Are there no honorable people left?

[CPanther95]

Honor isn't as profitable as it used to be. I think there are a lot less people willing to pay a premium for it.

 

[tigercat]

We had work done here. New cabinets in the 2 pc. bathroom as well as in the full bathroom upstairs. Bamboo flooring and ceramic tile downstairs as well as ceramic tile and laminate upstairs. Painting of the downstairs and the upstairs bathroom. We have a small semi so downstairs isn't that big. He had done work for a lot of other friends and seemed to be good.

They would show up at random times and stay for random times as well. They only did one coat of paint in all the rooms. The bamboo floor looks okay except it seems that the majority of the joints are at the same place. The ceramic tile is horrible. The grout started coming up almost right away. We had told them that the sub floor until the hall and kitchen needed doing and they said that they had fixed it. After they said that it was because people were walking too much in those areas. What?? It looks horrible now and as soon as we can save up the money we will have to replace all the tile. I really like it so not happy about that. Next time we will get one of the tile places around here to do it. We need to keep touching up the paint because it has peeled off in some places.

However, he did make the cabinets himself and they are really beautiful. The sinks are another thing though. We couldn't afford granite so we went with another product that he said was really good. It isn't but at least it isn't breaking apart.

I found out later that 2 people who had had him said that they also were not pleased. I wish they had said something before hand not after. Don't think I will be calling him back.

tigercat

 

[MrsCobraBubbles]

I have a question: are you also haggling with these people for the lowest price you can get? Nickel-diming them over every little thing or criticizing work that isn't finished? I was married for 15 years to a man that works in the building trades and I can tell you, if you haggle them down to a ridiculously low price you should not also expect good work to happen on a projected timeline.

You have to understand that if you make it clear to them that money is your priority, then it will be theirs too. If you are barely paying them enough to cover costs then you will have to accept that they will fit you in whenever they have time between more lucrative jobs. That's just how it is. As others have said, don't pay in full in advance. A modest deposit for materials is acceptable, if the guy tells you he needs you to pay the full cost of materials before he starts the job then he's probably a bad risk, call someone else.

The best way to find a good contractor/tradesperson is through word of mouth from trusted friends, then do your research, then ask for a quote and don't lowball the price (doing research on what friends and neighbors have paid for similar work will help you in that area). You really do get what you pay for because if there is a tight budget, as soon as the project goes over budget (and it will, they always do) you will be left with the mess, waiting for them to return to quickly slap it all back together so they can move on to a job that will give them some profit.

Also, if you are going with a big name brand company you are usually going to get unqualified, low-paid laborers, especially during the busy season or after a slew of advertising and coupons are put out. If you're picky about the quality of the finished project it's almost always better to go with the smaller guy because you're more likely to have that guy working on, or at least directly overseeing, your project. For example, if you need plumbing work done, calling any company with the word "Rooter" featured prominently in the name is a crapshoot.

I think you're coming at this from the wrong viewpoint. These are not service people that you hire and then expect them to serve you. They are people with a skill or ability that you don't have, otherwise you wouldn't have to hire them, right? THEY hold all the power in your working relationship. If you piss them off and they don't want to work for you anymore, what are you going to do? Leave that mess in your yard for months while you take them to small claims court? Even winning a judgement in small claims doesn't guarantee that you will see your money again, nor will your project be finished. And they will tell all their buddies what a pain in the butt you were so good luck finding someone else to finish for you.

You need to stroke their ego, compliment them, and basically bend over backwards to show them how much you appreciate that they CHOSE your project. You know that saying, "you get more flies with honey than with vinegar", that totally applies here. When they show up to look at the project and write up a quote, keep your dogs locked up and offer them coffee/a bottle of water/some goodies from the local bakery. If you want them to wear booties in your house, make that clear in a nice way without complaining about the last guy who scuffed your floors. The first day they start work, buy a box of doughnuts and a jug of iced tea and bring it out to them. Bring them cold bottles of water/gatorade every once in a while, don't stand there and scowl at the work they are doing, or critique their daily progress on a long project unless something is dreadfully wrong. It's sort of like the idea of tipping especially well at the beginning of your vacation, same principle. Never underestimate the power of skillful schmoozing because that's how you're going to get these people to come back and finish your projects. And when you finally do find a good contractor or tradesperson, keep them happy.

 

[MrsCobraBubbles]

Heck, I can't even get people to give me an estimate! I'm trying to get a bathroom redone and some other work around the house, have had four contractors come out and look and none of them have even called back or emailed me an estimate. I have no idea why. I guess everyone already has so much work they don't need more?

