Disney Executive Producer admits to actively trying to "add queerness" and a "not-at-all-secret gay agenda"

[giantwiant]

That should have always been the rule. Not every female wants to be identified as Princess. If they are dressed for it (tiara, princess outfit, something else signaling they are participating) sure call them Princess but not ever female wants that.

Amen! My 15 yr old son has had long hair since he was 12 & gets called “princess” every visit to Disney. He just rolls his eyes, but it definitely takes away from the magic. Also, as a girl, I would have hated to be called princess. I still would. I associate that term with women who won’t do everyday things for themselves (open doors, pump gas, carry groceries, etc…) just because they are female.

 

[BroganMc]

And, yet again, disabilities, especially mobility limitations, deaf, and vision-impaired, are not considered and represented.

How many current TV shows have anyone with a significant disabilities?

yes, there was one person with a mobility/hearing/vision disability recognized at the Oscars. One.

Yup. Being disabled is just not "chic" in Progressive culture which is why I laugh at Progressives and their notions of inclusivity. There are more disabled people in the US (12.7%) then there are LGBTQ (5.6%). Disability crosses all gender, age, ethnicity and socioeconomic lines. Yet how many Heroes and heroines has Disney created with disabilities? The closest it's probably Quasimodo.

Once Upon a Time Hollywood Studios did a Stage production a Quasimodo story. That was long abandoned to the rubbish Heap.

But I guess it's just easier to just ignore this group. Or pity it. Or copy it so you can get some perceived advantage by using a disabled accommodation.

 

[New Mouse]

If you want an understanding of the infighting within the company when it comes to being woke/pc, just take a look at how the progress on that Splash Mountain/princess overlay is going.

 

[Where’s the beef]

I'm not talking about tolerance and acceptance, of course Disney should be welcoming to everyone.

I'm just making a point on the numbers. Even in a hypothetical perfect progressive utopia where everyone is 100% accepting of everyone else, the vast majority of people (and an even higher percentage of prepubescent children) will still sort themselves into the traditional gender binary. Most people identify as men and women, boys and girls.

Analogy... You're hosting a wedding with 100 guests. Two of them are vegetarians and the rest of them want steak. The "backwards" thing to do would be to only serve beef and force the vegetarians to either eat it or go hungry. The inclusive thing to do would be to offer a vegetarian option, but still serve beef to the people who want it. Disney has chosen to take the steak off the menu entirely, serve the vegetarian meal to everyone, and strongly imply that anyone unhappy with the elimination of the meat option is a bigot.

This is a really bad analogy unless it’s going right over my head. People used to being catered to who get upset when things change and focus shifts to other groups of people don’t come off looking great. And literally no one would call someone who’s disappointed about a veggie burger a bigot. Someone who’s upset that different kinds of love or identities or cultures get the spotlight for once fits that definition much better.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Amen! My 15 yr old son has had long hair since he was 12 & gets called “princess” every visit to Disney. He just rolls his eyes, but it definitely takes away from the magic.

Having long hair is not an immutable characteristic, it's a choice. This is like wearing a Yankees shirt and then getting upset that someone assumes you're a baseball fan.

 

[Where’s the beef]

Yup. Being disabled is just not "chic" in Progressive culture which is why I laugh at Progressives and their notions of inclusivity. There are more disabled people in the US (12.7%) then there are LGBTQ (5.6%). Disability crosses all gender, age, ethnicity and socioeconomic lines. Yet how many Heroes and heroines has Disney created with disabilities? The closest it's probably Quasimodo.

Once Upon a Time Hollywood Studios did a Stage production a Quasimodo story. That was long abandoned to the rubbish Heap.

But I guess it's just easier to just ignore this group. Or pity it. Or copy it so you can get some perceived advantage by using a disabled accommodation.

Does this mean no one should get the representation they deserve?

You are absolutely right that it’s a huge problem and there’s so much progress to be made. However (and please correct me with facts if I’m wrong), if Disney announced that they’re pushing for majority disabled characters and storylines that better represent this population, the outcry would not be nearly the same. No one (mostly) would say they don’t want their kids to watch a movie with someone in a wheelchair or an amputee or blind because it goes against their own personal idea of what’s “right.

 

[Where’s the beef]

Having long hair is not an immutable characteristic, it's a choice. This is like wearing a Yankees shirt and then getting upset that someone assumes you're a baseball fan.

If you’re wearing a Yankees shirt you probably are?

 

[dreamer17555]

Having long hair is not an immutable characteristic, it's a choice. This is like wearing a Yankees shirt and then getting upset that someone assumes you're a baseball fan.

My son has longer hair. Also we tend not to assume girl with shorter hair are boys so why is it okay the other way around? Are you saying that it is clearly okay for cast members to call people with hair of a certain length princess? Does that mean in your opinion they should not call girls with shorter hair princess?

 

[Where’s the beef]

My son has longer hair. Also we tend not to assume girl with shorter hair are boys so why is it okay the other way around?

