Excuse Me, “Legacy Fans”? We Might Just Be Disney’s Only Way Forward.

[peabody58]

DW and I "Legacy Fans and proud of it" are really looking forward to US Epic Universe opening.

At our age (65+), we don't plan on going to it, but will instead enjoy the hopefully lower crowds at WDW and Disney trying to entice it's 'Legacy Fans' back with AP's, discounts, and maybe some new attractions. Time will tell.

 

[Jrb1979]

DW and I "Legacy Fans and proud of it" are really looking forward to US Epic Universe opening.

At our age (65+), we don't plan on going to it, but will instead enjoy the hopefully lower crowds at WDW and Disney trying to entice it's 'Legacy Fans' back with AP's, discounts, and maybe some new attractions. Time will tell.

By then it will be too little too late.

 

[Beer Me]

I've seen hundreds of variations on this theme on the DIS over the years..."It's a business! It's about making money, not making people happy!" How exactly do you think businesses make money? They make it by recruiting people to their product, and then (much more so) by keeping people happy with their product and coming back.

If Marriott or Outback Steakhouse or Honda or your dermatologist decided to ignore customer dissatisfaction and only focus on customers who don't "complain," how long would they keep making money? These moves do not make perfect sense to me, and are, frankly, incomprehensible when viewed as a business strategy.

Interesting comment and the examples are funny to me. My last 5 cars have been Hondas (between me, wife and kids) but I’ve seen a significant decline in quality and I don’t feel “loyalty” anymore. I’m definitely shopping around for my next car.

As much as a behemoth as Disney is they can still falter. There will come a day when the parks are no more or a shell of what they are today. That’s not speculation - it will happen. Whether it’s 20 years from now, 50 years or more, nothing lasts forever. So who’s to say we aren’t witnessing the beginning of the end right now?

 

[raidermatt]

Interesting comment and the examples are funny to me. My last 5 cars have been Hondas (between me, wife and kids) but I’ve seen a significant decline in quality and I don’t feel “loyalty” anymore. I’m definitely shopping around for my next car.

As much as a behemoth as Disney is they can still falter. There will come a day when the parks are no more or a shell of what they are today. That’s not speculation - it will happen. Whether it’s 20 years from now, 50 years or more, nothing lasts forever. So who’s to say we aren’t witnessing the beginning of the end right now?

The only thing I would add is it is not a given Disney will fail at any point. If they do, it will be the result of their own decisions. Just as their success has been a result of their decisions.

 

[emonade8]

I think they’ll just change the experience based on whatever gets that generation invested. Gen Z and younger millennials value things differently and spend money differently.

A good example of this can be seen in the gaming industry. Companies don’t really release complete video games anymore- they release what are essentially vehicles for downloadable content via micro transactions and make absurd amounts of money. A “video game” called Star Citizen crowd-sourced like $350m over the past ten years and ***still is not an actual game***. Disney could pitch a really great attraction and have the whole thing paid for before they even broke ground on it.

Idk about anyone else but my Gen Z gamer kid absolutely hates micro transactions and it turns her off from buying certain games.

 

[emonade8]

What they should have done was keep The Great Movie Ride and build Mickey's Runaway RR as a new ride. The parks need more rides to take in the crowds. The whole point of Walt buying all that land was to have room to expand, yet they pack everyone into small lands like Galaxies Edge and Toy Story.

Exactly! The Animation building would have been a perfect place to put MMRR, since they really don't need Launch Bay after opening Galaxy's Edge.

 

[Anna131517]

I couldn't access the WSJ article since the link in the OP's article didn't work and even when I tried to search on the WSJ website, I couldn't access it since it was behind a paywall. However, I can glean enough of what it apparently covered from the way the article references it.

I think the big issue even for the 'money is no object' crowd is they have CHOICES of where to spend their vacation dollars. Disney isn't the only place to vacation. If the VALUE they perceive from Disney isn't worth it, they will find other places to vacation. We used to go to Disney every 4-5 years since the rides/shows/etc. really didn't change that often. When we last went in 2019 we were amazed at how crowded and expensive everything had become. Some of the older rides like 'It's a small world' or that 3D Muppet movie haven't changed in probably 20 years. Small World now seems amateurish and outdates with those plywood/glitter covered cutouts.