Summer is a bad time to try to get indoor work done, unless you live somewhere that contractors are able to work outside year round. I live in PA and summer is for outside work, when building season is over (usually after Christmas) then you can start calling around for quotes and they will actually want to do the work.

 

[jam217]

"I have a question: are you also haggling with these people for the lowest price you can get? Nickel-diming them over every little thing or criticizing work that isn't finished? I was married for 15 years to a man that works in the building trades and I can tell you, if you haggle them down to a ridiculously low price you should not also expect good work to happen on a projected timeline.

I have a question: are you also haggling with these people for the lowest price you can get? Nickel-diming them over every little thing or criticizing work that isn't finished? I was married for 15 years to a man that works in the building trades and I can tell you, if you haggle them down to a ridiculously low price you should not also expect good work to happen on a projected timeline.

You have to understand that if you make it clear to them that money is your priority, then it will be theirs too. If you are barely paying them enough to cover costs then you will have to accept that they will fit you in whenever they have time between more lucrative jobs. That's just how it is. As others have said, don't pay in full in advance. A modest deposit for materials is acceptable, if the guy tells you he needs you to pay the full cost of materials before he starts the job then he's probably a bad risk, call someone else.

The best way to find a good contractor/tradesperson is through word of mouth from trusted friends, then do your research, then ask for a quote and don't lowball the price (doing research on what friends and neighbors have paid for similar work will help you in that area). You really do get what you pay for because if there is a tight budget, as soon as the project goes over budget (and it will, they always do) you will be left with the mess, waiting for them to return to quickly slap it all back together so they can move on to a job that will give them some profit.

Also, if you are going with a big name brand company you are usually going to get unqualified, low-paid laborers, especially during the busy season or after a slew of advertising and coupons are put out. If you're picky about the quality of the finished project it's almost always better to go with the smaller guy because you're more likely to have that guy working on, or at least directly overseeing, your project. For example, if you need plumbing work done, calling any company with the word "Rooter" featured prominently in the name is a crapshoot.

I think you're coming at this from the wrong viewpoint. These are not service people that you hire and then expect them to serve you. They are people with a skill or ability that you don't have, otherwise you wouldn't have to hire them, right? THEY hold all the power in your working relationship. If you piss them off and they don't want to work for you anymore, what are you going to do? Leave that mess in your yard for months while you take them to small claims court? Even winning a judgement in small claims doesn't guarantee that you will see your money again, nor will your project be finished. And they will tell all their buddies what a pain in the butt you were so good luck finding someone else to finish for you.

You need to stroke their ego, compliment them, and basically bend over backwards to show them how much you appreciate that they CHOSE your project. You know that saying, "you get more flies with honey than with vinegar", that totally applies here. When they show up to look at the project and write up a quote, keep your dogs locked up and offer them coffee/a bottle of water/some goodies from the local bakery. If you want them to wear booties in your house, make that clear in a nice way without complaining about the last guy who scuffed your floors. The first day they start work, buy a box of doughnuts and a jug of iced tea and bring it out to them. Bring them cold bottles of water/gatorade every once in a while, don't stand there and scowl at the work they are doing, or critique their daily progress on a long project unless something is dreadfully wrong. It's sort of like the idea of tipping especially well at the beginning of your vacation, same principle. Never underestimate the power of skillful schmoozing because that's how you're going to get these people to come back and finish your projects. And when you finally do find a good contractor or tradesperson, keep them happy.

You need to stroke their ego, compliment them, and basically bend over backwards to show them how much you appreciate that they CHOSE your project. You know that saying, "you get more flies with honey than with vinegar", that totally applies here. When they show up to look at the project and write up a quote, keep your dogs locked up and offer them coffee/a bottle of water/some goodies from the local bakery. If you want them to wear booties in your house, make that clear in a nice way without complaining about the last guy who scuffed your floors. The first day they start work, buy a box of doughnuts and a jug of iced tea and bring it out to them. Bring them cold bottles of water/gatorade every once in a while, don't stand there and scowl at the work they are doing, or critique their daily progress on a long project unless something is dreadfully wrong. It's sort of like the idea of tipping especially well at the beginning of your vacation, same principle. Never underestimate the power of skillful schmoozing because that's how you're going to get these people to come back and finish your projects. And when you finally do find a good contractor or tradesperson, keep them happy.[/QUOTE]

 

[LisaR]

I'm trying to get patio pavers installed. I called EIGHT people on Tuesday morning. I knew they wouldn't all call back so I figured I might as well go big. So far three have called back.

