Alec Baldwin shoots/kills cinematographer and injured director after firing a "prop gun".

[Sinder]

It seems that there's a lot of "it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy" element to this story. Certainly not just here.....there's absolute glee on twitter from some over the fact that it was Baldwin that fired the gun. What's sad in those cases is that the woman who was killed seems like an afterthought.

In the end, I don't think that Baldwin will be criminally charged. Someone else...the armorer....the AD....maybe. It was the AD who yelled "cold gun!" before he handed it to Baldwin. That seems to be the way movie sets work, as all work environments do. There are people responsible for certain tasks, even in more dangerous working environments. Baldwin was told he had a "cold gun", which I believe means a gun that had absolutely nothing in the chambers. He didn't have a "cold gun", and it ended it disaster. But I will tell you that I was on a jury, the minute I hear testimony that the actor was handed a gun and then "cold gun" was uttered....I'm not going to find him guilty.

And if I was on the jury I would find him guilty for not checking it himself.
I don’t think he intentionally killed her, but she is dead due in part to his negligence.
I’ll ask again if this was some guy at his backyard BBQ and someone handed him a gun and said it was unloaded and he pointed it at a guest and pulled the trigger and killed them would you give him a not guilty or would you hold him partially responsible?

The problem is that actors and those in the industry see the guns as “props”. And if it were a rubber gun I’d agree but in this instance they were using real guns. That means it’s not a prop, it’s a firearm. It should be treated the same as any other gun, which means the user has a responsibility to make sure it is used in a safe manner. Mr. Baldwin was the user, no matter who told him what about that real gun, the buck stops with him.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I have more empathy for Baldwin after reading the above, but I can't imagine the need to have live rounds in guns on a movie set. smh.

And then there's the thing about NEVER pointing a gun at someone. Anyone handling a gun should have basic knowledge of gun safety. No excuse. IMO

 

[Karin1984]

Whether it's right or wrong, movie sets aren't real life, and actors on set aren't people. They are basically props as well. They have people taking care of everything for them. People tell them what to do, say, wear, and everything else. They execute it. Actors rely on people to tell, particularly during stunts, whether things are safe or how it should be done. That's how a movie set works, most of the time.

Was it terribly stupid to point a gun at someone: Yes.
Should movie sets have instructions for how to handle a gun, and have the actor need to do a course: Yes.
Will that happen?: Very unlikely, this is the US.

 

[Carol_]

And then there's the thing about NEVER pointing a gun at someone. Anyone handling a gun should have basic knowledge of gun safety. No excuse. IMO

There was a report somewhere that the gun was not pointed at the deceased. The investigation should reveal what happened.

 

[Ms.Minnie]

After reading through this whole thread I too feel that actors should be trained in basic gun safety if they are going to be in any kind of programming that involves firearms. They should be certified and have that certification updated on a regular basis.

So many actors say they are anti gun but just look at what the film industry puts out, so much gun violence it’s sickening. Liam Neeson comes to mind with his anti-gun rant but just look at some of the movies he has made like Taken and Taken 2, such violent movies but he says he’s anti-gun. Such a hypocrite like most of Hollywood.

 

[AndreaA]

So many actors say they are anti gun but just look at what the film industry puts out, so much gun violence it’s sickening. Liam Neeson comes to mind with his anti-gun rant but just look at some of the movies he has made like Taken and Taken 2, such violent movies but he says he’s anti-gun. Such a hypocrite like most of Hollywood.

This is certainly very true. There are also many in Hollywood who are vehemently anti-gun unless they’re talking about themselves. Then you find out they have a concealed carry permit, plenty of armed security, etc., etc., etc.. Good for thee but not for me.

 

[JimMIA]

One point to keep in mind is that none of us (as far as I know) have any idea what was actually happening on the set when this happened.

We are all assuming that they were actually filming a scene that required Baldwin to fire the gun, but there are several other possibilities:

• Were they actually filming and the gun was fired intentionally (thinking it was harmless)?
• Were they rehearsing, and the gun was fired accidentally?
• Was Baldwin just walking around the set with the gun getting ready for a filming sequence?
• Was Baldwin showing the gun to the two people shot and it went off accidentally?
• Also, what kind of gun was it? Some guns are much more sensitive to trigger pressure than others.

There are surely other possibilities, but the specifics of what happened would probably change some minds on several aspects of the case.

 

[bcla]

It seems that there's a lot of "it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy" element to this story. Certainly not just here.....there's absolute glee on twitter from some over the fact that it was Baldwin that fired the gun. What's sad in those cases is that the woman who was killed seems like an afterthought.