Disney seems to overly focus on glitzy new rides and has apparently forgotten about all of the existing rides that remained basically the same after all these years. However, the new rides seems to have been designed with insufficient capacity since that new Star Wars rides sells out for the entire day within 15 minutes of the park opening. Tron which is apparently a copy of the ride at one of their international locations will likely have the same issue since far more people go to MK, but isn't clear if their planning considered that. On some days even in the middle of the week, various parks were wall-to-wall people making even walking around a challenge. Narrow walkways in many parks create pinch points and are clearly insufficient for the current levels of crowds. We would estimate it takes roughly 2x as long to do the things we used to like to do since parks are just way too crowded for the available ride capacity. Neither FastPass nor Genie solves the over-crowded park issue.

In our view, prices have risen way out of line with other popular vacation destinations. We have ZERO plans to return anytime soon given the way the parks currently operate. If others start to notice this as well, it wouldn't surprise me to see a significant decline in attendance...............and Disney will likely be left wondering why. Treating their long-time fans in a condescending way is certainly NOT the way any company should operate. I think some of the top Disney people need more PR training in how to talk about their customer base. They certainly come off as tone-deaf in many of the recent public statements they are making.

This. Disney isn’t giving good value right now. We stayed at a Deluxe resort for 10 days this year and all I could think was there’s no way this is “Deluxe!” Anywhere other than Disney it would be a rather small average hotel room. Most of our dining experiences were also mediocre. Which would be fine if we weren’t paying so much! Having to use our phones all day was really irritating. Going to the park used to be more relaxing and enjoyable than it is right now. We will probably go back in a couple years but our next vacation will definitely be shorter and I plan to do more off property. I’d actually like to check out Disneyland Paris next.

 

[Smugpugmug]

This. Disney isn’t giving good value right now. We stayed at a Deluxe resort for 10 days this year and all I could think was there’s no way this is “Deluxe!” Anywhere other than Disney it would be a rather small average hotel room. Most of our dining experiences were also mediocre. Which would be fine if we weren’t paying so much! Having to use our phones all day was really irritating. Going to the park used to be more relaxing and enjoyable than it is right now. We will probably go back in a couple years but our next vacation will definitely be shorter and I plan to do more off property. I’d actually like to check out Disneyland Paris next.

If you want to go to a Disney resort that has good value, I would recommend checking out Tokyo Disneyland as well (when the restrictions for tourism loosen up anyway). Those parks are excellent and significantly better than WDW.

 

[Jwaire]

This. Disney isn’t giving good value right now. We stayed at a Deluxe resort for 10 days this year and all I could think was there’s no way this is “Deluxe!” Anywhere other than Disney it would be a rather small average hotel room. Most of our dining experiences were also mediocre. Which would be fine if we weren’t paying so much! Having to use our phones all day was really irritating. Going to the park used to be more relaxing and enjoyable than it is right now. We will probably go back in a couple years but our next vacation will definitely be shorter and I plan to do more off property. I’d actually like to check out Disneyland Paris next.

There hasn't been anything Deluxe about Disney hotels in quite a while. Some of them are beautifully themed, like Wilderness Lodge, Polynesian and Animal Kingdom Lodge, however you get much better accommodations (including actual comforters) and service (particularly housekeeping) at a cheaper price per night elsewhere.

We visited the Grand Floridian in December and I was just surprised at how rundown they were letting the outer buildings get. How hard is it to do siding maintenance or replace the hallway carpets?

It's kind of sad. I miss the 90's Disney level of hotel service.

 

[Jrb1979]

There hasn't been anything Deluxe about Disney hotels in quite a while. Some of them are beautifully themed, like Wilderness Lodge, Polynesian and Animal Kingdom Lodge, however you get much better accommodations (including actual comforters) and service (particularly housekeeping) at a cheaper price per night elsewhere.

We visited the Grand Floridian in December and I was just surprised at how rundown they were letting the outer buildings get. How hard is it to do siding maintenance or replace the hallway carpets?

It's kind of sad. I miss the 90's Disney level of hotel service.

I agree it's sad. Why bother keeping things up to date when people continue to go regardless? What I don't get is for the amount of complaints that have come up recently from Disney fans especially this board, you continue to go. I'm sorry but that's part of the problem. You hate the direction Disney is going but can't stay away.

