DAS changes coming WDW May 20/ DL June 18, 2024

[SueM in MN]

“Because of this, property wide there is to be a removal of CM language involving "move all the way forward in line..." so there isn't any encouragement to crowd each other. Just to focus on moving forward.”

^ This would be a HUGE and welcome change that I’ll believe when I actually see it happen! The one reason I’m skeptical is that they really need to fill in all available space to avoid lines - think HM as an example - from inundating public space that shouldn’t have an attraction line in it. I visited during the social distancing phase of reopening after the COVID shutdown and that HM line extended back almost to the Tom Sawyer’s Island raft entrance.


I asked about this when I called - that was 2 days before the rollout of changes, but I specifically asked my CM, “I’m usually visiting solo, but sometimes a local friend will be able to join me for a ride or two on short notice - do you know yet how would I go about adding them to my DAS party for that day under the new system?” And they said it would be an easy change: just go through the chat as if I were registering, but instead type in that I already have an active DAS and just need to change my DAS party. They said as long as that new party was already in my F&F list, it would be a quick, easy change that I could do day-of in the park, and that it might even be handled via chat without needing to ever get to the video call. They’re answer was clear and specific enough that it did not felt made-up: it seemed pretty clear to me that they had a process for that already.

I really want to hear from someone who rides the haunted mansion since the change if they no longer tell you to fill in all available space before you enter the mansion. That would seriously be amazing if true. I can keep out of the crowd for this ride everywhere else but this extreme anxiety producing part.

I'll post our HM experience next week in this thread.

I was reading down further on the other forum where the CM disclosed the information about not filling in all the space and they stated (bolding is mine)

"It would be "keep moving forward with the line" instead of "keep up with the party in front of you and fill in all the available space"

Not sure how that applies to shows, but attraction lines will get these language changes. How effectively it gets adopted and trained is anyone's guess."

I'm not sure what that will do with the stretching room of HM nor how that would mean extra space is created after the stretching room where you're funneled down into a single file to load the attraction. Also it does make me wonder if they are tweaking the number of guests allowed in the stretching room if it's not fill in all the available space. Let us know if you remember if it's just more keep the line moving as opposed to bunching everyone up in one defined area, it seems that for some the issue is the bunching up in one defined area but you'd still need to keep moving rather than have large chunks of space between parties, at least going off of that person's comment on the other forum.

My family was at WDW from April 14 thru May 1, 2024

We already saw changes regarding 'filling in space'. We never heard 'fill all the available space'.
We did hear:
- keep moving with the line
- move forward in the room
- please move up
- and directions to where to go (i.e. "there's still room on the right side of the room")

Sorry - this will be long, but I want to be specific.....
At Haunted Mansion, it seemed like less people were grouped together to enter the building. We were traveling with a guest using a wheelchair. When we got into the area just before entering the building, we were directed to stay to the right, along with all guests with mobility devices and a guy with a white cane; not sure if it was all white (usually designates blind) or white with red tip (usually designates low vision).
As we entered the building into the aging portrait room, we were told to stay to the right and wait for a CM before entering or leaving the stretching room.
After all the other guests had entered, our group of guests with disabilities was brought into the stretching room by a CM shining a flashlight to show us where to go. The CM led the guy with the cane.
In the past, the CM would have said something like 'move to the DEAD center of the room to fill all available space'. This time, the CM said "move away from the walls toward the center of the room"
As guests were entering into the loading area, the guests with disabilities were asked to stay together in the room. After they had all left, we were asked to form a sideways line to get instructions from the CM.
I noticed 2 things right away about the boarding room compared to when we rode last Fall:
- the boarding room seemed to not be as dark
- right in front of us, there was a straight chained off area that led right to the start of the moving walkway.
The CM asked some questions one at a time and asked each group to raise their hands if it was an issue for them. My memory of the questions is:
- can you walk this far to board (pointing at the extra chained off area)?
- can you board and get off using a moving walkway?
- can you walk from the unload area to your mobility device (I think he gave a distance)?