The first one said he wouldn't be able to start the job until mid August. I said that was perfectly fine but I wanted the estimate done in the next two weeks so I can decide who to go with and what it will cost me. Nope! He just can't fit me in.

Another guy sent me a text right after I left a phone message saying he was on a job and would call me in a bit when he had a break. That night he sent me a text and said he didn't forget about me. He got done late and would call me in the morning. The next morning he sent a me a text that said he was going to call me soon. I haven't heard from him since yesterday morning.

The third guy called me back and set up an appointment for yesterday. He called yesterday and switched it to Saturday. He just called an hour ago and switched it to tomorrow.

I think I've decided my backyard looks great just the way it is!

 

[jam217]

"I have a question: are you also haggling with these people for the lowest price you can get? Nickel-diming them over every little thing or criticizing work that isn't finished? I was married for 15 years to a man that works in the building trades and I can tell you, if you haggle them down to a ridiculously low price you should not also expect good work to happen on a projected timeline.

You need to stroke their ego, compliment them, and basically bend over backwards to show them how much you appreciate that they CHOSE your project. You know that saying, "you get more flies with honey than with vinegar", that totally applies here. When they show up to look at the project and write up a quote, keep your dogs locked up and offer them coffee/a bottle of water/some goodies from the local bakery. If you want them to wear booties in your house, make that clear in a nice way without complaining about the last guy who scuffed your floors. The first day they start work, buy a box of doughnuts and a jug of iced tea and bring it out to them. Bring them cold bottles of water/gatorade every once in a while, don't stand there and scowl at the work they are doing, or critique their daily progress on a long project unless something is dreadfully wrong. It's sort of like the idea of tipping especially well at the beginning of your vacation, same principle. Never underestimate the power of skillful schmoozing because that's how you're going to get these people to come back and finish your projects. And when you finally do find a good contractor or tradesperson, keep them happy.

[/QUOTE]


In my case, I did not haggle one bit with the contractor. I am paying close to $30,000 for a bathroom renovation and signed a multi-page contract that spelled out everything very clearly. Also, on my last project with the same contractor, I was told that I was a "dream customer'' and that because of all the delays, it had the potential to turn into a nightmare from the customer. But I was patient despite the kitchen project taking several months longer the contracted date. I now believe that I was too nice and that they are now taking advantage of me.

 

[MariMama]

You need to stroke their ego, compliment them, and basically bend over backwards to show them how much you appreciate that they CHOSE your project. You know that saying, "you get more flies with honey than with vinegar", that totally applies here. When they show up to look at the project and write up a quote, keep your dogs locked up and offer them coffee/a bottle of water/some goodies from the local bakery. If you want them to wear booties in your house, make that clear in a nice way without complaining about the last guy who scuffed your floors. The first day they start work, buy a box of doughnuts and a jug of iced tea and bring it out to them. Bring them cold bottles of water/gatorade every once in a while, don't stand there and scowl at the work they are doing, or critique their daily progress on a long project unless something is dreadfully wrong. It's sort of like the idea of tipping especially well at the beginning of your vacation, same principle. Never underestimate the power of skillful schmoozing because that's how you're going to get these people to come back and finish your projects. And when you finally do find a good contractor or tradesperson, keep them happy.

Bull honky. They are getting paid for their service and I expect them to do it in a timely manner and do it correctly. If it isn't, yes, their work will be criticized and they will need to fix it properly if they want to be paid.

As far as the rest of it, I'm not their mother and I don't stroke anyone's ego. If they need their ego stroked, they came to the wrong house. Feeding them? LOL I don't think so.

 

[Christine]

I have a question: are you also haggling with these people for the lowest price you can get? Nickel-diming them over every little thing or criticizing work that isn't finished? I was married for 15 years to a man that works in the building trades and I can tell you, if you haggle them down to a ridiculously low price you should not also expect good work to happen on a projected timeline.

You have to understand that if you make it clear to them that money is your priority, then it will be theirs too. If you are barely paying them enough to cover costs then you will have to accept that they will fit you in whenever they have time between more lucrative jobs. That's just how it is. As others have said, don't pay in full in advance. A modest deposit for materials is acceptable, if the guy tells you he needs you to pay the full cost of materials before he starts the job then he's probably a bad risk, call someone else.