 

[DisneyFive]

This. Disney isn’t giving good value right now. We stayed at a Deluxe resort for 10 days this year and all I could think was there’s no way this is “Deluxe!” Anywhere other than Disney it would be a rather small average hotel room. Most of our dining experiences were also mediocre. Which would be fine if we weren’t paying so much! Having to use our phones all day was really irritating. Going to the park used to be more relaxing and enjoyable than it is right now. We will probably go back in a couple years but our next vacation will definitely be shorter and I plan to do more off property. I’d actually like to check out Disneyland Paris next.

Out of curiosity, where did you stay? What kept it from feeling deluxe?

Dan

 

[georgina]

I agree it's sad. Why bother keeping things up to date when people continue to go regardless? What I don't get is for the amount of complaints that have come up recently from Disney fans especially this board, you continue to go. I'm sorry but that's part of the problem. You hate the direction Disney is going but can't stay away.

I agree with you on that. People who don't like it should stop going. The unhappy folks on this thread are a small population and don't represent a large sample of Disney park goers; not even a representative sample of 'legacy fans', IMO. I think most, like me, will just roll with the changes and still go.

 

[kbelle8995]

I used to Love Disney. It was so much happiness in one place. Now it's stressfull and it seems like Disney has it's hand in my pocket grubbing around for every penny and saying I haven't spent enough. I think the true way to express is drop my AP and go elsewhere. I picked Universal years ago after pricing a preferred AP in comparison to the after 4 Epcot. The attitude during the Pandemic with them not extending my AP Like I requested. 3 (8 Hours plus) Phone calls and one letter and the finally did it but it took months. While Disney calls them a drain on their bottom line, Universal is holding a two months long AP appreciation event.

Gee I wonder why the Universal AP is the one that I kept

 

[Pickles516]

Idk about anyone else but my Gen Z gamer kid absolutely hates micro transactions and it turns her off from buying certain games.

That’s great, and I am glad she’s discerning about such things, but the profits seem to suggest that she’s in the minority. Whether people like it or not, as long as the model is making a killing, they will continue to lose the model.

 

[raidermatt]

I agree it's sad. Why bother keeping things up to date when people continue to go regardless? What I don't get is for the amount of complaints that have come up recently from Disney fans especially this board, you continue to go. I'm sorry but that's part of the problem. You hate the direction Disney is going but can't stay away.

Complaints are the first step. Loyal customers rarely just stop patronizing a business on a dime. Just as it took years to build that loyalty, it can take years to tear it down. Once they stop going though, the complaints also stop and you won't see them on these boards either.

 

[clomahony]

I too am a "Legacy Disney fan" but as prices have risen and quality has dropped, I now go less often, sometimes stay offsite, and have switched to Universal as my kids became teenagers. I used to go once or twice a year but now only go once every 3 to 5 years and now with kids in college, I'm going to wait until they are done with college before I go back again. They face the risk of us finding other places we love to go that may be better value for money.

 

[Love Tink]

The only thing I would add is it is not a given Disney will fail at any point. If they do, it will be the result of their own decisions. Just as their success has been a result of their decisions.

I agree. For decades, Disney service was the gold standard. Their entire business model was built on putting on a perfect "show" and making people happy, rather than just maximizing immediate profit...which is how they built up such an enormous, loyal customer base and became so profitable.

People paid more to go to Disney because they knew it was worth it - everything was top notch (and if it wasn't, say the word and they'd make it right), and there were plenty of extras that made you feel like you were getting good value or something for free.

I'm a total Disney parks addict who visited DL for the first time when I was six months old. Now, I haven't been since 2019 and I don't have a trip on the horizon. (Although here I am haunting the Dis, LOL.) When I look at having to pay to ride individual rides (and get up at 7:00am to do it), reserve my park days in advance, and find a place to stay off-site for literally the first time it makes it easy to vote about the new direction with my pocketbook.

 

[lugnut33]

Complaints are the first step. Loyal customers rarely just stop patronizing a business on a dime. Just as it took years to build that loyalty, it can take years to tear it down. Once they stop going though, the complaints also stop and you won't see them on these boards either.

Great point. I wonder how traffic on these boards has fared over the last 10 years.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

Sounds like the term “legacy” is ambiguous. Disney apparently gives it a positive meaning in the context of CM recognition, but the Wall Street Journal article used it in a negative way to describe Disney long term fans.

 

[revdon64]

Disney has already lost this legacy fan and our vacation dollars. Eastern Tennessee thanks Chapek for our business.