Best Strategy for a trip in 2022? Lower Your Expectations

[BK2014]

I don’t know what you’re talking about with “getting value out of an on site stay.” I was offering my opinion that going on a vacation to WDW and not going to the parks has never made any sense to me. (Of course, I never understood mid-day breaks until I did…or scheduling non-park days until I did. So maybe I just need another decade.)

I misunderstood your post. When you referenced the pool and the drink being overpriced I thought you were saying that you thought that the resort prices made it a waste of money to go to the resorts and not go to the parks. It seems that instead you were simply saying that doing so was just not something interested you.

 

[kathy884]

The onsite advantages now are the 1/2 hour early admission that offsite visitors don't have now. I found that I really missed not having the rope drop experience with short lines. Also, for the paid for lightening lanes, onsite visitors can try for these at 7 a.m. while offsite can't till park opening. Last week at Epcot for example, when we tried for a paid lightening lane for the new Ratatouille ride for example these were sold out. That means those in our party who wanted to ride this had to wait in a stand by line for about an hour and a half, and those of us who did not want to wait that long did not experience this attraction.

Also, (and maybe this is just me getting older or the fact that I work from home full time and don't do as much driving as I used to do in general), but I on this last trip found driving around the resort areas in Orlando to be much less pleasant than in the past. The change in traffic lights from our timeshare resort and many of the other resorts to get to the parks did not have lights for left turns or right turns (lights are not being operated) and required a right turn, an immediate move to the left about three lanes, and then a u turn which required during most times other drivers to kindly let me in with the heavy traffic (all times it seemed except for early morning and late night). As much as I absolutely loved our resort, the great value, and the amenities, I found the driving to be quite unpleasant. Onsite and at Disney Springs you have regular shuttles to the park and don't have to drive for the Disney park experience. Sure offsite you can do ubers too, but I'm not going to do an uber with a party of six if I have a car. There just seemed to be more inpatient wild drivers than I remember in the past. I did not love driving in Orlando this trip and in some past trips, I thought driving around was super convenient and a "piece of cake".

And those staying deluxe, of course, have some evening extra magic hours (very nice advantage), but then those staying at Disney deluxe resorts are paying a lot and should IMHO have some special treatment.

As a budget traveler who loves staying at the offsite timeshare resorts (great value for the dollar in Orlando), I'm not going to be switching over and staying onsite. But the items above are advantages of staying onsite that would have been really nice to have last week (busy spring break week). With a few advantages at the parks for skipping lines and with the driving getting more miserable than ever in the resort areas in Orlando, even though I'm not going to be staying onsite, I think a lot of people will continue to opt for the onsite Disney lodging. It's actually based on my driving experience last week is more tempting than ever.

It's a pay to play world. And with the current popularity of the parks and Disney policies, we are all paying more and playing less.

Despite all of this, I was still enchanted by the Disney parks, think they offer a unique fun day, and imagine that I will be back (although I don't have any plans to return in 2023). We vacation other places, not just Disney and find we need to lower our expectations everywhere (more people in the world who travel, meaning greater crowds almost anywhere that is worth going).

 

[pixiedust2u]

I think you're conflating knowledge of the system vs strategy. It was before COVID which seems like another era, but I did recall that you had to use 3 FP's before getting more. What wasn't clear to me was whether @PrincessWithABlaster 's strategy was for the initial 3 FP's (via modification day-of) or 4th+. Your suggestion about booking 3 dummy FP's morning-of in order to get access to the day-of pool is clever, but counterintuitive and is a strategy rather than system knowledge. It's not in the FP+ FAQ summary posts but I do see the below points that I think are relevant:

The first 12 posts are organized to help readers find answers to FAQs as quickly and as easily as possible. They are updated regularly and reflect current FastPass+ policy, attraction selections, and suggested priorities. It is not necessary to read the entire thread for it to be useful for most readers.

Only 4th FPs (and beyond) are not subject to tiering limitations. Scheduling less than 3 FPs for a day is not a shortcut to getting additional Group 1 FPs in the same park faster.

