going to be cutting staff and things left and right to keep a high return for investors so they can keep prices low. In the end no one wins. Its smart for them to lower prices now, be affordable for more people, then to continue the path they are on. I mean a recession hits Britian and Brazil, lets be real, Disney can't handle that hit again.

Well said!

You just made me realize something. When we first visited Universal I didn't expect much but I was blown away. I think that much of it was that it was so new and different and that made me realize that the same old thing can be nice but it's good to mix it up with some things that are more exciting. Disney doesn't excite me and hasn't in a while. They could but they choose not to.

I agree that the economy going south would really hit a company like Disney hard. These parks are luxuries and would come far behind many other things that people might need to budget for in a recession. It's interesting.

 

[polineedyan]

There is a way to counter the increases..Buy DIS stock and share in the profits!

 

[thiee]

Well said!

You just made me realize something. When we first visited Universal I didn't expect much but I was blown away. I think that much of it was that it was so new and different and that made me realize that the same old thing can be nice but it's good to mix it up with some things that are more exciting. Disney doesn't excite me and hasn't in a while. They could but they choose not to.

I agree that the economy going south would really hit a company like Disney hard. These parks are luxuries and would come far behind many other things that people might need to budget for in a recession. It's interesting.

Economy going south hits everyone doesn't matter what company. Your either gonna go on a vacation or your not. Most people the extra cost of $800 isn't going to make a difference.

 

[Jake]

I think also most of the time at Disney is waiting on lines. Studios, has three rides that everyone wants to do and there is nothing else except for shows. The rides they have are great just not enough to do

 

[ffcheff]

If disney can redo studios in a timely manner and do not try and cut corners they will be untouchable. But as stated in this thread prices will rise with that demand. If the can't pull that off I agree that other park will benefit greatly.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I suppose if you hate capitalism, you could always move to one of the great communist nations of the world. I hear they are always looking to replace the people constantly fleeing their borders.

What a ridiculous tangent...

First, there has never been a "communist" nation on this asteroid...nothing ever close.

Second... The US is as socialist in its structure as most developed countries... The " free market" has never...nor would it dare to try...to stand on its own over amber waves of grain.

I mean... If you want to quip...understand the terms and the ideas behind them.

 

[ffcheff]

The millions of dead chinese that opposed Mao would disagree about what a true "communist" nation is but their voices were silenced by what ever you would like to call it.

 

[oddman]

What I see in this thread are Disney fans making excuses and ignoring the math.

Disney world tickets cost twice as much in inflation adjusted dollars as they did twenty years ago.
Lets be super duper clear so you understand. It costs twice as much purchasing power as it did on average circa 2000s.
That is a true increase in cost.
(no I will not lay out math yet again, I suggest you either search and find it or do it yourself.)

Now many of you are confusing COST with value, they are not the same thing at all.


The original point of this thread was to showcase the real increased costs being incurred to visit Disney and the fact that they seem to be continuing to increase faster than real inflation.


We get it, you love Disney and you will go no matter the cost, no matter the crowds no matter what.

But that is not the point of this thread, it is about Disney making a purposeful choice to raise prices as high as they can up until the point where they lose the middle class to some or other degree.


The increases in costs are very real, and that directly translates into fewer visits from marginal visitors. It is patently obvious and requires no explanation , but for some strange reason , posters here would rather pretend this is not true.

Disney's Parks used to be far and above the best , they were so far ahead all others simply paled in comparison. Today that is no longer true, today they are leaders, but gap has all but vanished.
15 years ago there was not a strong case to visit Orlando's parks and leave Disney out, instead there was a strong case to leave out all the others. Today that too has flipped, today one can put together very attractive packages without ever visiting Disney.... that alone should be setting off alarm bells at Dis HQ.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

What I see in this thread are Disney fans making excuses and ignoring the math.

Disney world tickets cost twice as much in inflation adjusted dollars as they did twenty years ago.
Lets be super duper clear so you understand. It costs twice as much purchasing power as it did on average circa 2000s.
That is a true increase in cost.
(no I will not lay out math yet again, I suggest you either search and find it or do it yourself.)