The best way to find a good contractor/tradesperson is through word of mouth from trusted friends, then do your research, then ask for a quote and don't lowball the price (doing research on what friends and neighbors have paid for similar work will help you in that area). You really do get what you pay for because if there is a tight budget, as soon as the project goes over budget (and it will, they always do) you will be left with the mess, waiting for them to return to quickly slap it all back together so they can move on to a job that will give them some profit.

Also, if you are going with a big name brand company you are usually going to get unqualified, low-paid laborers, especially during the busy season or after a slew of advertising and coupons are put out. If you're picky about the quality of the finished project it's almost always better to go with the smaller guy because you're more likely to have that guy working on, or at least directly overseeing, your project. For example, if you need plumbing work done, calling any company with the word "Rooter" featured prominently in the name is a crapshoot.

I think you're coming at this from the wrong viewpoint. These are not service people that you hire and then expect them to serve you. They are people with a skill or ability that you don't have, otherwise you wouldn't have to hire them, right? THEY hold all the power in your working relationship. If you piss them off and they don't want to work for you anymore, what are you going to do? Leave that mess in your yard for months while you take them to small claims court? Even winning a judgement in small claims doesn't guarantee that you will see your money again, nor will your project be finished. And they will tell all their buddies what a pain in the butt you were so good luck finding someone else to finish for you.

You need to stroke their ego, compliment them, and basically bend over backwards to show them how much you appreciate that they CHOSE your project. You know that saying, "you get more flies with honey than with vinegar", that totally applies here. When they show up to look at the project and write up a quote, keep your dogs locked up and offer them coffee/a bottle of water/some goodies from the local bakery. If you want them to wear booties in your house, make that clear in a nice way without complaining about the last guy who scuffed your floors. The first day they start work, buy a box of doughnuts and a jug of iced tea and bring it out to them. Bring them cold bottles of water/gatorade every once in a while, don't stand there and scowl at the work they are doing, or critique their daily progress on a long project unless something is dreadfully wrong. It's sort of like the idea of tipping especially well at the beginning of your vacation, same principle. Never underestimate the power of skillful schmoozing because that's how you're going to get these people to come back and finish your projects. And when you finally do find a good contractor or tradesperson, keep them happy.

I dunno, I think that's kind of overboard. The OP said upthread that she's not being cheap and didn't even go with the lowest priced person.

My husband is an electrical contractor and he certainly doesn't expect people to stroke his ego and bend over backwards. He's approached about a job, he gives his price, and if he accepts the contract, he honors the contract. Shows up on time, does the job expected, and so on. The worst of his job is people asking for extra stuff outside the contract that they want for "free."

 

[MariMama]

I'm trying to get patio pavers installed. I called EIGHT people on Tuesday morning. I knew they wouldn't all call back so I figured I might as well go big. So far three have called back.

The first one said he wouldn't be able to start the job until mid August. I said that was perfectly fine but I wanted the estimate done in the next two weeks so I can decide who to go with and what it will cost me. Nope! He just can't fit me in.

Another guy sent me a text right after I left a phone message saying he was on a job and would call me in a bit when he had a break. That night he sent me a text and said he didn't forget about me. He got done late and would call me in the morning. The next morning he sent a me a text that said he was going to call me soon. I haven't heard from him since yesterday morning.

The third guy called me back and set up an appointment for yesterday. He called yesterday and switched it to Saturday. He just called an hour ago and switched it to tomorrow.

I'm think I've decided my backyard looks great just the way it is!

I'm almost at the same point. Maybe we really DON'T need a cottage on the lake.

 

[MrsCobraBubbles]

Bull honky. They are getting paid for their service and I expect them to do it in a timely manner and do it correctly. If it isn't, yes, their work will be criticized and they will need to fix it properly if they want to be paid.

As far as the rest of it, I'm not their mother and I don't stroke anyone's ego. If they need their ego stroked, they came to the wrong house. Feeding them? LOL I don't think so.

That's your decision to make. I've been privy to a lot of conversations between tradesmen in the last 15 years, they gossip like nobody's business and it's a small community. Schmoozing gets you a lot, you should try it sometime. Another example: leave the garbage men a small cooler of drinks and they'll throw just about anything into the back of that truck. My husband used to do that to get them to take building materials when he was renovating our old farm house. Bribery makes the world go 'round. And some respect and human kindness will make service people want to serve you. It's just my advice, you can choose to take it or leave it.