All the other guests had no issues, so they were instructed to board and told where to find their device after riding.
We had an issue with everything since DD can't walk, so we were led to the unload area to board. That worked as it had before.
When we got off, we noticed a group with 2 ECVs waiting at the exit to board. They must have had an issue with one or more of the questions

 

[Angel Ariel]

When talking to my friend about this, they said they were explaining their needs and issues to the CM. Not just that they were autistic. Of course the answer they got wasn’t as short as I posted out but those were basically the words used by the cm when discussing the issues as a conversation. For example without giving too much detail (although how it’d help cheaters at this point I don’t know): explaining specific sensory issues etc with waiting in lines was met with the response to practice more with waiting in lines. Suggestions of using headphones and fidgets, which they already do and explained issues with how those don’t completely work for their needs etc, was met with the need to work more on their coping skills.

The deeper this went on the harder this was on my friend to communicate their needs as they were basically writing off their concerns with suggestions. My friend was getting upset, flustered etc. I understand this as I’ve met this problem in real life with medical professionals. This type of writing off issues can be difficult to handle and I don’t think there truthfully was more my friend could have done.

I guess the only thing is the suggestion of trying without and failing and going back again with specific examples of what happens. I’m doubtful it’ll work. My friend is pretty put off by this experience and I don’t blame them for wanting to avoid another interaction like this.

And the bolded represents a failure in the training by the "health care" team, as this is not an uncommon reaction for autistic people, and the way these discussions are structured should not exacerbate that (there have been multiple reports of this basically being script-led responses, which indicates an issue with the script and/or training).

 

[Chuckdlc]

You might want to check on that. My understanding is that since the other party (Disney) has already denied consent to record, you no longer have the right to record without informing the other party -- at which point they have the right to end the call. The 2 key parts of this are italicized.

If you hadn't accepted their T&C, or the T&C did not mention anything about recording, then in a 1-party consent state you could record it without mention.

Don't need to check on it. One has an absolute right to request a reasonable accommodation - no strings attached to that. If Disney is impeding one's right to request an accommodation by placing restrictions on it, they've already lost the initial argument.

You assume certain risks when riding theme park rides also but just by paying for that ticket and clicking on the terms and conditions you're not going to be precluded from getting a suit filed - Just ask the people on the people mover a few years back or the lady who was attacked by her bathing suit on one of their water slides. And as nuts as that second one sounds, remember that it made national news. So I'm not concerned with these "ironclad"" terms and conditions.

 

[dreamer17555]

As to the fill-in all available space part- we were there at the end of April and in early May and not only did we hear that line we also heard the ‘clap once if you can hear me, clap twice if you can hear me, if you have space to clap you have space to move forward’ more than once

 

[lanejudy]

My apologies if this has been addressed before. My biggest problem with all of this is the statement in bold. There are old Plan Disney posts that encourage those with MEDICAL conditions to apply for DAS. I understand it's Disney's program and they can change the rules but I find it insulting to say that it was ever only intended for developmental disabilities.

It wasn't ONLY ever intended for "developmental disabilities" and my understanding is that it can still be granted for other diagnoses. It all depends on the needs.

When DAS began, a much smaller portion of the US population (to say nothing of international) identified as "disabled." Since then medical advances have helped diagnose more people, environmental factors have impacted more people's health, and the population has aged with longer lives lived "better" (not stuck at home). Plus during that time the world became more accepting and inclusive. The number of people who identify as "disabled" has grown exponentially over time. DAS was never intended to be available to a large percentage of park-going population; it was expected to be a very small portion of guests. It's not that DAS was originally intended for only developmental disabilities, but the need for accommodations has outgrown what DAS can provide within the operational confines. Alternative accommodations have become necessary.

Are you suggesting that all old PlanDisney responses be removed? That may be a good idea, though I highly doubt it will happen. My standard response about planDisney (or the old Mom's Panel) is that it includes a disclaimer. Disney won't acknowledge a wrong answer and remove it, and there are wrong answers plenty.

