Closing Time!!

[marisabuzz]

If you are a lucky one and MS gives you your membership number, do they give you the activation code too or is it best to hang up and call back ?

You can probably ask them to transfer you to MS, but I just hung up and called back.

 

[hayesdvc]

I just have to point out that if you go through back threads, there are plenty of American sellers who are also "unmotivated" and therefore delayed on returning documents. This is really nothing that is unique to "Canadian sellers". And while your sellers might or might not have used tracked or expedited mail to send their documents, the regular mail delivery standard between major Canadian and US centres is usually about 4 days. It's not a major delay.

As a buyer, it took me some time (about a week) to get my documents in the mail, and then I sent them by 2-day delivery. So it was about a week and half before the title company received them. My American sellers executed their deed after my documents were received by the title company. And then they still would have had to return them. I know this because I have both the dated deed, signed in Michigan, and the tracking information on my own documents.

So while you are welcome to blame the delay on your sellers, please don't delude yourself into thinking it has anything to do with their nationality or place of residence. Doing so is both unreasonable and unfair, and unjustly gives all international sellers a bad name. There may be some small part of the delay that can be directly attributed to the international sale, but it's likely insignificant on the overall process - at most a few days.

Thanks for your reply. In researching the minimum time frame I was expecting going the resale route, I wanted to eliminate anything I could effect (which was little to nothing). After finding out after the fact the seller was located in Canada, I assumed correctly there was a chance it would take longer. The two reasons will be the additional step that *** has to perform after receiving the Seller's documents with the Canadian seller due to a tax that has to be satisfied (did not get into the weeds what/why, just know that it is an additional step) in acquiring additional paperwork. The other issue is whether the seller sent the documents back in a week or the same day I know is regardless of where the seller is located, however, the issue in my mind was the mail time if sent regular mail and the reputation the Canadian postal service has in general. At this point, the seller stated they mailed the information back to *** on the 8th. Comparing apples to apples if the seller was in the US and sent the documents back regular mail on the 8th, *** would have most likely already closed by now.

 

[mab2012]

Thanks for your reply. In researching the minimum time frame I was expecting going the resale route, I wanted to eliminate anything I could effect (which was little to nothing). After finding out after the fact the seller was located in Canada, I assumed correctly there was a chance it would take longer. The two reasons will be the additional step that *** has to perform after receiving the Seller's documents with the Canadian seller due to a tax that has to be satisfied (did not get into the weeds what/why, just know that it is an additional step) in acquiring additional paperwork. The other issue is whether the seller sent the documents back in a week or the same day I know is regardless of where the seller is located, however, the issue in my mind was the mail time if sent regular mail and the reputation the Canadian postal service has in general. At this point, the seller stated they mailed the information back to *** on the 8th. Comparing apples to apples if the seller was in the US and sent the documents back regular mail on the 8th, *** would have most likely already closed by now.

I'm curious: what reputation does the Canadian postal service have? Speaking of one who uses it quite regularly, I would say that cross-country parcel service can sometimes be quite slow (though no worse than what I've experienced with domestic USPS standard parcel), but letter mail is usually pretty fast, and very reliable. Mail within the same urban centre is often delivered next-day.

The 8th was last Monday. Depending on time of day, something dropped in a post box on Monday might or might not have actually made it out on Monday. Yesterday was a holiday in the US, yes? So you're talking 4 business days, at best. Even within the US, I'd guess that you would be very, very optimistic to assume that documents sent by regular mail would be both received and processed by the closing company in that time frame.

Again, the extra couple of days that might be attributable to your international seller just isn't significant on the overall process here. If you'd chosen a seller in the US, you might have gotten someone who sat on the documents for a month. Or who had to get their ex-wife, who now lives across the country, to also sign the documents. Or maybe Disney might have taken an extra couple of days on ROFR, or the title company got busy and your contract is just not at the top of the pile. It's the just nature of the resale process.