In the end, I don't think that Baldwin will be criminally charged. Someone else...the armorer....the AD....maybe. It was the AD who yelled "cold gun!" before he handed it to Baldwin. That seems to be the way movie sets work, as all work environments do. There are people responsible for certain tasks, even in more dangerous working environments. Baldwin was told he had a "cold gun", which I believe means a gun that had absolutely nothing in the chambers. He didn't have a "cold gun", and it ended it disaster. But I will tell you that I was on a jury, the minute I hear testimony that the actor was handed a gun and then "cold gun" was uttered....I'm not going to find him guilty.

A cold gun is supposed to be something that won't fire and go boom. But it may be loaded with dummy rounds in the chamber of a revolver because that would show up on camera. The case of Brandon Lee being killed was complicated. They prepared dummy rounds from real ammunition, and the bullet got lodged in the barrel. But I don't think that was quite a cold gun as it still had the primer, which has a small explosive force. They recovered a full or portion of a bullet, and it's not clear exactly what was in the barrel, but the "squib load" theory is the best one they have, where the blank had enough force to shoot out the barrel. But that was inexcusable. The weapons crew on set should have run through a checklist every time they prepped the gun. Not making sure that the barrel has no obstruction (even debris) when blanks are inserted is inexcusable.

Also - there are newer stories that mention who the armorer was. She is apparently pretty young but wasn't a member of the crew that walked off the set in protest. So at the very least it wasn't that which resulted in a real ammunition being used by mistake. And from my understanding there is no way that real ammunition should be anywhere near a movie set. They're supposed to be paranoid about it.

I've been interested in this since it came out, and apparently the improper live fire of bullets has been a mistake done in war reenactments. Amateurs are relied upon to check themselves, and sometimes they've failed to use blanks and instead fired live ammunition.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wwii-reenactment-too-real-for-man-shot-in-stomach/

 

[TLSnell1981]

Whether it's right or wrong, movie sets aren't real life, and actors on set aren't people. They are basically props as well. They have people taking care of everything for them. People tell them what to do, say, wear, and everything else. They execute it. Actors rely on people to tell, particularly during stunts, whether things are safe or how it should be done. That's how a movie set works, most of the time.

Was it terribly stupid to point a gun at someone: Yes.
Should movie sets have instructions for how to handle a gun, and have the actor needs to do a course: Yes.
Will that happen?: Very unlikely, this is the US.

The actors are real people. They are still responsible for their actions.

Baldwin isn't just an actor on this film but also a producer. There were multiple safely issues with firearms on the set. Many complaints regarding corners being cut. It's being reported the crew had walked out in protest before the fatal shooting . He's going to responsible in some form IMO

 

[dvcgirl67]

This is certainly very true. There are also many in Hollywood who are vehemently anti-gun unless they’re talking about themselves. Then you find out they have a concealed carry permit, plenty of armed security, etc., etc., etc.. Good for thee but not for me.

Yes, some of them are armed....and have to hire security that are armed.....because of the 35% of Americans who legally own guns, and the many other millions who own them illegally. We have 393 million guns in this country, which adds up to about 120 guns per gun owner....on average. So some only have one, or a few....others have hundreds. And so even a very small percentage of those people are unhinged...that adds up to a risk for anyone in the public eye. Celebrities are just trying to protect themselves in those instance. I'm sure most of them wish that they didn't have to do that.

 

[BroadwayHermione5]

There are definitely a lot of questions. As I mentioned earlier, all the unions and local law enforcement agencies are going to have to do thorough investigations. SAG has their own set of rules (which I remember being enforced when John Bernecker sadly lost his life doing a stunt on The Walking Dead. Actor Austin Amelio as a witness fully cooperated with every investigation. It is why Dwight was written off the main show and onto Fear the Walking Dead-that was what was apparently part of the deal. Even though he was only a witness). I will be intrigued to see what comes of this. Once again my thoughts are with Halyna’s family and I hope Joel is healing.

 

[bcla]

There was a report somewhere that the gun was not pointed at the deceased. The investigation should reveal what happened.

Bullets deflect when they hit objects. Could have hit a piece of equipment that the gun was pointed at and deflected. Heck - I read about a guy who hit himself at an indoor shooting range when he badly missed his target, hit the metal target holder, and the bullet ricocheted right back at himself.

 

[kdonnel]

If I am handed a firearm and told it is unloaded, pull the trigger and kill someone, I should go to jail.

Hollywood should not operate with a different set of rules.