 

[jlundeen]

My family was at WDW from April 14 thru May 1, 2024

We already saw changes regarding 'filling in space'. We never heard 'fill all the available space'.
We did hear:
- keep moving with the line
- move forward in the room
- please move up
- and directions to where to go (i.e. "there's still room on the right side of the room")

Sorry - this will be long, but I want to be specific.....
At Haunted Mansion, it seemed like less people were grouped together to enter the building. We were traveling with a guest using a wheelchair. When we got into the area just before entering the building, we were directed to stay to the right, along with all guests with mobility devices and a guy with a white cane; not sure if it was all white (usually designates blind) or white with red tip (usually designates low vision).
As we entered the building into the aging portrait room, we were told to stay to the right and wait for a CM before entering or leaving the stretching room.
After all the other guests had entered, our group of guests with disabilities was brought into the stretching room by a CM shining a flashlight to show us where to go. The CM led the guy with the cane.
In the past, the CM would have said something like 'move to the DEAD center of the room to fill all available space'. This time, the CM said "move away from the walls toward the center of the room"
As guests were entering into the loading area, the guests with disabilities were asked to stay together in the room. After they had all left, we were asked to form a sideways line to get instructions from the CM.
I noticed 2 things right away about the boarding room compared to when we rode last Fall:
- the boarding room seemed to not be as dark
- right in front of us, there was a straight chained off area that led right to the start of the moving walkway.
The CM asked some questions one at a time and asked each group to raise their hands if it was an issue for them. My memory of the questions is:
- can you walk this far to board (pointing at the extra chained off area)?
- can you board and get off using a moving walkway?
- can you walk from the unload area to your mobility device (I think he gave a distance)?

All the other guests had no issues, so they were instructed to board and told where to find their device after riding.
We had an issue with everything since DD can't walk, so we were led to the unload area to board. That worked as it had before.
When we got off, we noticed a group with 2 ECVs waiting at the exit to board. They must have had an issue with one or more of the questions

I had the same experience on HM this past April (ECV)... stayed to the right in the queue (where I could focus on the grounds beyond the fence), then also stayed to the right on entering the building. Asked to stay there until everyone else was in the shrinking room, then led into it to the right. Again asked to stay there until the room cleared, then asked if we wanted to load with the rest of the room or go to the exit, which we did. It was quite a wait there, but not crowded.

Apparently there are only a few of the ride vehicles that they can stop at for us to enter, and they had to come around again, so when they did, they stopped the ride and we left the EVC and walked with my cane to the vehicle. Same with exiting, they stopped the ride, asked us to stay seated until others had cleared, then we could leave. Worked out well. It certainly was not any faster than boarding with the crowd, since as we were waiting we recognized some of the people we were in the stretching room with as they left.

 

[keishashadow]

ultimately the CM has the final say.

More concerning to me is the comments I’m reading about it possibly being a final, one & done. No option to reapply in the future??? What if issues in line worsen for the person?

I’ve been reading posts all day. I kind of wonder if they are denying more APs than others? It seems like in an AP FB group there are a lot of denials, many being adults. Maybe they are trying to curb abuse of APs who can bring friends vs the family that comes once a year or once every few years and uses it for only a week with their immediate family. Guess we will have to wait and we if there is any sort of consistency as people post their stories. We aren’t going until 2025 so the rules may change by then.

IMO It shouldn’t matter if the APH visits once or multiple times a year & whether they come with different family members or friends, as if their issues waiting in line are the same & they stick within the group limit

I’d also add that APs might just be motivated to get the registration anxiety out of the way ASAP for the next 120 days and can pick their 30 day date, so they were more likely to call today

True, would hazard the majority are experiencing substantial anxiety over this

They said they’re AP holders with 5 prepaid trips and years of experience going to the parks. One would think they could figure out Genie+ enough to book a few of the coveted attractions. I could see this being an issue for a novice.