 

[MrsCobraBubbles]

I dunno, I think that's kind of overboard. The OP said upthread that she's not being cheap and didn't even go with the lowest priced person.

My husband is an electrical contractor and he certainly doesn't expect people to stroke his ego and bend over backwards. He's approached about a job, he gives his price, and if he accepts the contract, he honors the contract. Shows up on time, does the job expected, and so on. The worst of his job is people asking for extra stuff outside the contract that they want for "free."

Your husband is a good man. Mine was too, at least where his work was concerned, but you can't really expect that all tradesmen will be equally motivated by their principles. It is business, after all.

 

[CPanther95]

Bribery makes the world go 'round. And some respect and human kindness will make service people want to serve you.

But if you have to choose between the respect & kindness or the bribery - go with the bribery.

 

[MrsCobraBubbles]

But if you have to choose between the respect & kindness or the bribery - go with the bribery.

Meh, po-TA-to, po-TAH-to. Sometimes, no matter what you choose to label it, they are one and the same.

 

[kimblebee]

I'm trying to get patio pavers installed. I called EIGHT people on Tuesday morning. I knew they wouldn't all call back so I figured I might as well go big. So far three have called back.

The first one said he wouldn't be able to start the job until mid August. I said that was perfectly fine but I wanted the estimate done in the next two weeks so I can decide who to go with and what it will cost me. Nope! He just can't fit me in.

Another guy sent me a text right after I left a phone message saying he was on a job and would call me in a bit when he had a break. That night he sent me a text and said he didn't forget about me. He got done late and would call me in the morning. The next morning he sent a me a text that said he was going to call me soon. I haven't heard from him since yesterday morning.

The third guy called me back and set up an appointment for yesterday. He called yesterday and switched it to Saturday. He just called an hour ago and switched it to tomorrow.

I think I've decided my backyard looks great just the way it is!

Contractors who are super busy in the summer? That can't be right...

 

[low-key]

There was one honorable man but we killed him

 

[MickeySP]

Believe me, I know. DH has been pretty much handling the landscaping and I don't think we've paid "in full". I think we've paid 90% for 60%-70%. of the job We paid half at the start. When DH told me he paid another big chunk, I flipped my lid and asked him what in the world he was thinking. Now he doesn't want me to mention it as he knows he messed up by paying another big chunk. I was ADAMANT in the beginning that we watch carefully when we pay them. Apparently, that didn't stick with him.

I learned very early on = 1/3 up front. I pay up to 50 % when they are 50 % done, nothing further til completion. Also doesn't hurt my neighbor is my contractor.

 

[Shanti]

Believe me, I know. DH has been pretty much handling the landscaping and I don't think we've paid "in full". I think we've paid 90% for 60%-70%. of the job We paid half at the start. When DH told me he paid another big chunk, I flipped my lid and asked him what in the world he was thinking. Now he doesn't want me to mention it as he knows he messed up by paying another big chunk. I was ADAMANT in the beginning that we watch carefully when we pay them. Apparently, that didn't stick with him.

Your husband probably won't ever repeat his mistake. It unfortunately seems that the contractors did the math and decided that 90% of the pay for 60% of the work was good enough for them.

 

[LisaR]

Contractors who are super busy in the summer? That can't be right...

So they should totally ignore phone calls because they are busy? They can't be bothered giving an estimate now to do a job next month when they aren't as busy? Maybe I should have bribed them and made them a four course dinner to get them to give me an estimate.
For the record, this is FL. Contractors work year round.

 

[RedAngie]

You need to stroke their ego, compliment them, and basically bend over backwards to show them how much you appreciate that they CHOSE your project. You know that saying, "you get more flies with honey than with vinegar", that totally applies here. When they show up to look at the project and write up a quote, keep your dogs locked up and offer them coffee/a bottle of water/some goodies from the local bakery. If you want them to wear booties in your house, make that clear in a nice way without complaining about the last guy who scuffed your floors. The first day they start work, buy a box of doughnuts and a jug of iced tea and bring it out to them. Bring them cold bottles of water/gatorade every once in a while, don't stand there and scowl at the work they are doing, or critique their daily progress on a long project unless something is dreadfully wrong. It's sort of like the idea of tipping especially well at the beginning of your vacation, same principle. Never underestimate the power of skillful schmoozing because that's how you're going to get these people to come back and finish your projects. And when you finally do find a good contractor or tradesperson, keep them happy.

Thanks for providing evidence of what most people already knew. Lots of contractors are dishonorable and almost extortionists.