It’s not. It’s just another bad analogy.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

This is a really bad analogy unless it’s going right over my head. People used to being catered to who get upset when things change and focus shifts to other groups of people don’t come off looking great. And literally no one would call someone who’s disappointed about a veggie burger a bigot. Someone who’s upset that different kinds of love or identities or cultures get the spotlight for once fits that definition much better.

I think we're talking about two different things. In their media content, Disney is framing this as an expansion to feature new types of characters and stories, which seems to be what you're referring to. In the parks, Disney is doing the opposite. They're not adding new stuff, they're cancelling (for lack of a better term) the old stuff.

My son has longer hair. Also we tend not to assume girl with shorter hair are boys so why is it okay the other way around? Are you saying that it is clearly okay for cast members to call people with hair of a certain length princess? Does that mean in your opinion they should not call girls with shorter hair princess?

I'm saying in 99% of cases, you can make a reasonable inference of someone's gender identity by looking at them, including trans people by the way. It's not a perfect inference, but a reasonable one. If PP's son is frequently mistaken for a girl and that bothers him, he could address the issue with a simple haircut. I think that's a much more reasonable accommodation that asking the rest of society to pretend like "boys and girls" don't exist.

 

[BrianL]

Since this thread is amazingly still going, I'll elaborate on my thoughts that art imitates life (thanks for all the likes by the way!). Inclusivity is not a bad thing. People of various sexual and gender orientations are visible in our society - more visible than ever, so of course they are going to become more visible in movies and such. That just makes sense. Now, it's not always handled in great way - sometimes it's ham-fisted, sometimes it still plays to stereotypes, and sometimes it's just plain bad. But, you know a lot of movies are bad, with or without inclusivity. Execution is going to vary, but as someone else mentioned, we can't let "perfect be the enemy of good." This stuff isn't done with any malicious intent against the majority, it's done with an eye toward those who have been traditionally marginalized. It's trying to make it better for them, and it's fine that some things do that. This idea that something is being "taken away" is false - many of these examples aren't even true. like never calling a child prince or princess - that's not actually happening!

Instead of being so divided and divisive, we need to come together. There are a lot of knee-jerk reactions happening out there - all sides do it too. What we need to figure out is how we can be in a place there there are no "sides" at all.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

This idea that something is being "taken away" is false - many of these examples aren't even true. like never calling a child prince or princess - that's not actually happening!

I don't know what to tell you, but you're just wrong on the facts here. I agree with the vast majority of what you wrote, but it all hinges on this.

I've seen the training materials with my own two eyes. It is absolutely company policy that cast members should not use any "gendered language" whatsoever to refer to guests. Maybe some cast members haven't received that training (yet), or maybe some of them are choosing to ignore it, but that doesn't mean it's not policy.

 

[Princesca]

We aren’t supposed to discuss politics on this board

I don't think the matter of increasing minority representation in Disney productions/theme parks should be considered politics.

 

[dez1978]

If you’re wearing a Yankees shirt you probably are?

I mean, when I was 12 I wore a charlotte hornets starter jacket bc I liked the colors and it was the "in" thing. I hate basketball...

 

[musika]

99 out of 100 four year old girls want to be called Princess. Why are you concerned more about the 1 than the 99?

Ironically, gay male cast members have always been the ones who have created the best magical "princess" moments for my daughters.

Because that 1 is still a child who deserves to not be marginalized. My goodness.

We have several transgender friends in our lives and it's been very enlightening to me. Changing my language to be more inclusive seems like the absolute smallest gesture I can make as a CIS white privileged ally. It matters not to my little Brownies whether I call them girls or kids, but it matters a great deal to the one pansexual Guide in my group who isn't sure yet on their gender identity. Language matters, and if Disney is in fact taking a step in this direction then I would applaud it.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Because that 1 is still a child who deserves to not be marginalized.

So marginalize the 99, got it.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Good lord, what we allow ourselves to get so upset by these days is insane.

It's like we look for things to complain about, instead of actually complaining about the real issues we have.

 

[csmommy]

I'm saying in 99% of cases, you can make a reasonable inference of someone's gender identity by looking at them, including trans people by the way. It's not a perfect inference, but a reasonable one. If PP's son is frequently mistaken for a girl and that bothers him, he could address the issue with a simple haircut. I think that's a much more reasonable accommodation that asking the rest of society to pretend like "boys and girls" don't exist.

Why does it matter what sex someone is?

Also - your continual 99% is laughable. I never wanted to be a princess as I see them as weak & in need of rescuing, so does my daughter, so do many of my nieces - although I do love most of their dresses. I had short hair growing up b/c it was easier to take care of.

 

[csmommy]

So marginalize the 99, got it.

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

 

[tup1830]

Can someone help me?

Can't say gender specific terms (prince and princess), can't say boy or girl, can't say children (someone may be very small/short and mistaken for a child), wouldn't be good to say, hello person under the age of 18 (what if they just look super young)....

What should they be called?

I'm not picking sides, but there is no silver bullet option. I may be in the minority, but as someone that is in the minority, you just learn to let things roll off your mind/back and enjoy life. Life is too short to get caught up in words, ideas and boxes as such.