Not necessarily. Many of us didn’t grow up with the current technology and had to find our way. We’ve tried Genie + several times. It’s been a resounding failure, mostly as the rides we are interested in aren’t available until later in the day…when we have long left the parks. We’ve left purchased LL on the table too.

While many DAS holders are commandos, many are only able to visit the parks a few times during their vacations and struggle to do that. even then, despite having the best intentions, perhaps just a few hours a day before their conditions get the better of them.

I think most people would be fine with 6-8 rides.

See above, IMO even a couple of FP would be truly appreciated by those who are told they no longer “need” DAS.

and then universal approves you because "they" approved you.

Um, no. That is not a guarantee. There have been many reports of people getting the initial nod by IBCESS & then being turned down by Universal TMs.

Interestingly, many who used their prior version of it where pleasantly surprised to be told they needed a higher level of accommodation and were granted “gold”…escort directly back to the ride once the wait time was satisfied.

That last one makes me very mad as, myself also an autistic person, someone talking to you for a few minutes has no idea how “severe” your autism is..not that’s even a thing anyways. It’s based on levels of support.

Absolutely.

It hasn’t been mentioned much here as to how many have developed coping skills to the point where they can communicate in some fashion with a CM to discuss their needs on an assessment call.

At the risk of appearing over sensitive: That whole concept of being “eyed up” within a few minutes by a loosely trained CM and being told one can manage without DAS is what is sticking out to me. They refuse to look or discuss diagnosis out of hand, however, it sure appears as though CMs are doing a defacto one of their own.

Severely stressed, many people can very quickly slip into a totally different persona when triggered, such as in a long standby line; be it a neurodivergent or PTSD issue. Not a stretch to imagine we are going to see this, what can often be a rather scary looking situation, play out in line.

 

[lanejudy]

Don't need to check on it.

My response was specifically about your declaration that you could legally record the video chat because NJ is a one-party consent state. You are no longer on the legal end of that if the other party has denied consent and you don't inform them.

As to legality of being asked to waive any rights to receive any accommodation... I'm sure it has been passed through Disney's legal team who feels they are within the law. Despite that, yes anybody can bring a lawsuit.

Also, depending on one's needs, it is becoming apparent that many people may not need to do a video chat to have access to the level of accommodation that Disney is largely offering.

 

[Disneychick75]

You might want to check on that. My understanding is that since the other party (Disney) has already denied consent to record, you no longer have the right to record without informing the other party -- at which point they have the right to end the call. The 2 key parts of this are italicized.

If you hadn't accepted their T&C, or the T&C did not mention anything about recording, then in a 1-party consent state you could record it without mention.

Just read the Terms and Conditions for DAS calls and saw nothing about consent or non consent to record. Is it on another page of Terms and Conditions? Searched and could not find anything about Disney and recording.
FL has a "all must consent" law. "When a telephone conversation is between parties who are in different states, it also increases the chance that federal law might apply." Federal law is One Party consent. So it seems that if someone from FL calls Disney which has offices in FL, all parties must consent to record, however, if someone calls from out of state and Federal law is applied, it's One Party consent.
Federal Law, if anyone is interested:
“It shall not be unlawful under this chapter for a person not acting under color of law to intercept a wire, oral, or electronic communication where such person is a party to the communication or where one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent to such interception unless such communication is intercepted to commit any criminal or tortious act in violation of the Constitution or laws of the U.S. or of any State.”

 

[StarLime]

More concerning to me is the comments I’m reading about it possibly being a final, one & done. No option to reapply in the future??? What if issues in line worsen for the person?

Is that a part of the new policy? I don’t see how they could automatically deny you before you get to speak to a CM in the future. I’m sure they’d give you a chance to explain your condition. I’d hope, at least.

 

[jlundeen]

Just read the Terms and Conditions for DAS calls and saw nothing about consent or non consent to record. Is it on another page of Terms and Conditions? Searched and could not find anything about Disney and recording.
...