I understand your impatience, truly. But as many on these boards have pointed out, the worst wait (for your membership number) is still to come. And can take weeks. My guess is that your contract will close a few days ahead of your 2/29 "close by" date, and it will have nothing to do with where your seller is located. That just seems to be the experience most people are having with the big closing companies. I hope that you are lucky and it closes sooner! In the meantime, sit back and remember to breathe.

 

[marisabuzz]

Comparing apples to apples if the seller was in the US and sent the documents back regular mail on the 8th, *** would have most likely already closed by now.

I've had no complaints with the Canadian mail system. Next day mail service within the same city, 3 days max within the country, and mail carriers are friendly. I've sent Christmas cards regular post to family in the US (during the busiest mailing season) and they've received it in 3 days. To assume that mail from Canada seems to take exponentially longer is very presumptuous.

I sent my closing docs via email and wire transferred the balance within a couple days. Sellers (American) sent their documents roughly the same time (week before Christmas). We still closed exactly on the day our closing documents said we would close on.

Your assumption that you would be closed by now if you were dealing with American sellers really has no basis.

 

[hayesdvc]

I'm curious: what reputation does the Canadian postal service have? Speaking of one who uses it quite regularly, I would say that cross-country parcel service can sometimes be quite slow (though no worse than what I've experienced with domestic USPS standard parcel), but letter mail is usually pretty fast, and very reliable. Mail within the same urban centre is often delivered next-day.

The 8th was last Monday. Depending on time of day, something dropped in a post box on Monday might or might not have actually made it out on Monday. Yesterday was a holiday in the US, yes? So you're talking 4 business days, at best. Even within the US, I'd guess that you would be very, very optimistic to assume that documents sent by regular mail would be both received and processed by the closing company in that time frame.

Again, the extra couple of days that might be attributable to your international seller just isn't significant on the overall process here. If you'd chosen a seller in the US, you might have gotten someone who sat on the documents for a month. Or who had to get their ex-wife, who now lives across the country, to also sign the documents. Or maybe Disney might have taken an extra couple of days on ROFR, or the title company got busy and your contract is just not at the top of the pile. It's the just nature of the resale process.

I understand your impatience, truly. But as many on these boards have pointed out, the worst wait (for your membership number) is still to come. And can take weeks. My guess is that your contract will close a few days ahead of your 2/29 "close by" date, and it will have nothing to do with where your seller is located. That just seems to be the experience most people are having with the big closing companies. I hope that you are lucky and it closes sooner! In the meantime, sit back and remember to breathe.

My comments about the Canadian postal service comes from customers who I deal with located in Canada.
As you described, the main reason at this point I want the closing to happen sooner than later is the "endless" wait I am expecting once the deed is recorded and sent to Disney.

 

[hayesdvc]

I've had no complaints with the Canadian mail system. Next day mail service within the same city, 3 days max within the country, and mail carriers are friendly. I've sent Christmas cards regular post to family in the US (during the busiest mailing season) and they've received it in 3 days. To assume that mail from Canada seems to take exponentially longer is very presumptuous.

I sent my closing docs via email and wire transferred the balance within a couple days. Sellers (American) sent their documents roughly the same time (week before Christmas). We still closed exactly on the day our closing documents said we would close on.

Your assumption that you would be closed by now if you were dealing with American sellers really has no basis.

Thanks for your comments, however, why would you compare as you the buyer emailing from Canada stating that you closed at the same time even though the seller (located in the US) mailed their documents about the same time. I totally agree with you. IMHO, if my seller was in the US I could now be agonizing the wait on the membership information from Disney; might not be, I guess it's splitting hairs

 

[marisabuzz]

Thanks for your comments, however, why would you compare as you the buyer emailing from Canada stating that you closed at the same time even though the seller (located in the US) mailed their documents. I totally agree with you. IMHO, if my seller was in the US I could now be agonizing the wait on the membership information from Disney.

I'm comparing to prove a point that wherever the buyer or sellers are from, you will close when you close. We sent our documents and money in right away and we still closed 3+ weeks later.

 

[marisabuzz]

IMHO, if my seller was in the US I could now be agonizing the wait on the membership information from Disney.