It would have taken 5 seconds or less to open the cylinder and verify that the gun was truly "cold".

Not following firearm safety rules is why Halyna Hutchins is dead.

There was reckless disregard for his responsibility to possess a weapon on his person, regardless of what he thought or was told.

 

[bcla]

One point to keep in mind is that none of us (as far as I know) have any idea what was actually happening on the set when this happened.

We are all assuming that they were actually filming a scene that required Baldwin to fire the gun, but there are several other possibilities:

• Were they actually filming and the gun was fired intentionally (thinking it was harmless)?
• Were they rehearsing, and the gun was fired accidentally?
• Was Baldwin just walking around the set with the gun getting ready for a filming sequence?
• Was Baldwin showing the gun to the two people shot and it went off accidentally?
• Also, what kind of gun was it? Some guns are much more sensitive to trigger pressure than others.

There are surely other possibilities, but the specifics of what happened would probably change some minds on several aspects of the case.

Reports are that they were rehearsing a scene and that the director and cinematographer were huddled together composing a shot for a different scene while an assistant director was directing the rehearsal. But apparently it was pulled out of a holster. So if it was set in 1880s Kansas and coming out of a holster, it would most likely be a single-action revolver.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I still don't understand why real guns need to be used in movies at all. If prop departments are capable of making everything from sci-fi spaceships to alien worlds look "real" they can certainly make a completely fake gun look real.

 

[Dead2009]

And now we're getting this

‘Rust’ crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting
https://www.latimes.com/entertainme.../alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set
Apparently this happened before the accident. This is on the prop department 100%.

 

[Dead2009]

If I am handed a firearm and told it is unloaded, pull the trigger and kill someone, I should go to jail.

So if someone tells you that gun is unloaded, makes it clear to you that the gun is unloaded....and the accident still happens, you should go to jail? That's a horrendous take if I've ever seen one. Good god, I know this guy wasnt the best person in Hollywood but demanding he go to jail is absurd.

 

[bcla]

And now we're getting this

‘Rust’ crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting
https://www.latimes.com/entertainme.../alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set

Apparently this happened before the accident. This is on the prop department 100%.

Not really. They had the same armorer throughout the production. She didn't walk off the set. Also - the weapon fired was a single-action Colt, so likely either a Colt Army or Colt Navy.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...armorer-24-charge-guns-Alec-Baldwin-film.html​

The gun that fired the fatal shot was a vintage-style Colt revolver, DailyMail.com has exclusively learned.​

​

After the shooting, the armorer took possession of the gun and a spent casing, which were turned over to police, along with other prop guns and ammunition used on the set.​

​

Baldwin also changed out of the Western costume he was wearing, which was stained with blood, and turned it over to police.​

​

The warrant does not reveal the model or caliber of the prop gun that fired the fatal bullet, but the film is set in the Old West of the 1880s and DailyMail.com has learned it was a Colt.​

 

[TLSnell1981]

So if someone tells you that gun is unloaded, makes it clear to you that the gun is unloaded....and the accident still happens, you should go to jail? That's a horrendous take if I've ever seen one. Good god, I know this guy wasnt the best person in Hollywood but demanding he go to jail is absurd.

Well, yes. Any time you wield a weapon your are responsible. We learned this at a very early age (in my family) ANY gun is potentially a deadly weapon. Safety protocols must always be followed and it only takes a minute to verify if it's loaded. If mean...finger off the trigger, never point at anyone or their direction just to name a couple of safety measures.

Whether or not one is incarcerated depends on the circumstances, charges, the prosecutor, judge and jury. There is also a moral responsibility. No matter what...Baldwin will have to live with this for the rest of his days.

 

[Dead2009]

Not really. They had the same armorer throughout the production. She didn't walk off the set. Also - the weapon fired was a single-action Colt, so likely either a Colt Army or Colt Navy.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...armorer-24-charge-guns-Alec-Baldwin-film.html​

The gun that fired the fatal shot was a vintage-style Colt revolver, DailyMail.com has exclusively learned.​

​

After the shooting, the armorer took possession of the gun and a spent casing, which were turned over to police, along with other prop guns and ammunition used on the set.​

​

Baldwin also changed out of the Western costume he was wearing, which was stained with blood, and turned it over to police.​

​

The warrant does not reveal the model or caliber of the prop gun that fired the fatal bullet, but the film is set in the Old West of the 1880s and DailyMail.com has learned it was a Colt.​

I mean....if the crew brought this up....im gonna take their word over discussion on a forum.