Maybe it's part of the video screen section when they send the invitation to connect... I'm sure I saw it somewhere..... but of course since I had no reason (or ability) to record from my screen, I just passed it by without paying much attention. I'm always nervous during the registration, and get flustered pretty quickly, so I just noticed it was there and went on.

 

[Liquidice]

More concerning to me is the comments I’m reading about it possibly being a final, one & done. No option to reapply in the future??? What if issues in line worsen for the person?

Is that a part of the new policy? I don’t see how they could automatically deny you before you get to speak to a CM in the future. I’m sure they’d give you a chance to explain your condition. I’d hope, at least.

No I have read multiple accounts of someone being denied and being told they can re-apply again in the future, even as soon as the next day.

Also, there have been multiple accounts of people being approved and being told that after their DAS expired they would have to re-apply again and may not be approved the next time.

So it seems like it works both ways, you can be denied and re-apply and possibly be approved and you can be approved and re-apply and possibly be denied the next time.

 

[notatallmagic]

They said they’re AP holders with 5 prepaid trips and years of experience going to the parks. One would think they could figure out Genie+ enough to book a few of the coveted attractions. I could see this being an issue for a novice.

Again, Genie+ and/LL are not a fit for our needs. Without offering too much, we need to preplan in advance each park day, based on factors including weather, test results, and dietary issues. We need specific plans for shade, restrooms, and temperature controls. The planning can take hours, so as Passholders, we generally stick to our specific tried and tested "script" at each park. There are areas and attractions we don't visit, as they don't fit or have access to what we need.

Genie and LLdont allow and work into that type of planning scenario. They often require/recommend crisscrossing the parks, which is disastrous for us. So yes, we're aware, and no, these are not options.

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

I have been trying to resist replying to many of the legal claims/advice throughout this thread (not always successfully )— but I’ve now seen so much shoddy legal analysis (encouraging people to sue, providing overly confident analysis about whether or not something is a crime/breach of contract, telling people what accommodations a court will/will not allow, etc.) that I think the moderators should consider discouraging (or deleting) legal advice on this thread, just like they discouraged speculation. I know that it’s a stressful, emotional time and the mods are doing a great (often thankless job) so I hate to add extra work, but I would also hate to see someone on this thread get excluded from DAS or a lifetime ban from WDW because they thought they had legal advice it was OK to violate Disney’s terms and conditions they agreed to.

 

[Disneychick75]

Maybe it's part of the video screen section when they send the invitation to connect... I'm sure I saw it somewhere..... but of course since I had no reason (or ability) to record from my screen, I just passed it by without paying much attention. I'm always nervous during the registration, and get flustered pretty quickly, so I just noticed it was there and went on.

LOL, I get nervous too when I get the invitation. Seems like it would be in the Terms and Conditions we have to sign before getting connected but who knows the ins and outs of a mouse brain?

 

[Princesca]

Genie and LLdont allow and work into that type of planning scenario. They often require/recommend crisscrossing the parks, which is disastrous for us. So yes, we're aware, and no, these are not options.

Same. If we have to crisscross parks, we are going to be creating additional physical and emotional stressors in an already fraught situation. I'm willing to consider Genie+ if we literally have no other recourse, but if that's the case, I can promise you it will be awhile before we go back to Disney, and we will soon be making our first trip to Universal, most likely. Our son has never really been into the Disney stuff anyway and is highly likely to be interested in the new Universal expansion, tbh we mostly do Disney for my inner child. :/

 

[lanejudy]

Just read the Terms and Conditions for DAS calls and saw nothing about consent or non consent to record. Is it on another page of Terms and Conditions? Searched and could not find anything about Disney and recording.
FL has a "all must consent" law. "When a telephone conversation is between parties who are in different states, it also increases the chance that federal law might apply." Federal law is One Party consent. So it seems that if someone from FL calls Disney which has offices in FL, all parties must consent to record, however, if someone calls from out of state and Federal law is applied, it's One Party consent.
Federal Law, if anyone is interested:
“It shall not be unlawful under this chapter for a person not acting under color of law to intercept a wire, oral, or electronic communication where such person is a party to the communication or where one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent to such interception unless such communication is intercepted to commit any criminal or tortious act in violation of the Constitution or laws of the U.S. or of any State.”