Success at getting additional FPs depends primarily on two factors: the size of the group and how often one is willing to “refresh” the available FP list for an attraction.

I’m more specifically responding to your experience that you could “never” get Fastpasses under the FP+ as an offsite guest, which you’ve noted several times.

I was providing an example of how, if you understood the system you could then implement a strategy to effectively use it whether you were an on-site guest or offsite guest.

 

[cjlong88]

We vacation other places, not just Disney and find we need to lower our expectations everywhere (more people in the world who travel, meaning greater crowds almost anywhere that is worth going).

I completely agree with you. Just came back from a 9-day trip to Italy with my students. Definitely not the same experience I had back in 2018. Disney isn’t the only place that has drastically changed.

I think there are a few places in the world where the impact is minimal. But those places that are more frequently visited have experienced some of the greatest changes since the start of the pandemic.

I have had three trips to WDW since November, and I actually enjoyed each of those trips. I certainly don’t believe I have low expectations for anything in my life. But I do think I understood that this was going to be way different based on the state of things. And just knowing and accepting that before traveling allowed me to have a good experience each time. Maybe it’s changing expectations rather than lowering them because we know we aren’t living in the same world as 2019. I know others feel like the WDW they knew is gone. And in some ways it is. But the WDW that existed in 1971 or 1994 or 2008 hasn’t been here for awhile either. It will always change. And unfortunately, external circumstances caused it to change in more significant ways, from both WDW responding to the public health crisis in a way that allowed them to operate after being closed for so long and WDW using the situation as an opportunity to make some strategic, purposeful changes that have helped them recover quickly and become more profitable.

 

[Jrb1979]

I completely agree with you. Just came back from a 9-day trip to Italy with my students. Definitely not the same experience I had back in 2018. Disney isn’t the only place that has drastically changed.

I think there are a few places in the world where the impact is minimal. But those places that are more frequently visited have experienced some of the greatest changes since the start of the pandemic.

I have had three trips to WDW since November, and I actually enjoyed each of those trips. I certainly don’t believe I have low expectations for anything in my life. But I do think I understood that this was going to be way different based on the state of things. And just knowing and accepting that before traveling allowed me to have a good experience each time. Maybe it’s changing expectations rather than lowering them because we know we aren’t living in the same world as 2019. I know others feel like the WDW they knew is gone. And in some ways it is. But the WDW that existed in 1971 or 1994 or 2008 hasn’t been here for awhile either. It will always change. And unfortunately, external circumstances caused it to change in more significant ways, from both WDW responding to the public health crisis in a way that allowed them to operate after being closed for so long and WDW using the situation as an opportunity to make some strategic, purposeful changes that have helped them recover quickly and become more profitable.

It's the bolded as why many are not happy with the New Disney. IMO those changes have been in the works well before Covid. These are things they have always wanted to do. The parks are no longer the focus as that has switched to Disney+ and the metaverse

 

[cjlong88]

It's the bolded as why many are not happy with the New Disney. IMO those changes have been in the works well before Covid. These are things they have always wanted to do. The parks are no longer the focus as that has switched to Disney+ and the metaverse

I agree. And I believe they are consciously trying to deter people from attending with price increases while continuing to increase their profits. They don’t need as many people with what they are charging now.

 

[Jrb1979]

I agree. And I believe they are consciously trying to deter people from attending with price increases while continuing to increase their profits. They don’t need as many people with what they are charging now.

IMO as said in another thread the last 2 years may have killed the golden goose. Disney is not going away or going bankrupt but the days of them being the top dog may be over. I know many hardcores are starting to opt for other places and parks.

 

[cjlong88]

IMO as said in another thread the last 2 years may have killed the golden goose. Disney is not going away or going bankrupt but the days of them being the top dog may be over. I know many hardcores are starting to opt for other places and parks.