No you wouldn't. Also, I've been trying to be nice, but please stop blaming the Canadian sellers. Just stop.

 

[hayesdvc]

I apologize for anything that I said that you took offence. My intention was to give my opinion and get opinions back on my specific situation. This is why this board is gold to me. I want no hard feelings in something that has given me so much pleasure (and at this point I am not even a member).

 

[wn01aa]

I actually was emailed an activation code before I called to get the membership number (which made the "we can't find you in the system" line a bit difficult to believe). But the membership number is the important part. Once you have that they'll set you up with the rest.

How did Disney get your email address during the sale process in order to send the activation code?

 

[mab2012]

My comments about the Canadian postal service comes from customers who I deal with located in Canada.

I guess everyone has a different perspective. I think that objectively speaking, the US and Canadian postal services are relatively similar where delivery times are concerned. Where the US postal service "wins" is on cost, particularly for small parcels. That's a direct result of volume. In Canada we are used to paying higher prices for nearly everything on the basis of lower overall volume!

I think there just is some sensitivity right now around the recent "CANADIAN SELLER" business at The Timeshare Store. It's not that I feel that buyers don't have a right to know, but I think many potential future Canadian sellers are concerned that highlighting it in this way makes it look like there is some sort of "black mark" against our contracts, and unnecessarily draws attention to something that really is not significant most of the time. There are probably many buyers out there who wouldn't care one iota about where the seller is located, except that once it is pointed out in this way, it makes them wonder if there's a reason they *should* care. It's like putting a flag on the listing that says "unless you really must have this particular contract, go bid on something else instead". That could impact us in a very material way, all for the sake of maybe a couple of extra days on a 4 month process.

I wasn't trying to stir up trouble; I only wanted to point out the reasons why having a "Canadian seller" really doesn't make much difference, both for your sake and for anyone else who might be reading.

As you described, the main reason at this point I want the closing to happen sooner than later is the "endless" wait I am expecting once the deed is recorded and sent to Disney.

Best wishes for a speedy closing!

 

[mab2012]

How did Disney get your email address during the sale process in order to send the activation code?

I wondered that myself. I might have thought that it was passed to them through the closing company, except that I gave them a different email address than the one that the activation code arrived on. My best guess is that they correlated the name and residential address on the contract with my MDE account. I hadn't heard of this happening to anyone else, which was one reason I mentioned it.

 

[hayesdvc]

How long after I see my deed at OCC should I do the " Disney Jive" and begin to call the accounting area for the membership number assigned in gold?

 

[hayesdvc]

I guess everyone has a different perspective. I think that objectively speaking, the US and Canadian postal services are relatively similar where delivery times are concerned. Where the US postal service "wins" is on cost, particularly for small parcels. That's a direct result of volume. In Canada we are used to paying higher prices for nearly everything on the basis of lower overall volume!

I think there just is some sensitivity right now around the recent "CANADIAN SELLER" business at The Timeshare Store. It's not that I feel that buyers don't have a right to know, but I think many potential future Canadian sellers are concerned that highlighting it in this way makes it look like there is some sort of "black mark" against our contracts, and unnecessarily draws attention to something that really is not significant most of the time. There are probably many buyers out there who wouldn't care one iota about where the seller is located, except that once it is pointed out in this way, it makes them wonder if there's a reason they *should* care. It's like putting a flag on the listing that says "unless you really must have this particular contract, go bid on something else instead". That could impact us in a very material way, all for the sake of maybe a couple of extra days on a 4 month process.

I wasn't trying to stir up trouble; I only wanted to point out the reasons why having a "Canadian seller" really doesn't make much difference, both for your sake and for anyone else who might be reading.



Best wishes for a speedy closing!

Thanks for the comments.

Any idea behind the must for estoppel information from Disney being received by the title company prior to sending the closing documents? I asked this because the title company still has to get an official final payoff from Disney after receiving the closing documents back from the seller and buyer.

 

[DisBuckMan]

Deed recorded yesterday at OCC office. Now, just the wait for my points to show up in my account. My timeline...