Now many of you are confusing COST with value, they are not the same thing at all.


The original point of this thread was to showcase the real increased costs being incurred to visit Disney and the fact that they seem to be continuing to increase faster than real inflation.


We get it, you love Disney and you will go no matter the cost, no matter the crowds no matter what.

But that is not the point of this thread, it is about Disney making a purposeful choice to raise prices as high as they can up until the point where they lose the middle class to some or other degree.


The increases in costs are very real, and that directly translates into fewer visits from marginal visitors. It is patently obvious and requires no explanation , but for some strange reason , posters here would rather pretend this is not true.

Disney's Parks used to be far and above the best , they were so far ahead all others simply paled in comparison. Today that is no longer true, today they are leaders, but gap has all but vanished.
15 years ago there was not a strong case to visit Orlando's parks and leave Disney out, instead there was a strong case to leave out all the others. Today that too has flipped, today one can put together very attractive packages without ever visiting Disney.... that alone should be setting off alarm bells at Dis HQ.

Universal as well by the way.

But inflation has been like 2% a year for 10 years. Just think how much busier it would be if they had followed that % with every cost related. Plus they are returning $5 Billion into the parks, plus DVC, MK Hub, D Springs and MM+.

 

[Andrew015]

Plus they are returning $5 Billion into the parks, plus DVC, MK Hub, D Springs and MM+.

Just because they are finally opening the purse strings today (for attractions that will be made available by what, ~2020?) doesn't justify the significant increases incurred over the past decade or longer. If the increases just started last year, then the $5 billion argument holds water, but that's not the case.

 

[marinejjh]

I guess you could say that. But we did Disney two years ago, and stayed off site and it was very affordable. The tickets to the parks cost more than the house for a week did.

In about a week we are going back and staying on site, and it is costing a LOT more, but not that bad as long as we budget where we are eating, and save up for the trip.

I guess my wife and I make decent money, but not what I would call 'rich' and actually, my wife doesn't even start her new job until August, so we only have the one income. <shrug>

The article makes good points, but I think you can do Disney on a budget is all I am saying.

If you use the dining plan it is actually cheaper. We priced it 2 years ago and It was going to cost us $200 more to stay off site. When you figure $17 a day to park, renting a car if you fly and food, it ads up. Plus you get the full exposure staying at the resort, you will have a great time staying there.

 

[ffcheff]

While the official inflation rate may be 2% check the price of fuel, energy and food. Disney uses alot of those every day. I do not dispute that prices have gone up. I just think that disney is not pricing out the middle class. They are trying to get people to spend more money on a perceived exclusive experience. Good for Disney. Lets hope they put some of those profits back into park upgrades and maintenance.

 

[pilferk]

While the official inflation rate may be 2% check the price of fuel, energy and food. Disney uses alot of those every day. I do not dispute that prices have gone up. I just think that disney is not pricing out the middle class. They are trying to get people to spend more money on a perceived exclusive experience. Good for Disney. Lets hope they put some of those profits back into park upgrades and maintenance.

I'm NOT nitpicking. OK, yes I am, but....I can't help it. Your point is still well made/taken

Fuel is, without inflation adjustment, about the same price it was a decade ago (it might be a little cheaper). It's less, in inflation adjusted dollars. That's been true for the better part of 6 months (and, honestly, well before Disney's latest round of increases or their tiered ticket pricing proposal hit the net). And it might be a LOT less come late summer/early fall, if the speculators are right.

For awhile, the fuel costs WERE getting up there. Not so much, now.

Think there's any chance Disney gives any of it back?

 

[Andrew015]

While the official inflation rate may be 2% check the price of fuel, energy and food. Disney uses alot of those every day.

So do tens of thousands of other U.S. companies, and I'm hard-pressed to name one that has had price increases anywhere near the size of Disney's over the past decade...

Lets hope they put some of those profits back into park upgrades and maintenance.

There has been little evidence of that over the past 10-15 years, so I'm kind of done with the hope & prayers routine. Sure, there are some projects in the pipeline that indicate that the purse strings are finally opening up a bit, but I'm not totally optimistic that we're headed back to the "glory days" by any stretch. Much of what is currently in the pipeline today seems to be lukewarm at best. And all that it will take for those purse strings to close back up is another downturn. For the sake of everything that is currently in the pipeline, we better hope that Greece and the rest of the EU turn the corner...