Maybe. Maybe not. No one can really know that until we see what the next few years bring. Knowing a bunch of people who aren’t going to WDW anymore isn’t a predictor that they are losing. It’s purely anecdotal—we need data. I’m not one to say how exactly things will shake out one way or another because no one can absolutely know until we see all the cards laid out before us, which may take a long time.

The psychology of pricing and consumption of goods is vastly complex. Disney’s not stupid. They didn’t get where they are by sheer luck. They are in a period of experimentation — shifting ideologies and changing well established systems to see what happens. Unfortunately, that means guests are going to be experiencing a WDW that’s potentially unfamiliar to them in some of the ways we have grown to love. And unfamiliar doesn’t necessarily mean worse. But it can feel worse because people like things that are familiar and tend to avoid things that are different or new. And those things feel like even bigger changes to us because we are the Disney experts. My sister has never been to WDW and wouldn’t even know what it was compared to what it is today. She sees things through a different lens than you or me. And through this whole process of “lowering our expectations” we have to understand that there is not one standard expectation that fits us all. We all value different things, and that’s why this entire thing is so complex.

People are having a great time at WDW. People are having a terrible time. But no one is having the exact same expectations or experience. WDW is making record profits. That might change. But what if it doesn’t? Again, I won’t spend time speculating what will or won’t happen. All I’m trying to do is figure out if this new WDW is worth it for me. And honestly, right now it still is. Everyone’s answer will be their own to make. And no one’s answer is wrong.

If they do start to hurt, they will know how to draw us back in. And they know their target audience (which I believe has maybe changed, too) and will make sure the deal is just right.

 

[Westerner]

I’m more specifically responding to your experience that you could “never” get Fastpasses under the FP+ as an offsite guest, which you’ve noted several times.

I was providing an example of how, if you understood the system you could then implement a strategy to effectively use it whether you were an on-site guest or offsite guest.

It would have been clearer had you quoted the post you were actually responding to. In any case, my point stands - your suggestion was a counterintuitive strategy not posted in the FP+ FAQ, and lack of knowledge of it does not equate to "not understanding the FP+ system".

 

[Love Tink]

It would have been clearer had you quoted the post you were actually responding to. In any case, my point stands - your suggestion was a counterintuitive strategy not posted in the FP+ FAQ, and lack of knowledge of it does not equate to "not understanding the FP+ system".

Hmmm. On a thread about Genie you said:

If you refuse to research information readily available on DIS, then that's on you.

 

[pixiedust2u]

It would have been clearer had you quoted the post you were actually responding to. In any case, my point stands - your suggestion was a counterintuitive strategy not posted in the FP+ FAQ, and lack of knowledge of it does not equate to "not understanding the FP+ system".

You tend to make these statements and then when people suggest otherwise you get defensive and nit pick their responses.

I get that you say you couldn’t get any FP+ of “use” to you. But what many of us are saying is that most of us who knew how to use the FP system could get just about ANY ride at any park using the refresh method. I assume you don’t just go to the park and ride the two top tier rides… so again what many of us are saying is that it was valuable to save sat 10 or 20 minutes in 5-6 rides over the course of the day and also not being able to cross cross the park.

I’m responding to the general tone, and content of your posts overall which have portrayed the experience that as an offsite guest FP+ had minimal if no value (whether your specifically referring to strategy OR the system itself) , and I’m providing examples (as have other posters) of how that simply was not the case for other users.

 

[jlundeen]

Since FP+ is gone (may it RIP... sniff sniff), perhaps we should get back to discussing G+ and ILL$ and expectations, rather than continuing to argue about something that no longer exists....

 

[BridgetBordeaux]

Since FP+ is gone (may it RIP... sniff sniff), perhaps we should get back to discussing G+ and ILL$ and expectations, rather than continuing to argue about something that no longer exists....

Yes......the past is only relevant since that is what we have to compare the present situation to.

My first post, which contained some very specific usage patterns by my family, clearly rang true to many that read it.

For those whose use profile does not match mine, I understand that they may not fully agree with post 1.

However......there are many folks that try to maximize efficient use of time in the parks.