12/19 OFFER ACCEPTED
12/21 CONTRACT SIGNED AND RETURNED WITH DEPOSIT
12/28 SELLER CONTRACT RECEIVED BY BROKER
1/20 PASSED ROFR
2/4 RECEIVED ESTOPPEL
2/5 RECEIVED CLOSING DOCUMENTS
2/6 RETURNED CLOSING DOCUMENTS AND PAYMENT
2/12 NOTIFIED OF CONTRACT BEING CLOSED
2/17 DEED RECORDED AT OCC

Closing date listed on contract was 3/7, so everything seems to have moved along nicely. 60 days from offer accepted to deed recorded.

 

[hayesdvc]

Deed recorded yesterday at OCC office. Now, just the wait for my points to show up in my account. My timeline...

12/19 OFFER ACCEPTED
12/21 CONTRACT SIGNED AND RETURNED WITH DEPOSIT
12/28 SELLER CONTRACT RECEIVED BY BROKER
1/20 PASSED ROFR
2/4 RECEIVED ESTOPPEL
2/5 RECEIVED CLOSING DOCUMENTS
2/6 RETURNED CLOSING DOCUMENTS AND PAYMENT
2/12 NOTIFIED OF CONTRACT BEING CLOSED
2/17 DEED RECORDED AT OCC

Closing date listed on contract was 3/7, so everything seems to have moved along nicely. 60 days from offer accepted to deed recorded.

Congratulations......I am jealous.......hopefully mine with show up at OCC sometime next week.

 

[mab2012]

Any idea behind the must for estoppel information from Disney being received by the title company prior to sending the closing documents?

I don't even know if this is true. I've seen it posted here, so clearly that's what the title companies are telling their customers, but that doesn't make it a requirement. I've also seen the odd post suggesting that estoppel is NOT always obtained before the closing documents are sent out, generally from people using smaller closing companies or lawyers. So my guess is that it's just what the closing companies choose to do, because they don't want to have to deal with the occasional situation where there is an issue with the estoppel that somehow creates a need for closing documents to be re-issued.

I also don't think that estoppel is the major source of delay in receiving closing documents. That wouldn't explain why DisBuckMan (for example) had his estopple and closing documents 2 weeks from passing ROFR, but my closing documents took 7+ weeks. More likely is that the major closing companies (*** and TT&M, in particular) are taking contracts, giving themselves nice long "close by" dates, and then sitting on them for several weeks while they process other contracts. Nice for them that they have enough business to get away with that. If I'd been better educated when I started this process, I would have requested a different closing company. Live and learn.

 

[DisBuckMan]

I also don't think that estoppel is the major source of delay in receiving closing documents. That wouldn't explain why DisBuckMan (for example) had his estopple and closing documents 2 weeks from passing ROFR, but my closing documents took 7+ weeks. More likely is that the major closing companies (*** and TT&M, in particular) are taking contracts, giving themselves nice long "close by" dates, and then sitting on them for several weeks while they process other contracts. Nice for them that they have enough business to get away with that. If I'd been better educated when I started this process, I would have requested a different closing company. Live and learn.

I'm not sure there's a rhyme or reason at all to it. Our closing company on this one was ***, and we received our closing docs less than two weeks after ROFR. On our first contract, we had a different closing company (Duncan), and it took 5 weeks after ROFR for our closing documents to arrive.

 

[hayesdvc]

I'm not sure there's a rhyme or reason at all to it. Our closing company on this one was ***, and we received our closing docs less than two weeks after ROFR. On our first contract, we had a different closing company (Duncan), and it took 5 weeks after ROFR for our closing documents to arrive.

You can see by my signature how long I waited between passing ROFR and closing documents. I am using ***, also. I guess it is the luck of the draw.

 

[hayesdvc]

You can see by my signature how long I waited between passing ROFR and closing documents. I am using ***, also. I guess it is the luck of the draw.

I have been told this morning that title company has received final payoff from Disney (took less than a day; see my estoppel wait time below) now only waiting on FIRTPA agent to send her final document.