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Just because they are finally opening the purse strings today (for attractions that will be made available by what, ~2020?) doesn't justify the significant increases incurred over the past decade or longer. If the increases just started last year, then the $5 billion argument holds water, but that's not the case.

That's your opinion-I think it does. It's still too busy down there IMO.

Plus I'm talking since NFL and 7DMT opened. If that's last year your good with it? But not from when that did open? Splitting hairs.

 

[Andrew015]

That's your opinion-I think it does. It's still too busy down there IMO.

Too busy? HS and AK are typically empty by mid-afternoon. EPCOT isn't much better off, leaving MK as the only park that could possibly be classified as "busy". 75% of their gates need major help, and it's strictly a result of a decade's worth of sitting on their laurels.

Plus I'm talking since NFL and 7DMT opened. If that's last year your good with it? But not from when that did open? Splitting hairs.

Completely moot point, as the massive increases started long ago, much before NFL was even a thought. That's my entire point. You cannot possibly justify a decade's worth of unjustifiable price increases simply because they finally threw us a small bone with NFL. Too little, too late, and it's borderline insulting when you look at it from that perspective.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

Too busy? HS and AK are typically empty by mid-afternoon. EPCOT isn't much better off, leaving MK as the only park that could possibly be classified as "busy". 75% of their gates need major help, and it's strictly a result of a decade's worth of sitting on their laurels.

Pretty sure that they are expanding AK and DHS.

Completely moot point, as the massive increases started long ago, much before NFL was even a thought. That's my entire point. You cannot possibly justify a decade's worth of unjustifiable price increases simply because they finally threw us a small bone with NFL. Too little, too late, and it's borderline insulting when you look at it from that perspective.

Well I wasn't super clear sorry-I included NFL and 7DMT in the over $5 Billion into the parks. Not saying adding Soarin/TSM/EE was was a huge expansion even when prices were rising as a result of 10 years of major expansion, but in the big picture it is sounding like they are expanding where its needed.

 

[Andrew015]

Pretty sure that they are expanding AK and DHS.

Sure, but not because either of these parks are "too busy" as of the present. Rather, they're "too empty" - hence the new construction to try and remedy that.

Well I wasn't super clear sorry-I included NFL and 7DMT in the over $5 Billion into the parks. Not saying adding Soarin/TSM/EE was was a huge expansion even when prices were rising as a result of 10 years of major expansion, but in the big picture it is sounding like they are expanding where its needed.

Big picture, yes they are. However, I am guarded, as every other recent project / expansion has gone something like this: announce big, drag out, scale back, drag out some more, under deliver on initial promises. Especially in this stagnant economy, I'm all the more cautious. As previously mentioned, all that it would take is one more economic setback (i.e. Greece defaulting), which would lead to anything currently under construction being massively scaled back, and anything awaiting shovels hitting the ground to be shelved indefinitely. In other words, I'll believe all of these visions of grandeur when I see them. Not saying that they won't happen - I'm just cautious.

If any other business went to its customers with massive, YOY price increases for more than a decade - in a flat/declining economy - without providing any additional products/services in return, they wouldn't be in business today. In essence, we've acted as the bank since the early 2000's, and we don't have much interest (i.e. new attractions) to show for it. I get that Disney "can", and that's why they have. It doesn't make it any less painful to the faithful consumers.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The millions of dead chinese that opposed Mao would disagree about what a true "communist" nation is but their voices were silenced by what ever you would like to call it.

Their complaints would be about the same as the soccer fans from Santiago, chile...

And that was done so that university of Chicago economics could be tried in a vacuum...the real "champions of the free market"

Evil is under every rock turned by this species. Fact.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

That's your opinion-I think it does. It's still too busy down there IMO.

Plus I'm talking since NFL and 7DMT opened. If that's last year your good with it? But not from when that did open? Splitting hairs.

I think you're giving way too much credit where credit is not due...

A very common diagnosis in the land of disneydom