Look.......I have also gone to WDW and stayed at a resort for several days without going to the parks.......but on the days we went to the parks we wanted gobs and gobs of activities to enjoy.

I think it is fair no say that most people got 3 FP's booked and scored a 4th on each daily visit.

It is very telling that Disney has advised us that we might get 2-3 if the first one is for an early morning seat in a ride.

Disney's public website statement speaks volumes!

 

[lovethattink]

This thread has changed from a tip/strategy thread to a vent thread. I’m moving it to the community subforum. And I want to add a friendly reminder to follow DIS posting guidelines.

 

[DCLMP]

Since FP+ is gone (may it RIP... sniff sniff), perhaps we should get back to discussing G+ and ILL$ and expectations, rather than continuing to argue about something that no longer exists....

This isn't the genie plus thread.

 

[Westerner]

You didn’t have to. If you were able to book a morning FP for a ride you wanted that worked. Your could either book evening times and modify them as others mentioned or just go in with 1 or 2 and then refresh day of to fill in your 3. The 3 only really mattered at tiered parks. A lot of people would book the easiest Tier 1 they could get at Epcot, fill in with throw away Tier 2s that they just tapped out and didn’t ride.

How long you spend refreshing depended on your party size, the ride you wanted, the crowd level, and some behind the screen voodoo with Disneys database set up. Some people could routinely and reliably get basically anything they wanted within minutes - FOP, 7DMT, whatever. I did not have that kind of success until people started realizing there were drop times for the parks other than MK. That vastly reduced the amount of time I spent refreshing. I could get FOP with one minute of effort multiple times a day. It paid to hang out on the sites that posted those drop times.

That ~$27 per person per day is $135 for our family. That could pay for quick service food for our entire family for the day.

I would say our average wait time with FP+ was 10 to 15 minutes with the rare occasional 30 if something was messed up. It wasn’t that rare to walk right on with FP+ also.

Keep in mind, your scenario is worst case from a number of aspects. (Offsite, super short park hours, park with few good FP options, a few days notice).

With FP+ we would have been guaranteed FOP as well because we booked at the 60 day mark. That is left out of the conversation because that wasn’t the point, but it was our reality.

Looking at the two scenarios, given the cost now and everything else, I would still take the free FP+ option even being offsite in your scenario.

Dan

Thank you both for your detailed insights regarding the AK scenario that I had a negative FP+ experience with back in the day. You've convinced me that my not getting any useful LL's was more a function of deciding to go 3 days in advance, rather than staying offsite. I trust you that it would have been possible to get usable FP's day-of, but I'm not sure I would have wanted to spend the necessary time on the phone.

In terms of takeaways on G+/$ILL vs FP+, IMO G+/$ILL is better for folks who are going last minute. I feel the G+ stacking strategy requires less time investment and and more predictable outcomes, albeit at additional cost.

 

[DisneyFive]

Thank you both for your detailed insights regarding the AK scenario that I had a negative FP+ experience with back in the day. You've convinced me that my not getting any useful LL's was more a function of deciding to go 3 days in advance, rather than staying offsite. I trust you that it would have been possible to get usable FP's day-of, but I'm not sure I would have wanted to spend the necessary time on the phone.

In terms of takeaways on G+/$ILL vs FP+, IMO G+/$ILL is better for folks who are going last minute. I feel the G+ stacking strategy requires less time investment and and more predictable outcomes, albeit at additional cost.

I see where you are coming from, and I'm sure you represent a subset of the Disney community, just like our family does from a different experience/perspective. I'm not going to try to convince anyone of anything here but, these are our thoughts....

I won't have a good apples to apples comparison until late July, and I'll try to remember to reply to this thread, or start my own regarding our experience. FP+ was an amazing system for us so it's going to be awfully tough for G+ to live up to anything close to that. I get that it was partly due to staying onsite, but it is what it is. Nothing is changing with how we've stayed at Disney (we're still onsite the whole time) but now we:

In advance:

• No longer have prebooked rides of any kind. So now our schedule, every day, is more at the mercy and gamble of what G+ times we might find.