None of that confirms or denies what I stated. The issue is when one party declines to be recorded and the other party records anyway without informing. No longer a legal recording.

 

[notatallmagic]

Curious what the group would recommend. We have an "old" approved DAS for a 2 day trip next week - just me (parent) and my DAS kiddo.

That approval will expire before four more trips planned this summer until our APs expire. I am not hopeful that DAS will be granted for these trips based on what I'm reading today. My hurts.

I was just at Disney twice in the past month with my other kiddo. 18 years old with other issues - we were actively "researching and experimenting" on how some of these other options might work - could he stand in line alone? Wait while his sister and I rode? And it was a hard, ugly no.

In our party of 3, my DAS Holder cannot be left unattended, nor can he be the one to accompany her (often into a restroom) or safely and calmly administer treatment.

So, what to do? We have really saved and researched and rented DVC points to stay at some Deluxe resorts (we have always been Pop Century is a splurge kinda people) so we can utilize the extra evening hours at Magic and Epcot for a couple days - so we are willing and have tried to "find" ways to work around, and I'm still struggling. Disney was the one place where my kids and I could relax, enjoy, and almost feel "normal".

 

[Princesca]

In our party of 3, my DAS Holder cannot be left unattended, nor can he be the one to accompany her (often into a restroom) or safely and calmly administer treatment.

We are in a similar situation in that my partner and my child are on the spectrum and have sensory issues, and my partner has panic attacks in close confines. It sounds like the recommendation will be for her to leave line, but that leaves me in charge of a ND child that I cannot physically restrain. Yet she can't take him with her, because she can't then tend to her own needs. I'm hopeful if we get DAS for both of them and explain our family situation, they will be kind and grant us sufficient accommodation.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

Curious what the group would recommend. We have an "old" approved DAS for a 2 day trip next week - just me (parent) and my DAS kiddo.

That approval will expire before four more trips planned this summer until our APs expire. I am not hopeful that DAS will be granted for these trips based on what I'm reading today. My hurts.

I was just at Disney twice in the past month with my other kiddo. 18 years old with other issues - we were actively "researching and experimenting" on how some of these other options might work - could he stand in line alone? Wait while his sister and I rode? And it was a hard, ugly no.

In our party of 3, my DAS Holder cannot be left unattended, nor can he be the one to accompany her (often into a restroom) or safely and calmly administer treatment.

So, what to do? We have really saved and researched and rented DVC points to stay at some Deluxe resorts (we have always been Pop Century is a splurge kinda people) so we can utilize the extra evening hours at Magic and Epcot for a couple days - so we are willing and have tried to "find" ways to work around, and I'm still struggling. Disney was the one place where my kids and I could relax, enjoy, and almost feel "normal".

Annual passes are a sunk cost, so setting them aside, how much of the rest of your plans is non-refundable? Do you fly or drive? Can you get a refund for any of the resorts and/or re-rent them out to someone else? Is there anyone else who might be able to travel with you to help out if you covered their costs?

For me, 5 trips to Disney over the span of a few months may be “too much” if the logistics prove really difficult for your family. I would probably try to get DAS for trip 2 (as you already have it for trip 1). If you get it, great. If not, I’d shift gears and consider trip 2 to be largely a “let’s enjoy these amazing Deluxe resorts” trips and only go into the parks a little bit (if at all). Sleep in. Go for a swim. Check out the water parks. Eat at some new restaurants. Explore the new cabins. And try your best to see if you can make the “new DAS” world work for your family in a low-stakes way (i.e. we’re only going to do 2 rides today and see how it goes).

If trip 2 is a disaster then you have your answer. Refund what you can and chalk everything else up to the cost of living in a family with special needs. Or use your hotel as just a hotel and explore what else Orlando has to offer.

I’m sorry that you are struggling so much.