Day of:

• We're forced to get up before 7am, on vacation every freaking day, to get usefulness out of G+ (even Disney now admits this)
• We can't choose from a few time slots for the rides (that was much more flexible than it is now)
• Can't choose from ALL the rides including FOP, Remy, ROTR, 7DMT, etc...
• Other top attractions are gone by early afternoon.

Pay up sucker:
...and now we get the benefit of spending $640 for our upcoming 8 night vacation for G+, and if we wanted to $ILL just one ride per day that would add another $400 or so. Tacking on over $1000 or more to our typical stay is brutal! We are paying a LOT more, FOR LESS!!! That's the real punch in the gut.

Wishing you all the best possible vacation in the current Disney environment

Dan

 

[alabamadaisy]

The title of this post resonated with me because it was the EXACT wording "lower your expectations" that I used after returning home from a February trip and anticipating an upcoming June one. We were in the parks Feb. 10 and 12. We decided to purchase Genie+ after being in the parks about two hours and we saw the lines -- unbelievable to us as we were expecting the reservation system to offer some control regarding crowds. On day one we did not ride ONE ride using Genie+. We were waiting in line at 7 Dwarfs (and it was longer than the app had indicated), when the window for our first Genie+ ride came . . . and went. We tried a couple of more times throughout the day, but it just never worked with our schedule. On the second day we were able to use it twice plus one additional ILL attraction. Disney made plenty of extra money off us. No reason for them to change anything as long as it's profitable.

My DH said never again, but I reminded him we already had June booked as a grandchild's first trip. We will try it all again and see if we can make it work any better this time. The system just left a bad impression and disappointing feeling about Disney in general. The crowds and lines added to the frustration too. Much worse than I ever remembered in years past (pre-covid). After we came home, I went to look at attendance numbers to compare them to historic numbers, but I saw Disney isn't releasing those numbers right now-- which made me go hmmmmm?!

For our upcoming trip, my expectations are very low. That makes me a little sad, because we had such great memories when our kids were little. Still hoping this June one will somehow be better than anticipated. I mean a vacation anywhere is a huge blessing and privilege. I just want it to be a good memory and a good value for the time off work.

 

[Summer2018]

Pardon The Inconvenience
We strongly encourage you to check today’s Lightning Lane availability and other park details before purchasing Disney Genie+ service, as purchase of Disney Genie+ service is nonrefundable. We apologize for any inconvenience.

With this warning, it seems as though even Disney knows that Genie+ and Lightning Lane are not a surefire way to experience all your favorite rides and attractions. It is quite strange for a company to acknowledge the shortcomings of its own product like this.

While Disney promises a more efficient Park experience when using Disney Genie+ and Lightning Lane, the company has even backtracked on its description of these new systems, changing their official descriptions online. In the past, we have seen many examples of Guests stuck in incredibly long lines after paying $20 for special access. We also continue to see these Lightning Lane lines get backed up, making lots of Guests wonder if what they paid for was really worth it.
-According to Inside the Magic.com

So, basically, Disney knows that Genie+ and Lightning Lane stink. Wow.

 

[mom2rtk]

With this warning, it seems as though even Disney knows that Genie+ and Lightning Lane are not a surefire way to experience all your favorite rides and attractions. It is quite strange for a company to acknowledge the shortcomings of its own product like this.

While Disney promises a more efficient Park experience when using Disney Genie+ and Lightning Lane, the company has even backtracked on its description of these new systems, changing their official descriptions online. In the past, we have seen many examples of Guests stuck in incredibly long lines after paying $20 for special access. We also continue to see these Lightning Lane lines get backed up, making lots of Guests wonder if what they paid for was really worth it.
-According to Inside the Magic.com

So, basically, Disney knows that Genie+ and Lightning Lane stink. Wow.

They should be embarrassed. There's a reason Universal caps the Express Pass they sell. Disney just doesn't care and loves that some extra money might still roll in when things are sold out for the day.